Re: [DNG] Cease battling each other in e-mail (was: Of confidence and support and the future of Devuan.)
Jaromil, it really is time for you to stop. It is time for YOU to stop. It is TIME for you to stop. On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:24 PM Jaromil wrote: > > dear Rick, > > I wholeheartedly agree with you and others here that this > communication shouldn't have been public, I also consider this a > damage procured to the project, which I did not start nor was able to > mediate. As I admitted in devuan-dev, I don't think I'm apt for > mediation on this issue anymore. > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, Rick Moen wrote: > > > Nobody should be forced out, nobody should be driven to quit > > unfortunately this has happened, plus a series of other events, which > have then been represented here in a manipulative way. I now believe I > was wrong in nurturing this thread. My mistake came from fear that > people wouldn't understand what is going on. I'm sorry for the noise. > > FTR I agree with you about the noble meaning of (non institutional?) > politics. I should have used just the term populism. I do believe > Devuan caretakers should show their care for Devuan by dedicating > themselves to solve conflicts in private and within those in charge, > rather than bring it to public this way. > > ciao > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] IBM Gives Away PowerPC; Goes Open Source
RISC-V is changing a lot of things. PowerPC doesn't have much value any longer. IBM will be fine without it. I wouldn't capitalize ARM right now. Disclaimer: Since I am part running a venture fund these days, SEC won't let me say what I'm actually invested in to you lowly non-accredited investors, but it might be a company on one side or the other of this argument. Where the first amendment fits in this I am still unclear. On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Simon Hobson wrote: > Didier Kryn wrote: > > > Therefore it means IBM doesn't care anymore in PowerPc arch ... That's > what I fear, actually. > > I don't think it means that. It's clear that PowerPC is stuck as a niche > architecture. The only way out of that is to get lots of people using it - > and making it freely available is one way towards that. You only need to > look at a few examples to see that : > > USB vs FireWire. Firewire was very significantly better in many respects > than USB, but it was expensive to implement because Apple were greedy over > royalties. The inferior USB was really cheap to implement and took over. > > ARM. They licensed it widely for modest amounts, and it's been widely > implemented instead of other architectures. > > For IBM, it could be a shrewd move to get more people using the platform, > and thus boost it's popularity, and thus boost both the availability of > hardware and choice of software to run on it. The Intel approach is to try > and have all of the cake; this could be a move to make the cake much > bigger, and thus make a slice of it bigger. > IFF it works, they'll significantly expand the PowerPC market - and while > they'll have a smaller share of it, they'll actually make more money. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens - Partner, OSS.Capital. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] I wrote IBM
Steve has a perfect right to do this if he wants. However I don't believe it's going to be effective, since red hat will continue to operate independently, so it has the same management as before. I think the most instructive thing I've seen so far is the fact that SpaceX does not use it in their custom distribution. On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 17:46 Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:54:09 +0200 > Evilham via Dng wrote: > > > On dg., set. 29 2019, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > > On 2019-09-28 21:32, Steve Litt wrote: > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> I just wrote IBM asking them to reconsider systemd, given that > > >> IBM's > > >> business model is different from the old Red Hat's. > > [big snip] > > > +1. That's shy of stalking, > > "Just shy of stalking" is hyperbole way over the top. It's also > pretty insulting. > > Both people I wrote are public figures, both are high officers in a > corporation, and neither is my current or ex lover, in reality or in my > mind. I'm writing them about business, not about some relationship I > think I have with them. I neither contacted them outside of their > business, nor followed or snooped on them outside their business. > > There's a long and rich tradition of people writing the CEO or other > high officers. The usual result is that somebody is assigned to examine > the merits of the letter writer. > > So if you think what I'm doing is counterproductive, fine, say so > (which you did in the next sentence) and don't write a letter. But > don't insult me or other letter writers by putting my action *anywhere* > on the stalking scale. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence > http://www.troubleshooters.com/key > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] fifth freedom
This isn't actually a right that you can grant yourself regarding other people's copyrighted works. You can only waive the license terms regarding software for which you hold the entire copyright. And in that case, you don't have to say it in the license because it is the legal default. On Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 07:29 onefang wrote: > > I had recently added what I call freedom -1 to the licence of > apt-panopticon. 'the author specifically grants themselves the freedom to > not be infected by the viral licence clauses of any code this source code > "links" to. It's my code, I choose my licence terms, no one else does.' > > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What to do with an inode?
