[Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
re all, Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting hard work in it. I also fell in love with another VUA, whose name I won't tell, but he is the one hosting the gitlab, running very well. http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.asc http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.sha do not use this in production, this is an internal preview (not even an alpha) for the Devuan enthusiastic community and for those wondering if we'll really make it: yes we will. Journalists and DWN editors reading: please do not link this. We will have another more public release soon :^) Let it be a private valentine Also please note that this is not yet rebranded, so it says Debian almost everywhere. Didn't find the time for that yet. default user is 'devuan' password is always 'devuan', also for root sources are those of Debian 8 RC1 jessie plus the mods here: https://git.devuan.org/groups/packages-base and packed with the SDK https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-sdk happy hacking -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
<3 On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Jaromil wrote: > > re all, > > Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of > affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in > person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting > hard work in it. I also fell in love with another VUA, whose name I > won't tell, but he is the one hosting the gitlab, running very well. > > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso > > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.asc > > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.sha > > do not use this in production, this is an internal preview (not even an > alpha) for the Devuan enthusiastic community and for those wondering if > we'll really make it: yes we will. > > Journalists and DWN editors reading: please do not link this. We will > have another more public release soon :^) Let it be a private valentine > > Also please note that this is not yet rebranded, so it says Debian > almost everywhere. Didn't find the time for that yet. > > default user is 'devuan' > password is always 'devuan', also for root > > sources are those of Debian 8 RC1 jessie > plus the mods here: https://git.devuan.org/groups/packages-base > and packed with the SDK https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-sdk > > > happy hacking > > -- > Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) > We are free to share code and we code to share freedom > Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf > GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 > Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
Some notes I should have added: this is using sysvinit as init, but still has systemd because: 1- udev is part of systemd 2- gvfs is still depending from systemd 3- dbus is still depending from systemd 4- lightdm requires systemd-logind (only systemd daemon running) I'm looking forward to Jude's suggestions for 1 and 3. For 2 is just a matter of having gvfs recompiled. 4 may be solved by Dimkr's LoginKit if he makes it, or we may have to keep the systemd-login daemon around for a little longer. ciao -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
Hi Jaromil, (1) and (3) should already be taken care of. Regarding (1), even though udev is part of systemd, you can still build udev from version 215 without requiring any linkage against libsystemd0. The udev from Debian testing (the one I'm using) doesn't link against it, for example. Regarding (3), The dbus in Debian links against libsystemd0. However, the dbus in Devuan's git is configured to compile without it. -Jude On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Jaromil wrote: > > Some notes I should have added: > > this is using sysvinit as init, but still has systemd because: > > 1- udev is part of systemd > 2- gvfs is still depending from systemd > 3- dbus is still depending from systemd > 4- lightdm requires systemd-logind (only systemd daemon running) > > > I'm looking forward to Jude's suggestions for 1 and 3. For 2 is just a > matter of having gvfs recompiled. 4 may be solved by Dimkr's LoginKit if > he makes it, or we may have to keep the systemd-login daemon around for > a little longer. > > > ciao > > -- > Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) > We are free to share code and we code to share freedom > Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf > GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 > Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:41:20 + Jaromil wrote: > 4- lightdm requires systemd-logind (only systemd daemon running) Congrats! This is great, exactly what I was waiting for! The logind dependency of several libraries and daemons (most notably, AccountsService) made the debugging of GDM a nightmware. I'll try to resume my work this week (after a short hiatus), when I find a free evening. -- Dima Krasner, dimakrasner.com pgp89InBJr4x9.