Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
I'd go for: 1. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Negative-Galaxy-v1.5-SVG.svg or a spinoff of this, seems sober and not too flashy, i like it 2. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan-D-Inspired-2.svg if the swirl could be improved and, as a suggestion, the other letters could be non-latin Btw, is there a roadmap? Or is devuan just gonna be debian without systemd? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: However, I don't think this is a priority now. I still cannot imagine why someone would want to be strictly anonymous while accessing that. You can replace anonymous with systemd, you know? It's a matter of choice. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
Jaromil why wasn't the logo I submitted, the squgilly spiral of blue and orange, even amongst the options at all. Is this a slap in my face and a stab in the back? Why? I've never done anything to you and want you to succeed in recreating the linux we all knew before this crap happened. Cmon. --- jaro...@dyne.org wrote: From: Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:39:26 + hi all the last community curated DWN expresses enthusiasm for a logo design which wasn't included in the poll (because absent from the wiki), however this doesn't means that logo has been choosen. As discussions followed it was clear that a design group is forming to work together in the good spirit of cooperation rather than competition. I recommend the design group to not overlook the results of this poll, because we should be listening to our community preference and because people have submitted other valid logos that have been voted up. I'm sorry to read on IRC that Atari314 left with bitternes thinking that his/her logo was excluded. It is not so! and in fact that is one of the first placed logos in the poll. A fellow VUA has ...anonymously setup a logo survey here https://it.surveymonkey.com/s/PJT8T3Q FYI, here are the results of the poll after 32 answers: 1- Negative galaxy logos: 24 points 2- Atari314: 18 points 3- Devuan rainbow/swirl: 14 points 4- Devaun logo: 8 points 5- D-spiral text: 6 points 6- Spiral double/two-spike: 6 points anything else is below those points. reference: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Logo as of the design group proposal here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-art/tree/fix-1/logo let me express my personal concern about the logo being too close to that of Debian, something that will likely be turned down by the final VUA decision. Please consider more logos from the poll! ciao -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng _ The Free Email with so much more! = http://www.MuchoMail.com = ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:39:26 + From: Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design Message-ID: 20150212103926.GA14149@fork Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 let me express my personal concern about the logo being too close to that of Debian, something that will likely be turned down by the final VUA decision. Please consider more logos from the poll! My suggestion for devuan logo http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan-logo-2.svg_-_Inkscape.png Regards, DraganFOSS ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
On 02/12/2015 07:39 AM, Jaromil wrote: hi all the last community curated DWN expresses enthusiasm for a logo design which wasn't included in the poll (because absent from the wiki), *** I want to clear a misunderstanding. I wrote this article in DWN, entirely on my own, and I requested it from Noel to be able to introduce the #devuan-www team. I'm very sorry that it created such confusion and led Atari314 to his decision of leaving the project, and I hope he reconsiders. The concern Atari314 and Jaromil expressed was about democracy and listening to the community, and especially for Atari314, that point was even more important than the logo itself. Atari314 and I had a couple of conversations last night and this morning, where I assured him two things: if bureaucracy kicks in in Devuan, I'll be first to kick its ass, and he responded that I would be second, after him. I assume he will be back otherwise he cannot comply. I want to explain why I think the poll is a wrong idea, and why I think this has nothing to do with democracy. I'm asking you to bear with the emerging design team, at least until after Devuan Jessie Alpha is released, which will be sooner than later. If after that the community still thinks I was wrong to take this path, I'll resign without a fuss (the second point in my conversation with Atari314). While nextime has been working almost on his own, without any public appearance, nobody has been saying anything about how he should do it. It's not democratic, but so far, everybody expects that he's doing the right thing. While jaromil has been designing his toy SDK, hacking away night and day while trying to keep the community's voice and softness and inclusiveness, nobody came to knock at his door telling him how to do it. Everybody is waiting patiently to see what's cooking. Nobody enters the kitchen to bother the cook, yet everybody enjoys the meal. Yet, when it comes to design, everybody has a strong opinion about how things work and how they should look like. Don't worry, I'm one of you. I proposed an esoterically-complex logo, and kickstarted the Category:Logo on the without-systemd wiki. But I didn't except that anyone would call for a vote: design by committee