Many things. An open file descriptor refers to the inode. On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 10:18 AM aitor_czr wrote: > Hi, > On 30/3/20 15:46, Simon Hobson wrote: > > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 03:18:45PM +, aitor_czr wrote: > > $ ls --inode --directory "/" > > 2 / > > Is there anything I can do with an inode except check file identity within > a filesystem? > > You can use it as a search condition for find using '-inum n' > Other than that, my quick search suggested there aren't any useful things you > can do with it - or at least nothing that's not easier to do by just looking > up a name for it and working with a normal directory entry. > > I did see some search results related to file with no directory entry, but > the inode staying in existence due to the file being open. As in, "I want to > create a directory entry pointing to a specific inode to rescue the file so > it doesn't disappear when closed". I didn't actually look at any of these > though. > > Simon > > As far as i know, it's not possible to interact with the file directly via > inode for a very good reason: > it would be a way to slip through the directory permissions as you > traverse the full pathname's hierarchy > tree upstream to the given file. > > Cheers, > > Aitor. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens - General Partner, Incubator.Fund, Partner, OSS.Capital. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
Copy the block partition (not the mounted files) to a same size or larger blank block partition using ddrescue or gddrescue. Try to mount that read only and copy the files off. If it doesn't work, try to restore the superblock using one of the tutorials online. On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:52 PM Dimitris via Dng wrote: > On 8/30/20 12:35 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > advice is most welcome. > > maybe a "long shot" , but did you try another cable/adapter/case for > that disk? > > a few badblocks (?) would slow down the whole disk and maybe not open > some folder(s)... > "input/output error" and smart "read failure" could be something else. > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
If you just want to reuse the physical drive, without the data, there is a way to do that. Write zeros the entire length of the block device. If there are enough spare sectors left on the disk, the bad ones will be relocated as you write them. The various disk tools will then tell you what the overall health of the drive is. On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 4:12 PM wrote: > On 2020-08-29 17:15, Bruce Perens via Dng wrote: > > Copy the block partition (not the mounted files) to a same size or > > larger > > blank block partition using ddrescue or gddrescue. Try to mount that > > read > > only and copy the files off. If it doesn't work, try to restore the > > superblock using one of the tutorials online. > > > > Thanks Bruce . . . > > Unfortunately, I don't have spare 1 TB drives laying around. Since that > drive is an exact copy of another still working drive, no critical data > has been lost so no need to copy files. > > I'm guessing that this failure is beyond fsck . . . > > golinux > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility
The problem for me is that I would rather work on new stuff. Systemd and so on are symptoms of the Unix design not really being a good fit for modern demands. That doesn't mean that you band-aid them with systemd, it's time for a different architecture. It is also time for what comes after Open Source, as I have talked about here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTsc1m78BUk It's not clear how much of this I will personally get to work upon. Thanks Bruce On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:08 PM terryc wrote: > On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 11:13:02 -0500 > goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > A link to this rant was posted on FDN yesterday. I had never heard of > > Luke Smith before and was not particularly impressed with either his > > presentational style or his bemoaning the death of white, male > > privilege but . . . I could very well imagine Linux going down the > > path his "nightmare" imagines. > > > > https://libre.video/videos/watch/b576019d-8957-4efb-8571-6a14e0889136 > > entry for the worst video ever made? > Thank for watching it and summarising it. > > > > If Debian doesn't wake up and reverse course what will become of > > Devuan? The entire Linux ecosystem as we have known it could become a > > nostalgic footnote in the history of the digital age. > > > > It's a good time to be old . . . > > Feels that way. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [FLASH] THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS HAS FALLEN
They'll get up again. What we are seeing is the last hurrah of white supremacists who aren't getting their way. On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:55 AM Se7en wrote: > The Congress of the United States has fallen. This is NOT A JOKE. The > United States Congress has fallen. > > -- > |-/ | Se7en > / The One and Only! | se7en@cock.email > / | 0x0F83F93882CF6116 >/ | https://se7en-site.neocities.org > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan wallpaper licensing?
CC ND and CC BY NC ND would have to go in the non-free section. On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:30 AM wrote: > On 2021-01-27 12:51, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > Which licenses are relevant for contributing wallpapers to the distro? > > > > Would CC BY-ND [1] be the most appropriate, for photos? What about CC > > BY-NC-ND [2] or is there an established license already chosen? > > > > /Lars > > > > [1] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/ > > > > [2] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0 > > > > The only Devuan wallpapers in the official repos are those for the > default theme. Why not just open an account on Devuan's git, upload your > wallpapers, then post a link on the forum > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=8 and elsewhere. Choose > whichever license that suits you. In the meantime, how about a > show-and-tell? :D > > golinux > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan wallpaper licensing?
