Re: [DNG] Microsoft: Really?
On 12/08/2021 03:49, Steve Litt wrote: > Check out this article: > > https://www.computerworld.com/article/3628169/windows-365-costs-how-much.html > > Windows 365... > > So let me get this straight: [...] > Of course the real effect of this is that Mocrosoft takes possession of > every single bit of your computing experience, making it extremely hard > for you to ever escape. Yup, all that and you still need some sort of computing device to connect to their cloud service. It's poor value and massively increases attack and risk surface. (I say "risk" since there are risks inherent in this that need not be part of an attack by unauthorised outsiders). But, despite all that, it's going to be massive. More and more people will want it for... "convenience" or something similar. Convenience wins, even when it's no really very convenient. As I see it there are only two USPs for a service like this: (1) It's accessible for anywhere you have Internet access and a computing device. (2) It is (I presume) backed up so you don't need to run your own backups... well, in theory. In practice that should not be relied upon but people definitely will give up doing their own backups due to systems like this. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Microsoft: Really?
Check out this article: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3628169/windows-365-costs-how-much.html Windows 365... So let me get this straight: For the privilege of enduring data caps on your own data, 2 GB RAM, 64 GB storage, and having your personal data on somebody else's server just waiting for a badguy to steal, you pay only $20/month. They have bigger plans that give more RAM, storage and CPUs, all the way up to $163/month for 8 virtual CPUs, 32 GB RAM, and 512 GB storage. So let me get this straight. My Ryzen 6 core with 64GB RAM and 12TB disk cost me roughly $2000.00. Divide that by 163 and you find that in 12.25 months of Windows 365, my computer is paid for. My last computer (2 core, 16GB RAM 8TB disk) lasted me productively for six years, and I expect something like that out of my Ryzen. Of course the real effect of this is that Mocrosoft takes possession of every single bit of your computing experience, making it extremely hard for you to ever escape. An article I wrote 20 years ago sounds like it was written for Windows 365: http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_editors_desk SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Fw: S6 Queries
This is a forward from the Supervision mailing list. The email is a single anecdotal comparison where the s6 init system booted up slightly faster than the systemd init system. What's special about this is that boot speed was the original selling point of systemd. You probably remember them saying something like "we start everything in parallel so slow services don't hold us up. According to the anecdote in the forwarded part of this email, systemd boot speed is nothing special, and in fact can be outdone by a much simpler init system. Since then they've gone on to say that "boot speed isn't our main benefit", but we all remember how the camel got his nose in the tent. Enjoy this forwarded email. SteveT == Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 16:35:56 +0530 From: Arjun D R To: Laurent Bercot Cc: supervis...@list.skarnet.org Subject: Re: S6 Queries Thanks Laurent for the detailed explanations. We did a bootup speed comparison between S6 and systemd. S6 is able to boot up slightly faster than systemd. Actual result is 4-4.5% faster but we were expecting something near to 20%. Ours is a bit complex setup with more than 140 services (includes a lot of long run services and a lot of dependencies). The main advantage in systemd is, it starts many critical processes very quickly since it has no dependency to logging services. We collect the logs from journalctl and store it in log files. Whereas in S6, the critical services start up is a bit delayed since it has to depend on logging services which in turn depends on other services (responsible for backing up the previous logs). Arjun On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 1:57 PM Laurent Bercot wrote: > >1. In systemd, the services are grouped as targets and each target > >depends on another target as well. They start as targets. [ex: > >Reached local-fs.target, Reached network.target, Reached UI > >target,...]. Is there any way in S6 to start the init system based > >on bundles? > > Yes, that is what bundles are for. In your stage 2 boot script > (typically /etc/s6-linux-init/current/scripts/rc.init), you should > invoke s6-rc as: >s6-rc change top > if "top" is the name of your default bundle, i.e. the bundle that > contains all the services you want to start at boot time. You can > basically convert the contents of your systemd targets directly into > contents of your s6-rc bundles; and you decide which one will be > brought up at boot time via the s6-rc invocation in your stage 2 > init script. > > > >2. Are there any ways to have loosely coupling dependencies? In > >systemd, > we > >have After=. After option will help the current service to start > >after the mentioned service (in after). And the current service will > >anyway start even if the mentioned service in After fails to start. > >Do we have such loosely coupled dependency facility in S6? > > Not at the moment, no. The next version of s6-rc will allow more > types of dependencies, with clearer semantics than the systemd ones > (After=, Requires= and Wants= are not orthogonal, which is > unintuitive and causes misuse); but it is still in early development. > > For now, s6-rc only provides one type of dependency, which is the > equivalent of Requires+After. I realize this is not flexible enough > for a lot of real use cases, which is one of the reasons why another > version is in development. :) > > > >3. Is there any tool available in S6 to measure the time taken by > >each service to start? We can manually measure it from the logs, but > >still looking for a tool which can provide accurate data. > > Honestly, if you use the -v2 option to your s6-rc invocation, as in >s6-rc -v2 change top > and you ask the catch-all logger to timestamp its lines (which should > be the default, but you can change the timestamp style via the -t > option to s6-linux-init-maker) > then the difference of timestamps between the lines: >s6-rc: info: service foo: starting > and >s6-rc: info: service foo successfully started > will give you a pretty accurate measurement of the time it took > service foo to start. These lines are written by s6-rc exactly as the > "starting" or "completed" event occurs, and they are timestamped by > s6-log immediately; the code path is the same for both events, so the > delays cancel out, and the only inaccuracy left is randomness due to > scheduling, which should not be statistically significant. > > At the moment, the s6-rc log is the easiest place to get this data > from. You could probably hack something with the "time" shell command > and s6-svwait, such as >s6-svwait -u /run/service/foo ; time s6-svwait -U /run/service/foo > which would give you the time it took for foo to become ready; but > I doubt it would be any more accurate than using the timestamps in the > s6-rc logs, and it's really not convenient to set up. > > > >4. Does the S6 init system provide better boot
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
Bernard Rosset via Dng said on Wed, 11 Aug 2021 10:40:31 +0200 >> [...] powering down the computer, letting it alone for 30 seconds >> [...] All this stuff costs you 10 to 15 minutes and rules out a lot. >> > >I would also suggest burning incense and jumping on one foot >counter-clockwise around the desk chair while making chicken sounds. The sarcasm isn't necessary. There are many weird, hard to find, state-based problems that disappear (for now) with a power cycle, because power-cycling brings you back to a known state And those state-based problems are exactly the ones that take forever to solve, because they're state based. If you absolutely must find the exact root cause, then you can't power cycle the computer, and instead must spend hours or days finding the root cause. But if you need to get back to work and can live without identifying the root cause, power cycling can either rule out these weird state based problems, or remove the symptom. Either way you're much better off. In the words of the late Phil Barnett, "While it would be nice to spend days figuring it out, I spent minutes and got past it." SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
<--snip--> When you really have no idea where to start (after looking through all logs, obviously)... Use 'ps' with the '-o cmd' option to find out *exactly* how the executable is being invoked. After killing everything, paste the command in a terminal window and execute it from there. Watch the text that scrolls by in that terminal window for anything erroneous! publickey - g4sra@protonmail.com - 0x42E94623.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
[...] powering down the computer, letting it alone for 30 seconds [...] All this stuff costs you 10 to 15 minutes and rules out a lot. I would also suggest burning incense and jumping on one foot counter-clockwise around the desk chair while making chicken sounds. The last time I did maintenance, I followed all that, and my problem ended up solved, hence I concluded these steps helped ruling out a lot of problems. Bernard (Beer) Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
