Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 02:23:28PM +0200, maxime freepote via Dng wrote:
> I had to use the conflict resolutioni tool of aptitude after an "apt-get
> full-upgrade". Python was the main cause of this behaviour but also external
> packages from non-standard repositories. Except this, all of the upgrade went
> well, from a devuan that also runs since ascii.

I once had problems like this with a low-level display-related package.  
Two packages turned out to contain the same file, and so only one could 
remain.  I thought it was a packageing problem (such packages should not 
be in one repository, but it turned out that a previous upgrade (done a 
year or more ago) hadn't completed properly, and so I still had (and was 
presumably using) a package from multiple releases ago.  I had to delete 
it using dpkg.  apt and aptitude kept failing because of the undeclared 
conflict.

-- hendrik

> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> Maxime
> 
> package sources.
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 07:56:47AM -0400, . via Dng wrote:
> > On 10/17/21 07:48, terryc wrote:
> > > > I'm sorry to report that I tried a dist-upgrade from devuan beowulf
> > > > with KDE on an older machine.  The result was a system with a
> > > > nonfunctional window manager and messed-up display resolution, and no
> > > > working Ethernet connection (and no wifi hardware).
> > > AFAIK, that isn't the way you are  supposed to do it.
> > >
> > > Under beowulf; I did
> > >   sudo apt-get update
> > >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> > >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > > reboot
> >
> > Hmmm.  I edited /etc/apt/sources.lst to use chimaera debs first, under
> > beowulf, then did the above sequence.
> >
> > > Edit /etc/apt/sources.list to change beowulf to chimaera
> > > I actually copy and date the deb lines and edit version to chimaera and
> > > comment out the beowulf lines so there is a history record.
> > >
> > > Them with chimaera in the /etc/apt/sources.list
> > >   sudo apt-get update
> > >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> > >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > > reboot and repeat;
> > >   sudo apt-get update
> > >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> > >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > > rebbot.
> >
> > Well, it can't hurt to try another update/upgrade cycle; I had a konsole
> > open during the last reboot and it was restored, so I can do command-line
> > things (and what else could I possibly need :-) If that doesn't fix things
> > up then it's nuke-and-repave time.
> >
> > -bobmon
> >
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Re: [DNG] snetaid debs...

[aitor]

Hi,

On 16/10/21 12:35, al3xu5 wrote:

On 16/10/21 12:14, al3xu5 wrote:

Hi Aitor

As you know Wicd is no longer available in Bullseye / Chimaera.

I would like to upgrade to Chimaera eliminating Wicd (regardless of
whether it is not available), and I would like to use snetaid, which
seems to me to be a good alternative.

So I wondered if there are news on development, even about the GTK
interface.

Thanks
Reegrads

al3xu5

I've read the warning about the missing wicd in Chimaera and i want to
notice you that i've been working a lot on simple-netaid during these
last days. There will be a lot of new features, being the most important
of them the removal of the suid binary on the one hand, and the addition. I'm
of a netlink socket in the code of the daemon (snetaid) on the other,
making the ncurses interface reactive not only to the callbacks of the
interface itself, but also to any netlink event coming from foreign
processes, whether network managers or command line scripts. Packages
will be available soon, and i hope it won't take me more than one week.

That sounds great!!!
Thank you a lot.


The following video shows how snetaid reacts to other network-managers
(i used wicd for the demo) and also to shell commands. I'm still testing
it in order to find any possible segmentation fault. Shortly i'll push the
new code to gitea.

Here you are the link:

https://www.gnuinos.org/videos/simple-netaid-cdk-2021-10-17_23.56.04.mkv  


Cheers,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[Bernard Rosset via Dng]

Congratulations to all who were involved and helped making this awaited 
milestone a reality!


