Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 18:46:27 -0700 Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote: > On 6/17/21 4:59 PM, Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400 > > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng > >> wrote: ... > >> ... > >>> Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as > >>> the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency > >>> that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer > >>> under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie > >>> to Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that > >>> wasn't installed on the new one, and that is doing the > >>> automounting. > >> Historical note. > >> > >> And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was > >> almost identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it > >> differed primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. > >> This was the last Debian relese that had no problems running > >> without systemd. > > I run Debian Stretch with sysvinit without problems even though some > > systemd libraries and udev-systemd remained after converting to > > sysvinit. Even updates-upgrades don't result in systemd-init being > > reinstalled like with Buster. > > > > B > > I ran Debian from Bo through Stretch. I had no real problems > upgrading through the releases until I got to Buster. Then I hit a > wall. It MAY be possible to run a very minimal system (with no > chance of running X) and still avoid systemd. While I have been told > that this is the case, I have no personal evidence of this. > > That is what caused me to switch to Devuan. When testing Buster, I was able to run a terminal only system with sysvinit which survived update-upgrade; however, when I tried to install X, sysvinit was uninstalled and systemd init replaced it. I could replace with sysvinit, but whenever I did an update-upgrade systemd init would again be reinstalled. What caused it was a dependency. Some file (dbus. IIRC) that was an X dependency had a systemd library dependency which was present by the way; however, systemd init got installed, too. Never discovered why. And if I tried to "block" systemd init from installing, the upgrade would fail. Systemd had finally become too pervasive to deal with easily as I figured it eventually would be. Like you, I abandoned Debian and went to Devuan. B ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On 6/17/21 4:59 PM, Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: ... ... Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie to Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that wasn't installed on the new one, and that is doing the automounting. Historical note. And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was almost identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it differed primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. This was the last Debian relese that had no problems running without systemd. I run Debian Stretch with sysvinit without problems even though some systemd libraries and udev-systemd remained after converting to sysvinit. Even updates-upgrades don't result in systemd-init being reinstalled like with Buster. B I ran Debian from Bo through Stretch. I had no real problems upgrading through the releases until I got to Buster. Then I hit a wall. It MAY be possible to run a very minimal system (with no chance of running X) and still avoid systemd. While I have been told that this is the case, I have no personal evidence of this. That is what caused me to switch to Devuan. Marc ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng > wrote: ... > ... > > > > Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as > > the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency > > that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer > > under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie to > > Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that wasn't > > installed on the new one, and that is doing the automounting. > > Historical note. > > And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was almost > identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it differed > primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. This was the > last Debian relese that had no problems running without systemd. I run Debian Stretch with sysvinit without problems even though some systemd libraries and udev-systemd remained after converting to sysvinit. Even updates-upgrades don't result in systemd-init being reinstalled like with Buster. B ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:04:06 +0200 al3xu5 wrote: > Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:41:09 -0700 - Patrick Bartek > : > > > On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:59:24 +0200 > > al3xu5 wrote: > > > > > [...] > > > I have openbox+lxde & PCManFM: usb drives are automatically > > > mounted (by udisks2) and are shown and usable (open and umount) > > > thanks to PCManFM. > > > > > > I have also udiskie, which i nice, but not strictly necessary in > > > my case... Am I right? > > > > I have found that each desktop uses its own method of automounting. > > PCManFM may have the mounting code built-in. Or it may use udiskie. > > Check PCManFM's dependencies and see if udiskie is listed. > > No: PCManFM do not require udiskie. I think you are right saying it > should have the mounting code built-in. Or it uses some other method. As long as it works. :) B ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Fw: Testers for Chimaera alpha netinstall iso
Begin forwarded message: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 08:22:06 +1000 From: Ralph Ronnquist To: Devuan Maintainers Subject: Testers for Chimaera alpha netinstall iso The Chimaera alpha netinstall ISOs version dated 14-Jun-2021 or later now include "the final" versions of the forked udebs, and they need testing to confirm that it is ready for RC1 in the coming month. The URL path at files.devuan.org is devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/ but that's rather slow to download from, and you're better off using some of mirrors listed at https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan E.g https://sledjhamr.org/devuan-cd/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/devuan_chimaera_4.0.alpha-20210614_amd64_netinstall.iso Please report bugs via email sent to "submit" at bugs.devuan.org with the first 2 lines being the following: Package: devuan-installer Version: 4.0 But, please report against the source package concerned where you can isolate that. And, note that most packages come directly from Debian without forking, and that upstreamed reporting directly to Debian's bug tracking is then best (https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting). regards, Ralph. pgpfh5hO3RLUB.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210617000235.sunedmrx24ulc...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng > wrote: ... > ... > > > > Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as > > the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency > > that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer > > under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie to > > Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that wasn't > > installed on the new one, and that is doing the automounting. > > Historical note. > > And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was almost > identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it differed > primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. This was the > last Debian relese that had no problems running without systemd. ..say "no major problems running without systemd.", and I'll agree. ..my opinion remains we should have started from Debian Wheezy, where those first systemd bits were snuck in, but I wasn't around here when that major decision was made. I still had not seen Theodore T'so have problems with systemd, so I still believed my own problems with that, was me falling too far behind from work with http://groklaw.net/ for about 11 years. As you may see, there were hundreds of thousands of us doing Groklaw. It was addictive. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:41:09 -0700 - Patrick Bartek : > On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:59:24 +0200 > al3xu5 wrote: > > > [...] > > I have openbox+lxde & PCManFM: usb drives are automatically mounted > > (by udisks2) and are shown and usable (open and umount) thanks to > > PCManFM. > > > > I have also udiskie, which i nice, but not strictly necessary in my > > case... Am I right? > > I have found that each desktop uses its own method of automounting. > PCManFM may have the mounting code built-in. Or it may use udiskie. > Check PCManFM's dependencies and see if udiskie is listed. No: PCManFM do not require udiskie. I think you are right saying it should have the mounting code built-in. > Did you > install udiskie yourself? Yes: I installed udiskie "separately", when PCManFM was already installed. > If not, then some other app did and it's > probably needed. Looking at the PCManFM deps seems to confirm it has the mounting code built-in... $ apt-cache depends pcmanfm pcmanfm Depends: libatk1.0-0 Depends: libc6 Depends: libcairo2 Depends: libfm-gtk4 Depends: libfm4 Depends: libfontconfig1 Depends: libfreetype6 Depends: libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 Depends: libglib2.0-0 Depends: libgtk2.0-0 Depends: libpango-1.0-0 Depends: libpangocairo-1.0-0 Depends: libpangoft2-1.0-0 Depends: libx11-6 Depends: shared-mime-info > If it's not causing problems, leave it be. Indeed, I have both. Regards al3xu5 -- Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design restrictions! Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8 B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B pgp8gtqc4dwxj.pgp Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
