Re: [DNG] Recreational Software, was Re: history

[Patrick Erdmann]

On 09.08.20 02:31, terryc wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2020 00:33:00 -0500
> John Morris  wrote:
> 
> Snipping the Pol, Para and not mentioning Cap.
> 
>> Or like people who still run Windows after
>> decades of failure and breathtaking security flaws, but they just know
>> the next release is going to be stable and secure.
> 
> It isn't just Microsoft, but the hardware manufacturers as well. First
> you have to wait for them to correct 'bugs', then their culling
> of support for 'legacy' hardware and software, which is swift and
> deadly.
> 
> I only maintain a boxen running MS windows for the 'Recreational
> Software', aka Games.
> 
> Unfortunately, despite my stance of buying a copy of every game
> that interested me and  ran on Linux, the offerings have dried
> up*. Even the ability to run those games has disappeared.
> 
> While  Linux has a lot of basic card and simple board games, offerings
> are missing in a lot of types.
> 
> So, I'm left with running MS Windows games or and the intermittent
> suitability of  Wine, PlayOnLinux, Codeweavers, Qemu etc.
> 
> So if anyone wants to share their secrets to being able to run MS
> Win based games on Linux, I'm interested.
> 

There are a lot of Linux (compatible) Games on GOG or Steam.

> 
> I do know that the DOS game Warlords works well in Dosbox, but then
> various people have written a Linux version called LordsAWar. IME the
> dos version is a bit hard to play on a dual screen system as it sits
> firmly in the middle.
> 
> * I think Minecraft was the last to offer a Linux version,but there is
>   also the Linux based Minetest as a development base.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Ascii to Beowulf upgrade - 32% slowdown !

[Patrick Erdmann]

On 12.06.20 13:02, d...@d404.nl wrote:
> On 12-06-2020 12:49, Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote:
>> Hi all!
>>
>> I just upgraded from ascii to beowulf a pretty decent laptop, equipped
>> with a core i7 and 8GB of RAM.
>>
>> I upgraded everything in place: so same desktop environment, same
>> applications, same hard disk... just "apt-get dist-upgrade" essentially.
>>
>> I even kept gcc6 because I had it before and I need it.
>>
>> My test case is compiling ArcticFox, thus something in the realm of
>> Firefox: lots of compiler activity, make, disk access, make and python.
>> But, of course, predominant factor is compilation and linking.
>>
>> With ascii, I was consistently (= not just one build) doing a clean
>> build in about 31 minutes! Quite fast for this small beast and I was happy.
>>
>> With beowulf, this number is consistently about 41 minutes.
>>
>> I say this is a very significant slowdown! Can I gain some speed back?
>> Some setting? some spectre/meltdown mitigation? Having latest ascii, I
>> think I had at least some of the backports.
>>
>>
>> I am wary thus updating to beowulf on slower machines.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>

Just to be sure, try this line as kernel parameters:

noibrs noibpb nopti nospectre_v2 nospectre_v1 l1tf=off
nospec_store_bypass_disable no_stf_barrier mds=off tsx=on
tsx_async_abort=off mitigations=off



>>
>> Riccardo
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> According Geekbench
> https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/12415873?baseline=12415673
> removing mitigation mainly makes a difference on single core performance.
> 
> But i recently did see some Intel firmware update passing at my system.
> So maybe Ascii has not yet received the same updates as Beowulf.
> 
> Grtz.
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] lilo

[Patrick Erdmann]

On 29.05.2016 22:42, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 08:37:08PM +0100, dev1fanboy wrote:
>>
>> Also worth pointing out that lilo is without an upstream maintainer 
>> as of recently.
> 
> I'm happily using lilo to boot my server.
> 
> From a floppy, yet.

And then you realized its 2016!

> 
> The nice thing about a floppy disk drive is that it has as many boot 
> records as you have floppy disks.
> 
> If the boot record is damaged, you 
> just pull one of your five backups off the shelf and use *that* to boot.
> 
> And if you have more than one OS (I do -- different versions of Linux 
> -- if the lilo stuff on disk gets damaged,  I boot the other os (which 
> has its own lilo stuff) using *its* ilo floppy.
> 
> -- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Popularity-contest for Devuan

[Patrick Erdmann]

I never participated at the popularity contest but i think a bit
engagement at that would get us a better status in the debian crew.

So i just installed "popularity-contest" and i hoped thats enough?