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 09:36:00PM +, Jaromil wrote: > > re all, > > Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of > affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in > person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting > hard work in it. I also fell in love with another VUA, whose name I > won't tell, but he is the one hosting the gitlab, running very well. > > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.asc > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.sha > > do not use this in production, this is an internal preview (not even an > alpha) for the Devuan enthusiastic community and for those wondering if > we'll really make it: yes we will. I'm wondering what /etc/apt/sources.list looks like; I've tried pointing mine at deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main but get: W: Failed to fetch http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie/InRelease Unable to find expected entry 'main/binary-i386/Packages' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file) W: Failed to fetch http:/packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie/Release.gpg Unable to connect to :http: W: Failed to fetch http:/packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie/main/source/Sources Unable to connect to :http: Thanks, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:41:20 + Jaromil wrote: > > Some notes I should have added: > > this is using sysvinit as init, but still has systemd because: > > 1- udev is part of systemd > 2- gvfs is still depending from systemd > 3- dbus is still depending from systemd > 4- lightdm requires systemd-logind (only systemd daemon running) > > > I'm looking forward to Jude's suggestions for 1 and 3. For 2 is just > a matter of having gvfs recompiled. 4 may be solved by Dimkr's > LoginKit if he makes it, or we may have to keep the systemd-login > daemon around for a little longer. > > > ciao I have another suggestion: Enable booting into an nCurses program that accepts user and password, enables you to choose your window manager, and then this program simply spawns X running your chosen window manager. == WHY THIS SUGGESTION == To me, as long as we keep catering to every upstream poetterization, we're just dancing to Red Hat's tune. Red Hat made it clear that they're out to poetterize every piece of software, eliminating all choice. We bend over backward making ourselves compatible with poetterware, hoping this time it will be enough. But it's never enough: They won't quit til the cat command has systemd requirements. By making complete substitutes for vast swaths of poetterware, we draw a line in the sand, telling Red Hat, its sycophants, and the "I don't care" world, that they have a choice. A choice made of building blocks anybody can use. A choice that's granular, repairable and understandable. I fear if we keep playing whack-a-mole with Red Hat, we'll tire ourselves out, and never get to the point where we're actually making good software for the users. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
Doesn't Enlightenment have a display manager, and isn't systemd optional for Enlightenment? -Jonathan On Saturday, February 14, 2015 6:35 PM, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:41:20 + Jaromil wrote: > > Some notes I should have added: > > this is using sysvinit as init, but still has systemd because: > > 1- udev is part of systemd > 2- gvfs is still depending from systemd > 3- dbus is still depending from systemd > 4- lightdm requires systemd-logind (only systemd daemon running) > > > I'm looking forward to Jude's suggestions for 1 and 3. For 2 is just > a matter of having gvfs recompiled. 4 may be solved by Dimkr's > LoginKit if he makes it, or we may have to keep the systemd-login > daemon around for a little longer. > > > ciao I have another suggestion: Enable booting into an nCurses program that accepts user and password, enables you to choose your window manager, and then this program simply spawns X running your chosen window manager. == WHY THIS SUGGESTION == To me, as long as we keep catering to every upstream poetterization, we're just dancing to Red Hat's tune. Red Hat made it clear that they're out to poetterize every piece of software, eliminating all choice. We bend over backward making ourselves compatible with poetterware, hoping this time it will be enough. But it's never enough: They won't quit til the cat command has systemd requirements. By making complete substitutes for vast swaths of poetterware, we draw a line in the sand, telling Red Hat, its sycophants, and the "I don't care" world, that they have a choice. A choice made of building blocks anybody can use. A choice that's granular, repairable and understandable. I fear if we keep playing whack-a-mole with Red Hat, we'll tire ourselves out, and never get to the point where we're actually making good software for the users. SteveT Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Jaromil, thank you for the gift! Now, I personally hope that this can put an end to every flame about "the fake project" and "you ask for money for nothing". Have a nice weekend, Alberto Il 14/02/2015 9:36 pm, Jaromil ha scritto: > > re all, > > Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of > affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in > person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting > hard work in it. I also fell in love with another VUA, whose name I > won't tell, but he is the one hosting the gitlab, running very well. > > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.asc > > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso.sha > > do not use this in production, this is an internal preview (not even an > alpha) for the Devuan enthusiastic community and for those wondering if > we'll really make it: yes we will. > > Journalists and DWN editors reading: please do not link this. We will > have another more public release soon :^) Let it be a private valentine > > Also please note that this is not yet rebranded, so it says Debian > almost everywhere. Didn't find the time for that yet. > > default user is 'devuan' > password is always 'devuan', also for root > > sources are those of Debian 8 RC1 jessie > plus the mods here: https://git.devuan.org/groups/packages-base > and packed with the SDK https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-sdk > > > happy hacking > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJU4FkgAAoJEAzproFXfBTI1NgP/RZICg3x5y7cvILnyOoCTkBr /CCklMA/bM9dQLb8BlU90hxmQKof3KUMtub7Eh/ijvuhoJUUquoqoB8GRUMjtN0s sUgIhCwFsf0LIlutQWC0IHFiRgvu9BV/bACVoveARhgJhVPBGuE0d3pVkHeSk/Pp QZ7YpiYCwh2V8jsArVzTlkYWyA7mLEvIIq5fBe52BU68hwJgbYBRd7ue748Qr9FC HdViRAcjlz1voV0b9Bn6sKMFzvxAAmeK+rZ8TPDLr/pYZ64W9/lJ9fuMSXHOF5+2 yJ2K4IR9C2/cHVoC9jYkxesQXBYpBqaHry7blHshf/q1Jw4oIlqI8T2QidZGFaqz b8eaZ/zxGdse0HQb2sowjMXbI//EL2pkqGMTPJ7osPtxGcspo7mHsN3Z/jjZ3n6f jIj7KoVNGg2Yaq/Yqe6RxLQ3fBsCRPEM16B8gjOo46HIXPqn3oZxyJbx3NgeU6pz ecXNE1dHhKtQlCiTqltjLTCR8yGEuDLi2/1IKuwxhvvMB1lOK1ryFDIujnX5kLxK 90nGejwio3Tv+/vNdWE1ghQ2CavLEQsE6XkYQc5cvIisQkVlYRSi7EdnMe1OmeGC KmIrptdlLVDGzqp62CkmETw00QunPDGY81r7tXhlbyaaH/AF6+hHNvV5Osq4Swp+ LPCYi7ulpOFjy948xVwD =NdIp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, Alberto Zuin - Liste wrote: > Hi Jaromil, > thank you for the gift! and thank you for the giftlab! <3 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Isaac Dunham wrote: > I'm wondering what /etc/apt/sources.list looks like; I've tried pointing > mine at > deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main that is not yet ready, thats why is called pre-alpha : ) you can use debians to install more sw to test mate is pretty nice ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sat, 2015-02-14 at 21:36 +, Jaromil wrote: > re all, > > Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of > affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in > person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting > hard work in it. I also fell in love with another VUA, whose name I > won't tell, but he is the one hosting the gitlab, running very well. Thanks a lot for your efforts, I'm running it in quemu-kvm currently. :) > sources are those of Debian 8 RC1 jessie > plus the mods here: https://git.devuan.org/groups/packages-base > and packed with the SDK https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-sdk Seems like you are running the Debian Installer with systemd-sysv and later on install sysvinit-core etc. This can be fixed with a pre-seed file, maybe non-trivial to fix. Any interest in having this option? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sun, 2015-02-15 at 00:17 +0100, Jaromil wrote: > On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Isaac Dunham wrote: > > > I'm wondering what /etc/apt/sources.list looks like; I've tried pointing > > mine at > > deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main > > that is not yet ready, thats why is called pre-alpha : ) > > you can use debians to install more sw to test > > mate is pretty nice I'd like to get access to Adam Borowoskis packages, as well as Debian testing: cat /etc/apt/sources.list #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux Jessie-DI-rc1 _Jessie_ - Official RC i386 xfce-CD Binary-1 20150108-23:17]/ jessie main deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free deb http://angband.pl/debian nosystemd main deb-src http://angband.pl/debian nosystemd main I do also get the same messages as Isaac: apt-get update W: Conflicting distribution: http://packages.devuan.org stable InRelease (expected stable but got None) W: Failed to fetch http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/stable/InRelease Unable to find expected entry 'main/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file) E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead. root@devuan:/home/devuan# cat /etc/apt/sources.list Any workarounds available? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/15/2015 08:50 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Doesn't Enlightenment have a display manager, and isn't systemd > optional for Enlightenment? -Jonathan I've been using "slim" for logging in (on Gentoo / FreeBSD ever since my escape from Debian) and it doesn't need systemd. Is there a particular reason why lightdm would be preferred or is it just about personal preferences? - -- Stefan Ott http://www.ott.