Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 13:58:34 +0200 Ludovic Bellière via Dng wrote: > As it stand, aisleriot is part of the gnome suite and thus depends on > GTK3. Maybe something in the framework changed that does not support > your system anymore. Oh my god if this turns out to be the case I will laugh so damned hard; I hear that GTK3 has a history of springing changes on people. (Yes I'm still salty about needing to hold the alt key down to see underlines in menu items.) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
On Thursday, August 12th, 2021 at 11:47 AM, g4sra wrote: > <--snip-- > > The problem with mouse-drag does not occur on the other disk. > > <--snip-- > > Of note is that when I start /usr/games/sol as root the problem > > disappars---I can drag cards just fine. > > This implies that your issue is 'user' based. See my comment above. > > One of the re-occurring issues with (GUI) applications after an update can be > traced to the 'user's personal configuration files for the previous > application version. > It runs as 'root' but not as 'user'-> it is either a permission issue or a > 'user' configuration issue. See my comment above. > > Two steps you could try... > > Create a new 'user' and login. See if the app runs as non-root (no prior use > of the application - no stale personal configuration files, rules out a > permissions issue). See my comment above. As we now know it functions correctly for 'root' but does not run as a 'new-non-root-user' it is most probably a permissions issue. Next questions to ask are: What has changed related to 'user' and X permissions between Beowulf and Chimera. Why does this one App misbehave when others don't. NB. If it was a hardware problem the mouse wouldn't work for 'any' user or any part of the GUI rather than just one App. publickey - g4sra@protonmail.com - 0x42E94623.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
On 14.08.21 05:56, Haines Brown wrote: > Because I had reinstalled aisleriot and I don't see others reporting a > bug in aireriot, I do not suspect the application is brokken. That may be so, but when glines always crashed on my machine, the quickest fix was to install klines. If there is a kde version of aisleriot, installing that at least provides another test vector. Erik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
Hello Haines, Has stated in other replies, the issues might either be of hardware of software in nature. If your software stack is problematic, the reasonable path would be to investigate what aisleriot has for requirements. As it stand, aisleriot is part of the gnome suite and thus depends on GTK3. Maybe something in the framework changed that does not support your system anymore. I also run aisleriot from time to time, and never noticed the cards being greyed out... Could it be that you have an ancient graphic card, or that you haven't installed the proper firmwares or drivers to support your hardware? Ludovic On Tue, 10 Aug 2021, Haines Brown wrote: The problem I'm facing is indeed petty, but I hope that help in my trying to resolve it will be more widely useful. To take a break from work and to refresh the mind I run a copy of Klondike from aisleriot. Suddenly for no apparently reason it ceased to function properly. When I click on a card it greys out as it shoud but I cannot then move it with the mouse. The greyed out card stays in place. If the problem were with the X system I assume it would show up elsewhere. I reinstalled aisle-riot. It affects all aisleriot games that require dragging, and so apparently it is a gtk problem. How does one troubleshoot a misbehaving graphical application? I played with gdb without really knowing what I was doing. -- Haines Brown signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
I created a new account, logged into it, and yet find the problem in it as well. Root can drag cards but user cannot, This seems to rul out a miscoconfiguration of user. Because I had reinstalled aisleriot and I don't see others reporting a bug in aireriot, I do not suspect the application is brokken. I've got Chimaera installed on another disk and so when I can take break from work to boot it to see if the problem is found with it. I've got Beowuld installed on a laptop, and no problem dragging cards there. I've got Jessie intalled on an older machine and find no problem dragging cards there either. The problem seems in the X window system used by any account on the one disk. Sorry to drag this petty problem out, but it is an intellectual challenge. -- Haines Brown ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
<--snip--> > The problem with mouse-drag does not occur on the other disk. <--snip--> > Of note is that when I start /usr/games/sol as root the problem > disappars---I can drag cards just fine. This implies that your issue is 'user' based. One of the re-occurring issues with (GUI) applications after an update can be traced to the 'user's personal configuration files for the previous application version. It runs as 'root' but not as 'user'-> it is either a permission issue or a 'user' configuration issue. Two steps you could try... Create a new 'user' and login. See if the app runs as non-root (no prior use of the application - no stale personal configuration files, rules out a permissions issue). For the user that cannot run the app, purge all personal configuration files for the application, these can be tricky to find. Your desktop will determine where they are placed.. E.g. .kde .trinity .config .cache A good punt is to purge all of '.cache' and then strip out anything in '.config' (if it exists, or look elsewhere). [user@localhost:~]$ rm -fr .cache/* [user@localhost:~]$ find .config -iname "aisleriot" .config/gnome-games/aisleriot [user@localhost:~]$ rm -fr .config/gnome-games/aisleriot publickey - g4sra@protonmail.com - 0x42E94623.