Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
On 07/25/2016 01:31 AM, Simon Hobson wrote: I've come to the conclusion that "fast boot" can be counter productive. SWMBO has a Windows laptop that's quite quick to get to the login screen, but from the disk activity indicator it's clear it's not actually booted - just prioritised getting to that screen. I still haven't trained her to wait the FIVE MINUTES it takes for that disk light to slow a bit before expecting anything to work. As it is, she clicks on an icon and "nothing happens" - or nothing seems to happen until a few minutes later the program actually opens when the system gets the chance to load it from disk. So which is "worse" ? A system that is "slow to boot", or a system that is fast to boot but "doesn't work" when it apparently is booted. Spot on. I remember one company that employed 30 odd Windows workstations and the switch to Windows 7 was a huge training issue in this regard. The Windows admin tried to delay the login prompt for this reason. I'd say, just get an SSD if boot speed is that important. Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
I've come to the conclusion that "fast boot" can be counter productive. SWMBO has a Windows laptop that's quite quick to get to the login screen, but from the disk activity indicator it's clear it's not actually booted - just prioritised getting to that screen. I still haven't trained her to wait the FIVE MINUTES it takes for that disk light to slow a bit before expecting anything to work. As it is, she clicks on an icon and "nothing happens" - or nothing seems to happen until a few minutes later the program actually opens when the system gets the chance to load it from disk. So which is "worse" ? A system that is "slow to boot", or a system that is fast to boot but "doesn't work" when it apparently is booted. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:27:09 +0200 Jaromil wrote: > On Sun, 24 Jul 2016, KatolaZ wrote: > > > This boot-time-final-quest is just BS, IMHO. > > yes, I think we all agree on that. But it was the stick we were beaten > on in the early days and the fact is not even proving to not be legit > says a lot about the bullies we were up against. And in fact it was true in some cases. I had a systemd VM that booted in 2 seconds, while all my non-systemd VMs were booting in 6 to 9 seconds. But of course, none of these VMs needed to DHCP resolve with Network Manager. What is that, 20 seconds? Add in unskilled implementers and systemd's propensity to start hundreds of processes, and pretty soon it takes some serious time to boot, if you count logging in, which you must, because the way they do things some things can't be completed til login. SteveT Steve Litt July 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Le 24/07/2016 11:27, Jaromil a écrit : >This boot-time-final-quest is just BS, IMHO. yes, I think we all agree on that. But it was the stick we were beaten on in the early days and the fact is not even proving to not be legit says a lot about the bullies we were up against. but you are right, we may just be elegant and ignore now. Noblesse oblige :^) That's the proper attitude. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Hi, KatolaZ wrote: << On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 05:17:51PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 23/07/2016 17:14, Jaromil a écrit : > >yes is another occasion for rejoicing for all of us :^) and I find > >this a very interesting point since most systemd arguments talk about > >"booting times" but here is really about "login times". > > Devuan might be faster just because Slim starts faster than Gdm3, > without relation to systemd/sysvinit choice. > I must disagree on this, since my tests on a rpi3 suggest the same, i.e. Raspbian Jessie (with systemd) is slower on boot than Devuan, with the same configuration, since the second one was just an upgrade to Devuan. >> So, the extra boot time required was NOT due to having GDM3 loading. -- Those who abuse me will be banned immediately from my email account. Here, I am communicating with supposedly intelligent adults who are responsible for their actions. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016, KatolaZ wrote: > This boot-time-final-quest is just BS, IMHO. yes, I think we all agree on that. But it was the stick we were beaten on in the early days and the fact is not even proving to not be legit says a lot about the bullies we were up against. but you are right, we may just be elegant and ignore now. Noblesse oblige :^) ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 05:17:51PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 23/07/2016 17:14, Jaromil a écrit : > >yes is another occasion for rejoicing for all of us :^) and I find > >this a very interesting point since most systemd arguments talk about > >"booting times" but here is really about "login times". > > Devuan might be faster just because Slim starts faster than Gdm3, > without relation to systemd/sysvinit choice. > I must disagree on this, since my tests on a rpi3 suggest the same, i.e. Raspbian Jessie (with systemd) is slower on boot than Devuan, with the same configuration, since the second one was just an upgrade to Devuan. This boot-time-final-quest is just BS, IMHO. HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Am Sat, 23 Jul 2016 19:32:34 + schrieb Jaromil : > yes is another occasion for rejoicing for all of us :^) and I find > this a very interesting point since most systemd arguments talk about > "booting times" but here is really about "login times". Well, but that boot-up speed reasoning nowadays, seems somehow outdated anyway: It's a matter of fact, that the manjaro openrc editions (of the same flavour) boot faster than the systemd flavours. ;) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Le 23/07/2016 17:14, Jaromil a écrit : yes is another occasion for rejoicing for all of us :^) and I find this a very interesting point since most systemd arguments talk about "booting times" but here is really about "login times". Devuan might be faster just because Slim starts faster than Gdm3, without relation to systemd/sysvinit choice. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
