Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Hi Edward, El 28/9/19 a las 8:42, Edward Bartolo via Dng escribió: With Waterfox, medit and simple-netaid (Lazarus version) running this is my memory use: totalusedfree shared buff/cache available Mem: 3835 8201966 11310482658 Swap: 0 0 0 I recently pushed the newest code of simple-netaid to gitlab: https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/simple-netaid/tree/master/ Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Sigh . . . If only Devuan development could generate the participation and enthusiasm that the silliness of systemd bashing does . . . golinux Nothing silly about it. Devuan was born from systemd bashing. I guess the hint there was to take all that energy aimed towards fruitless projects, like writing to some people at IBM, which is leading nowhere... ... and using it positively, constructively to build & expand projects like Devuan which provide actual solutions to the problem(s) systemd embodies and about which we all agree on here. Bernard Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Since, some mentioned KDE, I would like to recount my latest experience with it. I was having difficulty with XFCE as its touch pad configuration is very poor. Moving the mouse pointer around was like dragging 100Kg across rough ground! The displacement of the mouse pointer across the screen was less than the actual displacement of my finger on the touch pad! Currently, I am running KDE without having issues of bloat, and my system, is definitely not state of the art. With Waterfox, medit and simple-netaid (Lazarus version) running this is my memory use: totalusedfree shared buff/cache available Mem: 3835 8201966 11310482658 Swap: 0 0 0 Needless to state, I did not install the complete KDE desktop. KDE is not burdening my poor integrated GPU as it defaulted to a very basic rendering mode. I do not know whether this is a direct consequence of KDE itself, or the fact, the kernel is having problems with the i915 graphics driver. In fact, the kernel is reporting a buffer underrun at startup. This is a bug that existed several years ago, but recently, and because I use Devuan, it has shown it ugly head again. On 28/09/2019, Dan Purgert wrote: > On Sep 27, 2019, goli...@devuan.org wrote: >> Sigh . . . If only Devuan development could generate the participation >> and >> enthusiasm that the silliness of systemd bashing does . . . > > I gotta get less bad at a lot of things before I can help there :(. > > -- > |_|O|_| > |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert > |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 > -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand the concepts underlying them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Sep 27, 2019, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > Sigh . . . If only Devuan development could generate the participation and > enthusiasm that the silliness of systemd bashing does . . . I gotta get less bad at a lot of things before I can help there :(. -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:19:32 +0200 Didier Kryn wrote: > Imagine a computer with no user, just root, and an empty /home > directory. You plug in your USB disk and, automatically, your disk is > mounted under /home /and you become a user of this laptop/ - no need > to have root priviledge and enter your name and password in the > database. There's nothing precious on the computer, except the > contents of /your/ disk. Err, Apart from the hardware based X-factor authentication, this is nothing new as it existed under *nix and Novell and predates Linux by a few years. The concept later re-appeared as diskless workstations, or some such, at one stage when HW costs were high and networks would choke easily. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On 9/27/19 6:41 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > Sigh . . . If only Devuan development could generate the participation > and enthusiasm that the silliness of systemd bashing does . . . +1 On 9/27/19 10:14 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > What I *do* suggest is that we aim more of our systemd-bashing at the > proper people at IBM, so that maybe we can have a good result. Which > is why I asked for which people at IBM should be written to. nazi-IBM cares only about money.. so, unless you got millions to spend just for bashing a bloated piece of software, good luck with your petition to the "beast". TBH, i consider IBM a bigger threat to software diversity, than systemd. d. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:14:44 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20190927151444.0974f...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:41:01 -0500 > goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > Sigh . . . If only Devuan development could generate the > > participation and enthusiasm that the silliness of systemd bashing > > does . . . > > > > golinux > > Nothing silly about it. Devuan was born from systemd bashing. And > poettering's latest idea is another complexified interaction burr that > will, if accepted in the general Linux world, increase the level of > incompatibility between Devuan and the rest of the world. Which means > Devuan needs even more developers to work around those additional > incompatibilities. > > On the other hand, if poettering fails, Devuan's mindshare goes way > up, because the VUAs were the first and pretty much only to put their > code where their mouths were. > > What I *do* suggest is that we aim more of our systemd-bashing at the > proper people at IBM, so that maybe we can have a good result. Which > is why I asked for which people at IBM should be written to. ..the investors. They wanna know why they should hedge their bet on IBM and systemd etc investments, and how. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:41:01 -0500 goli...