Re: [DNG] Redhat EEEs CentOS?
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 23:47:39 -0800 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting vmlinux (vmli...@charter.net): > > > Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? Shocking but not surprising. Even more > > reason for Devuan to exist. > > > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/centos-shifts-from-red-hat-unbranded-to-red-hat-beta/ > > > Plenty of blood being spilled over there. Think there are a couple of the original CentOS devs who I remember proudly being given their Red Hats who probably now feel a dagger sticking out their back. This caught the eye. http://crunchtools.com/before-you-get-mad-about-the-centos-stream-change-think-about/ Various interesting comments: http://crunchtools.com/before-you-get-mad-about-the-centos-stream-change-think-about/#comment-647540 But as someone pointed out RH revenue in 2018 was like $3.4 billion So the reasoning is far from clear cut - it isn't really all about cash in the strictest sense (it will be there somewhere clearly). Anyone see the dark hand of IBM being waved in the background? Want a more cutting edge rapid release version for their Cloud stuff? Fedora -> CentOS -> RH ? "it’s not about making money, it’s about out growing your competitors" (and dumping a few 'free loaders' I guess) You need to be pushing the curve in that case. CentOS did not fit. I have to say personally I was surprised CentOS agreed to be 'bought out' in the first place, and then always expected this day would come. That air of inevitability. Hey ho. pgpT47YzicuZ1.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Firefox and its forks are losing the power of add-ons.
On 3 December 2020 09:12:07 CET, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: >Dear All, > >If you have other solutions which I did not think of, please suggest >them. Thanks for taking the time to reply. > "Firefox" has lost it. Hey ho. For individual browsers: Ublock Origin. UMatrix if you want to be savage. For networks: Get a Raspberry Pi and PiHole (is there a Devuan version??). Just forward DNS queries through that. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...
On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 15:03:22 +0100 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > ..how does the guys running Slackware, and the *BSDs do this > certbot thing, and how does it work with e.g. Tor? Probably Dehydrated or a.n.other system > ..meanwhile, I too lean towards Ian's contrarianism: > http://michael.orlitzky.com/articles/lets_not_encrypt.xhtml That has plenty of criticisms - rightly - but no solutions. You can't change anything without an alternative solution. Just saying "I am not playing doesn't" cut it. And if businesses are getting marked down by not being https, they'll go with whatever gives them the best Gobble ranking. I tend to believe the main thing was getting people off their own email systems that Gobble couldn't read, and on to their cloud infra, which they could. To do that they needed to try and convince people they were the good guys (we protect you from spying governments with https) whilst getting themselves a nice big data store. See some comments say by Paul Wouters on Libreswan lists as to Gobble and their attitude towards VPNs especially WRT the extremely poor level of VPN encryption in Android. "They expect you to use https, and not bother with VPNs" As you rightly say, all for Gobbles benefit. Shhhhhh - remember those days when they were the good guys? I'm off to play Gopher :-) -- John Crisp pgpUR0jOKzAEm.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] snapd in Devuan? Dependency on systemd...
On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 01:09:06 +0100 Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: > Certbot has removed support of certbot-auto for Debian-based systems > (cf. Just use dehydrated. No systemd (the Devil) or snapd (son of the aforementioned Devil) dependencies. Runs on pretty well anything. https://github.com/dehydrated-io/dehydrated Why wouldn't you? pgpAMU54fA0Rl.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:29 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > > [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management > folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > Thanks ;-) I have an alter ego that is on some lists as this ego (!) got banned some years back. I have had recent chats with one or two there who appraised me of a few things. > > The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] > > Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the > problem is: revenue model. > Always boils down to filthy lucre. > Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. When all is said and > done, Mozilla Foundation is an appendage of Mozilla, Inc., which as a > for-profit corporation is bound to a depressing pursuit of quarterly > earnings targets as a primary objective. From the corporate > perspective, Thunderbird development resources are deadweight, a > dispensible community sponsorship that earns nothing. > Yes, as a corporate project TB was a drag to them. However, TB still receives a not insignificant income, almost exclusively from donations. The alleged reason for going corporate was they could "do things they couldn't as a NfP" Hmmm. Quite frankly the only thing I can see they can have is shares, dividends and pay people more money. I guess they are trying to establish themselves as a corporate entity to appeal more to businesses and be more 'business like' with support contracts or whatever. It'll probably end up as more jobs for the boys., he said cynically. The TB council is controlled by a few loyal MZ supporters (because it is EXTREMELY hard for anyone to actually get elected due to the qualifying requirements, and voters qualifying requirements), and the whole thing is tightly controlled by MZ themselves, despite them saying TB is a separate entity. It was MOZILLA employees that did the recent banning. Go figure. Note I believe there is a side story to be told about the recent Enigmail push but am not at liberty blah blah. Hey ho - what do I know? :-) pgpN6tyFbJFUl.