Having upgraded from beowulf to chimaera on a long-standing system, in 
which everything was most likely to break, the most time-consuming steps 
I encountered were:
* Loads of customised configuration to update based on new configuration 
templates
* A few stopped services I forgot to decommission, inducing failures on 
package update restart hooks

* A poorly written network pre-up hook managing DHCPv6 which back-fired

All in all, a rather smooth upgrade overall, even though it might be too 
soon to be peremptory about it.
It also be be noted that this was a server, hence a rather "simple" 
environment, involving no GUI nor fancy network management tools.


As an anecdote, I (re?)learnt about the "proposed" repository thanks to 
the release notes ! (o:


I wish you all a great week,
Bernard (Beer) Rosset
https://rosset.net/
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Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[Steve Litt]

Hendrik Boom said on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 11:55:56 -0400

>On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 07:56:47AM -0400, . via Dng wrote:
>> On 10/17/21 07:48, terryc wrote:  

[snip]

>> Well, it can't hurt to try another update/upgrade cycle; I had a
>> konsole open during the last reboot and it was restored, so I can do
>> command-line things (and what else could I possibly need :-) If that
>> doesn't fix things up then it's nuke-and-repave time.  
>
>I've learned it's useful to repeat upgrades and dist-upgrandes and an 
>occasinoal aptitude until nothing happens AND there are no errors
>reported.

When dealing with non-rolling releases, and maybe even rolling releases
in certain circumstances, I'm a fan of nuke-and-repave for major
versions. This is because I'm an elder in the Church of the Known State,
and a brand new install is an opportunity to achieve a known state. This
tends to limit the ghosts of versions past.

Obviously, at least one complete, known good and known restorable
backup must be taken before this. In addition, before this, the results
of mount, lshw (as root), and whatever package management command gives
you the packages installed manually, as opposed to those installed only
as dependencies. If possible, also print the output of mount and lshw.

Then install the new major version, then install all your backed up
*data*, as opposed to OS or package supplied *programs*, then install
all the packages on the list of manually installed packages. What I
generally do is copy the list of packages to a shellscript, convert it
to package install commands, comment them all out, and then uncomment
ten at a time to install them. Why ten at a time? So if something goes
wrong you can find it, and so it doesn't take hours.

After that, take a backup of the new system including /etc and
$HOME, then restore *strategic* config files from /etc/ and ~ and
~/.config. By strategic, I mean configs that you hand-crafted.
Sometimes it's better to copy your hand-crafting into current
package-installed config files. I find this especially true of Dovecot.

On more thing. When *I* write a program, I never put it in /usr/bin or
/usr/local/bin or /opt. I have my own directory, called /d/bats (last
century it was called D:\BATS when I used Windows), to contain all
executables (including shellscripts and perl/python/ruby/lua/ and the
like) written by me. You can certainly name that directory differently,
but it's a directory containing your executables and only your
executables, so it restores with your personal data, and is not
molested by anything in the upgrade. Obviously, this directory is on
the system's executable path.In DOS, Windows, and Linux this segregation
of executables written by me has served me extremely well. I'd suggest
you do it too.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[maxime freepote via Dng]

I had to use the conflict resolutioni tool of aptitude after an "apt-get
full-upgrade". Python was the main cause of this behaviour but also external
packages from non-standard repositories. Except this, all of the upgrade went
well, from a devuan that also runs since ascii.

Thanks a lot!

Maxime

package sources.
On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 07:56:47AM -0400, . via Dng wrote:
> On 10/17/21 07:48, terryc wrote:
> > > I'm sorry to report that I tried a dist-upgrade from devuan beowulf
> > > with KDE on an older machine.  The result was a system with a
> > > nonfunctional window manager and messed-up display resolution, and no
> > > working Ethernet connection (and no wifi hardware).
> > AFAIK, that isn't the way you are  supposed to do it.
> >
> > Under beowulf; I did
> >   sudo apt-get update
> >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > reboot
>
> Hmmm.  I edited /etc/apt/sources.lst to use chimaera debs first, under
> beowulf, then did the above sequence.
>
> > Edit /etc/apt/sources.list to change beowulf to chimaera
> > I actually copy and date the deb lines and edit version to chimaera and
> > comment out the beowulf lines so there is a history record.
> >
> > Them with chimaera in the /etc/apt/sources.list
> >   sudo apt-get update
> >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > reboot and repeat;
> >   sudo apt-get update
> >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > rebbot.
>
> Well, it can't hurt to try another update/upgrade cycle; I had a konsole
> open during the last reboot and it was restored, so I can do command-line
> things (and what else could I possibly need :-) If that doesn't fix things
> up then it's nuke-and-repave time.
>
> -bobmon
>
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[DNG] Chimaera: line wrap in terminal