On 30.03.2016 11:51, Rob wrote:
> 
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: Re: [DNG] Popularity-contest for Devuan
>> Local Time: 30 March 2016 5:04 AM
>> UTC Time: 30 March 2016 04:04
>> From: dan...@centurion.net.nz
>> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>>
>>
>> >>
>> > Don't know if this is related to the repo issues or something wrong this
>> > end but I get the following from Cron Daemon
>> >
>> > Subject: Cron test -x /etc/cron.daily/popularity-contest
>> >  &&
>> > /etc/cron.daily/popularity-contest
>> >  --crond
>> >
>> > gpg: 4383FF7B81EEE66F: skipped: public key not found
>> > gpg: /var/log/popularity-contest.new: encryption failed: public key not
>> > found.
>> >
>> > thanks
>> >
>> > Rob
>> >
>>
>> what version of popularity-contest do you have installed?
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Daniel Reurich
>> Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
>> 021 797 722
>>
>>
>  
> 1.64-4+devuan.ceres
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
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[DNG] Netman Communication

[Patrick Erdmann]

Hi,

would it be possible to use github comments or a seperate mailing list
for Netman?

Some days it feels like this is the Netman Mailing list and Devuan is a
little sub project of Netman.

I would be very happy if we find a solution for this issue.

-- 
Kind regards

Patrick Erdmann

XMPP/Mail: patr...@perdmann.de
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Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

[Patrick Erdmann]

On 09.08.2015 12:02, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> Mark S Bilk  writes:
>> It seems to me that it's good to have shim programs that satisfy 
>> dependencies of apps on systemd, each shim performing some systemd 
>> function.  Here's why:
>>
>> Suppose there are 10,000 application programs (apps) for Linux,
>> and their developers foolishly insert dependencies on systemd.

These 10.000 apps with depencies could become 10.000 debian packages
with hard dependency to systemd. But if devuan removes the dependency
once they could create a patch and use this patch automatically on the
updated debian package...

debian pkg xy -> devuan developer -(creates)-> devuan package and devuan
patch;
debian upgrades pkg xy -> devuan build system applies the old patch -(if
no errors)-> package goes into testing...


I hope this is understandable. I think in most cases one patch could
uphold for a long time. Please think about that and stop developing
shims :) All those shims will end up in having a systemd fork.


> 
> [...]
> 
>> So using a relatively small number of shim programs in Devuan 
>> will save an enormous amount of work for the Devuan developers,
>> which will allow them to use their time for more productive 
>> purposes -- making Devuan more generally useful and attractive,
>> thereby gaining far more users.
> 
> The end result of reimplementing systemd one-shim-at-a-time won't be
> distinguishable from just using systemd, minus the enormous amount of
> time wasted implementing all the shims. Since you frame this as
> unavoidable, you're thus effectively advocating use of systemd.



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Re: [DNG] devuan LTS

[Patrick Erdmann]

On 17.07.2015 11:25, Stephanie Daugherty wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 1:50 AM James Powell  > wrote:
> 
> There is one thing I would recommend different that the standard
> Debian model. Release only the right amount of packages to create a
> working operating system under a complete installation, and dedicate
> the rest of all packages to Debian friendly build scripts for
> packages of the non-sequitur ranks to keep anything and everything
> optional, as that, optional.
> 
> This might help other non-Linux distributions like kfreebsd and
> killumos (Dyson) formulate strategies for packages.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 

I vote for staying as near as possible to debian. Keep it simple. Keep
the workload as low as possible. Let's quote Lennart Poettering:
"Systemd is open source, so if you don't like it, you can fork it!"

Just change Systemd to Devuan and you have what i want to say. Please
consider this worth thinking about... Maybe we should first have at
least one stable devuan release and then talk about minor changes...

> 
> 
> This is a model that I've had thoughts about for a while, originally
> spurred on by the old Fedora Core/Extras division and refined by
> Ubuntu's PPA model - although for different reasons entirely.
> 
> What'd I'd be interested in seeing is this:
> 
> - A "core distribution" consisting of the kernel, base system,
> openssh(d) and enough of the development toolchain to build packages -
> and nothing else - basically a stable set of core libraries, ABI, and
> userland utilities that could go untouched for a long period of time. 
> 
> - A modular system of self-contained repositories with their own much
> faster lifecycles for everything else, with an emphasis on encouraging
> upstream vendors to provide their own repositories.
> 
> The advantages:
> -  a leaner "core distribution" would be maintainable for a longer
> period of time
> - modular repositories for everything else would keep it from being
> stale - a different kind of balance between long term stability and
> rolling releases. 
> - any LTS for each of the modular components could align strictly with
> the upstream maintainer's LTS strategy, rather than the distribution's
> release schedule, so the distribution would bear much less burden for
> supporting these packages and the "blame your distribution" game would
> be lessened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] vi for beginners

[Patrick Erdmann]

Is this still the mailinglist which is about the OPERATING SYSTEM devuan?