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJU4zrFAAoJENlTbTnJZqYonHcP/1rqn3nvoZyCW4PZ35IRMRIl FtFQjkXrHSc6T2bn5nSBSQx6OOg45I8SA8UWqEx2CuY5aZM3T6sL1dG0Iyi12nCw NZq5pBc1oUFrvTVPT2q0WTSc4P4soq8+Zc0v7dA6lrhaocWj4oeVN8Cpp4DracGy sUIYnHJKP3bqhQ+6KOQdwryz8AMVBdVQaOOky6n/9NmkHx824lKMQMYa50Qdgtcp NEx4yDlXx1Svg8DRe2nMZ65vlOpezBKGWhnhLX1tF8aCmoyoHXz3FK7tITvxb1fZ EQQog7kBK2JIhK/8UCA9LQc3Xk+8mmnIKYYRDqBfjnwEcRoGZ3NT0hilf1Wo0y3k XqDX2Igr9mxoU4MXMJWoXxpMEB2UlBpepg8S2jPSkXI6+rD22sq0g3Mfo5csqs4K +le0ncFluTlA0ey+VzLEG5SLV6rBUKINqKWUGmxNKbhdxyd0VlXjjr9b2WHuJBUn 0cJNBvDxk7ws/iTmO0o7ybSoANPTl9VLQBoRHusw9xTn8UsiMGJ/Rh85XdUSj9/b w5wadkjaVVNAew9U7RpJ8VCVIwux6ZNTEJNyU34Okm1YBF0clRJQCmpuYcaW6DdF C6x5J+E2jEW7iDrFmY131LVxWDBXC6VTZAp11eYIz+I4XmMJBOWfQ8P6UD8VdAp5 KpeEFdGXnBtjR7ipoCKO =XEst -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:36:00 + Jaromil wrote: > > re all, > > Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of > affairs. [snip] > http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!! This is very encouraging, and very timely. It worked on my hardware-assisted VM processor running Wheezy and Qemu, done with KatolaZ' 4 step instructions and Svante's -enable-kvm suggestion. The Xfce front end worked very well, and was an excellent choice. The fonts were perfect for a Qemu hosted app. It's a great proof of concept. I have a few suggestions for software that should be added to its repository as soon as possible, in order to assist evaluators in their troubleshooting and enhancement tasks: * screen and tmux (hopefully with a pointer to a tmux cheat-sheet) * Some sort of light weight graphical vim (vim-gtk?) * Guake or Tilda fullscreen terminal SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:36:00 + Jaromil wrote: > > re all, > > Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of > affairs. Jaromil, This couldn't have come at a better moment! Right now, the remnants of the Debian-User mailing list are declaring victory, and yelling their usual counter-revolutionary rhetoric. I especially like these: == In short, this is TL;DR. We've all got better things to waste our time on. Please go away. Nobody's interested in this any longer regardless of their position on systemd. == == The worst effect of systemd is that it appears to make its partisans feel free to act like five year olds who have had too much caffeine. == Reading these, I smiled, knowing that while the remaining Debian-User couch potatoes flap their gums, we overcaffeinated five year olds are creating a depoetterized Debian fork/derivative/whatever, as proven by the secret pre-alpha Valentine running in my VM. Thank you Jaromil. Thank you Devuan community. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
And yet I find it telling that none has so far answered Luke's question as to why they are not bothered about the recent changes and direction as he is. Was it bad for me to presume that no one would answer? - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 13:28:28 -0600 Nate Bargmann wrote: > And yet I find it telling that none has so far answered Luke's > question as to why they are not bothered about the recent changes and > direction as he is. Was it bad for me to presume that no one would > answer? > > - Nate Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been able to completely read any of his posts. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
> Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been able > to completely read any of his posts. its more than just a question, but you probably want : https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00695.html ( that I just added to my systemd vault list of important links to read on the topic ) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 04:41:12PM -0500, Neo Futur wrote: > > Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been able > > to completely read any of his posts. > its more than just a question, but you probably want : > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00695.html > > ( that I just added to my systemd vault list of important links to > read on the topic ) I think Luke's efforts are definitely laudable, but seriously guys: succintness is called for, especially in large MLs with thousands of users. And it should mean something if it's said by one of the most verbose mailinglisters on planet Earth :) Luke: there is no way to change history, unfortunately. Debian has decided, and will go downhill on systemd, and nobody can do anything to stop this. It's unbelievable, and sad, and dull, but it's not gonna change HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:41:12 -0500 Neo Futur wrote: > > Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been > > able to completely read any of his posts. > its more than just a question, but you probably want : > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00695.html The preceding link covers as much territory as the Roman Empire. Nate asked the following: = And yet I find it telling that none has so far answered Luke's question as to why they are not bothered about the recent changes and direction as he is. Was it bad for me to presume that no one would answer? = So I ask *which* recent changes and direction? Systemd? Everyone's spoken on their reasons for hating that. Monolithic entanglement and complexification in general? Many have stated their exact reasons for disliking those. Not having libsystemd0 load dynamically, and more importantly having upstreams treat it as optional? The NSA/libselinux1 thing? Something else? By the way, note to Luke: Your stuff would be *much* easier to read if you used normal capitalization. Personally, I find it much harder to read text, especially long text, when my only parse point is separating by periods. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