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:15:47 + Mark Rousell wrote: > On 25/10/2020 18:20, Ludovic Bellière wrote: > > Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path > > Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and > > everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the > > [tb- planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: > > > > 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, > > Thunderbird-related work done.* > > 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get > > satisfaction about their concerns.* > > > > I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and > > future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to > > answer you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. > > Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other > Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to > tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views > despite (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning > and other TB-related mail lists/groups. > > One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as > I can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of > the leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have > any influence, benefit or use whatsoever. > +1 to this and your previous comments about TB, developers, governance, and the insane blind leap to follow Firefox and destroy the plugin system, which for many was the best thing about TB. TB is really becoming like an Electron app for Firefox - just a browser with a few bells and whistles - you may as well use webmail. The greatest irony is them wanting to ban all popups and 'use tabs' for everything grr. Shame they allow little balloons and dropdowns and notifiers and loads of other nonsense everywhere in browsers, and allow webdevs to throw whatever js boxes they like on screen. Hypocrisy IMHO. Yes, forking the browser side would have been difficult for maintenance, but they made no attempt to have any sort of reasoned debate about any of it - "our way or the highway". TB Planning is heavily censored and any opinions that contradict the leaders are shot down rapidly. Council members have to sign an NDA that has not been published (why DID they need to make it TB corporation and for not a NFP?). Mozilla themselves are ban any TB dissent - including just banning a well known community member from ALL online SM channels relating to Mozilla, even apparently ones they do not control, for some apparent minor misdemeanour they didn't like.. the place has gone properly batsh1t mad. The problem is decent alternatives are not great - it is the only reason they still hold the share that they do. But quite simply, without the plugins we may as well just use Evolution. As such we will stay on an old version with working plugins doing what we need and will do for the foreseeable future. It does all WE need. We'll move on when we change things in due course. Personally I would not now recommend TB under any circumstances, having previously recommended it since I started using at around v1. No wonder the world is moving to instant messaging - and they are so keen to get their 'chat' app in there. Sad times indeed. pgpGByocXfEFT.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Current state of VPN software ?
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:36:18 -0700 Richard Doyle via Dng wrote: > Good timing! WireGuard is in the kernel and version 1.0.0 has been > released. Devuan doesn't provide a package yet, but it is pretty easy > to build and install from source. I've been running it for months, > replacing OpenVPN Tunnels. WireGuard is much faster, and I found it > easier to configure and debug. > > As I understand it, FreeSwan is defunct. but OpenSwan is around. Can't > comment on it, as I haven't used IPSEC VPNs > For server to server (the original question) OpenVPN is a doddle once you know how to set it up. Just a pain because of certificates, which is where most people struggle. Libreswan is the most advanced of the *swans encryption wise - their defaults encryption levels are pretty high with IPSEC v2 (don't use v1). Devs are pretty helpful too. Be interested to see their comments on encryption levels and security compared to wireguard. https://download.libreswan.org/binaries/README.debian Can't see a Devuan package available but it used to be fairly easy to build from source. You can use passwords (if you really have to), RSA Sigs or certificates. I've used it for years for site to site tunnels as it is pretty stable. Can't comment on performance as it has never been a major factor for me so never really tested it. I suspect encryption levels have a fairly large part to play in this, but I am no cryptographer. All IMHO :-) B. Rgds John pgpSDH2f5dFZ_.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Is anybody using Discord for virtual get-togethers in Devuan?
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 13:24:43 +1100 wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote: > Anyone have experience on how it compares to Mattermost or Zulip? I believe it has quite a lot of refugees from Slack, Mattermost, Hipchat etc You can sign up for a online trial free for a period I think, or grab a docker copy, and try it for yourself It has its faults and foibles but I have been using it in a couple of low volume situations for a good few years now (about version 0.20?) It does use Mongo for the DB and there is some stuff in the foros & github about the licencing for it (can't remember where now) Online chat/video is a crowded space with everyone jostling for position and a slice of the action because it will be the eventual death of email, and all the big players want to control that. They will buy up most smaller startups to stop any competition. I believe the big battle currently is Teams v Slack. M$ are bleeding them dry, because they can. Rocket are pretty Open Source - the boss is a big believer. Anyways, try it. But as ever, Caveat Emptor !! pgpJHR0NfgMsI.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Is anybody using Discord for virtual get-togethers in Devuan?