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 04:25:09AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > I had trouble understanding your suggestion to use ps with -o cmd. > For me, the -o option for the ps command is to specify format. Were you > suggesting that I do: $ ps -o aisleriot ? I think he meant ps -o cmd instead of ps -o aisleriot -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 10:22:35AM +, g4sra via Dng wrote: > <--snip--> > > When you really have no idea where to start (after looking through > all logs, obviously)... > > Use 'ps' with the '-o cmd' option to find out *exactly* how the > executable is being invoked. After killing everything, paste the > command in a terminal window and execute it from there. Watch the > text that scrolls by in that terminal window for anything erroneous! Thanks for the response. I tried pulling keyboard and substituting another mouse, but that had no effect. Since I have no other odd behaviors using mouse to drag I'm not surprised. I powered down and then could not log beck in when I rebooted. Ran update-grub from Cimaera on another disk and for some obscure reason I could then log in. The problem with mouse-drag does not occur on the other disk disk. Purging aisleriot and reinstalling did not help I checked .xsession-errors and other logs and found no signs of trouble. I had trouble understanding your suggestion to use ps with -o cmd. For me, the -o option for the ps command is to specify format. Were you suggesting that I do: $ ps -o aisleriot ? Of note is that when I start /usr/games/sol as root the problem disappars---I can drag cards just fine. -- Haines Brown ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
Bernard Rosset via Dng said on Wed, 11 Aug 2021 10:40:31 +0200 >> [...] powering down the computer, letting it alone for 30 seconds >> [...] All this stuff costs you 10 to 15 minutes and rules out a lot. >> > >I would also suggest burning incense and jumping on one foot >counter-clockwise around the desk chair while making chicken sounds. The sarcasm isn't necessary. There are many weird, hard to find, state-based problems that disappear (for now) with a power cycle, because power-cycling brings you back to a known state And those state-based problems are exactly the ones that take forever to solve, because they're state based. If you absolutely must find the exact root cause, then you can't power cycle the computer, and instead must spend hours or days finding the root cause. But if you need to get back to work and can live without identifying the root cause, power cycling can either rule out these weird state based problems, or remove the symptom. Either way you're much better off. In the words of the late Phil Barnett, "While it would be nice to spend days figuring it out, I spent minutes and got past it." SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
<--snip--> When you really have no idea where to start (after looking through all logs, obviously)... Use 'ps' with the '-o cmd' option to find out *exactly* how the executable is being invoked. After killing everything, paste the command in a terminal window and execute it from there. Watch the text that scrolls by in that terminal window for anything erroneous! publickey - g4sra@protonmail.com - 0x42E94623.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
[...] powering down the computer, letting it alone for 30 seconds [...] All this stuff costs you 10 to 15 minutes and rules out a lot. I would also suggest burning incense and jumping on one foot counter-clockwise around the desk chair while making chicken sounds. The last time I did maintenance, I followed all that, and my problem ended up solved, hence I concluded these steps helped ruling out a lot of problems. Bernard (Beer) Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
Haines Brown said on Tue, 10 Aug 2021 11:11:24 -0400 >The problem I'm facing is indeed petty, but I hope that help in my >trying to resolve it will be more widely useful. > >To take a break from work and to refresh the mind I run a copy of >Klondike from aisleriot. Suddenly for no apparently reason it >ceased to function properly. When I click on a card it greys out as it >shoud but I cannot then move it with the mouse. The greyed out card >stays in place. > >If the problem were with the X system I assume it would show up >elsewhere. I reinstalled aisle-riot. It affects all aisleriot games >that require dragging, and so apparently it is a gtk problem. How does >one troubleshoot a misbehaving graphical application? In this case I'd value fixing it quick over a guarantee of finding the exact root cause. First quick and easy: I'd swap in a known good other mouse. I'd disconnect and reconnect all keyboards and mouses next. Then, I'd do the general maintenance of killing X, powering down the computer, letting it alone for 30 seconds, logging in, running X, and try Aisleriot again. All this stuff costs you 10 to 15 minutes and rules out a lot. After that I'd get to the harder stuff like seeing if it's software. Find a live DVD distro with, or able to install aisleriot, and boot to that DVD. If it works from there and not from Devuan, you need to start diagnosing software. I'd start by finding applications, other than aisleriot, that exhibit this behavior. Find commonalities between the non-working softwares, and find distinctions between that group and the group that does work. Did aisleriot or any seemingly related software packages update around that time? Also, try to remember when this problem appeared, and any other symptoms/oddities/observations that happened around that same time. Try to create and test hypotheses from that. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] malfunctioning graphical application
The problem I'm facing is indeed petty, but I hope that help in my trying to resolve it will be more widely useful. To take a break from work and to refresh the mind I run a copy of Klondike from aisleriot. Suddenly for no apparently reason it ceased to function properly. When I click on a card it greys out as it shoud but I cannot then move it with the mouse. The greyed out card stays in place. If the problem were with the X system I assume it would show up elsewhere. I reinstalled aisle-riot. It affects all aisleriot games that require dragging, and so apparently it is a gtk problem. How does one troubleshoot a misbehaving graphical application? I played with gdb without really knowing what I was doing. -- Haines Brown ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
