Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Sep 03, 2021 at 10:33:31AM +0200, al3xu5 wrote:
> Thu, 2 Sep 2021 21:50:10 +0200 - tito :
> 
> > On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:26:52 -0400
> > Steve Litt  wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > 
> > > A discussion on this list about a month ago spawned several documents
> > > about programming best practices, which I have been calling the "DNG
> > > Software Guide", even though it's absolutely not sponsored or even
> > > approved by Devuan.
> > > 
> > > With the latest version at
> > > http://troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/golug_software_guide_20210901.tgz
> > > , it's mature enough to get a license and Git distribution. This email
> > > is about the license.
> > > 
> > > If this were software, I'd probably vote for an extremely permissive
> > > license like the license of Expat (
> > > https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:Expat ). However, this is
> > > documentation, and I'm a little afraid that people with insufficient
> > > knowledge, or with political agendas, will water it down with bullshit.
> > > Only skilled people can modify source code, but any fool can modify
> > > documentation.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 

Isn't there already a creative commons license like this?

-- hendrik

> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > This are the Ten Commandments of software writing, have you ever heard
> > of somebody who wants to change the Ten Commandments?
> > 
> > Jokes aside there is no license whatsoever that will save your work
> > from idiots because there are so many and because they will in due time
> > find various and subtle ways to subvert and corrupt your work that you
> > cannot even imagine now.
> > 
> > The only helpful license is the one that forbids any modification,
> > or subordinately permits modifications only under your supervision
> > or under the supervision of a person appointed by you
> > (unless by error you appoint one of the aforementioned idiots. That
> > would be a pity!).
> 
> 
> Indeed. 
> 
> I think it can be treated as the reference documentation that accompanies
> a software. Which is modified along with the software releases.
> 
> Or like the publication of an article or a book or a technical text. Which
> the author can later readjust or modify by publishing a later revision.
> 
> And, in that specific case of the "DNG Software Guide", it is a text that
> contains personal views, knowledge and experiences of the author(s).
> 
> 
> So, we want to make the "DNG Software Guide" available (and any subsequent
> revisions modified by the same author(s)), also allowing its
> redistribution, but without the content being altered by others.
> 
> Basically, it seems to me that a verbatim license is needed.
> For example: 
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/html_node/Verbatim-Copying-License.html
> 
> 
> But nothing prevents us from using a different verbatim license, perhaps
> more articulated and specific ...
> 
> Maybe even a specially created verbatim license!
> 
> I suggest sometihing like: 
> 
> ~~~
> 
> DNG Verbatim Libre License
> Version 1.0, 1 September 2021
> 
> Copyright  2021  DNG
> 
> 
> This License document is released under the following terms and conditions
> of the DNG Verbatim Libre License itself.
> 
> TERMS AND CONDITIONS
> 
> Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work are permitted
> worldwide except for commercial purposes, without royalty, in any medium,
> ensuring content source full availability and exclusive use of completely
> open and patent-free formats when using any digital medium, provided this
> notice is preserved. Any strictly personal use is not subject to any
> limitation.
> 
> ADDENDUM
> 
> To apply this License to your works, insert a verbatim copy of the License 
> itself with it, and also add to it the following copyright and license
> notices:
> 
>   Copyright
>   Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work is permitted under
>   the terms and conditions of the DNG Verbatim Libre License License,
>   Version 1.0.
> 
> End of DNG Verbatim Libre License text.
> 
> ~~~
> 
> 
> If this is a (good) idea that can be pursued, I think it would be
> interesting and important to discuss it, establish the exact wording of
> the license (name, copyright holder, clauses etc.) ... and use it in the
> case in question (and in all other cases where a verbatim license is
> needed)! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > I understand that this form of licensing is not propitious to encourage
> > progress. 
> > 
> > OTOH often I ask myself: Progress? what progress?
> 
> Exactly: progress is not good in itself...
> 
> 
> > This are my pessimistic 2 cents.
> 
> Pessimistic? I would say realistic. 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> al3xu5
> 
> -- 
> Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
> restrictions!
> 
> 
> Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B



> 

Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[Bruce Perens via Dng]

Unfortunately there isn't really a good display solution for Linux
that does not make use of "direct rendering", in which user-mode code
talks directly to the display hardware - especially where 3D and video
are concerned. It is simply not possible to construct a reliable
system in which user-mode code has direct access to hardware. In any
well-designed system, this is exclusively a kernel function. Wayland
just takes the user-mode code even closer to the hardware.