* On 2015 17 Feb 16:48 -0600, Steve Litt wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:41:12 -0500 > Neo Futur wrote: > > > > Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been > > > able to completely read any of his posts. > > its more than just a question, but you probably want : > > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00695.html > > The preceding link covers as much territory as the Roman Empire. Nate > asked the following: > > = > And yet I find it telling that none has so far answered Luke's question > as to why they are not bothered about the recent changes and direction > as he is. Was it bad for me to presume that no one would answer? > = > > So I ask *which* recent changes and direction? Systemd? That is what Luke is referring to AIUI. Here is the relevant portion of his post which, although long, I found to be good reading: ---8< so, marco, you wrote: > Again, you clearly do not understand well how systemd works. marco: understanding or otherwise how systemd works is not the point: the point is that there has been a unilateral decision across virtually every single GNU/Linux distro to abandon and remove *any* alternative to having libsystemd0 installed. historical precedent in the software industry and beyond tells us that placing so much power and trust in a single system and a single group should be ringing alarm bells so loudly in your head that you should wake up deaf after having first passed out with dizziness! :) so could i ask you, as i really genuinely don't understand, why is it that the lack of choice here *doesn't* bother you? i'm not asking for a technical review or a technically-based argument as to "why libsystemd0 is better" - that has been debated many many times and is entirely moot. i'm asking "why does *only* having libsystemd0 as the sole exclusive startup method, removal of which prevents and prohibits the use of a whopping FIFTEEN PERCENT of the available debian software base, and where that exclusive exclusionary process is being rapidly duplicated across virtually every single GNU/Linux distribution that we know; why does that *not* make you pause for thought that there might be something desperately and very badly wrong?" ->8--- The question at the end of the quoted text will likely not be answered, at least in public, although there is a recent post which amounts to, "We like it this way". So be it. Okay, enough OT stuff. Luke et. al. are contributing to our knowledge base. I am feeling out paths of freeing at least my main desktop since, as demonstrated by the Valentine's ISO, Xfce and Lightdm become rather neutered by the simple removal of systemd as init even though systemd and systemd-shim are installed. I also see the same error when trying to mount the CDROM image as I did on this desktop last year when I opted for systemd-shim instead of the full systemd--"Failed to mount "CDROM"; Not authorized to perform operation". - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On February 17, 2015 10:41:12 PM GMT+01:00, Neo Futur wrote: >> Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been able >> to completely read any of his posts. >its more than just a question, but you probably want : > >https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00695.html > >( that I just added to my systemd vault list of important links to >read on the topic ) this is a very good read. thanks for posting it, thanks Luke for keeping up such a pleasant, fragrant and hate-free discussion. you can always count on Devuan to back your well informed arguments with a pragmatic implementation of the other possible worlds current Debian leaders are denying to exist. to their own disgrace, on the long term, I'm sure. reading you keeps my hope alive, that sometimes leaders may still change idea and choose an option that contemplates everyone's needs and intentions. ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
Ouch, was this necessary in anyway ? (If anything, it's disappointing to me. Let's act like adults...) Donkey Saplot On 2015-02-17 18:23, Steve Litt wrote: > Right now, the remnants of the Debian-User mailing list are declaring > victory, and yelling their usual counter-revolutionary rhetoric. I > especially like these: > > == > In short, this is TL;DR. We've all got better things to waste our time > on. Please go away. Nobody's interested in this any longer regardless > of their position on systemd. > == > > == > The worst effect of systemd is that it appears to make its > partisans feel free to act like five year olds who have had > too much caffeine. > == > > Reading these, I smiled, knowing that while the remaining Debian-User > couch potatoes flap their gums, we overcaffeinated five year olds are > creating a depoetterized Debian fork/derivative/whatever, as proven by > the secret pre-alpha Valentine running in my VM. > > Thank you Jaromil. Thank you Devuan community. > > SteveT > > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:40:43 -0600 Nate Bargmann wrote: > * On 2015 17 Feb 16:48 -0600, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:41:12 -0500 > > Neo Futur wrote: > > > > > > Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been > > > > able to completely read any of his posts. > > > its more than just a question, but you probably want : > > > > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00695.html > > > > The preceding link