On Sat, 23 Jul 2016, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi, > > Jaromil wrote: > << > they say "interestingly the desktop login times on > Devuan Jessie (time from login to when the desktop is ready to use) > appear to be faster than for Debian, Parabola, and Fedora 24" > >> > > Well done, Devuan! :D yes is another occasion for rejoicing for all of us :^) and I find this a very interesting point since most systemd arguments talk about "booting times" but here is really about "login times". now wearing the hat of a desktop user, my habit when switching on is: 1- start the computer 2- go pour myself a glass of kefir 3- come back to desk and login 4- start working so well I am ready to wait between 1 and 3, may even indulge in harvesting more fresh kefir, but when I'm at 3 I'm already warming up my fingers with speedy password typing and want to have everything ready, its all rolling and I have stuff to do ASAP. so well - in my humble experience - login time is really much more "precious", second only to compile time (solved by Samba's ccache and distcc) ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Hi, Jaromil wrote: << they say "interestingly the desktop login times on Devuan Jessie (time from login to when the desktop is ready to use) appear to be faster than for Debian, Parabola, and Fedora 24" >> Well done, Devuan! :D -- Those who abuse me will be banned immediately from my email account. Here, I am communicating with supposedly intelligent adults who are responsible for their actions. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Hi, On 07/23/2016 10:52 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 23/07/2016 08:50, Jaromil a écrit : >Here an independent review by the good people of the "Earth-friendly >EOMA68" micro-desktop (a project worth following BTW!) who tried our >cubieboard ARM image which snapped into boot with all ready to work. > >https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/devuan-demo > >worth noting, they say "interestingly the desktop login times on >Devuan Jessie (time from login to when the desktop is ready to use) >appear to be faster than for Debian, Parabola, and Fedora 24" > >also this is a confirmation of our ambition with Devuan and the work >done on the SDK: we are coverin "directly" the most popular hardware >platforms. So to say, where you have to switch to Raspbian for RPi* >devices because Debian won't work on them, Devuan will and we can all >work on the same package repositories. This has several advantages >mostly on the front of maintainability. > Very positive feed-back! Congratulations for the good job! Didier +1 I saw this video tonight. Hellekin mentioned it in twitter :) Thanks, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Le 23/07/2016 08:50, Jaromil a écrit : Here an independent review by the good people of the "Earth-friendly EOMA68" micro-desktop (a project worth following BTW!) who tried our cubieboard ARM image which snapped into boot with all ready to work. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/devuan-demo worth noting, they say "interestingly the desktop login times on Devuan Jessie (time from login to when the desktop is ready to use) appear to be faster than for Debian, Parabola, and Fedora 24" also this is a confirmation of our ambition with Devuan and the work done on the SDK: we are coverin "directly" the most popular hardware platforms. So to say, where you have to switch to Raspbian for RPi* devices because Debian won't work on them, Devuan will and we can all work on the same package repositories. This has several advantages mostly on the front of maintainability. Very positive feed-back! Congratulations for the good job! Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo
Here an independent review by the good people of the "Earth-friendly EOMA68" micro-desktop (a project worth following BTW!) who tried our cubieboard ARM image which snapped into boot with all ready to work. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/devuan-demo worth noting, they say "interestingly the desktop login times on Devuan Jessie (time from login to when the desktop is ready to use) appear to be faster than for Debian, Parabola, and Fedora 24" also this is a confirmation of our ambition with Devuan and the work done on the SDK: we are coverin "directly" the most popular hardware platforms. So to say, where you have to switch to Raspbian for RPi* devices because Debian won't work on them, Devuan will and we can all work on the same package repositories. This has several advantages mostly on the front of maintainability. ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