[Haines Brown]

When I upgraded to Chimara from Beowulf, I lost auto wrqp in mlterm. 

I gather from the xterm manual that auto-wrap is enabled by default. 
But I now see no such option in the mlterm manual. This is annoying 
enough that I may have to abandon mlterm.

Any way to recover auto wrap or to define col width to 70? Another 
change that occurred is that I now need to define some inner border.

-- 
Haines Brown  
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Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[Antony Stone]

On Sunday 17 October 2021 at 17:55:56, Hendrik Boom wrote:

> I've learned it's useful to repeat upgrades and dist-upgrandes and an
> occasinoal aptitude until nothing happens AND there are no errors reported.

I have found that apt is better for doing an upgrade whereas I prefer aptitude 
for installing pakcages in general.

> I don't know why just repeating this should help; somehow, even with no
> reported errors that I can see, the job often isn't done.  Almost as if
> the various apt-* commands don't do a complete job of analysing
> dependencies and opportunities.

Indeed - it must be an amazingly complex process, but one of the big reasons 
why I like DEB-based systems is because it is at least possible to upgrade 
from one release to another, generally with very little pain.

Try that with an RPM system and you'll be glad you have a backup of /home, and 
you'll then just install an new system and remount the backup...


Antony.

-- 
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   Please reply to the list;
 please *don't* CC me.
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Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 07:56:47AM -0400, . via Dng wrote:
> On 10/17/21 07:48, terryc wrote:
> > > I'm sorry to report that I tried a dist-upgrade from devuan beowulf
> > > with KDE on an older machine.  The result was a system with a
> > > nonfunctional window manager and messed-up display resolution, and no
> > > working Ethernet connection (and no wifi hardware).
> > AFAIK, that isn't the way you are  supposed to do it.
> > 
> > Under beowulf; I did
> >   sudo apt-get update
> >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > reboot
> 
> Hmmm.  I edited /etc/apt/sources.lst to use chimaera debs first, under
> beowulf, then did the above sequence.
> 
> > Edit /etc/apt/sources.list to change beowulf to chimaera
> > I actually copy and date the deb lines and edit version to chimaera and
> > comment out the beowulf lines so there is a history record.
> > 
> > Them with chimaera in the /etc/apt/sources.list
> >   sudo apt-get update
> >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > reboot and repeat;
> >   sudo apt-get update
> >   sudo apt-get upgrade
> >   sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> > rebbot.
> 
> Well, it can't hurt to try another update/upgrade cycle; I had a konsole
> open during the last reboot and it was restored, so I can do command-line
> things (and what else could I possibly need :-) If that doesn't fix things
> up then it's nuke-and-repave time.

I've learned it's useful to repeat upgrades and dist-upgrandes and an 
occasinoal aptitude until nothing happens AND there are no errors reported.

I don't know why just repeating this should help; somehow, even with no 
reported errors that I can see, the job often isn't done.  Almost as if 
the various apt-* commands don't do a complete job of analysing 
dependencies and opportunities.

-- hendrik

> 
> -bobmon
> 
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Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[. via Dng]

On 10/17/21 07:48, terryc wrote:

I'm sorry to report that I tried a dist-upgrade from devuan beowulf
with KDE on an older machine.  The result was a system with a
nonfunctional window manager and messed-up display resolution, and no
working Ethernet connection (and no wifi hardware).