Thanks

Bruce

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 10:22 AM Alexander Brüning via Dng
 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2021-09-02 at 14:16 -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > Greetings
> >
> > My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no
> > longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which
> > I now have on one system.)
> > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was
> > really not worth running.
> > Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly
> > capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups.
> >
> > What say you?
> >
> > TIA
>
> I keep looking into Wayland every 6 months or so. It isn't ready yet. There
> are a bunch of native, minimalist window managers for it and apparently the
> X compatibility layer works quite well, but all the slightly heavier WMs/DEs
> didn't convince me. Gnome is just a default no from me, KDE works but keeps
> crashing, XFCE isn't ported yet and the few small native DEs are still very
> early. The most usable WM seems to be Sway, but that is heavily inspired by
> i3 which I personally don't like.
>
> What I can say on the positive side though is that it works just fine on my
> Systemd-free Gentoo installation (haven't tried it on Devuan yet) and seems
> very smooth. On AMD at least. Nvidia has really, really dragged its feet on
> supporting the necessary extensions.
>
> Somewhat related: Pipewire is already much, much better than Pulseaudio and
> seems ready for daily use. If you have a need for something that provides
> functionality above pure ALSA give it a go.
> ___
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng



-- 
Bruce Perens K6BP
- Board Partner, OSS Capital LLC Venture Capital
- CEO, undisclosed startup
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[Tim Wallace via Dng]

 Yes, the AMD cards are no panacea.  I bought an AMD FirePro W4100 for $260 to 
drive multiple 4K monitors at the end of 2019, which was not usable as it 
turned out.  This was not a new card, so should have been supported.  After a 
ton of great help from the mailing list (tried many, many suggestions, 
including new kernel from backports) I exhausted my 30 day return and Amazon 
would not take my card back.  I bought a $210 GTX 1660, installed the nvidia 
driver, and it's worked like a charm.  I got a few random errors associated 
with the CUDA interface (which I don't use) so I deleted the package which 
deals with that.  I never get a crash.
(I'm not totally a newbie on the cards, FYI.  I booted Linux first in 1992, and 
have set up a million monitors since then!)

--Tim

On Friday, September 3, 2021, 7:20:15 AM EDT, o1bigtenor via Dng 
 wrote:  
 
 

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 2:09 AM Steve Litt  wrote:

spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700

>On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
>o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
>> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
>> was really not worth running.   
>
>I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
>tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
>yet though.

When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
the nVidia and put in a Radeon.


 I had this system built in early 2012. I've tried using both a Radeon 570 and 
a pair of 460s. Neither time was I able to get the system up. There is nothing 
I would like better than to get rid of nouveau - - - as soon as I plug the 5th 
monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28 hours. More commonly the 
uptime is under 12 hours and as it takes about 35  to 40 minutes to set 
everything back up that's just far too much time wasted. 
If anyone can help me figure out why the pair of 460s won't work (think the 570 
 needs a newer pci implementation but dunno) I would love to hear it 
(I have - - I think -- - - just thrown in the towel on trying to compile a 
kernel with some specific commands to enable nouveau debugging - - - another 5 
or 6 hours down the tubes. The 1050 Ti card is from 2016 and one would think 
that it would be fully supported some 4 years later - - - - but not so! - - - 
yes I'm grumpy - - - - far too much time poured down a hole with nothing to 
show for it - - - I use these systems - - - - they are not somewhere I want to 
live on!!)
Thanking one and all for their ideas and 
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[Alexander Brüning via Dng]