Not a problem. Everyone should feel free to write me directly when they have questions. On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 1:14 PM wrote: > Thank you Bruce. You noticed how I sidestepped answering that question. > Sadly, the finer points of licensing has never sunk in despite the > informative interactions we've had with you over the years . . . > > golinux > > On 2021-01-27 14:43, Bruce Perens wrote: > > CC ND and CC BY NC ND would have to go in the non-free section. > > > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:30 AM wrote: > > > >> On 2021-01-27 12:51, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: > >> > Greetings, > >> > > >> > Which licenses are relevant for contributing wallpapers to the distro? > >> > > >> > Would CC BY-ND [1] be the most appropriate, for photos? What about CC > >> > BY-NC-ND [2] or is there an established license already chosen? > >> > > >> > /Lars > >> > > >> > [1] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/ > >> > > >> > [2] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0 > >> > > >> > >> The only Devuan wallpapers in the official repos are those for the > >> default theme. Why not just open an account on Devuan's git, upload > >> your > >> wallpapers, then post a link on the forum > >> https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=8 and elsewhere. Choose > >> whichever license that suits you. In the meantime, how about a > >> show-and-tell? :D > >> > >> golinux > >> ___ > >> Dng mailing list > >> Dng@lists.dyne.org > >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > >> > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] On Non-Judicial Punishment of Individuals
On Non-Judicial Punishment of Individuals Including Richard Stallman. https://perens.com/2021/04/04/on-non-judicical-punishment-of-individuals/ -- Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
If you want this, it's easy enough to allocate your own stack, and write
functions that allocate from it and release the allocation. If you were
writing in C++, you could make releasing the allocation automatic.
I think this illustrates why the kernel developers are taking Rust
seriously.
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 4:48 PM Steve Litt wrote:
> Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:24:07 +0200
>
>
> >In kernel space, we have the golden rule of not doing any larger stack
> >allocations, even not larger fixed sized arrays.
>
> Larger than how much? Surely
>
> bestdistro[12]; strncpy(bestdistro, "Devuan", strlen("Devuan"));
>
> would be OK, right?
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
> ___
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
Unfortunately there isn't really a good display solution for Linux that does not make use of "direct rendering", in which user-mode code talks directly to the display hardware - especially where 3D and video are concerned. It is simply not possible to construct a reliable system in which user-mode code has direct access to hardware. In any well-designed system, this is exclusively a kernel function. Wayland just takes the user-mode code even closer to the hardware. Thanks Bruce On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 10:22 AM Alexander Brüning via Dng wrote: > > On Thu, 2021-09-02 at 14:16 -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > Greetings > > > > My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no > > longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which > > I now have on one system.) > > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was > > really not worth running. > > Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly > > capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. > > > > What say you? > > > > TIA > > I keep looking into Wayland every 6 months or so. It isn't ready yet. There > are a bunch of native, minimalist window managers for it and apparently the > X compatibility layer works quite well, but all the slightly heavier WMs/DEs > didn't convince me. Gnome is just a default no from me, KDE works but keeps > crashing, XFCE isn't ported yet and the few small native DEs are still very > early. The most usable WM seems to be Sway, but that is heavily inspired by > i3 which I personally don't like. > > What I can say on the positive side though is that it works just fine on my > Systemd-free Gentoo installation (haven't tried it on Devuan yet) and seems > very smooth. On AMD at least. Nvidia has really, really dragged its feet on > supporting the necessary extensions. > > Somewhat related: Pipewire is already much, much better than Pulseaudio and > seems ready for daily use. If you have a need for something that provides > functionality above pure ALSA give it a go. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Bruce Perens K6BP - Board Partner, OSS Capital LLC Venture Capital - CEO, undisclosed startup ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs
Busybox is GNU. The fact that FSF doesn't own it is immaterial. I developed it for Debian GNU/Linux. On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 11:07 AM onefang wrote: > On 2022-01-20 18:40:13, Antony Stone wrote: > > On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 17:24:46, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2022-01-16 at 04:12 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E > > > > > > Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought that > > > Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the UNIX group - > I > > > wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and "The Unix Programming > > > Environment" would have happened without his obvious ability to take > > > abstruse and difficult material and make it accessible. > > > > > > If I had one incredibly tiny nit to pick, it would be that he didn't > > > mention GNU (it appeared once in the slide showing Linus' original > > > email). Without GNU, it's reasonable to suppose that linux wouldn't > have > > > happened. > > > > I disagree with "it's reasonable to suppose that". > > > > Linus