AFAIK, that isn't the way you are  supposed to do it.

Under beowulf; I did
  sudo apt-get update
  sudo apt-get upgrade
  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
reboot


Hmmm.  I edited /etc/apt/sources.lst to use chimaera debs first, under 
beowulf, then did the above sequence.



Edit /etc/apt/sources.list to change beowulf to chimaera
I actually copy and date the deb lines and edit version to chimaera and
comment out the beowulf lines so there is a history record.

Them with chimaera in the /etc/apt/sources.list
  sudo apt-get update
  sudo apt-get upgrade
  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
reboot and repeat;
  sudo apt-get update
  sudo apt-get upgrade
  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
rebbot.


Well, it can't hurt to try another update/upgrade cycle; I had a konsole 
open during the last reboot and it was restored, so I can do 
command-line things (and what else could I possibly need :-) If that 
doesn't fix things up then it's nuke-and-repave time.


-bobmon

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[DNG] Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[terryc]

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 07:10:50 -0400
". via Dng"  wrote:

> > Dear Friends and Software Freedom Lovers,
> >
> > Devuan Developers are pleased to announce the release of Devuan
> > Chimaera 4.0 as the project's newest stable release. This is the
> > result of lots of painstaking work by the team and extensive
> > testing by the wider Devuan community.  
> 
> I'm sorry to report that I tried a dist-upgrade from devuan beowulf
> with KDE on an older machine.  The result was a system with a
> nonfunctional window manager and messed-up display resolution, and no
> working Ethernet connection (and no wifi hardware).

AFAIK, that isn't the way you are  supposed to do it.

Under beowulf; I did
 sudo apt-get update
 sudo apt-get upgrade
 sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
reboot

Edit /etc/apt/sources.list to change beowulf to chimaera
I actually copy and date the deb lines and edit version to chimaera and
comment out the beowulf lines so there is a history record.

Them with chimaera in the /etc/apt/sources.list
 sudo apt-get update
 sudo apt-get upgrade
 sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
reboot and repeat;
 sudo apt-get update
 sudo apt-get upgrade
 sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
rebbot.

I was surprised when the second set was far longer that the first set.
A large number of libraries seemed to need to change, which could have
been because this was my main computer and often install programs to
try them out.

Also, YMMV, but there were a couple of 'sudo apt autoremove' in there.


> I'm going to try a clean install next.  Fortunately I keep my /home 
> filesystem on a separate partition.

Wise move.
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Re: [DNG] Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[. via Dng]

Dear Friends and Software Freedom Lovers,

Devuan Developers are pleased to announce the release of Devuan Chimaera
4.0 as the project's newest stable release. This is the result of lots of
painstaking work by the team and extensive testing by the wider Devuan
community.


I'm sorry to report that I tried a dist-upgrade from devuan beowulf with 
KDE on an older machine.  The result was a system with a nonfunctional 
window manager and messed-up display resolution, and no working Ethernet 
connection (and no wifi hardware).


I'm going to try a clean install next.  Fortunately I keep my /home 
filesystem on a separate partition.


-bobmon

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Re: [DNG] Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[al3xu5]

Thu, 14 Oct 2021 11:00:33 -0400 - Mason Loring Bliss :

> Dear Friends and Software Freedom Lovers,
> 
> Devuan Developers are pleased to announce the release of Devuan Chimaera
> 4.0 as the project's newest stable release. This is the result of lots of
> painstaking work by the team and extensive testing by the wider Devuan
> community.

[...]


I am a Devuan user since Devuan beta (migrating from Debian).

Then, continuing on the same initial installation, I migrated to Jessie,
then to ASCII and Beowulf...

And I have a perfect system I am delighted.

Now, I will also migrate to Chimaera.

This premise to say only one thing: thank you very very much!!! 

Best regards
al3xu5

-- 
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restrictions!


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