Re: [DNG] Microsoft azure and devuan
On 20/05/2022 18:31, Peter Duffy wrote: > Quite a long time ago, I mentioned that I'd been tasked with upgrading > some linux VMs running under Microsoft Azure Very good! -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On 25/11/2021 22:57, Steve Litt wrote: > Like I said in 2014, > they won't quit until the cat command requires systemd. They won't stop until SystemD is in the kernel, such that Linux unavoidably is SystemD. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On 26/11/2021 16:55, Peter Duffy wrote: > Maybe the problem with the car analogy is that it's only really > applicable to end-user computers - desktops and laptops. For servers, > the analogy would need to be extended to buses and HGVs. In those cases, > where many people rely on the availability and punctuality of the > vehicles, the drivers and pilots don't fix the problems themselves, and > also don't go back to the manufacturers to get problems fixed: the > companies which run the vehicles have teams of engineers who can strip > the thing down to components and reassemble it. I think this is a very useful and much improved metaphor. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?
On 19/08/2021 17:29, Antony Stone wrote: > On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 13:22:06, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > >> Install "equivs" and build a dummy package. >> >> Nik > Once again, thank you indeed for introducing me to this tool. > > One tip that I'll pass on in case other people here find it useful: > > [...] This is very useful. Thank you. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Microsoft: Really?
On 12/08/2021 03:49, Steve Litt wrote: > Check out this article: > > https://www.computerworld.com/article/3628169/windows-365-costs-how-much.html > > Windows 365... > > So let me get this straight: [...] > Of course the real effect of this is that Mocrosoft takes possession of > every single bit of your computing experience, making it extremely hard > for you to ever escape. Yup, all that and you still need some sort of computing device to connect to their cloud service. It's poor value and massively increases attack and risk surface. (I say "risk" since there are risks inherent in this that need not be part of an attack by unauthorised outsiders). But, despite all that, it's going to be massive. More and more people will want it for... "convenience" or something similar. Convenience wins, even when it's no really very convenient. As I see it there are only two USPs for a service like this: (1) It's accessible for anywhere you have Internet access and a computing device. (2) It is (I presume) backed up so you don't need to run your own backups... well, in theory. In practice that should not be relied upon but people definitely will give up doing their own backups due to systems like this. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..maybe webmin?, was: Cockpit removal might make sense
On 15/06/2021 10:42, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > > If projects decide to throw in their lot with systemd > (as in not accepting patches to cater to non-systemd setups), I think > they deserve to be plonked by distributions that don't support systemd. As a matter of interest, can anyone say how often this is happening? -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Multiple resignations from Freenode's staff ??? New drama shake the opensource
On 20/05/2021 09:03, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: > I do hope that change does not hurt IRC use more than it was already, > albeit I somehom know it does/will. > IRC is not popular amongst the masses anymore, as the general > population get more and more individualistic, and does not think nor > care about principles behind the products they seek using, usually > proprietary, free of charge or not. I don't think it will harm IRC: The people who use IRC will know and carry on and the people who don't use IRC won't know and won't care. It seems to me that IRC is dying out (at least in terms of proportion of Internet users who use it) because there are so many alternatives. It is being out-competed, not because the alternatives are 'better' but simply because it has no single back to make it interesting and exciting. The network effect is at work: The people and content that people want are more and more often on different, newer IM/social environments. Also I don't think that the general population is become more individualistic. It's just that the Internet is a mass market today and so it reflects people in general. The Internet is no longer a minority interest, as it was back when IRC was in its heyday. And people in general are not very interested in principles (certainly not if it takes effort!); they are just consumers. They consume what is most interesting and/or easiest for them. We know that social media of all sorts is massively popular and so clearly people in general can't be all that individualistic: People love to share stuff and socialise on the Internet. But it's not about about principle to most of them; it's just about consumption, entertainment and fun. People even forget principles such as privacy and common sense when consuming social media. Complex principles (such as software freedom, privacy, and so on) will always be of conscious interest only to a minority of the people in general. Regrettably so. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 27/10/2020 22:47, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > > [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management > folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > >> The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] > Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the > problem is: revenue model. > > Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. Yes, this was certainly, as I understood it, an issue at the time that Thunderbird was cut loose. Mozilla was described as "paying a tax to support Thunderbird". At the time, I seem to recall (from mail list discussions) that one of the things that the then Thunderbird council had to sort out with Mozilla was the proportion of donations that came in via Thunderbird-related links and was thus due to Thunderbird. However, things do seem to have been sorted out. According to recent statements on tb-planning, MZLA Corp (the corporate owner of Thunderbird) now has around 15 employees! That's some real money there. Presumably the income that allows for 15 employees is derived partly from donations and partly from Thunderbird's own commission income from email signup links. One might cynically observe that now it seems that money is there, Thunderbird is back in the Mozilla fold. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Well said to all of that. On 26/10/2020 17:10, John Crisp via Dng wrote: > > (why DID they need to make it TB > corporation and for not a NFP?). As far as I am aware, this question has not been answered in public (although it could simply be that it was the least-friction way forward). The corporation now has about 15 employees (according to statements on tb-planning) and so there is not-insignificant income coming in now. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 25/10/2020 18:20, Ludovic Bellière wrote: > Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path > Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and > everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the [tb- > planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: > > 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, > Thunderbird-related work done.* > 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get > satisfaction about their concerns.* > > I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and > future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to answer > you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views despite (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning and other TB-related mail lists/groups. One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as I can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of the leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have any influence, benefit or use whatsoever. I understand the direction that the current leadership of the Thunderbird project is taking and their reasons for it and I do not agree with them, neither in substance nor in operational style. I do not think that Thunderbird will benefit overall in the longer run with the current direction. I understand and appreciate the difficulties that a project such as Thunderbird (with a lot of legacy code) faces but understanding both the difficulties and the leadership direction and style do not mean that I agree with them. For these (and other) reasons, I still read all of the Thunderbird-related mail lists but no longer contribute or comment to them. As I said in my earlier message, I am sticking with Thunderbird only until I can identify a better alternative. It would be churlish of me to claim that nothing that the current project is doing is of value and so I say no such thing (i.e. some work undoubtedly will be of positive benefit) but, all the same, I do not think that Thunderbird as a fully featured thick mail client has a secure future as things now stand. And so I am looking for viable alternatives for both myself and my clients. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 25/10/2020 06:33, Simon Walter wrote: > On 10/25/20 7:20 AM, Mark Rousell wrote: >> >> The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its >> old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on the new >> Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. > > Yes, I understand the reasons. They may make sense for FF. Though, I > don't know if they apply to TB. I do not think they make sense for Thunderbird. Thunderbird was in effect railroaded into it because it cannot part ways with whatever the Firefox project does with Gecko (or whatever it's called now). I view this as a bug, not a feature. I understand that the Thunderbird project lacked resources to go its own way (i.e. forking Gecko to be able to support their own addon ecosystem) but I still view this as severely damaging to Thunderbird's future and, as such, is a systemic problem. It is destroying one of Thunderbird's USPs (i.e. fully capable addons). > That's interesting and may be a good thing. I should do more > investigation. I recommend TB to most of my clients. I want to make > sure that is still a good recommendation. I'm in the same position with respect to recommending to clients. I think that Thunderbird is still a good recommendation pro tem but I do not see this as a long term situation. I do not think that the current leadership's direction is the right one in order for Thunderbird to be able to maintain unique USPs over potentially competing mail and calendar clients. As an aside, I don't think that Firefox has a great future either. In summary, it seems to me that it's being converted more and more into a Chrome clone and if users have a choice between Chrome and a Chrome-alike then they simply seem to choose Chrome. Firefox has lost its USPs (not least its earlier fully-capable addon ecosystem), and Thunderbird under its current leadership (and, I admit, with its current resources) seems to be inexorably following. So, I'm sticking with Thunderbird for now until I identify a better alternative. The loss of the old addons ecosystem and, in particular, the loss of Enigmail and replacement with a less capable internal OpenPGP implementation were the final turning point for me (together with planned UI changes that are not so appropriate in my opinion for desktop use and with general project leadership quality). The replacement (for me) for Thunderbird might not yet exist but I am confident that something will emerge. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 23/10/2020 15:44, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > >> Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this migration? >> How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB? Any suggestions >> of what could replace it? > Nope. This is the first I've heard of it. One really needs to keep track of the various Thunderbird mail lists/groups for news like this. As someone who watches the whole thing fairly closely, it's actually quite hard to keep track of the changes. However, this deprecation of old addons, which is what is forcing the loss of Enigmail, which in turn is what is forcing Thunderbird to take on OpenPGP encryption internally, has been publicly know for about a year. See here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/pipermail/enigmail-users_enigmail.net/2019-October/005493.html > This is not the first I've heard > of problems with enigmail. Over the past 5 years or so, it seems like it > only works about half the time. And I mean it goes months without being > available for installation. For the avoidance of doubt, this is *not* a problem with Enigmail. Enigmail continues to work fine in earlier versions of Thunderbird. (As an aside, I don't recognise your negative perception of Enigmail. I've use it for years, I don't know how long, and I've always found it reliable and useful. If it was unavailable for installation then that would very likely be a problem with Mozilla's addon server, not Enigmail's fault). The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its old addons (the entire ecosystem) in favour of WebExtension-based addons and Enigmail won't work on the new Thunderbird. Thus Thunderbird has to take over OpenPGP encryption internally. Disclaimer: I say all of the above as a very long time user of Thunderbird who is (a) not happy with the direction in which Thunderbird is now being taken and (b) who is not impressed with the outward appearance of the style of governance of the project. To be fair, whether or not it would be possible to continue Thunderbird development in any other way with currently available resources is questionable. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 23/10/2020 08:04, Simon Walter wrote: > Hi all, > > Yes, I use TB. Please excuse me for living. > > I am wondering how other TB and GPG users are dealing with: > https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:OpenPGP:Migration-From-Enigmail > > From what I understand, I now have to maintain two copies of my key > rings: the regular one and the one *inside* TB. I believe that it is possible to continue using GnuPG with Thunderbird's new OpenPGP implementation using a smartcard. Have a look here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:OpenPGP:Smartcards It *might* be possible to modify this approach to use GnuPG without a smartcard under the new Thunderbird (version 78 onwards). > Somehow this smells like maybe someone didn't read Superiority or they > just hate their users and want them to go away. You're not the only one to come to this conclusion, or something like it. > Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this > migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB? > Any suggestions of what could replace it? I'm not in a hurry to do it. I want to let the bugs get very thoroughly sorted out first. The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on the new Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. > Though, I want to consider alternatives as, I somehow don't trust > Mozilla ever since they became SJ warring virtue signalers. Sure, it > was a while ago. I find it hard to move on, which, like many of you, > is why I don't like it when software changes. Note that Thunderbird is no longer being developed in-house by Mozilla. They cast it adrift several years ago for development by the community. For several years nothing much happened but, more recently, Thunderbird's structure has been formalised in a corporation that is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation. If you think this sounds like Mozilla are still developing it I'd understand but, in fact, it is now separate and has its own governing council. Where the corporate leadership come from I am less than clear. Disclaimer: I say all of the above as a very long time user of Thunderbird who is (a) not happy with the direction in which Thunderbird is now being taken and (b) who is not impressed with the outward appearance of the style of governance of the project. Whether or not it would be possible to continue Thunderbird development in any other way with currently available resources is questionable. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On 25/09/2020 18:21, DECbot wrote: > > I had to double check my config. I never got around to forward > outgoing mail through my ssh tunnel. I'm still using the postfix > relayhost parameter to granting me my ISP's blessing to smtp out to > the rest of the world--and likely giving them a copy of all my > outgoing mail and association it to my account. So my outgoing mail is > not tied with my vps ip, but my residential ISP's smtp server. > > There's also a chance that my outgoing email volume is too low to have > noticed any difficulties besides things like my ISP making changes to > smtp authentication (now only supporting tls on port 587) without any > notification. This address is mostly for mailing lists and forums. Ah, thanks. It does make deliverability easier to send via an established SMTP server such an one's ISP's server. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On 24/09/2020 20:07, Rick Moen wrote: > > DMARC can be made to be a non-issue. ;-> > > :r! dig -t txt _dmarc.linuxmafia.com +short > "DMARC: tragically misdesigned since 2012. Check our SPF RR, instead." > Basically, in my experience, some operators may be assigning a _very small_ > spamicity score to 'rDNS exists but doesn't match': I cannot really > tell. It certainly matters to some extent. But you're right: It is not (usually) just one thing that is an absolute yes/no issue. Matching rDNS, SPF, DKIM, DMARC, good IP address history, TLS, use of IPv6 (and of course not in blocklist and not in dynamic range), all count to varying extents. The more you can do the better. Also, the larger your non-spam, legitimate-content volume, the better your reputation (to the extent that 'reputation' means anything). -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT? ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On 24/09/2020 16:40, Simon Hobson wrote: > > But if you do "accept then bin", you can scale your resources for more > average rates and just let messages sit in a queue for a few minutes when > things are really busy. Given the resources available to MS and Google (to > name just two), that's not really a valid excuse - but I bet it's one of the > ones they use. [...] > I made a point of pointing out that our mail service would not fail to > deliver a message that had been accepted for delivery. What annoys me even more is that they could put incoming post identified as possible spam into the user's spam folder but very often they just blackhole it, so no one knows it's not been delivered at all. It almost seems malicious but I suspect it's just, as you say, down to maximising resources. > > That's the problem - it's mostly invisible. Take the likely scenario - > customer emails to say "I'd like to spend money with you on ..." and gets no > answer. Unless you really have a very compelling offering, the prospective > customer just goes off elsewhere and you never know that you've lost business. > I'm sure that a great many businesses would complain, and loudly, if they > actually knew. You'd think they'd complain but to many small businesses it seems overly complex and they do nothing. I've tried reporting it to some business users of O365 who have had my email to them blackholed and, because they don't have IT staff and the whole point of O365 is to reduce the need for IT people, they do nothing. Oh well. > One thing I can be sure of, if Royal Mail (or whoever your local postal > service is) "just binned" anything that their algorithms decided you weren't > likely to want, there would be more than just strong words about it. In many > jurisdictions, it's a criminal offence to interfere with delivery of a mail > item. I discovered this a few years ago when there were companies sending lottery scams to UK addresses: Royal Mail actually does intercept and destroy certain personally addressed mail! It's focussed on scams they know to be illegal but, yes, they do identify (somehow) specific scams, then intercept and destroy them, with no notification to sender or recipient. > As part of the rundown of services before I was made redundant, my employer > was busy selling people onto O365 - and at no time would the customer be told > about O365's dirty secret, that it will throw away some of your main and > you'll never know unless the sender contacts you via a different means. > Clients were also told that there was no GDPR problem for them to consider at > all - even though anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can explain the > many ways in which O365 is fundamentally incompatible with GDPR, but that's a > different thread altogether. Yes, GDPR does seem to conflict with O365, no matter what the official line is. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On 24/09/2020 13:43, Jim Jackson wrote: > Mostly. Somemail servers do a reverse IP lookup and see if it matches your > envelope From domain. Yes, this is an annoyance. There are two ways round this: (1) Change your server's SMTP From domain to be the same as your static IP's PTR hostname, and (2) ask your ISP to change the reverse DNS to be the name of your mail server. Option 1 is a bit embarrassing if anyone notices (e.g. "host-46462.static.bugtown.myisp.net" isn't too cool as the name of your mail server) but I don't see any technical downside, although DMARC might perhaps be an issue nowadays. I can confirm that I done option 2 in the past to good effect (on Eclipse Internet in case anyone cares) but I've not tried to do it more recently. I suspect that some ISPs might be a bit choosy about this nowadays just in case you're a spammer. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On 24/09/2020 07:30, Dimitris via Dng wrote: > > in my opinion a home connection server smtp+imap/pop will not be very > usable. most rbl's block dynamic addresses so you won't be able to > deliver much... In some areas (e.g. the UK), the better ISPs provide static IPs so this issue is bypassed. > p.s. using isp's smtp seems in contradiction to privacy/keeping mail on > our own hands.. (?) I agree, it does rather but, from what I've seen, the greatest difficulty with running one's own mail server nowadays isn't spam prevention but is deliverability, especially to the larger service provider (e.g. MS/Gmail/Yahoo). Since MS now provides mail services via O365/M365 for a great many businesses, deliverability to these services really matters. Sending via an upstream ISP's SMTP server just makes the issue of deliverability much easier to handle. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT? Re: ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On 23/09/2020 20:13, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > But once you accept a > message with a success status after the DATA stage, you are obliged to > either really deliver it or else bounce it back. It is not acceptable to > send messages down a "black hole". This *should* not be acceptable (and it's very annoying if you are a legitimate sender who has his email swallowed like this) but this method works well for the big mail service providers, who all seem to do it. Many of their users don't even care that, as a result, they are missing mail from legitimate contact and customers. You'd think that customer pressure would force the service providers to act more sensibly but because the customers don't *see* the problem they don't care about it, even small business customers who lose business as a result. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On 23/09/2020 02:32, DECbot wrote: > Since my ISP is the devil and blocks port 25, I'm using autossh to > forward port 25 traffic to a $5/month vps. Do you have difficulty with your outgoing SMTP being blocked (often silently swallowed, from what I've seen) to certain large mail services using this approach? Many cheap VPS IP ranges have a very poor reputation with larger mail services such as Google, MS, Yahoo, etc. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The real reason I like Linux
I am not opposing your central message in any way, but... On 13/03/2020 02:59, Steve Litt wrote: > involves programming, and most people can't > do that. > > Oh really? 12 lines of code and they can't do it (or have a friend help > do it)? Really. There is no way on earth that the average computer user could even come close to writing a program or script and this applies to most of their friends too. Some people might be able to use a macro recorder or a graphical tool that allows them to assemble functional blocks to create a script, but even that much would be too much for most end users in my experience. End users want to use, to consume. Creating/programming is not in their mindset. It strikes me that back when I first got into computers (the early 80s), there was a sense of optimism that the rapid growth of widely affordable technology would result in a new golden era of technical literacy. Oh dear, how naive. Instead, the techies, geeks and entrepreneurs made technology *easier*. We made it so that it was easier for end users to consume, to use what was offered to them. There was no need for the non-technical end users to learn anything. It all just works. Or, if it doesn't work, they throw it away and try something else. And so that golden age of technical literacy has never really arrived. What we have now is billions of consumers and, proportionately speaking, fewer and fewer people who actually know how it all works. Thus, the average user (even the average Linux user, I suspect) is not going to be scripting stuff any time soon (other than maybe by typing in stuff they Googled). -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Hyperbola is ditching the Linux kernel...
Oddly enough, as Hyperbola moves form Linux to FreeBSD, I note that Project Trident (the desktop spin off from FreeBSD-based TrueOS, formerly PC-BSD) is actually moving from BSD to Void Linux as a base! Notably, Void Linux is SystemD-free. Project Trident's reasons for moving to Linux (when many are considering moving away from it) are here: https://project-trident.org/post/os_migration/ -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] VMware segmentation fault
Much as I feel I shouldn't really be posting this here, it could be useful... On 20/01/2020 12:28, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > ..and I have a vague memory of a Microsoft Windows NT version with > a 120 day life span meant for Microsoft Windows NT re-installation > training 25 or so years back, did they make more such short life > versions? Windows 10 90 day trial (which I recall can be extended to 180 days): https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise Windows Server 2019 180 day trial: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-server-2019 -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists
On 28/12/2019 15:02, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 13:16:19 +, Mark wrote in message > <5e0755a3.80...@signal100.com>: > >> That said, the mail list *does* seem to work as Steve wants. > ..you almost nailed it with the above observation, I'd go > "the mail list does *seem* to work as Steve wants", which > is how and why Steve got fooled into doing what he did. It certainly does work as he wants it for me (as I understand his intention). :-) I.e. For senders on DMARC "p=reject" or "p=quarantined" domains, what would originally have been their From address is placed in the Reply-To field of the mailing list post. For me running Thunderbird, this ensures that when I click the Reply button my reply goes to the individual sender's Reply-To address (what was originally in their email's From field), not to the list. That is, as I understand it, what Steve wants. It could well be that Steve's mail client is failing to prioritise the Reply-To address over the From address (whereas mine priorities the Reply-To address over the >From address when I click the Reply button). For the avoidance of doubt, I have separate 'Reply to List', 'Reply All' and 'Reply' buttons. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists
On 28/12/2019 08:34, Rick Moen wrote: > Are you in the middle of submitting a patch to GNU Mailman, then? I'm > expect they will give it appropriate consideration, and give you expert > feedback (which, possibly, the rest of us will appreciate hearing). > > OTOH, expecting Dyne.org people to hand-hack the local Mailman installation, > rather than trying to get it accepted by the developers, and not even > providing anyone with a patch, doesn't strike me as even a tiny bit > reasonable. And, gosh, I'm sorry to say you appear to be so suggesting, > which again, for the second night in a row, makes me a little sad. > > Also, have you bothered to make sure you understand Mailman's > DMARC mitigation, before jumping in? I'm guessing 'nope'. > > (Again, just to be crystal-clear, I myself am neither a Dyne.org > administrator nor a GNU Mailman developer, further underlining my point > about how you would be best advised to address the correct people with > your, um, semi-developed notions, and not the wrong ones.) Chillax, it's Christmas (or the seasonal celebration of one's choice)! :-) Even without having to submit a patch or knowing the full ins and out of Mailman's DMARC mitigation, it strikes me that Steve's request was a reasonable one. It would help for non-standard behaviour to be more clear. That said, the mail list *does* seem to work as Steve wants. At least it does for my mail client (Thunderbird). On a message posted by someone posting to the list from a p=reject DMARC domain:- When I click 'Reply to List' the reply goes to the list. When I click 'Reply' the reply goes to the message's 'Reply-To' header contents which is the poster's personal email address. When I click 'Reply All' the reply goes to everyone mentioned in any To, Cc or Reply-To header. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists
On 28/12/2019 07:01, Steve Litt wrote: > So, if we insist on assisting Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, and their ilk, and > all their users, by incorporating DMARC Really, it's surely not a matter of willingly helping them. It's more a matter of survival at all in a world where they carry a significant proportion (possibly a majority but it's not certain) of the world's email and where they re-make the rules to suit themselves. Just be glad they still support SMTP at all! -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] .NET Core and systemd
I thought this might be of interest/amusement here... ;-) <https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/net-core-and-systemd/> .NET Core and systemd Glenn August 19th, 2019 In preview7 <https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/announcing-net-core-3-0-preview-7/> a new package was added to the |Microsoft.Extensions| set of packages that enables integration with systemd <https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/>. For the Windows focused, systemd allows similar functionality to Windows Services, there is a post on how to do what we discuss here for Windows Services in this <https://devblogs.microsoft.com/aspnet/net-core-workers-as-windows-services/> post. This work was contributed by Tom Deseyn <https://twitter.com/tomdeseyn> from Red Hat <https://developers.redhat.com/>. In this post we will create a .NET Core app that runs as a systemd service. The integration makes systemd aware when the application has started/is stopping, and configures logs to be sent in a way that journald (the logging system of systemd) understands log priorities. ------- -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] backups from ext4 to ntfs - extended attributes and access control lists
On 12/06/2019 22:15, spiralofhope wrote: > Notes: > > https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=13539 Nicely structured notes. Although your notes are all about command line, you might like to add a link for this handy shell extension to your notes: Link Shell Extension <http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html> -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] backups from ext4 to ntfs - extended attributes and access control lists
On 28/05/2019 23:53, Rick Moen wrote: > [1] Last I heard, Microsoft OSes had nothing quite like a symlink, > which was one reason why Cygwin was a bit of a kludge. (They may have > fixed that; I wouldn't know, having avoided running their OSes on my > _won_ machines since Windows for Workground 3.11 in 1992. As an aside: Windows NT has had symlinks in NTFS since Vista, so about 12 years. :-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Make Linux Fast Again!