is a horrible path to take. As soon as I saw the poll proposal, I denounced it, and naturally got closer to the people who were thinking alike. Yet, I didn't propose *my* logo as the direction to take. Neither did I *choose* a logo *implementation* among logos implementations. What I did is gather a couple of people, discuss ideas with them, we all agreed on a path and *a direction for the logo*, which incidentally seems to be reflected in the current results of the poll: - it should remind of Debian, for continuity - it should use a swirl-D, because d is a natural swirl Both the Negative Galaxy logo proposal, Atari314's spiral-d logo proposal, the two most-voted logo proposals so far, and Alban's proposal all share the same characteristics. So there's no drama about where we're going: I should not have written it darn looks like the Devuan logo about Alban's, but the above. I expected looks like to be sufficiently vague as to convey that we're *working on designing a logo from an idea of a swirl-d*, not choosing from any proposed implementation. This is exactly why I thought *the poll was a bad idea*: it favors a canonical situation of [bikeshedding][0] that seriously gets in the way of productivity. So really, there's no reason to dramatize the situation, we're just a young project with a strong legacy, and we're trying to find our marks. There's *nothing about democracy here*: don't tell me a dozen logo designs and a hundred votes are any representative of the Devuan community, if you consider that the first alpha release is yet to be done! *Please bear with us.* You're welcome to join #devuan-www, but not for bikeshedding there. We're on a solid track and we intend, as a team, to pursue it at least until we deliver our first product. After that, you may judge us what we've done, not for what you think we're doing wrong. If we fail, it will certainly be time to take another direction. We're listening, and we're of course part of this community. == hk [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality -- _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom (_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
I also like the last logo the best. It's not on the survey, however. -Jude On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Dima Krasner d...@dimakrasner.com wrote: My vote goes to the last logo from http://albancrommer.github.io/devuan/Logo_2ndpass.pdf (D with a spiral). The typography is great. On Sun, 8 Feb 2015 10:55:57 + Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: hi all, as the time approaches for an alpha release, wouldn't be bad to have a design in place for Devuan or perhaps an beta design on which to gather reactions. We had many logo submissions as one can see here http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Logo And even one complete design study by Alban Crommel http://albancrommer.github.io/devuan/ well inspired by discussions on this list, still leaving the logo option open. If anyone here has some spare time we'd appreciate some help setting up a poll to understand what are the preferred logos by people here. The poll can be set as an independent website, possibly ads and subscription free. We can also use a thread on this list, I'm not sure what's best. The VUAs reserve the right to choose the winner, but really that is just to make sure things won't go terribly wrong in this selection :^) My logo favs: 1- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Spiral_double_3.jpg 2- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Negative_galaxy_banner.png 3- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devaun_logo1.png 4- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan_2_atari314.png We will award the logo winner with a prize of 100 EURO We will award the web design as well with a prize of 100 EURO We will award the desktop design as well with the prize of 100 EURO There is only one submission for the web design and no submission yet for the desktop design (XFCE4 based, background, icon set and color set) Invite your designer friends to participate! :^) Submissions are still open. ciao -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil -- Dima Krasner, dimakrasner.com ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
On Sun, 2015-02-08 at 18:03 +, Jaromil wrote: hi, A fellow VUA has ...anonymously setup a logo survey here https://it.surveymonkey.com/s/PJT8T3Q I don't know if I managed to vote: Got this (and I don't speak Italian Grazie per aver partecipato all'indagine. Ora puoi creare la tua indagine: è gratuito, veloce e facile. * Crea indagini gratis in pochi minuti * Puoi porre le domande in formati diversi: scelta in un elenco, inserimento testo e altro * Ottieni le risposte a qualsiasi tipo di domanda ISCRIVITI A SURVEYMONKEY OGGI STESSO Registrati GRATIS ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
hi, A fellow VUA has ...anonymously setup a logo survey here https://it.surveymonkey.com/s/PJT8T3Q On Sun, 08 Feb 2015, hellekin wrote: On 02/08/2015 07:55 AM, Jaromil wrote: We had many logo submissions as one can see here http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Logo *** Without-Systemd.org is behind an anti-Tor Cloudflare wall. Please disable it! unfortunately this is not up to us. cloudflare is terrible indeed. but spam is also terrible and having run large wikis However, I don't think this is a priority now. I still cannot imagine why someone would want to be strictly anonymous while accessing that. And even one complete design study by Alban Crommel http://albancrommer.github.io/devuan/ well inspired by discussions on this list, still leaving the logo option open. *** I hate to say it but I judge the quality of a web design with lynx -dump and the View Without style option of Firefox. Appearance is not to be confused with design. My desktop usage is also 90% text based and I can see very well this design using both lynx or elinks. I guess it is also quite friendly for those accessing it via speech synthesis, imagining the first links on tops will disappear once its off github. However: more contributions welcome! ciao -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