On 16.07.2015 16:39, Rob Owens wrote:
> I noted some people saying they were confused by vi.  Here are basic
> instructions to get you far enough that you can install your editor of
> choice.  I am deliberately leaving out things like cutting and pasting.
> If your goal is just to get a different editor installed, these 
> instructions should suffice.
> 
> Note that many distros symlink /bin/vi to some other vi-like editor
> (vim-tiny, for instance).  I am attempting to give instructions for 
> the most basic vi.
> 
> 1) To edit a file, type:
> 
> vi /etc/apt/sources.list
> 
> Note:  vi starts in "command mode".  You cannot insert text in this
> mode.
> 
> 2) Use cursor keys to navigate.  If they don't work in your version
> of vi, use the keys h, j, k, and l to navigate.
> 
> 3) The "x" key is used to delete.
> 
> 4) Hit "i" to go into insert mode.  The Insert key may also work.
> Typing at this point inserts text.  The delete and backspace keys 
> may not work (depends on the version of vi).
> 
> 5) Hit Escape to leave insert mode and enter command mode.
> 
> 6) Type the following, followed by hitting , in order to save
> and quit:
> 
> :wq
> 
> The colon indicates that you are entering a command.  "w" is short
> for "write", and "q" is short for "quit".
> 
> 7) To save without quitting, use this command:
> 
> :w
> 
> 8) To save as a different filename, use this command:
> 
> :w /path/to/myfile
> 
> 9) To quit without saving, use this command:
> 
> :q!
> 
> The exclamation point indicates that you know you have unsaved
> changes, but you want to quit anyway.  Without it, vi will refuse
> to quit if there are unsaved changes.
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Re: [Dng] What about pulseaudio, avahi, ... ?

[Patrick Erdmann]

In my experience pulse should be optional. It works. Not good but it
does what its made for (after years of development). But avahi is
unstable... Does not work for me. I often had this problem: Network was
not reachable, because of avahi.


On 01.04.2015 21:33, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 8:25 PM, toto titi  wrote:
>> Do you plan to get rid of pulseaudio and avahi as well, or do you just
>> focus on systemd ?
> 
> (I don't speak for the VUA but, from what i've been reading...)
> 
> Systemd is perceived as not freedom-friendly, hence the fork. If
> pulseaudio and/or avahi are similar, in this respect, to systemd then,
> yes, they may be forked in the future. However, the purpose is not to
> dePoetterize but to make sure you always have choice: in what init
> system you want to use, what sound daemon, what zeroconf daemon, what
> ever, etc. So if you don't like , ideally
> you should be able to replace it with something else without
> completely crippling your system. Or rather, replacing it would be a
> no-brainer in Devuan.
> 
> Cheers,
> Nuno
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Re: [Dng] Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 75

[Patrick Erdmann]

I support Nuno.

+1

On 22.03.2015 13:53, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 7:24 AM, T.J. Duchene  wrote:
>> What I said was at some point Devuan will probably have to support systemd's
>> API, in order to support upstream projects that actually require systemd.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Biggest example: GNOME (now) requires systemd. I don't want systemd,
> so, i won't use GNOME. If i want either, i'll use Debian, not Devuan.
> 
> I don't understand this sheeple need to do what everybody else does,
> indded it's redmondesque. If you want that, go use another distro,
> there are hundreds out there who are doing what everybody else does.
> Use Ubuntu, it's fashionable and Debian-like.
> 
> This particular distro, at least it seems to me, was born to *avoid*
> lock-ins like systemd. Or stuff that depends on lock-ins like systemd,
> which makes it [the dependant stuff] locked-in as well. Call it
> another kind of GPL thing if you will, systemd is becoming a UNIX™.
> Back then, GNU came along and created free versions (minus the
> kernel); nowaways, there's systemd™, and here's Devuan.
> 
> So far the most sensible approach of established distros, to me, has
> been that of gentoo (which i'm currently exploring): they use OpenRC
> by default, but you're free to use systemd _if_ you want[1]. *That* is
> freedom of choice and i sincerely hope they won't succumb to the
> pressure. Since Debian didn't go that way (a sad surprise considering
> what i thought Debian was), here's Devuan.
> (I'm not considering Slackware at the moment 'cos Mr Volkerding hasn't
> been specific, he's wait-and-see-ing apparently.)
> 
> Devuan's not at established distro and the purpose has been, from the
> beginning, to avoid lock-ins. You're free to package upstart or some
> other non-intrusive init system for Devuan, i'm sure the VUA won't
> mind, and then there'll be the choice between two "unlocked" init
> systems (implicitly calling systemd an init system is an
> understatement). But i don't see systemd in the Devuan universe -
> that'll completely defeat the purpose. Will avoiding systemd cause
> more work? Definitely. But what's the rush? Release when ready.
> 
> My 0.02
> 
> Cheers,
> Nuno
> 
> [1] 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Base#Optional:_Using_systemd
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Re: [Dng] OT: Linux kernel and the force behind it