On Thu, 2021-09-02 at 14:16 -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no
> longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which
> I now have on one system.) 
> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was
> really not worth running. 
> Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly
> capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. 
> 
> What say you?
> 
> TIA

I keep looking into Wayland every 6 months or so. It isn't ready yet. There
are a bunch of native, minimalist window managers for it and apparently the
X compatibility layer works quite well, but all the slightly heavier WMs/DEs
didn't convince me. Gnome is just a default no from me, KDE works but keeps
crashing, XFCE isn't ported yet and the few small native DEs are still very
early. The most usable WM seems to be Sway, but that is heavily inspired by
i3 which I personally don't like.

What I can say on the positive side though is that it works just fine on my
Systemd-free Gentoo installation (haven't tried it on Devuan yet) and seems
very smooth. On AMD at least. Nvidia has really, really dragged its feet on
supporting the necessary extensions.

Somewhat related: Pipewire is already much, much better than Pulseaudio and
seems ready for daily use. If you have a need for something that provides
functionality above pure ALSA give it a go.


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[golinux]

Jaromil . . . please advise regarding the policy for using the Devuan 
trademark and DNG acronym on a license for a document compiled and 
written from comments on the DNG list by Steve Litt.


My .02 . . .

Whoa! Any license using the Devuan trademark would have to go through 
Dyne. Even licensing "DNG" could be debatable. Before any action is even 
considered, you'll need to pass it by Jaromil/Dyne.


And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have the 
financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.


Carving it into a stone tablet might be the best method of pristine 
preservation.


golinux

On 2021-09-03 03:46, al3xu5 wrote:

Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:33:31 +0200 - al3xu5 :

[...]

But nothing prevents us from using a different verbatim license, 
perhaps

more articulated and specific ...

Maybe even a specially created verbatim license!

I suggest something like:



I forgot ... The license text should be available online, and the URI
referenced in the text...

It would be like:

~~~
DNG Verbatim Libre License
Version 1.0, 1 September 2021

Copyright  2021  DNG


This License document is released under the following terms and 
conditions

of the DNG Verbatim Libre License itself.

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work are permitted
worldwide except for commercial purposes, without royalty, in any 
medium,
ensuring content source full availability and exclusive use of 
completely
open and patent-free formats when using any digital medium, provided 
this

notice is preserved. Any strictly personal use is not subject to any
limitation.

ADDENDUM

To apply this License to your works, insert a verbatim copy of the 
License

itself with it, and also add to it the following copyright and license
notices:

  Copyright
  Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work is permitted 
under
  the terms and conditions of the DNG Verbatim Libre License, Version 
1.0.

  The full text of the License is available at:
  

End of DNG Verbatim Libre License text.
~~~


Regards
al3xu5








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Re: [DNG] [OT] Video cards on Linux (was Re: Information request re: wayland)

[hal]

On 9/3/21 06:24, o1bigtenor wrote:





How did you get your 1050 Ti working under nouveau?
How many monitors/sizes are you driving off of it?

This is the card that I'm fighting!!
Trying to drive 2 - 1920x1080 and 1 - 4k.
Its the 4k monitor that seems to cause the issues!!

(Please pretty please - - - - do you have any ideas/suggestions!)



Certainly! I'm working ATM, but I will collect some info for you over the next 
day or so.

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Re: [DNG] [OT] Video cards on Linux (was Re: Information request re: wayland)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:31 AM hal  wrote:

> On 9/3/21 02:09, Steve Litt wrote:
> > spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700
> >
> >> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
> >> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> >>
> >>> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
> >>> was really not worth running.
> >>
> >> I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
> >> tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
> >> yet though.
> >
> > When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
> > the nVidia and put in a Radeon.
> >
>
> The GPU companies have been living the thug life for years. First, price
> increase was blamed on bitcoin, then the pandemic, then
> shipping/boat-stuck-in-canal... it all seems a little too convenient to
> argue a 300% price increase is still due to any one/all of these.
>
> Luckily (or un-luckily?) I have a 1050ti that I bought before prices went
> ham. A 1070ti (released in 2017!) refurb is still going for well over $500
> on Newegg ffs...
>

How did you get your 1050 Ti working under nouveau?
How many monitors/sizes are you driving off of it?