Or, if I understand this correctly, choose AMD and not Intel. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..wonder if it will work without systemd... ;o)
On 07/05/2019 08:32, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > Hi, > > > ..wonder if it will work without systemd... ;o) > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/06/windows_subsystem_for_linux_terminal/ > > ..there will always be a weak link somewhere, in any chain. ;o) I know you were joking but in fact it should be systemd-free, as I understand it. If WSL2 is only a kernel and a small bootstrapper then whether or not systemd gets installed will depend on the userland that people choose to put on top of it. Devuan is a possibility! Er I think that's how it is, anyway. All that is until systemd gets built into the kernel by Red Hat and everyone else follows suit. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cease battling each other in e-mail
On 24/04/2019 19:11, Rick Moen wrote: > I waited a day, before commenting about this, because I needed to ponder > the matter carefully and not seem as if I were taking sides in > intra-Devuan Project interpersonal warfare. > > Jaromil, I was extremely serious when I said you-all caretakers should > convince each other to _cease battling each other in e-mail_. The only > result is angry resignations, which is about as useful to an open source > project as sawing off your own arm. > > Cease battling each other in e-mail. Jesus Jehosephat Christ, man, > isn't the wisdom of that advice clear _yet_? > > All of you, your good self, Enzo/KatolaZ, Dan Reurich, Ralph Ronnquist, > Evilham, golinux (who's been constructive and blameless as always), > fsmithred, and others I'm probably forgetting, should be acting to end > the interpersonal craziness. Nobody should be forced out, nobody should > be driven to quit, everyone who's leaving in anger should be invited to > a Jitsi conference where you figure out how to bury the hatchet and > come up with a more-constructive way of resolving disputes. (I'm > aware that extremely bad things are happening in private communications. > IMO, you should be working nonstop to not only stop but reverse those > things.) Very well said. The kind of bickering that has been occurring here is, quite clearly, damaging the project. It seems to me as an observer of this project that the bickering is in fact more damaging to the project than any of the contentious actions that have occurred! It would be better by far to JUST STOP the bickering. It shouldn't even be necessary for anyone to issue apologies (although no harm in doing so, and I note that there already have been apologies). But even without apologies, just stop. Draw a mental line under everything that has happened and go on. There is no doubting the technical capabilities of everyone involved and the importance of this project to operating system diversity. > The Jenkins server thing? [...] Treat it as a minor organisational-process > bobble that took > down an important system. Use the event as an opportunity to make sure > you have working failover plans. [...] > The people / communication problems you and > the other caretakers have been failing to solve are an, frankly, an > emergency. Yes, in addition to putting in place some technical plans for emergencies, resiliency and planned maintenance, it also seems to be important to put in place procedures for *communication* between participants (with logging for future reference). There need to be reliable and documented ways to let everyone involved (as well as the public when a public-facing service is affected) know what is happening, including in emergencies. If anything, recent events should be seen as a positive opportunity to get this sort of structure that will inevitably be needed for growth, resiliency and success in place. > Dismiss the circular firing squad, sir. Good phraseology. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 11/04/2019 19:37, Jaromil wrote: > well, one is a member of the caretakers: CenturionDan, who has > ultimately caused Katolaz to drop. It all happened within a private > thread related to the April's fool. > > I'm hereby asking CenturionDan out of the caretakers and will initiate > a public and democratic process for that. I believe those of the > community who want Katolaz back should first and foremost ask > CenturionDan to get the hell out of the caretakers group. I said in a previous message that I am outsider here so I say this for what it is worth:- Please, please do not let interpersonal conflicts or potentially incipient factionalism derail the project as a whole. On the face of it (looking from the outside in), it seems that all this has happened in just the space of a few days. Would it be best overall to wait a bit and take stock before taking any new actions? There is more at stake than this project alone. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Report from the first Devuan conference
On 11/04/2019 19:16, Jaromil wrote: > dear dng'ers > > all those of you who weren't there: you were missed! > > this is a first report about our first conference > > https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference Thanks. It all looks very interesting. I hope that the funding possibilities mentioned will be beneficial. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 11/04/2019 09:21, KatolaZ wrote: > I joined this project much before it was called Devuan, and I have > always considered it a battle worth to be fought, day after day. I > promised myself that I would have continued contributing to Devuan > until the day we would have started talking corporate bullshit, or > stopped trusting each other, or given up on having fun. > > In the last ten days all those threee things have materialised, to > different degrees. Hence, I have decided to withdraw from Devuan and > will now take an indefinite leave from the project. Well, I guess you won't be reading this but I'll say it anyway: Please don't go. Although I am something of an outsider here, watching Devuan's development with pleasure and with hope for the future (particularly the future of open source and operating system diversity), I very much feel that Devuan is better with you involved than without you. Thank you for all your work. It has mattered. If you need to take a break then fair enough, but I am sure that Devuan will be all the better for it if and when you can return. :-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 11/04/2019 12:27, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: > It was surprising to me to read what Jaromil wrote in one of his > replies regarding the April Fools prank. In short, the statement was > that Devuan takes no responsibility whatever the outcome of its use. Eh? That's exactly the same as most freely obtained open source software, including most Linux distributions. In general, unless you have a contract with the producer of some software then their responsibility to you the user of the software is virtually non-existent and your ability to claim against them in case of failure of the software is also virtually non-existent. Even if you have a contract, your ability to actually get recompense from them and their liability to you may well be very limited. If you want and/or need full support and recompense for failure, then by all means pay for a service provider to provide this. Red Hat Enterprise Linux is available, for example, and there are many consultancies whom you can pay to configure and run things for you. But even then, their liability towards you will tend to be contractually limited. > Any invester will definitely make a lot of effort to avoid such a > possibility that can ruin one's business, as confidence is a very > determinant variable in economics. This simple principle does not need > a degree in economics to understand. And yet open source has been wildly successful. It did take a long time for the corporate world (or at least their legal departments) to understand that there was no one to sue if things went wrong but (a) in many cases they seem to have realised that suing would rarely have been genuinely useful anyway in practice and (b) they can, as above, pay for support and contracts if they want them from commercial service providers. The builder of the operating system or the software does not have to be the commercial service provider. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Dng now alters (some) posts to compensate for DMARC antiforgery
On 07/12/2018 07:02, Simon Hobson wrote: > I reckon I managed a better uptime than Microsoft with their Office > 359 service ;-) LOL -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: GPL version 2 is a bare license. Recind. (Regarding (future) linux Code of Conduct Bannings).