covers as much territory as the Roman Empire. > > Nate asked the following: > > > > = > > And yet I find it telling that none has so far answered Luke's > > question as to why they are not bothered about the recent changes > > and direction as he is. Was it bad for me to presume that no one > > would answer? = > > > > So I ask *which* recent changes and direction? Systemd? > > That is what Luke is referring to AIUI. Here is the relevant portion > of his post which, although long, I found to be good reading: > > ---8< > > so, marco, you wrote: > > > Again, you clearly do not understand well how systemd works. > > marco: understanding or otherwise how systemd works is not the point: > the point is that there has been a unilateral decision across > virtually every single GNU/Linux distro to abandon and remove *any* > alternative to having libsystemd0 installed. historical precedent in > the software industry and beyond tells us that placing so much power > and trust in a single system and a single group should be ringing > alarm bells so loudly in your head that you should wake up deaf after > having first passed out with dizziness! :) > > so could i ask you, as i really genuinely don't understand, why is it > that the lack of choice here *doesn't* bother you? i'm not asking for > a technical review or a technically-based argument as to "why > libsystemd0 is better" - that has been debated many many times and is > entirely moot. i'm asking "why does *only* having libsystemd0 as the > sole exclusive startup method, removal of which prevents and prohibits > the use of a whopping FIFTEEN PERCENT of the available debian software > base, and where that exclusive exclusionary process is being rapidly > duplicated across virtually every single GNU/Linux distribution that > we know; why does that *not* make you pause for thought that there > might be something desperately and very badly wrong?" > > > ->8--- > > > The question at the end of the quoted text will likely not be > answered, at least in public, although there is a recent post which > amounts to, "We like it this way". So be it. Ahhh, that question. Just for reference, this was what you posted earlier: == And yet I find it telling that none has so far answered Luke's question as to why they are not bothered about the recent changes and direction as he is. Was it bad for me to presume that no one would answer? == At the time (and until this email), I had *assumed* your reference to "none" meant nobody on *this* list, and I was thinking that lots of people on this list had expressed many things, especially back on Debian-User. If "none" referred to systemd afficianados, apoligists, and anti-anti-systemd people, then it wasn't bad to presume they wouldn't answer: they're more interested in propaganda than DIYable or repairable OS's. And they believe Red Hat's poetterbs. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
Hi, anybody has an idea on how to fix this? On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 19:56 +0100, Svante Signell wrote: > On Sun, 2015-02-15 at 00:17 +0100, Jaromil wrote: > > On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Isaac Dunham wrote: > > > > > I'm wondering what /etc/apt/sources.list looks like; I've tried pointing > > > mine at > > > deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main > > > > that is not yet ready, thats why is called pre-alpha : ) > > > > you can use debians to install more sw to test > > > > mate is pretty nice > > I'd like to get access to Adam Borowoskis packages, as well as Debian > testing: > cat /etc/apt/sources.list > #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux Jessie-DI-rc1 _Jessie_ - Official RC i386 > xfce-CD Binary-1 20150108-23:17]/ jessie main > > deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free > deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free > > deb http://angband.pl/debian nosystemd main > deb-src http://angband.pl/debian nosystemd main > > I do also get the same messages as Isaac: > apt-get update > W: Conflicting distribution: http://packages.devuan.org stable InRelease > (expected stable but got None) > W: Failed to fetch > http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/stable/InRelease Unable to find > expected entry 'main/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list > entry or malformed file) > > E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old > ones used instead. > > Any workarounds available? > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] pre alpha valentine (secret love declaration)
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 12:06:58PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote: > Hi, anybody has an idea on how to fix this? > > On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 19:56 +0100, Svante Signell wrote: > > On Sun, 2015-02-15 at 00:17 +0100, Jaromil wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Isaac Dunham wrote: > > > > > > > I'm wondering what /etc/apt/sources.list looks like; I've tried pointing > > > > mine at > > > > deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main > > > > > > that is not yet ready, thats why is called pre-alpha : ) > > > If I understand correctly, this ^^ means the repository indexes aren't being generated yet. HTH, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
