Re: [DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[Ozi Traveller]

+1 yes please!

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Rainer H. Rauschenberg <
rain...@wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>
> > ..as a first step, we should mimick qubes-os.org sans systemd
> > and/or pc etc hardware, so we can see and learn etc how etc
> > systemd does what it does in qubes-os, Debian, Tails, Whonix,
> > JohnDoe, etc so we can come up with ways to e.g. prevent systemd
> > subversion of privacy and mass systemd bank robberies.
>
> As a first step we all should focus on releasing devuan. Period.
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Re: [DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 14:05:02 +0100 (CET), Rainer wrote in message 
:

> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> > ..as a first step, we should mimick qubes-os.org sans systemd 
> > and/or pc etc hardware, so we can see and learn etc how etc 
> > systemd does what it does in qubes-os, Debian, Tails, Whonix, 
> > JohnDoe, etc so we can come up with ways to e.g. prevent systemd 
> > subversion of privacy and mass systemd bank robberies. 
> 
> As a first step we all should focus on releasing devuan. Period.

..I mostly disagree, a devuan qubes-os flavor will be a small 
subset of the full release, and a very handy tool for people 
stuck on e.g. Debian Wheezy. 

..but if we are close enough to a full release, go for it. 

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[hellekin]

Arnt Karlsen:
>
> and: https://tails.boum.org/news/version_2.0/index.en.html
> 
> ...
> 
> Change to systemd as init system
>

I think it makes sense for a Live CD desktop distribution to do so, as
it doesn't have to deal with legacy nor with broken upgrades, and it's
not upgrading a running server system with custom scripts.  If it
crashes, damage is very limited.

That said, I'd love to see a Devuan blend that mimicks Tails, Whonix,
JohnDoe, etc. and provides a secure live CD for anonymity and privacy
preservation.

==
hk

-- 
 _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/
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Re: [DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[Rainer Weikusat]

hellekin  writes:
> Arnt Karlsen:
>>
>> and: https://tails.boum.org/news/version_2.0/index.en.html
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>> Change to systemd as init system
>
> I think it makes sense for a Live CD desktop distribution to do so, as
> it doesn't have to deal with legacy nor with broken upgrades, and it's
> not upgrading a running server system with custom scripts.  If it
> crashes, damage is very limited.

When I encountered Linux for the first time (RH 3.0.3), one of its most
impressive properties was that the startup systems was implemented in a
simple, high-level, interpreted language instead of being an
undocumented an undocumented, intransparent vendors-supplied piece of
binary "magic" beyond the each of users of the system the OSes I had
known until then used to use. That this was even possible had never
occured to me.

This means to me, systemd is a generally laughable attempt at rolling
time back to 199x (if not earlier), conducted by people with an
'allergy' against unfamiliar innovations, and I consider the other design
much more sensible. It surely warrants improvement but everything can be
improved. That's called technical progress. "Start from scratch and do
it right this time!", however, is "running in circles", or, as John Kay
(AFAIK) aptly put it

It's so easy
To do nothing
When you're busy
Night and day
Take a step
In on direction
Take a step
The other way

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Re: [DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:11:53 +, hellekin wrote in message 
<56ab6519.8080...@dyne.org>:

> Arnt Karlsen:
> >
> > and:
> > https://tails.boum.org/news/version_2.0/index.en.html
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > Change to systemd as init system
> >
> 
> I think it makes sense for a Live CD desktop distribution to do so, as
> it doesn't have to deal with legacy nor with broken upgrades, and it's
> not upgrading a running server system with custom scripts.  If it
> crashes, damage is very limited.
> 
> That said, I'd love to see a Devuan blend that mimicks Tails, Whonix,
> JohnDoe, etc. and provides a secure live CD for anonymity and privacy
> preservation.

..as a first step, we should mimick qubes-os.org sans systemd 
and/or pc etc hardware, so we can see and learn etc how etc 
systemd does what it does in qubes-os, Debian, Tails, Whonix, 
JohnDoe, etc so we can come up with ways to e.g. prevent systemd 
subversion of privacy and mass systemd bank robberies. 

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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[DNG] ..tails boum boum boum: Tails 2.0 is out, systemd "coup d'etat" against torproject.org?

[Arnt Karlsen]

Hi,


..highlights in: https://tails.boum.org/about/index.en.html
"Tails is a live system that aims to preserve your privacy and
anonymity. It helps you to use the Internet anonymously and circumvent
censorship almost anywhere you go and on any computer but leaving no
trace unless you ask it to explicitly."

..highlights in: https://tails.boum.org/index.en.html
"Privacy for anyone anywhere
Tails is a live operating system, that you can start on almost
any computer from a DVD, USB stick, or SD card. It aims at
preserving your privacy and anonymity, and helps you to:

use the Internet anonymously and circumvent censorship;
all connections to the Internet are forced to go through 
the Tor network; 
leave no trace on the computer you are using unless you ask 
it explicitly; 
use state-of-the-art cryptographic tools to encrypt your files, 
emails and instant messaging."

..highlights in:
https://tails.boum.org/security/Numerous_security_holes_in_1.8.1/index.en.html
https://tails.boum.org/security/Numerous_security_holes_in_1.8.2/index.en.html
and: https://tails.boum.org/news/version_2.0/index.en.html
all go "This release fixes many security issues and users should upgrade
as soon as possible.

...

Change to systemd as init system and use it to:
Sandbox many services using Linux namespaces and 
make them harder to exploit. 
Make the launching of Tor and the memory wipe on 
shutdown more robust. 
Sanitize our code base by replacing many custom scripts."

..maybe a new entry here?: ;o)
https://tails.boum.org/doc/about/warning/index.en.html

..coups are easier to do when you first overwhelm your victim 
with a nice big nasty pile of things they must fix yesterday, 
and then "help" them out... ;o)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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