Torvalds was building a system for himself, partly (I believe) > because > > he liked Unix but couldn't afford a Unix system of his own, and > therefore he > > was of course going to build it using as much free (of charge) software > as he > > could. > > > > That meant GNU. > > > > I think the Unix philosophy and design principles are beautiful, and > formed > > the basis of an amazingly efficient system, but some of those principles > are > > embodied in Linux and some are embodied in GNU (for example, devices as > files, > > and pipes, in the first; and tools such as tr, cut, grep in the second), > so > > these days we can't really separate the two - Linux is nothing without > GNU > > (although the reverse is not true). > > It's entirely possible to have a Linux OS without any GNU software. > Using such things as busybox and toybox for example. > > -- > A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants > coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel-update: initramfs fails to find swap
Isn't this one of the things the "dracut" alternative to initramfs-tools was intended to fix? On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 12:42 PM Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 21:20:56 +0100 > Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > > > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 20:29:39 +0100 > > aitor wrote: > > > > > If the name swap happens randomly, then the required setting might > > > be: > > > > > > RESUME=none > > > > > > instead of: > > > > > > resume=UUID= > > > > > > in your /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume > > > > > > HTH, > > > > > > Aitor > > > > > > > > Thank you Aitor, that was the crucial hint, the 'RESUME' variable is > > upper case... of course: an environment variable! So my system boots > > fine and fast again and also suspend/resume works. > > > > Still, when I have the 'RESUME' variable defined correctly in > > '/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume', 'update-initramfs -u' does not > > return anything but > > > > update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-5.10.0-11-amd64 > > > > while with the lowercase spelling (as well as with an empty config), > > it additionally returns the (also formerly quoted) info lines > > > > I: The initramfs will attempt to resume from /dev/sdb1 > > I: (UUID=a743df91-ac0a-419b-95e7-5c266447e543) > > I: Set the RESUME variable to override this. > > > > but this "attempt" then fails for some reason, although the initramfs > > should have the correct info (and IIRC should just try the first > > available swap partition anyway.) > > > > Thanks again and libre Grüße, > > Florian > > > > PS: Also the reason for the (temporarily) not persistent block device > names is still absolutely unclear to me. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens K6BP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel-update: initramfs fails to find swap
Florian, I'm glad that worked. What I found with initramfs-tools was that kernels I built on my workstation were not working on my laptop because they ended up having hardcoded device references built into the initramfs. Thus must be especially relevant to people who build kernels for inclusion in a distribution. Dracut is intended to do without these hardcoded things. IMO if they are anywhere, they belong in the GRUB command line. Thanks Bruce On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:12 PM Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:28:39 -0800 > Bruce Perens wrote: > > > Isn't this one of the things the "dracut" alternative to > > initramfs-tools was intended to fix? > > > Hallo Bruce, > > thank you for the hint: My system just accomplished the second power-on > (of two, this time from hibernation) with its new dracut-generated > initramfs, successfully. > > libre Grüße, > Florian > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens K6BP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Piping is an easy way to do multithreading: was mouse driver question
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 3:43 PM Steve Litt wrote: > each process in the pipeline will get its own processor core (or nowadays, > thread). They are the old-fashioned processes. Generally much heavier-weight than threads, but it doesn't matter for this application. If there are enough CPUs or CPU contexts (hyperthreads), each process in the pipe will get one. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] strange effect on overwrite
Speed tests on cached filesystems don't do what is expected. The kernel will write into RAM as much as it can, and leave the actual I/O for later. On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 12:39 PM Jakub Juszczakiewicz via Dng < dng@lists.dyne.org> wrote: > Hi list, > > What is time between call dd? On ext filesystems is implemented > delay before physically write date on disk. It's for e.g. minimally > files fragmentation. Second question is that, did you try call "sync" > command after each of writes? > > --- > Best regards, > Jakub Juszczakiewicz > Krypto-IT > > W dniu 2022-06-23 14:27, Radisson via Dng napisał(a): > > Its a normal HD i guess 4096 is ok, > > but i do not think that this matters. > > > > > > Am 23.06.22 um 13:11 schrieb Rich W: > >> Hi, > >> > >> A blocksize of 1G seems extreme. > >> What is the optimal blocksize of the output device? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> -Rich > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 4:52 AM Radisson via Dng > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi list, > >>> i found a strange ext4 (?) effect. > >>> > >>> when i write to a disk: > >>> dd if=/dev/zero of=xx bs=1G count=1 > >>> > >>> reports 2.6 GB (expected) > >>> doing again speed drops to 200MB. > >>> > >>> removing xx restores old speed. > >>> > >>> I ask the net and it seems that the effect is there > >>> since kernel 2.6. I found the explainations a bit confusing. > >>> > >>> does anyone know more ? > >>> > >>> note: i was analysing a performace issue for mysql and i am > >>> not sure if that problems matters outside tests. > >>> > >>> re > >>> rp > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Dng mailing list > >>> Dng@lists.dyne.org > >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > >>> > >> > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Bruce Perens K6BP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Be prepared for the fall of systemd