On 20/09/2018 22:33, Rick Moen wrote: > IMO, this discussion is of questionable topicality for > Devuan Project, so I'll definitely drop the thread like a hot potato if the > listadmins so wish. I can only agree. I will post no more on the subject after this post. If anyone wishes to continue the discussion with me then they are welcome to contact me directly. I wrote a long message in reply to your message but it seems it is too long for the list's post size limit. I have therefore posted it on a blog I just set up for this purpose: https://genericcomment.wordpress.com/2018/09/21/reply-to-rick-moen-on-dng/ -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: GPL version 2 is a bare license. Recind. (Regarding (future) linux Code of Conduct Bannings).
On 20/09/2018 22:23, Bruce Perens wrote: > Open Research Institute got our first space communication project > transferred over from AMSAT for two reasons: we had an ITAR/EAR > avoidance plan, and the engineering managers at AMSAT (a venerable > organization that has flown some 90 Amateur satellites since 1963) > were inexperienced in dealing with female engineers and were (IMO > unconsciously) egregiously rude on multiple occassions. The woman > engineer in question is no wilting lily, and in general refuses to > represent feminist or women's viewpoints because that isn't her thing. > It may not be a gender issue at all, many men left the organization as > well. By all means, sometimes things go too far. But often not. One example, as you offer here, is an anecdote, not data. > Those who are not on the spectrum may still underperform in human > relations, as we've just heard from Linus. There's the thing, Linus did not seem to me to "underperform". As far as I can see, he performed correctly and in the best interests of producing high quality technical output. If his reactions were sometimes over the top, then the old Code of Conflict surely contained entirely adequate means to deal with it. The new Code of Conduct instead creates an open-ended pit of anti-merit political correctness (i.e. a mindset that is explicitly opposed to merit-based technological progress) that can be (and thus will be) used to advantage the less-capable at the cost of the disfavoured more-capable. > We used to tolerate this stuff, and it cost us in many ways. What "stuff"? Reasonable, honest and blunt feedback? That is surely not something that needs to be "tolerated". It is a specific goal, one which (a) Code of Conduct such as the new Linux Kernel one seek to 'criminalise' in effect, and (b) which all primarily technological projects should surely aspire to. > I am 60 and I /can/ deal with this. I have many things to get done, > and can't afford to have the stick-in-the-mud guys on a project any > longer. If you want to paint yourself into a corner, that is your > right, but IMO it's a poor choice. Have you actually read the idiotic claptrap in the new Code of Conduct for the Linux Kernel? If you are saying that you support such rubbish then it also means that you are reducing the significance of technical merit in favour of happy-huggy feel good factors (which is exactly what the new Linux Code of Conduct explicitly intends), and it seems to me to therefore follow that you are putting your projects at risk. I find it difficult to believe that you really mean this. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: GPL version 2 is a bare license. Recind. (Regarding (future) linux Code of Conduct Bannings).
olitical correctness. > My observation, > acquired over many years, is that those who keep on attacking CoCs want > to preserve their ability to be either thoughtless or nasty in an > offtopic way. I find this generalisation to be deeply offensive and nasty in itself. It seems to me that you are trying to bring anyone who disagrees with you into disrepute by creating a prior accusation and an assumption that they have evil intent, where none necessarily exists. I am against what seems to be the increasingly common reality of CoCs because they often seem designed, as I have observed above, to limit reasonable, sensible and honest freedom of speech and to pander to the lowest common denominator of sensitivity, and thus they harm the blunt meritocracy that provides the greatest benefit to technical progress and innovation. In short, CoCs commonly harm that which we have come to value. The online environment has been an honest and blunt one for decades. For decades, people have taken offence or insult from time to time. For decades, this has worked well! Let's not change what isn't really broken (except in the eyes of a small number of over-sensitive, easily hurt souls). Yes, let's all be *reasonable* with one another. But this doesn't mean that each and every complaint of offence or insult has to be taken seriously or has to require a change in other reasonable people's reasonable behaviour. Reasonableness applies to all sides, not just one side. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: GPL version 2 is a bare license. Recind. (Regarding (future) linux Code of Conduct Bannings).
On 19/09/2018 16:33, observerofaffa...@redchan.it wrote: > The CoC will lead only to infighting amongst the contributors, with > this new weapon wielded firmly in all participants hands. > > It is another example of "looking the gift horse in the mouth" > (Linus telling everyone to [fsck] off is the previous example] > and will only be tolerated by the hirelings. The community > contributors will fade away and the complete corporate takeover of the > kernel will be complete. > > Linux will suffer the same fate as the FreeBSD team (who have lost > half their contributors), additionally morally-questionable code (ie: > code that befits content owners over the user, code that benefits the > security interests of the states over the user, etc) will be folded > into the kernel with a smile. > [...] > The Free Software movement is, and will continue to be decimated by > this industry-wide advance for the next 5 years at-least, as project > after project falls to classic divide and conquer techniques that date > to before the Roman empire. Programmers, though brilliant in their > specific field, tend to be ignorant of even basic human management > practice - and resistant to learn. I make no comment about whether or not there is some kind of intentional plan going on here but I fear that your prediction of where things are headed is correct. The values that helped us all and protected both people and software are being eroded and taken over. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 14/09/2018 12:25, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > I do not know much about this topic but recently i saw the Markmail > service https://markmail.org/docs/faq.xqy maybe this a better search > service? Looks like good software. Could be useful if it's acceptable to outsource archive searching. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be open source, though. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 14/09/2018 03:34, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > Not in my world . . . SNS is banished here, On 14/09/2018 06:49, Steve Litt wrote: > > This is DNG. DNG is much less likely to sacrifice utility for artistry > than the general public. On 14/09/2018 07:55, KatolaZ wrote: > Nope. The pipermail interface is suit for purpose, except for the lack > of a search-content facility. > > Interfaces are not meant to "entertain" bored users, but to help > conveying information :) Yup, I know. :-) I was just saying why it seemed to me that HyperKitty looks as it does. It's clearly intended to appeal to the mass market. I totally agree that Pipermail is a more functional UI style. I'd be amazed if someone didn't write a Pipermail-style archive UI for MM3. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 13/09/2018 15:52, Steve Litt wrote: > Another one devoted to gobbling screen real estate as fast as possible. > > Doesn't anyone know how to make it like this: > > http://lists.golug.org/pipermail/tech/2018-September/date.html > > Easily put hundreds of emails on a page, great for Ctrl+F searching, > even if no built in search feature. I guess the problem is the standard Pipermail display format looks old and boring nowadays. No matter that it is, as you say, practical and quite efficient; new and shiny is in. ;-) The upside is that MM3 is, as I understand it, modular so it should possible for someone to write a Pipermail-style archive viewer to work on MM3. Sounds like an interesting project to learn Python, actually. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 12/09/2018 07:34, Mark Rousell wrote: > By the way, the link I offered ( > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/ ) is the demo server linked > from the official HyperKittty docs here: > https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/mailman/listinfo/dng HyperKitty (along with Postorius) being the archiver and web UI for Mailman 3, in case anyone is wondering what they have to do with one another. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 12/09/2018 07:23, Don Wright wrote: > Mark Rousell wrote: > >> Although it's still something of a work in progress, it seems that >> MM3/Postorius/HyperKitty might be a possible solution in that case. >> >> (That said, I've just tested the search function on the MM3 demo system >> at https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/ and I have to admit that it >> seems rather crude so far.) > > Perhaps [1]this might be a better example of MM3 etc. in action. I believe > the Mailman 3 team has some involvement. > > [1] https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/ The software running there appears to be identical in terms of functionality to the software running on the link I provided. By the way, the link I offered ( https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/ ) is the demo server linked from official the HyperKittty docs here: https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ When I said that search seems "rather crude", what I meant is that if you search for a word such as "core" (i.e. something that might appear very commonly) then you just get a long, long list of hits. You can re-sort the list but there doesn't appear to be any way to narrow down or filter the search results, other than by re-searching using better terms. In short, it works, but a tad crudely. In terms of what I'd have hoped to see, on the search results page I'd have hoped to see a list of mail lists, of authors, of subjects, of date ranges, etc. that I could tick or untick to filter the results. There's nothing like that that I can see. As I mentioned, MM3 and its components are, as I understand it, a work in progress so I presume that search enhancements might well still be coming. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 12/09/2018 06:42, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > Apologies to Mark for not hitting reply-to-list the first time. No worries. > A web-based search function is non-negotiable. I really don't want all > that sitting in my local system. Fair enough. Although it's still something of a work in progress, it seems that MM3/Postorius/HyperKitty might be a possible solution in that case. (That said, I've just tested the search function on the MM3 demo system at https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/ and I have to admit that it seems rather crude so far.) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 11/09/2018 14:55, Steve Litt wrote: > As far as fixing Lurker, why not use a different archive machine? Even > when Lurker works, I find using its representation of email history > almost inscrutable. Every other Mailman-run mailing list has a nice, > easy archive, although they usually aren't searchable. But then again, > neither is Lurker. > > LOL, a part of me wants to make a new archive representer (assuming the > messages are stored in maildir), but I just don't have the time. Take a look at Postorius and HyperKitty, the new web UI archiver for Mailman3. According to the HyperKitty docs at https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ this is a demo system: https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot find in mail archive: was Mozilla and cloudflare to hijack all your DNS requests - for your own good of course
On 11/09/2018 02:37, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > Although your donation would always be welcome, the roadblock is not > financial but deciding what archiver to use and then finding the time > to do it. Feel free to share your suggestions. We do have backups > including all of the mail that has gone missing so nothing is actually > lost. So much to do, so little time . . . Apologies if I've missed discussion on this but, while the list is on MM2, why not just use Pipermail? Although Pipermail doesn't allow searching, it does allow one to download archives very easily and thus run local searches and the web UI is functional, if basic. Or move to MM3 with Postorius and HyperKitty? -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 06/06/2018 05:37, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > I'm speaking for myself. Mark you use the word hate a lot in your > post, that's a microsoft mentality, they venomously hate linux, > yesterday and today. There is considerable venomous hatred from some here for Microsoft, too. Note that it is entirely possible that this hatred of Microsoft is justified. In fact I know it *is* understandable for many things that Microsoft has done. But the key point in this particular context is that it does exist. And so I use the word "hate" in this context solely because it the *correct word*. I say again that I understand this hatred for Microsoft. It's just not an attitude that I share, despite also despising many of the things that Microsoft has done or is still doing (you mentioned Windows 10's spyware and this is one of the things that angers me). Nor am I a particular fan of Microsoft. I simply try to be dispassionate when analysing businesses and business dealings. > No, but if you give your address I'll have the authority's check on > her. :) Hah. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 18:26, Alessandro Selli wrote: > They only did it because they had to. Oh absolutely. I just don't see that as a necessarily bad or evil thing. Necessity is a driver of business and of business behaviour. >> I predict that they won't muck up GitHub. The fact is >> that GitHub needed an investor or buyer > Really? Did they need it? It doesn't seem to me they were looking for a > buyer or an investor, it was M$ who decided to assimilate them. Apparently GitHub has been in been on and off, semi-formal acquisition talks with Microsoft for some time. Did the owners "need" to sell? Not necessarily; there were other possibilities (see below) to raise more funding. Nevertheless, the owners did choose to sell. Note that Microsoft did not just "decide to assimilate them". That's just not how it works. The owners of Github had to *decide* to sell and decided in particular to sell to Microsoft. GitHub was privately owned so it could never be forced into being bought out in the same way that a publicly quoted company can be. > >> and Microsoft has the cash to >> prop it up. They could afford to support it even if it continues to make >> a loss. > GitHub was not operating at a loss: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub#Finance > > As of August 2016, GitHub was making $140 million in Annual Recurring > Revenue.[47] > > 47. Plassnig, Moritz. "GitHub is making $140M in ARR". Medium. Retrieved > 2016-12-19. > https://medium.com/@moritzplassnig/github-is-doing-much-better-than-bloomberg-thinks-here-is-why-a4580b249044 > If I understand correctly, Annual Recurring Revenue is a measure of income or sales (i.e. revenue), not profit. All the same, a relatively young, very fast-growing company like GitHub might well be expected to burn through cash (thus wiping out any profit that would otherwise have been made) at an eye-watering rate. However, that means that eventually new cash has to come from somewhere, such as (more) VC funding, an IPO, or a sale of the business. It seems that a sale of the business was what the owners chose. My guess is that they liked Nadella more than they liked Microsoft and its history. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 17:25, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > Interesting isn't it that this new user arrives to DNG just days > before the github announcement and that most of his posts have been > trying to convince us what a wonderful thing it will be. Can't you > just hear the bluebirds and smell the roses? We get what's happening > and where he's coming from. But I can't see anyone in this camp > buying into this very transparent propaganda. Time to move on. No > fish are biting here . . . Oh good grief. The above is pure fantasy. I've been a member of this mailing list since 25th Oct 2015 according to my records. I've not commented before recently because well... I've just not got round to it and I had nothing to add previously. Sorry about that! I am most certainly NOT trying to "convince us what a wonderful thing it will be". As I said before, I just don't blindly hate Microsoft outright. You are reading way more into my comments than is really there. I hear no bluebirds and I smell no roses. Nothing is certain in business, so the GitHub purchase could well all go wrong. In short: I have nothing to do with Microsoft or anyone associated with them. I have no "very transparent propaganda" of any sort to pass on. For what it's worth, if you search around you'll find me commenting on other mail lists from time to time going back many, many years. Is anyone going to ask me if I've stopped beating my wife yet? ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 19:18, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > Am Dienstag, 5. Juni 2018 schrieb Mark Rousell: >> [...] >> In short, Microsoft isn't a killer. It's a business. Under Nadella, it >> is doing what is rationally best for itself and, for the foreseeable >> future, that is to be friendly to open source and Linux. > M$ killed my business twice. Should I wait for a third time? How did they kill your business twice? No, I would not risk it happening again in your shoes. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 13:56, Lars Noodén wrote: > Actions speak louder than words. They do. It will be interesting to see how their "stewardship" of GitHub works out. >> Their revenue going forward depends on playing nicely with open source. > Their revenue does not yet depend on helping FOSS, but it does depend on > people repeating that untruth that it does. As I see it, it's not a matter of "helping"; it's a matter of working well with open source for their (Microsoft's) own benefit. And in the world we're now in, MS's revenue certainly does increasingly depend on being able to play well with open source. In my view, they 'like' open source now because they have to. > M$ will screw up GitHub both on purpose and by accident. Take a look at > Nokia, Hotmail, and Skype. Politically they can't mess with it right > away while people are watching, but expect the claws to come out within > two years of acquisition after people have time to forget. Time is > needed, recall what Ralph wrote about TTL of societal knowledge. I think it is implausible to believe that they would screw it up on purpose. As things stand (now and for the foreseeable future) that would simply not be beneficial to Microsoft for all sorts of reasons. Remember that they have bet on GitHub as a centre to develop and promote their own open source projects, projects that are absolutely key to getting developers to write for the Microsoft ecosystem (which now extends to Linux, Mac, Android). Nevertheless, I can imagine them screwing it up by accident, perhaps my meddling. They have specifically said that they won't meddle. Time will tell. We'll see. I think GitHub is very different to Nokia and Skype. Nokia and Skype were acquisitions carried out in a different (Ballmer) age and were badly handled. In particular, Skype suffered from meddling and excessive integration with other MS products that alienated its previous user base. GitHub just isn't the same sort of thing. As for Hotmail, what's wrong with that? It still exists in the form of Outlook.com and it's massive, isn't it? Hotmail is surely a success story, or am I missing something? -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 13:57, KatolaZ wrote: > I don't believe in fairy tales any more. For me Microsoft remains the > same rabid dog we have seen so far, and there is nothing you or > Microsoft can say to convince me otherwise. You said it above: > Microsoft is in business, and business has nothing to do with being > friendly. Business is for making profit, and Microsoft has shown to be > able to bring this principle to the extreme, tending to make profit > literally *at all costs*. > > It seems that you like Microsoft a lot. Good luck with that. Maybe > they might also decide to hire you one day or another. They need > enthusiastic ex-open-source-evangelists like Miguel De Icaza to > support their cause. > > I prefer to continue avoiding it actively, as you avoid a rabid dog. As I said a couple of times in this thread, I'm not a fan of Microsoft. I dislike many of the things they have done, from what they did to Stac Electronics to their direction with Windows-as-a-service, and a lot in between. But, despite this, I don't hate them either. It seems to me to be more useful to try to be dispassionate and to objectively analyse what they are doing today and what their direction seems to be. One should never think they are nice, of course. Right now (and for the foreseeable future) it seems to me that they simply *must* play well with open source to ensure their survival, and so that is exactly what they are doing. Is Miguel De Icaza an "ex" open source evangelist? As far as I know he's working at the NET Foundation on open source projects (or so it says on Wikipedia). Xamarin is open source right now. It's a key part of Microsoft's cross-platform developer story and it's open source, it's being developed by Microsoft, and it's being promoted by Microsoft. As far as I can see, Miguel De Icaza is still very much an open source evangelist, despite working (indirectly) for Microsoft. Just because it's Microsoft doesn't mean it's somehow not open source. I understand what you mean about avoiding a rabid dog but Ballmer's long gone. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 13:59, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > > Mark you seem like a smart likeable guy, just like the guys I have met > who work for microsoft and is the reason why I have not replied to > your post. :-) > What I'm saying is simple fact, what I've seen with my own eyes and > what you're saying is meaningless to me. I don't doubt what you've seen with your own eyes. I too have seen Microsoft acting in disreputable ways and I still don't like what they are doing with Windows-as-a-service. I guess that time will tell. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. We'll can only wait and see how GitHub turns out under MS's rule. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 12:18, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > Microsoft paying billions for github and github is operating millions > in the red, this is a I hate linux move. In 2002 microsoft wanted to > kill linux, 4 years ago microsoft wanted to kill linux and today > microsoft wants to kill linux period. A killer is not logical and you > should in no way trust a killer no matter how sweet they may seem, > just say NO! It seems to me that there is no logical or rational reason whatsoever to say that this is a "I hate linux move". Rationally speaking, it seems to me to be far more of a "I want to play well with open source" move. Why? Because it is now in Microsoft's financial interest to do so. This isn't because Microsoft is nice; it's simply that Microsoft is a business that is moving with the times. For several years now, GitHub has been strategically important to Microsoft for its own projects and for its interactions with developers. Developers are, and always have been, key to Microsoft's success and now, more than ever, that means open source developers. With GitHub in the red it makes total sense for Microsoft to buy GitHub in order to maintain it, to prevent it potentially falling into a competitor's hands, to further enhance Visual Studio's integration with Git and GitHub, and to improve Microsoft's image with the open source devs and users. Also, it is now illogical to think that Microsoft wants to kill Linux. Things have moved on. Linux (and Android) are now platforms for Microsoft to sell into and onto. Microsoft's dev products and software platforms (especially Net Core and Xamarin) have a vastly improving cross-platform and mobile story. Instead of trying to beat Linux with Windows or trying to beat open source with Microsoft software, the entire ecosystem has changed such that Linux and open source (primarily in the form of developers and corporates) are now a source of revenue for Microsoft. This is why I predicted that Microsoft will in due course buy a major corporate Linux company. It would fit perfectly with their new business model under Nadella. In short, Microsoft isn't a killer. It's a business. Under Nadella, it is doing what is rationally best for itself and, for the foreseeable future, that is to be friendly to open source and Linux. Maybe they'll change their minds again but it won't be soon. Enjoy it while it lasts. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 05/06/2018 07:19, Alessandro Selli wrote: > On 04/06/2018 at 18:40, Mark Rousell wrote: >> On 04/06/2018 17:02, salsa-...@tut.by wrote: >>> Personally I see this as a part of "embrace open source" strategy to kill >>> open source. >>> >>> # Serge >>> >> I can't see that it would be in Microsoft's interest to kill open source. > Really? Are you kidding? The simple truth is that Microsoft is now making money out of open source (and users of open source software). Thus killing or harming open source no longer makes sense for Microsoft. Their revenue going forward depends on playing nicely with open source. Time will tell. I predict that they won't muck up GitHub. The fact is that GitHub needed an investor or buyer and Microsoft has the cash to prop it up. They could afford to support it even if it continues to make a loss. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 18:18, Andrew McGlashan wrote: > > On 05/06/18 02:46, Mark Rousell wrote:> Anyway, I look forward to > Microsoft Enterprise Linux in due course. ;-) > NO WAY! It's bad enough with RHEL and it's competitors; if I need that > brand of Linux, I would go CentOS... but it will be a very cold day in > hell before I opted for a Microsoft version. I chose the name 'Microsoft Enterprise Linux' deliberately. ;-) In another message in this thread I predicted that Microsoft would buy a major corporate Linux distribution some time soon. In my estimation, the likeliest candidates are either Red Hat or Micro Focus's SUSE business unit. Overall I think Red Hat would be the better choice, albeit probably the more expensive choice, but I suspect either of them would be a good fit for Microsoft's corporate business and strategic direction. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 18:36, KatolaZ wrote: > On Mon, Jun 04, 2018 at 06:06:33PM +0100, Mark Rousell wrote: > > [cut] > >> I don't want to get into an argument about this as I am not exactly a >> fan of Microsoft but... >> >> My statement that MS were the largest single contributor on GitHub comes >> from GitHub's own statistics specifically for *open source* >> contributions (admittedly dating from 2016). >> >> Source: http://businessinsider.com/microsoft-github-open-source-2016-9 >> 'Microsoft just edged out Facebook and proved that it's changed in an >> important way'. >> > You've been confused by marketing, again. By reading through the very > same source used by the article you are citing with an unbiased eye, > it becomes clear that what is happening is that Microsoft's vscode > repository (yes, just *one* repository) is the first GitHub repository > for number of contributors: > > https://octoverse.github.com/ > > This is what the journalist "mis-read" and "mis-cited" in the article > you mentioned. And this does not make MS the largest single > contributor to GitHub Actually that most certainly *does* make Microsoft the largest single contributor to GitHub. They made more contributions than any other single contributor. The fact that it was all into a single repo doesn't change that at all! > only the project initiator who got the largest > number of contributors (about 15000) to one of its projects. And the > contributions to that repo belong to the 15000 contributors, not to > Microsoft (unless the journalist is implying that most of those 15000 > contributors are Microsoft employees themselves, which wouldn't be > surprising at all). Surely the point is precisely that they are all MS employees. The fact that they are MS employees is the thing that made Microsoft the largest single contributor to open source GitHub. You may dismiss this if you wish since it is mostly to one of Microsoft's own repos, and I'd see your point, but the fact remains that