This is the card that I'm fighting!!
Trying to drive 2 - 1920x1080 and 1 - 4k.
Its the 4k monitor that seems to cause the issues!!

(Please pretty please - - - - do you have any ideas/suggestions!)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 2:09 AM Steve Litt  wrote:

> spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700
>
> >On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
> >o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> >
> >> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
> >> was really not worth running.
> >
> >I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
> >tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
> >yet though.
>
> When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
> the nVidia and put in a Radeon.
>
>  I had this system built in early 2012.
I've tried using both a Radeon 570 and a pair of 460s.
Neither time was I able to get the system up.
There is nothing I would like better than to get rid of nouveau - - - as
soon
as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28
hours.
More commonly the uptime is under 12 hours and as it takes about 35  to 40
minutes to set everything back up that's just far too much time wasted.

If anyone can help me figure out why the pair of 460s won't work (think the
570
needs a newer pci implementation but dunno) I would love to hear it

(I have - - I think -- - - just thrown in the towel on trying to compile a
kernel with
some specific commands to enable nouveau debugging - - - another 5 or 6
hours down the tubes. The 1050 Ti card is from 2016 and one would think
that
it would be fully supported some 4 years later - - - - but not so! - - -
yes I'm
grumpy - - - - far too much time poured down a hole with nothing to show
for
it - - - I use these systems - - - - they are not somewhere I want to live
on!!)

Thanking one and all for their ideas and encouragement
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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

[hal]

On 8/31/21 11:02, g4sra via Dng wrote:



In case you are unaware
To simplify the GUI side, use 'xauth'

get user_one's cookie:
user_one# xauth -n list localhost/unix:0
localhost/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g

then give the cookie to user_two:
user_two# xauth add localhost/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  
83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g

now 'user_two' can access the GUI (you may need to set DISPLAY):
user_two# DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager

I do this so frequently for 'root' that I have a two-line bash script I called 
'xsudo.sh'

#!/usr/bin/env bash
sudo bash -c "xauth add $(xauth -n list localhost/unix:0) && exec $@ &"



Ok I tried this today but I think I have something wrong. Are you running all 
these as root (I see # in your prompt)? Here is what I tried:

user1 $xauth -n list localhost/unix:0
user1 $xauth -n list
beowulf/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  4e9c9fca69b03a0b270ce53237df2fca

user1 $sudo -u webuser /bin/bash --login
No protocol specified
Cannot open display ":0.0"
No protocol specified
Cannot open display ":0.0"

webuser $xauth add beowulf/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  
4e9c9fca69b03a0b270ce53237df2fca
xauth:  timeout in locking authority file /home/user1/.Xauthority
webuser $

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[DNG] [OT] Video cards on Linux (was Re: Information request re: wayland)

[hal]

On 9/3/21 02:09, Steve Litt wrote:

spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700


On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:


He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
was really not worth running.


I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
yet though.


When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
the nVidia and put in a Radeon.



The GPU companies have been living the thug life for years. First, price 
increase was blamed on bitcoin, then the pandemic, then 
shipping/boat-stuck-in-canal... it all seems a little too convenient to argue a 
300% price increase is still due to any one/all of these.

Luckily (or un-luckily?) I have a 1050ti that I bought before prices went ham. 
A 1070ti (released in 2017!) refurb is still going for well over $500 on Newegg 
ffs...

It doesn't look like I'll be upgrading anytime soon. I'll stick to Minecraft 
and Dosbox before I pay those prices. Given the famous Linus quote pertaining 
to his thougts on Nvidia, I'm open to exploring other options.