[Patrick Erdmann]

On 20.02.2015 12:54, Aldemir Akpinar wrote:
> 
> 
> BTW I think nobody here cares about having Devuan support Gnome.
> The do-it-all DEs,
> those providing their own integrated replacement for every
> application, are, by design,
> opposed to the Nix principles. It is not a surprise that systemd and
> Gnome are working
> together.
> 
> 
> I would say +1 for everything that is written with this e-mail and
> above. However, there's one thing here,
> there are more people running servers than people running linux on their
> desktops, so IMHO devuan should first focus on the servers. 
> So I am quite hopeful about Jude's work that it will solve many of my
> headaches.
> On the other hand, I know systemd is a bigger problem when you install
> anything with a GUI on linux, so I understand many of you guys'
> frustrations. 
> But I think if we are going to sort this problem out we'd better aim a
> bigger audience first.

It is a loop:

1 Getting a bigger audience
2 Satisfy this audience more then other do
3 parts of the Audience become devuan supporter (devs, tester, etc..)
4 more people in the community, more work can be done so, goto 1

> 
> This is my 2 cents.  
> --
> aldemir
> 
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Re: [Dng] Towards systemd-free packages

[Patrick Erdmann]

+1 for this pragmatic approach.

On 14.02.2015 11:30, Jaromil wrote:
> 
> hi Jack, Isaac,
> 
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2015, Jack L. Frost wrote:
>> That's because by default X tries to hotplug input devices with evdev.
>> And evdev requires libudev.  There is a evdev fork that works with
>> libsysdev tho: https://github.com/idunham/xf86-input-evdev
> 
> I'm curious to read Nextime's opinions on this, however to me it looks
> like we are going to keep libudev and systemd's udev around for a while
> in order to minimize the changes in Devuan 1.0.
> 
> While I look forward to vdev's development, I think we should change as
> little as possible here, despite the fact we will keep some systemd code
> around for a little longer (but no systemd daemon running anyway).
> 
> ciao
>  
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Dng] John Goerzen asks, "Has modern Linux lost its way?"

[Patrick Erdmann]

On 12.02.2015 15:35, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:21:00 +
> KatolaZ  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 07:33:51AM +0200, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
>>
>> [cut]
>>
>>>
>>> Whilst I am still utterly amazed with how awesome Linux servers
>>> are, I don't think we will ever get there with desktops.
>>>
>>
>> Agree. That's exactly why, IMHO, we should focus on what GNU/Linux
>> does better, and refrain from gladly and blindly embracing the last
>> miscarriage-piece-of-software "for the good of the large masses of
>> desktop users". Simply put, there are no large masses of desktop
>> users, and IMHO never will be, so whenever something is proposed for
>> the good of these non-existing masses, an alarm should ring in our
>> heads.
> 
> Well said KatolaZ. If they want eye-candy and software that
> incorporates human confusion, they should use Windows or Mac. For the
> person who hasn't resigned himself to being an idiot, Linux has
> Openbox, Windowmaker, LXDE, and a whole bunch of other straightforward
> user interfaces.
> 
> That being said, this *is* the *Devuan* list, and our charter is
> systemd-free Debian, so even though I personally think Gnome, KDE and
> NetworkManager are stupid, we have to provide them.

Maybe not.

Just think about that: If most of "our" Work / Lifetime is spent to make
KDE, Gnome etc. compatible, possibly it would be better to provide _one_
DE and stop support for Gnome and stuff. As you said, there are
alternatives. Maybe we just need enough time to prove the world that
systemd was a wrong decission.

If i read the blog of John Goerzen it sounds like he is not agains
systemd, for me it looks like he does not fully support systemd but he
thinks it was a good decission. But the last two blog entries sounds to
me like he starts thinking that the complexity of systemd is a bad
design idea. (Same as we think).
These kind of errors are good for our community.



> 
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> 
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> Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance
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