On 20/03/20 13:38, Steve Litt wrote: > Is anybody using Discord in Devuan for virtual get-togethers? > Discord. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Horrible spyware. We use Rocket.Chat internally - it'll run on node or in a docker container (I won't mention snaps...) - It's a 'Open Source Slack alternative' https://rocket.chat https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat They are pretty good with their privacy - you can even run it completely disconnected from the interwebs if required. Not too heavy on hardware (depends on number of users ) It connects happily via jitsi for video conferencing - either use online jitsi or host your own. Think buried in that lot somewhere is screen sharing support too. (You can also use Big Blue Button I think) It also has a Livechat widget for your website so you can chat to incoming visitors, and even conference with them too. Still under heavy and rapid development, but not a bad piece of kit all in all and worth a look. No, I have no commercial involvement. I just have helped out on and off for a few years. Rgds John signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FF now defaults to DNS-over-HTTPS for US
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 17:08:28 -0600 goli...@devuan.org wrote: > Just great! So how can we keep off this cloudflare thing? > > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/25/mozilla_turns_on_dns_over_https_by_default_for_usa/ > > Rick Moen? Anyone? > > I am quite happy running unbound locally thanks to Rick and > Centurion_Dan etc. > > Thoughts? https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-dns-over-https "do the following: Type about:config in the address bar and press Enter. A warning page may appear. Click Accept the Risk and Continue to continue to the about:config page. Search for the preference: network.trr.mode to confirm that the value is either 0 (off) or 5 (off by user choice). " All mine were done a while back - just have to keep watch that Mozilla don't override this. However this exists: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/configuring-networks-disable-dns-over-https pgpD_dhncoud7.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 13:36:48 +0100 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100, Denis wrote in message > <20191122095546.fro7htitriq47xsx@reflex>: > > > > > And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian > > Jackson > > ..a direct link to Ian's vote proposition nr.4 and a direct link > on where to vote for that, would be helpful, there are 245 messages > "in the air" at https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ now. > I think it may be this but happy to be corrected https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/msg00063.html pgpG281ldNwu3.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] I wrote IBM
On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 19:34:15 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > > Bothering? > > It's their job to receive letters from the public, and any half way > smart business values feedback. > I was going to reply to some of the other negative replies to Steves mail, but I then decided that just fuels the problem. Suggesting better wording for a letter, rather than trying to piss off the writer, is a much more grown up way of doing things. Quite frankly if some of the hot air round here was spent on good PR and lobbying instead of talking nonsense, hyperventilating and in-fighting, Devuan might be doing somewhat better. People must wonder sometimes when they read this list. I frequently do. Getting Devuan used more and trying to beat systemD needs tackling from LOTS of angles, not just one. Good code alone won't cut it. The effect of saying "it's all pointless" is just giving in, and you may just as well let the corps take over government, and forget Devuan. Steves letter may have no effect, but there is nothing criminal in his actions. Of course companies don't want you to contact them. The guilty don't want to answer awkward questions. Does that mean you let them get away with it?? Yes, they are run for the shareholders, but many of them are pension funds, which is YOUR money. You have a voice. Use it. This should be part of a wider campaign to lobby companies, and governments too, and should work with other areas in the Devuan org to promote Devuan. Try and find some professional PR people to help. That's the way the companies work, because it works. That's what you should be doing too. Rgds John Crisp pgpXuHazKSjTz.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 11/04/19 09:21, KatolaZ wrote: > In the last ten days all those threee things have materialised, to > different degrees. Hence, I have decided to withdraw from Devuan and > will now take an indefinite leave from the project. > Tragic. I tried hard not to waste too much time reading the ridiculous comments on the April Fool. It was exasperating and pathetic, and a terrible example for others to watch. A lesson in thinking twice before you post in public. To all those who kicked off, you really were Fools, and you have reaped what you sowed. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas. So who out of the complainers is going to pick up the slack that they have caused? Volunteers take one step forward. #devastated signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