@devuan.org wrote: > Sigh . . . If only Devuan development could generate the > participation and enthusiasm that the silliness of systemd bashing > does . . . > > golinux Nothing silly about it. Devuan was born from systemd bashing. And poettering's latest idea is another complexified interaction burr that will, if accepted in the general Linux world, increase the level of incompatibility between Devuan and the rest of the world. Which means Devuan needs even more developers to work around those additional incompatibilities. On the other hand, if poettering fails, Devuan's mindshare goes way up, because the VUAs were the first and pretty much only to put their code where their mouths were. What I *do* suggest is that we aim more of our systemd-bashing at the proper people at IBM, so that maybe we can have a good result. Which is why I asked for which people at IBM should be written to. SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On 2019-09-27 08:53, Dan Purgert wrote: On Sep 27, 2019, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 27/09/2019 à 11:45, Dan Purgert a écrit : > On Sep 27, 2019, Didier Kryn wrote: > > Le 27/09/2019 à 00:25, Steve Litt a écrit : > > > Show of hands: Who ever perceived a problem with using /etc/passwd, > > > /etc/shadow, and /etc/group? They just worked . > > > > Imagine a computer with no user, just root, and an empty /home > > directory. You plug in your USB disk and, automatically, your disk is > > mounted under /home /and you become a user of this laptop/ - no need > > to have root priviledge and enter your name and password in the > > database. There's nothing precious on the computer, except the > > contents of /your/ disk. > So, now we're implicitly trusting $distro to maintain security for us, > and $initsystem to not include a small hook to send telemetry back to > $distro? Sorry, I don't understand (~: didn't we /explicitely/ expect that from *nix, Linux, sysv-init, rc scripts, etc? Oops, I meant "systemd" not, "$initsystem". Sigh . . . If only Devuan development could generate the participation and enthusiasm that the silliness of systemd bashing does . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Sep 27, 2019, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 27/09/2019 à 11:45, Dan Purgert a écrit : > > On Sep 27, 2019, Didier Kryn wrote: > > > Le 27/09/2019 à 00:25, Steve Litt a écrit : > > > > Show of hands: Who ever perceived a problem with using /etc/passwd, > > > > /etc/shadow, and /etc/group? They just worked . > > > > > > Imagine a computer with no user, just root, and an empty /home > > > directory. You plug in your USB disk and, automatically, your disk is > > > mounted under /home /and you become a user of this laptop/ - no need > > > to have root priviledge and enter your name and password in the > > > database. There's nothing precious on the computer, except the > > > contents of /your/ disk. > > So, now we're implicitly trusting $distro to maintain security for us, > > and $initsystem to not include a small hook to send telemetry back to > > $distro? > > Sorry, I don't understand (~: didn't we /explicitely/ expect that from > *nix, Linux, sysv-init, rc scripts, etc? Oops, I meant "systemd" not, "$initsystem". -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Le 27/09/2019 à 11:45, Dan Purgert a écrit : On Sep 27, 2019, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 27/09/2019 à 00:25, Steve Litt a écrit : Show of hands: Who ever perceived a problem with using /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow, and /etc/group? They just worked . Imagine a computer with no user, just root, and an empty /home directory. You plug in your USB disk and, automatically, your disk is mounted under /home /and you become a user of this laptop/ - no need to have root priviledge and enter your name and password in the database. There's nothing precious on the computer, except the contents of /your/ disk. So, now we're implicitly trusting $distro to maintain security for us, and $initsystem to not include a small hook to send telemetry back to $distro? Sorry, I don't understand (~: didn't we /explicitely/ expect that from *nix, Linux, sysv-init, rc scripts, etc? Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Sep 27, 2019, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 27/09/2019 à 00:25, Steve Litt a écrit : >> Show of hands: Who ever perceived a problem with using /etc/passwd, >> /etc/shadow, and /etc/group? They just worked . > > > Imagine a computer with no user, just root, and an empty /home > directory. You plug in your USB disk and, automatically, your disk is > mounted under /home /and you become a user of this laptop/ - no need > to have root priviledge and enter your name and password in the > database. There's nothing precious on the computer, except the > contents of /your/ disk. So, now we're implicitly trusting $distro to maintain security for us, and $initsystem to not include a small hook to send telemetry back to $distro? I'm pretty sure that's one of many reasons many "Windows Users" have been coming over to various distros (and subsequently complaining said distros aren't easy because they're not Windows). -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Le 27/09/2019 à 00:25, Steve Litt a écrit : On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:59:28 +0200 "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" wrote: Anno domini 2019 Thu, 26 Sep 10:13:56 +0200 Arnt Karlsen scripsit: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/25/systemd_inventor_home_directories/ "those who do not understand Unix have to reinvet it poorly" Show of hands: Who ever perceived a problem with using /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow, and /etc/group? They just worked . Imagine a computer with no user, just root, and an empty /home directory. You plug in your USB disk and, automatically, your disk is mounted under /home /and you become a user of this laptop/ - no need to have root priviledge and enter your name and password in the database. There's nothing precious on the computer, except the contents of /your/ disk. I would consider this a nice feature. I simply don't want it to be managed by poetterware, and even less by systemd. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Anno domini 2019 Fri, 27 Sep 12:36:23 +0900 Simon Walter scripsit: > On 9/27/19 7:25 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > ... > > > > Basically, Kmail became dependent on a huge database called Akonadi and > > an always dragging lookup facility called Nepomuk, to the point that > > you couldn't fix things by moving files around or changing a config. I > > bailed out of Kmail, and six months later out of KDE. Today I have not > > one KDE app or library on my system. You definitly wern't. TDE was forked by exactly the same reason. Nik > > The Kmail devs made me think I was the only one who thought Akonadi and > Nepomuk was a bad idea. It was such a nice snappy email client. I told > myself that once they fixed all the bugs, I would resume using it. > However, now with more than just server side mail, but caldav and > carddav, swapping out my server is not a matter of hours but days of > work - really wasted time. > > Here is a meme: Let's rewrite it in Javascript! > Here's another: Pollution FTW! > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On 9/27/19 7:25 AM, Steve Litt wrote: ... > > Basically, Kmail became dependent on a huge database called Akonadi and > an always dragging lookup facility called Nepomuk, to the point that > you couldn't fix things by moving files around or changing a config. I > bailed out of Kmail, and six months later out of KDE. Today I have not > one KDE app or library on my system. The Kmail devs made me think I was the only one who thought Akonadi and Nepomuk was a bad idea. It was such a nice snappy email client. I told myself that once they fixed all the bugs, I would resume using it. However, now with more than just server side mail, but caldav and carddav, swapping out my server is not a matter of hours but days of work - really wasted time. Here is a meme: Let's rewrite it in Javascript! Here's another: Pollution FTW! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
"The Emperor's New Clothes" On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:51 AM Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 01:43:03 +0900, Simon wrote in message > <28fc1904-f197-c028-8877-660e8c7b6...@gikaku.com>: > > > I heard them talking about this on Jupiter Broadcasting. I think it > > was in a previous episode they mentioned Devuan too and talked about > > how some maintainers of Debian are having second thoughts. > > > > As with PulseAudio and Systemd, it might be a good idea, but the way > > Mr. Pottering goes about things is, IMO, quite selfish. > > ..he's prepping ballot machines to run for president? > > -- > ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen > ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... > Scenarios always come in sets of three: > best case, worst case, and just in case. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:59:28 +0200 "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" wrote: > Anno domini 2019 Thu, 26 Sep 10:13:56 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen scripsit: > > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/25/systemd_inventor_home_directories/ > > > > "those who do not understand Unix have to reinvet it poorly" > Show of hands: Who ever perceived a problem with using /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow, and /etc/group? They just worked . If this is mainly for laptops, why the attention to home directories? On a one-person computer, why have data mixed up with config, cache, and who knows what hosted in the home directory? First thing I do with a laptop is create a /d tree, owned slitt.slitt, to hold my real data. Easy to back up, easy to LUKS, survives upgrades and entire OS changes. This just isn't needed. But of course, the real problem is complexification. All sorts of databases to keep all sorts of metadata: Lose a piece and you never get your drive back. Years before Poettering became a public idiot, I wrote the following: http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm#_editors_desk Basically, Kmail became dependent on a huge database called Akonadi and an always dragging lookup facility called Nepomuk, to the point that you couldn't fix things by moving files around or changing a config. I bailed out of Kmail, and six months later out of KDE. Today I have not one KDE app or library on my system. Poettering is making yet another mess. I wonder if IBM gave their blessing to this. IBM all these years has made good money from Linux without obfuscating it. I wonder if wunderkind Poettering is making IBM's new purchase a problem instead of an asset. I wonder what the effect of a few thousand letters to IBM, stating that we don't appreciate the complexity of SystemD, would have. After all, IBM weren't the fools that hired Poettering, and IBM is perfectly capable of making money from Linux without complexifying it to create a monopoly. Here's a nice bumper sticker sentence: "Don't let your computer be Lennart's hobby: Use Devuan!" I think this is a pivot point. If Poettering succeeds in foisting this on the Linux universe, we all might as well buy Apple Macs, because we'll be increasingly isolated until hardware isn't even compatible to us. But if we can convince folks like IBM and Debian that systemd is a messy piece of crap that will make costly problems forever, things might turn our way. And this time, in 2019, they can't pull that "we're using a 40 year old init" crap anymore, because s6 is maintained, top quality, and easy to install. Does anyone know of people in IBM who would be appropriate receivers of letters pointing out that systemd is an unnecessarily convoluted problem? SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 01:43:03 +0900, Simon wrote in message <28fc1904-f197-c028-8877-660e8c7b6...@gikaku.com>: > I heard them talking about this on Jupiter Broadcasting. I think it > was in a previous episode they mentioned Devuan too and talked about > how some maintainers of Debian are having second thoughts. > > As with PulseAudio and Systemd, it might be a good idea, but the way > Mr. Pottering goes about things is, IMO, quite selfish. ..he's prepping ballot machines to run for president? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
I heard them talking about this on Jupiter Broadcasting. I think it was in a previous episode they mentioned Devuan too and talked about how some maintainers of Debian are having second thoughts. As with PulseAudio and Systemd, it might be a good idea, but the way Mr. Pottering goes about things is, IMO, quite selfish. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Anno domini 2019 Thu, 26 Sep 10:13:56 +0200 Arnt Karlsen scripsit: > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/25/systemd_inventor_home_directories/ "those who do not understand Unix have to reinvet it poorly" -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..the D in Systemd is for Directories: Poettering says his creation will phone /home in future ... albeit with broken SSH login
Hi, ..https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/25/systemd_inventor_home_directories/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