I came to the conclusion a while back that systemd was symptomatic of the fact that we had gone as far as the fundamental assumptions of the Unix API could take us. It is 50 years old, after all. There is room for replacement of systemd and continuation of Linux and BSD. But we should be looking forward to something else as the next OS paradigm. This would include features that have been seen mostly in experimental operating systems up to now. This is what I think the "next OS" might be: The fundamental OS concept is "Everything's an API" rather than everything's a file. APIs rather than libraries and linking. A mechanism to set up an API upon request, where the details are hidden from the application. The API may run on a different CPU. This means you need lightweight processes and fast IPC with the capability to redirect to a slower network connection. APIs have persistence and can own resources, and have an identifier that is something like a file descriptor. The replacement for open/socket/connect/accept is requesting an API with certain resources. APIs persist until you release them or they can no longer be provided because the other side has disconnected or a resource becomes unavailable. No assumption that any API provider lives on your computer. It can be anywhere, but is often on your computer for efficiency. No distinction between an API call and a system call. API calls are not blocking, but have an asynchronous event channel that the application listens to. Minimal installation for network-connected systems. API providers live on the web and can be cached on a local server, and are locally cached on a resource that is not user writable. Storage is an API provider and may live elsewhere. Systems may not have any storage, or may only have caching, or may have local storage. Message bus appears as an API with an asynchronous event channel. Configuration by a JSON db. The simplest is just a JSON file with an API that edits it. It's human-editable and readable, but human editing is not required for configuration. Local configuration overlaps site-level configuration. First-class sessions. This was a big missing element in Unix and I think a lot of the impetus for systemd. Sessions are API providers and own the facility that connects processes to all other APIs. They own the user information and only provide you with APIs that match your privilege. They own their own resources such as displays, audio, and input devices. You start with a session and then create processes in it. You can't create a process without creating a session first, but it may be a headless session, etc. No privilege escalation for your session. Login runs in a privileged session and starts a less privileged user session for you. Some APIs run in different sessions than you and thus can provide you with privileged services. Window systems export the same APIs as the raw display and audio - you can run an application with or without one. You can run a window system in a window. Request to open a new window may succeed or fail gracefully, leaving you with only your root window. WASM interpreter with access to APIs and privilege control to run untrusted remote applications the way you access web sites today. They can access local APIs and their host APIs with different privilege levels. Both native and WASM executables are first class. Makes porting a lot easier. So, how does this replace systemd and init systems? What we use servers for today gets replaced by API providers. API dependencies are part of the metadata in applications, and an application will not start if there is no provider available for an API. The providers will be started on demand when the applications ask for them and may be started *before *they are asked for, simply going by the application list and the session owner's previous usage. API providers can be retired when the API is released, or not, again depending on usage information and the application list. API providers may be local or remote depending on usage data and the necessary resources - if you use one a lot and it is not bound to a resource with a specific location, the system can start an API provider locally, but some API providers may rely on stronger or more specialized compute resources than your local CPU. Migration of APIs that own resources is not supported - you can close one and open another. Bruce On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 1:41 PM J.R. Hill wrote: > There are a few things that need to be in place for a smooth transition. > > For general trust in the project... > > 1. the init system itself should be maintained by more than a single human. > 2. the maintainers should be willing to respond to a large audience. (If a > project is used widely across distributions and is critical to operation > and security, it'll attract attention from armies of newbies and large > cloud corporations alike.) This means there needs to be an ability to move > slow (maintain backwards compatibility) and
Re: [DNG] Be prepared for the fall of systemd
On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 7:01 AM wrote: > Do you have some pointers to thoose experimental operating systems > so I can get a taste of what you are talking about ? This goes way back. Mach did lightweight messaging and more (and survives in MacOS, I think), Plan 9 did the graphics API == window system API. I haven't followed more modern experimental operating systems. Mostly you don't hear as much about them these days, I think a lot of researchers use an existing Open Source OS as a base for some specific facility. Thanks Bruce ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