My vote goes to the last logo from http://albancrommer.github.io/devuan/Logo_2ndpass.pdf (D with a spiral). The typography is great. On Sun, 8 Feb 2015 10:55:57 + Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: hi all, as the time approaches for an alpha release, wouldn't be bad to have a design in place for Devuan or perhaps an beta design on which to gather reactions. We had many logo submissions as one can see here http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Logo And even one complete design study by Alban Crommel http://albancrommer.github.io/devuan/ well inspired by discussions on this list, still leaving the logo option open. If anyone here has some spare time we'd appreciate some help setting up a poll to understand what are the preferred logos by people here. The poll can be set as an independent website, possibly ads and subscription free. We can also use a thread on this list, I'm not sure what's best. The VUAs reserve the right to choose the winner, but really that is just to make sure things won't go terribly wrong in this selection :^) My logo favs: 1- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Spiral_double_3.jpg 2- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Negative_galaxy_banner.png 3- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devaun_logo1.png 4- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan_2_atari314.png We will award the logo winner with a prize of 100€ We will award the web design as well with a prize of 100€ We will award the desktop design as well with the prize of 100€ There is only one submission for the web design and no submission yet for the desktop design (XFCE4 based, background, icon set and color set) Invite your designer friends to participate! :^) Submissions are still open. ciao -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil -- Dima Krasner, dimakrasner.com pgpD7a7QA_elv.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
Ola! _Vote_: Why don't you guys install a poll plugin [1] on the w/systemd wiki ? Simple install, free and well known platform, reusable and meaningul users list. _Contest_: Bit of a rushed and short-sighted process IMO. 1. You'll be living with it for years. Don't go for a one-shot logo. Go for long term guidelines and establish a strong identity. The logo will come naturally. 2. Competition Sucks, Collaboration Matters. Beauty contests are exactly the inverse of that idea. Why not Do It Together? Works for code and everything else. Hence, I'd like designers who feel the same to regroup. No management, just talking about who's on what with the restriction of providing open source assets (ex: icons, research, etc.) in a repository, all under Creative Commons, reusable by others. Regarding money, if collaborative proposals win, why not give it to EFF || Gnu || whatever non profit? In the end, we'd get both the collaboration and the voting (which I recognize as a fast, clear decision provider) Go go go ? _Design_: regarding hellekin's point on web design, well it was a bit of a rushed job. Accessibility MUST be considered but I didn't have the time. Cheers a: [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Poll_extensions Le 08/02/2015 11:55, Jaromil a écrit : hi all, as the time approaches for an alpha release, wouldn't be bad to have a design in place for Devuan or perhaps an beta design on which to gather reactions. We had many logo submissions as one can see here http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Logo And even one complete design study by Alban Crommel http://albancrommer.github.io/devuan/ well inspired by discussions on this list, still leaving the logo option open. If anyone here has some spare time we'd appreciate some help setting up a poll to understand what are the preferred logos by people here. The poll can be set as an independent website, possibly ads and subscription free. We can also use a thread on this list, I'm not sure what's best. The VUAs reserve the right to choose the winner, but really that is just to make sure things won't go terribly wrong in this selection :^) My logo favs: 1- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Spiral_double_3.jpg 2- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Negative_galaxy_banner.png 3- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devaun_logo1.png 4- http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan_2_atari314.png We will award the logo winner with a prize of 100€ We will award the web design as well with a prize of 100€ We will award the desktop design as well with the prize of 100€ There is only one submission for the web design and no submission yet for the desktop design (XFCE4 based, background, icon set and color set) Invite your designer friends to participate! :^) Submissions are still open. ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015, Alban Crommer wrote: Ola! Vote: Why don't you guys install a poll plugin [1] on the w/systemd wiki ? Simple install, free and well known platform, reusable and meaningul users list. [1] [1]http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Poll_extensions not sure who is maintaining the without-systemd wiki, lets ask around. however surveymonkey seems allright just the acclaimed D logo is missing. Contest: Bit of a rushed and short-sighted process IMO. yea, its mostly to have a sense of what people like 1. You'll be living with it for years. Don't go for a one-shot logo. Go for long term guidelines and establish a strong identity. The logo will come naturally. up to you then really, I'm very fine with having you in charge of the design and other VUAs too. 2. Competition Sucks, Collaboration Matters. Beauty contests are exactly the inverse of that idea. Why not Do It Together? Works for code and everything else. Hence, I'd like designers who feel the same to regroup. this is a very good attitude and you are right. If there is need for a wiki, git repo and mailinglist for designers I'd be happy to make you admin of a gitlab group, from there you'll be able to create more users. the mailinglist can come slightly later once we are ready with the listservers, however it seems that via gitlab issues and wiki a good workflow can be established. No management, just talking about who's on what with the restriction of providing open source assets (ex: icons, research, etc.) in a repository, all under Creative Commons, reusable by others. agree. ciao -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
I would vote for http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Negative_galaxy_banner.png but I would change the direction of the spirals, now they are in the opposite direction to text, creating some dissonance. I think it's better to avoid any resemblance to debian logo, for obvious reasons. And we should first vote for ideas, not implementations, so that in the second stage everyone could draw own version of the winning idea. 2015-02-08 22:13 GMT+01:00, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org: On Sun, 08 Feb 2015, Alban Crommer wrote: Ola! Vote: Why don't you guys install a poll plugin [1] on the w/systemd wiki ? Simple install, free and well known platform, reusable and meaningul users list. [1] [1]http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Poll_extensions not sure who is maintaining the without-systemd wiki, lets ask around. however surveymonkey seems allright just the acclaimed D logo is missing. Contest: Bit of a rushed and short-sighted process IMO. yea, its mostly to have a sense of what people like 1. You'll be living with it for years. Don't go for a one-shot logo. Go for long term guidelines and establish a strong identity. The logo will come naturally. up to you then really, I'm very fine with having you in charge of the design and other VUAs too. 2. Competition Sucks, Collaboration Matters. Beauty contests are exactly the inverse of that idea. Why not Do It Together? Works for code and everything else. Hence, I'd like designers who feel the same to regroup. this is a very good attitude and you are right. If there is need for a wiki, git repo and mailinglist for designers I'd be happy to make you admin of a gitlab group, from there you'll be able to create more users. the mailinglist can come slightly later once we are ready with the listservers, however it seems that via gitlab issues and wiki a good workflow can be established. No management, just talking about who's on what with the restriction of providing open source assets (ex: icons, research, etc.) in a repository, all under Creative Commons, reusable by others. agree. ciao -- Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000) We are free to share code and we code to share freedom Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
If Google Translate has any accuracy, it means your vote was registered (it's the usual Survey Monkey message, but in Italian). -Jude 2015-02-08 13:38 GMT-05:00 Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com: On Sun, 2015-02-08 at 18:03 +, Jaromil wrote: hi, A fellow VUA has ...anonymously setup a logo survey here https://it.surveymonkey.com/s/PJT8T3Q I don't know if I managed to vote: Got this (and I don't speak Italian Grazie per aver partecipato all'indagine. Ora puoi creare la tua indagine: è gratuito, veloce e facile. * Crea indagini gratis in pochi minuti * Puoi porre le domande in formati diversi: scelta in un elenco, inserimento testo e altro * Ottieni le risposte a qualsiasi tipo di domanda ISCRIVITI A SURVEYMONKEY OGGI STESSO Registrati GRATIS ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Community polls on Devuan design
Ola! You'll find all inkscape sources and more (typo, images) on https://github.com/albancrommer/devuan The typo _is_ indeed a beauty. It's Fira Sans, commissioned by mozilla, free, available for a lot of languages, with variants from UltraLight to UltraBold. In other words, what a project like Devuan needs. For more details, see my first proposal : https://github.com/albancrommer/devuan/blob/master/Logo_2ndpass.pdf?raw=true :a! Le 08/02/2015 19:36, hellekin a écrit : On 02/08/2015 03:19 PM, Dima Krasner wrote: My vote goes to the last logo from http://albancrommer.github.io/devuan/Logo_2ndpass.pdf (D with a spiral). The typography is great. *** I like the idea of the spiral inside the D as well. It's vastly superior to every other proposal IMO. What font is it? I'd like to see more versions (and SVG files) of this idea. == hk ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