this still made them the largest single contributor. > Biased marketing has a strange way of putting numbers together, > indeed... I can only say that the conclusion appears to precisely match the numbers stated by GitHub. To dismiss it because the *distribution of those contributions* is not to your liking doesn't change the truth of it. As I said, I'm not fan of Microsoft but you've said nothing to indicate that (in 2016 art least) they were genuinely the largest single contributor to open source projects on GitHub (yes, their project, but no less real and no less open source just because it is MS's project). -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 17:52, KatolaZ wrote: > On Mon, Jun 04, 2018 at 05:40:15PM +0100, Mark Rousell wrote: >> >> I can't see that it would be in Microsoft's interest to kill open source. >> >> Aren't they the largest single contributor on GitHub? >> > No, they just own the largest corporate account on github. This does > not mean that all the stuff they put there is public, or free > software. > > Al always, their marketing has been very effective, apparently. I don't want to get into an argument about this as I am not exactly a fan of Microsoft but... My statement that MS were the largest single contributor on GitHub comes from GitHub's own statistics specifically for *open source* contributions (admittedly dating from 2016). Source: http://businessinsider.com/microsoft-github-open-source-2016-9 'Microsoft just edged out Facebook and proved that it's changed in an important way'. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 17:01, KatolaZ wrote: > Microsoft knows that GitHub is a goldmine of ideas and cool projects, > and owning it means profiling the free software community with an > unprecedented accuracy. But if most of those projects are open source ones then Microsoft (or anyone else) would have had access to all that information anyway. Owning GitHub does not seem to me to get them anything substantially new as far open source projects are concerned. I do take your point about private repositories but I suspect that very few people will care (including Microsoft). Do they really need to go trawling private repositories for trade secrets? It seems unrealistic to me. > Whatever people say on twitter, Microsoft has never changed and never > will. It's the same company that stole BASIC. The same company that > stole DOS. The same company that put an insane amount of money in the > SCO lawsuit on Linux. The same company which called free-software "a > cancer". The same company that forbids resellers to sell Windows in > dual-boot configurations. The same company who paid a half-journalist > to collect FUD about Linux Torvalds and the kernel developers about > allegedly "stolen" code from Unix. It's the same company. The same > people. The same silly faces. The same mindset. The same aims. The > same methods. The same sour ending. HND KatolaZ Time will tell, I guess. Anyway, I look forward to Microsoft Enterprise Linux in due course. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 17:02, salsa-...@tut.by wrote: > Personally I see this as a part of "embrace open source" strategy to > kill open source. > > # Serge > I can't see that it would be in Microsoft's interest to kill open source. Aren't they the largest single contributor on GitHub? -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 16:14, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Mark Rousell (mark.rous...@signal100.com): > >> To play devil's advocate, what can go wrong? > Autonomy. I really can't see anything different about project autonomy before or after GitHub acquisition by Microsoft. The issue you elaborate on below is certainly real but Microsoft's acquisition of GitHub doesn't seem likely to make any difference to it. > The Void Linux distribution is, according to Steve Litt, currently in > semi-chaos because GitHub, Inc. recognises no other user other than the > founder as having authority over the project's data. If Void Linux > controlled its own software infrastructure with appropriate > collaborative arrangements, this administrative hurdle would be easy to > solve. Well yes, but this is not GitHub's fault (nor would it be Microsoft's fault). It seems to me that if Void Linux had ensured that multiple users had admin access to the project's data on GitHub OR if they had kept regular off-GitHub backups then none of this would be a problem. > As long as they outsource software infrastructure, that infrastructure > runs according to someone else's rules. Personally, I want my software > infrastructure to implement _my_ policies and follow _my_ rules. Oh I agree! This is a potential problem with *all* types of cloud hosting, isn't it. What happens if the provider disappears or if the person with the account username and password disappears? All users of cloud services, be it web hosting, data storage, processing, or code hosting should ensure that (a) they have well-distributed admin access so that the project never relies on any single person to access the online data and (b) that they have a contingency plan/disaster recovery plan in case they need to move hosting. And yes, I suspect most users of cloud services don't think through these risks well enough. But Microsoft's acquisition of GitHub won't make this any more of a potential risk than it is already. Personally I dislike it when people, businesses, or projects move almost everything to the cloud. It really is overly risky to my mind (for all sorts of reasons in addition to the two I mentioned above). But I can't fight how things are: Cloud hosting brings many, many benefits and so I always caution people never to rely solely on cloud services: They should keep their own backups on their own physical infrastructure, they should ensure that there is no single human point of failure, and having to move hosting elsewhere (including bringing it in house) should be part of their general disaster recovery plans in case their chosen service providers cease to be effective. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 14:07, Mark Rousell wrote: > it would even give them a root into the resurgent mainframe market. Doh... s/root/route/ -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
On 04/06/2018 02:01, Rick Moen wrote: > For years, I've been politely telling representatives & users of open source > projects (Void Linux, many others) 'Hey, you might want to reconsider > outsourcing your entire source code repos to GitHub, and consider > instead deploying instead one of many actually open source, self-hosted > workalikes such as GitLab.' > > I'm betting they'll see nothing wrong with outsourcing to a > proprietary-software firm run by people they don't know and have no > reason to trust, based on this news. I'm glad it works for them. > > Did I mention GitLab? ;-> To play devil's advocate, what can go wrong? Protecting a project's Github-hosted code from competitors is of course not an issue since it's open source code anyway. The very worst that could happen (and this is absurdly unlikely of course) is that the new Microsoft overlords could ban certain types of project or charge huge fees for them. But, as I say, this is absurdly unlikely. I suppose that Microsoft could potentially just shut down Github entirely (and use it solely as an internal repository) but that seems ridiculously unlikely too. Or maybe they could claim some sort of licence on Github-hosted code but that is incredibly unlikely (and probably legally implausible) as well. As long as projects that currently use Github are sensible enough to keep off-Github backups then it seems to me that there is no real risk at all. If Github was to become unusable for any reason then porting to some other Git environment might be a hassle but it could be done. So I just don't see a problem with this. It will be interesting to see how Github develops. It could actually work out well. I'd been thinking that Github would be a very useful acquisition for Microsoft in terms of extending the already very handy Git and Github integration in Visual Studio. Perhaps the only plausible risk to Github is if Microsoft extend the Visual Studio integration and somehow make it difficult to use other tools but even this seems very unlikely to me. Improving Visual Studio Github integration seems certain but that doesn't mean that they'll seek to block out other tools or make using other tools more difficult. So, what is the next open source acquisition target for Microsoft? A project doing Group Policy integration tools for Linux might be a good (if rather small) choice. Or more significantly perhaps even Red Hat or the SUSE business unit from Micro Focus. A major corporate Linux vendor acquisition would further expand Microsoft's corporate reach (it would be very appealing to corporates if MS could say that you can have Windows and/or Linux and it all integrates transparently within the Microsoft ecosystem) and it would even give them a root into the resurgent mainframe market. I note that SUSE is into OpenStack in a big way and this would definitely suit Microsoft in the longer term. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd introduces "Portable Services"
On 31/05/2018 16:09, Alessandro Selli wrote: > https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=18/05/30/0147216 > > Mozilla isn't alone in "innovating", sigh! > > "The past several months Lennart Poettering has been working on a "portable > services" concept and that big ticket new feature has now landed in Systemd. > Portable services are akin to containers but different." But who would want to rely on what is, in itself, a non-portable "containers but different" thing? There are portable ways of doing this, it would seem. And how far from SystemdOS are we? -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