Any suggestions for a Radeon upgrade from a 1050ti? Is RTX only an Nvidia 
thing? I quit following the GPU trade rags when pricing went ham because I got 
tired of reading the excuses.
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[terryc]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 15:48:08 -0400
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 02, 2021 at 02:16:58PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > Greetings
> > 
> > My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil)
> > is no longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using
> > Devuan which I now have on one system.)
> > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact
> > function, was really not worth running.
> > Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly
> > capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups.  
> 
> If I recall correctly from way back in the early 90's on actual Unix 
> systems, X already had a mechanism for handling multiple monitors.
> Has that fallen from X becuse of decades of bit-rot?

Still there. Mode line are a thing of the past as for the last fourto
three versions, it has mostly automagically worked for me for my PCs.
YMMV depending on your hardware, e.g various laptops. 
> 
> Don't know about multiple GPUs sending to a single monitor, though.

My 2c is to do it via a 'switch'. Either physical or maybe the input
selector switch on your monitor, Caveat I've never done that as I
either ssh -X or stick a second monitor on the other boxen.

X has been fine for me although most of my boxen are X free headless
servers. 
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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[al3xu5]

Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:33:31 +0200 - al3xu5 :

[...]

> But nothing prevents us from using a different verbatim license, perhaps
> more articulated and specific ...
> 
> Maybe even a specially created verbatim license!
> 
> I suggest sometihing like: 


I forgot ... The license text should be available online, and the URI
referenced in the text...

It would be like: 

~~~
DNG Verbatim Libre License
Version 1.0, 1 September 2021

Copyright  2021  DNG


This License document is released under the following terms and conditions
of the DNG Verbatim Libre License itself.

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work are permitted
worldwide except for commercial purposes, without royalty, in any medium,
ensuring content source full availability and exclusive use of completely
open and patent-free formats when using any digital medium, provided this
notice is preserved. Any strictly personal use is not subject to any
limitation.

ADDENDUM

To apply this License to your works, insert a verbatim copy of the License 
itself with it, and also add to it the following copyright and license
notices:

  Copyright
  Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work is permitted under
  the terms and conditions of the DNG Verbatim Libre License, Version 1.0.
  The full text of the License is available at:
  

End of DNG Verbatim Libre License text.
~~~


Regards
al3xu5

-- 
Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
restrictions!


Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B


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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License

[al3xu5]

Thu, 2 Sep 2021 21:50:10 +0200 - tito :

> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:26:52 -0400
> Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> > 
> > A discussion on this list about a month ago spawned several documents
> > about programming best practices, which I have been calling the "DNG
> > Software Guide", even though it's absolutely not sponsored or even
> > approved by Devuan.
> > 
> > With the latest version at
> > http://troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/golug_software_guide_20210901.tgz
> > , it's mature enough to get a license and Git distribution. This email
> > is about the license.
> > 
> > If this were software, I'd probably vote for an extremely permissive
> > license like the license of Expat (
> > https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:Expat ). However, this is
> > documentation, and I'm a little afraid that people with insufficient
> > knowledge, or with political agendas, will water it down with bullshit.
> > Only skilled people can modify source code, but any fool can modify
> > documentation.

[...]

Agree.



> Hi,
> 
> This are the Ten Commandments of software writing, have you ever heard
> of somebody who wants to change the Ten Commandments?
> 
> Jokes aside there is no license whatsoever that will save your work
> from idiots because there are so many and because they will in due time
> find various and subtle ways to subvert and corrupt your work that you
> cannot even imagine now.
> 
> The only helpful license is the one that forbids any modification,
> or subordinately permits modifications only under your supervision
> or under the supervision of a person appointed by you
> (unless by error you appoint one of the aforementioned idiots. That
> would be a pity!).


Indeed. 

I think it can be treated as the reference documentation that accompanies
a software. Which is modified along with the software releases.

