Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 18:46:27 -0700 Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote: > On 6/17/21 4:59 PM, Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400 > > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng > >> wrote: ... > >> ... > >>> Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as > >>> the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency > >>> that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer > >>> under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie > >>> to Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that > >>> wasn't installed on the new one, and that is doing the > >>> automounting. > >> Historical note. > >> > >> And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was > >> almost identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it > >> differed primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. > >> This was the last Debian relese that had no problems running > >> without systemd. > > I run Debian Stretch with sysvinit without problems even though some > > systemd libraries and udev-systemd remained after converting to > > sysvinit. Even updates-upgrades don't result in systemd-init being > > reinstalled like with Buster. > > > > B > > I ran Debian from Bo through Stretch. I had no real problems > upgrading through the releases until I got to Buster. Then I hit a > wall. It MAY be possible to run a very minimal system (with no > chance of running X) and still avoid systemd. While I have been told > that this is the case, I have no personal evidence of this. > > That is what caused me to switch to Devuan. When testing Buster, I was able to run a terminal only system with sysvinit which survived update-upgrade; however, when I tried to install X, sysvinit was uninstalled and systemd init replaced it. I could replace with sysvinit, but whenever I did an update-upgrade systemd init would again be reinstalled. What caused it was a dependency. Some file (dbus. IIRC) that was an X dependency had a systemd library dependency which was present by the way; however, systemd init got installed, too. Never discovered why. And if I tried to "block" systemd init from installing, the upgrade would fail. Systemd had finally become too pervasive to deal with easily as I figured it eventually would be. Like you, I abandoned Debian and went to Devuan. B ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On 6/17/21 4:59 PM, Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: ... ... Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie to Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that wasn't installed on the new one, and that is doing the automounting. Historical note. And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was almost identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it differed primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. This was the last Debian relese that had no problems running without systemd. I run Debian Stretch with sysvinit without problems even though some systemd libraries and udev-systemd remained after converting to sysvinit. Even updates-upgrades don't result in systemd-init being reinstalled like with Buster. B I ran Debian from Bo through Stretch. I had no real problems upgrading through the releases until I got to Buster. Then I hit a wall. It MAY be possible to run a very minimal system (with no chance of running X) and still avoid systemd. While I have been told that this is the case, I have no personal evidence of this. That is what caused me to switch to Devuan. Marc ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng > wrote: ... > ... > > > > Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as > > the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency > > that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer > > under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie to > > Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that wasn't > > installed on the new one, and that is doing the automounting. > > Historical note. > > And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was almost > identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it differed > primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. This was the > last Debian relese that had no problems running without systemd. I run Debian Stretch with sysvinit without problems even though some systemd libraries and udev-systemd remained after converting to sysvinit. Even updates-upgrades don't result in systemd-init being reinstalled like with Buster. B ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] historical note
On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:35 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210617000235.sunedmrx24ulc...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 01:29:12PM -0700, Patrick Bartek via Dng > wrote: ... > ... > > > > Jessie was the first Debian version to use systemd by default as > > the init. Perhaps, something was installed as a systemd dependency > > that wouldn't have been installed with the new Beowulf computer > > under sysvinit that carried forward with a dist-upgrade of Jessie to > > Beowulf. Or you installed something on the old system that wasn't > > installed on the new one, and that is doing the automounting. > > Historical note. > > And the first Devuan release was called Jessie because it was almost > identical to the Debian release with the same name -- it differed > primarily in that it did not use systemd as an init. This was the > last Debian relese that had no problems running without systemd. ..say "no major problems running without systemd.", and I'll agree. ..my opinion remains we should have started from Debian Wheezy, where those first systemd bits were snuck in, but I wasn't around here when that major decision was made. I still had not seen Theodore T'so have problems with systemd, so I still believed my own problems with that, was me falling too far behind from work with http://groklaw.net/ for about 11 years. As you may see, there were hundreds of thousands of us doing Groklaw. It was addictive. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