Or like the publication of an article or a book or a technical text. Which
the author can later readjust or modify by publishing a later revision.

And, in that specific case of the "DNG Software Guide", it is a text that
contains personal views, knowledge and experiences of the author(s).


So, we want to make the "DNG Software Guide" available (and any subsequent
revisions modified by the same author(s)), also allowing its
redistribution, but without the content being altered by others.

Basically, it seems to me that a verbatim license is needed.
For example: 

https://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/html_node/Verbatim-Copying-License.html


But nothing prevents us from using a different verbatim license, perhaps
more articulated and specific ...

Maybe even a specially created verbatim license!

I suggest sometihing like: 

~~~

DNG Verbatim Libre License
Version 1.0, 1 September 2021

Copyright  2021  DNG


This License document is released under the following terms and conditions
of the DNG Verbatim Libre License itself.

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work are permitted
worldwide except for commercial purposes, without royalty, in any medium,
ensuring content source full availability and exclusive use of completely
open and patent-free formats when using any digital medium, provided this
notice is preserved. Any strictly personal use is not subject to any
limitation.

ADDENDUM

To apply this License to your works, insert a verbatim copy of the License 
itself with it, and also add to it the following copyright and license
notices:

  Copyright
  Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work is permitted under
  the terms and conditions of the DNG Verbatim Libre License License,
  Version 1.0.

End of DNG Verbatim Libre License text.

~~~


If this is a (good) idea that can be pursued, I think it would be
interesting and important to discuss it, establish the exact wording of
the license (name, copyright holder, clauses etc.) ... and use it in the
case in question (and in all other cases where a verbatim license is
needed)! 




> I understand that this form of licensing is not propitious to encourage
> progress. 
> 
> OTOH often I ask myself: Progress? what progress?

Exactly: progress is not good in itself...


> This are my pessimistic 2 cents.

Pessimistic? I would say realistic. 


Regards





al3xu5

-- 
Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
restrictions!


Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B


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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide

[Antonio A. Rendina via Dng]

Normally the modification should be sent to the maintainer that should 
apply the modification to the official version. If someone decide to 
fork and change the document you should not care, because it's not your 
document anymore.


For example if you proceed with, git you will receive the patches as per 
tradition, or following the rules that you can set.


Actually, I don't think it's a big deal.

On 02/09/21 20:26, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi everyone,

A discussion on this list about a month ago spawned several documents
about programming best practices, which I have been calling the "DNG
Software Guide", even though it's absolutely not sponsored or even
approved by Devuan.

With the latest version at
http://troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/golug_software_guide_20210901.tgz
, it's mature enough to get a license and Git distribution. This email
is about the license.

If this were software, I'd probably vote for an extremely permissive
license like the license of Expat (
https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:Expat ). However, this is
documentation, and I'm a little afraid that people with insufficient
knowledge, or with political agendas, will water it down with bullshit.
Only skilled people can modify source code, but any fool can modify
documentation.

Because of https://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html
, I think the GFDL would be a bad choice.

I've been thinking of this for weeks now, and I'm stumped. What license
should we apply in order for this to be free and open information, and
yet to the degree possible, limit contamination by the uninformed or
the malicious?

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[Steve Litt]

o1bigtenor via Dng said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500

>Greetings
>
>My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is
>no longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan
>which I now have on one system.)
>He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
>was really not worth running.
>Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly
>capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups.
>
>What say you?

I'm not installing Wayland until the bitter end. The day I install
Wayland, my dmenu software breaks, and I use that literally hundreds of
times a day. The day I install Wayland, I can't use my beloved Openbox
window manager anymore. Most important, I keep hearing little voices on
the web imply that Wayland is very closely tied to systemd.

I have no problem with X.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[Steve Litt]

spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700

>On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
>o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
>> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
>> was really not worth running.   
>
>I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
>tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
>yet though.

When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
the nVidia and put in a Radeon.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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