Re: [Dorset] Hi all from Weymouth
On 05/11/10 21:53, StarLion wrote: Since then, I've gone through two laptops and three tower PCs, using Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Slackware, Wolvix, and then finally my current favoured distro Arch. I'm an Arch user too :) I've broken systems more than once with my incessant experimenting (like it's a rather bad idea to remove bash...), but on the other hand through experimenting I've learned more than I ever have by just reading the (don't)readmes, man pages and so on. Sounds familiar! In my early days I used to have to do a clean re-install about once a month... Welcome to the LUG. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Hi all from Weymouth
> > but so far only my younger > brother (A recent Ubuntu to Arch convert) and my mother (Who uses > Vinux - Ubuntu for the Visually Impaired) have adopted the system. I think converting two people is quite an achievement ;-) If you don't mind, can you tell me a little bit more about Vinux? How quickly/easily or not your mother adapted to it? Can she maintain her computer herself or is it helpful to her to have you on hand (basically, is there a lot of maintenance and tweaking required or does it work well out of the box)? I'm always particularly interested to hear about Linux solutions for users with impairments (my partner works in the charity sector). -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Hi all from Weymouth
On 6 November 2010 10:03, Natalie Hooper wrote: > If you don't mind, can you tell me a little bit more about Vinux? How > quickly/easily or not your mother adapted to it? Can she maintain her > computer herself or is it helpful to her to have you on hand (basically, is > there a lot of maintenance and tweaking required or does it work well out > of the box)? I'm always particularly interested to hear about Linux > solutions for users with impairments (my partner works in the charity > sector). VInux itself uses a Ubuntu base, so like Ubuntu it 'just works' mostly. It takes advantage of the various accessibility settings, such as the Orca screen reader and the high-contrast GTK themes. Once I explained the menu and where to find things, she found it easy to use. She already uses Firefox, so no issues getting lost there. The only part that I keep getting called in for is package management via Synaptic. I've explained it to her, but after several experiences on Windows where installing something turned out badly, she won't tell it to make any changes until I check on them. On the other hand, upgrades she'll allow safely without checking. She knows a friend who's actually totally blind, who's also had a look (No pun intended) at it. She's a Windows user herself, but admits that it's quite an intuitive solution. I think VInux is still on DistroWatch - the website has some preview videos that try to show what it does. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
[Dorset] Possible Bournemouth Meeting place
The other week mention was made of looking for a new meeting location for the Bournemouth area, I think Peter mentioned Colehill Cricket Club near Wimborne. Today I called in to ask if a room was possible - Yes. Details are: Location:- top of Rowlands Hill, Wimborne. Bus route No 13 from B'mouth (approx 1 hr), will check times for late night but believe they run back to B'mouth around 22:30 / 23:00 hrs. Bus stop within 50 mtrs. Room available FREE (if drinks from bar used!), would seat 12/15 with table(s) in centre. Or could use main hall/bar. Car park. No wireless though. Explained situation to Manager and seems quite helpful, requires 2 weeks notice to ensure room set up OK. Any thoughts? Do we try it out next year? I'm willing to be the go between as I live locally. Clive. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Ubuntu failed update....
Hi Peter, > Here's my ouptput from that command :- > > $ sudo grep 'plugin.*StartUpgrade' */main.log main.log > 20101005-2042/main.log:2009-07-11 11:56:26,187 DEBUG plugins for condition > 'jauntyStartUpgrade' are '[]' > 20101005-2042/main.log:2009-07-11 11:56:26,187 DEBUG plugins for condition > 'from_intrepidStartUpgrade' are '[]' > 20101009-0629/main.log:2010-10-05 23:03:22,739 DEBUG plugins for condition > 'karmicStartUpgrade' are '[]' > 20101009-0629/main.log:2010-10-05 23:03:22,739 DEBUG plugins for condition > 'from_jauntyStartUpgrade' are '[]' > main.log:2010-10-09 06:54:02,887 DEBUG plugins for condition > 'lucidStartUpgrade' are '[]' > main.log:2010-10-09 06:54:02,888 DEBUG plugins for condition > 'from_karmicStartUpgrade' are '[]' > > > that, on this machine, suggests > > > > Â Â 2009-05-15 Â 8.10 -> 9.04 > > Â Â 2010-05-27 Â 9.04 -> 9.10 > > Â Â 2010-07-11 Â 9.10 -> 10.04 > > I've completely forgotten now what I actually said about my upgrade > path, but it seems as though I have followed the same route as you > did. Yes, but it's actually that you followed the same path on your laptop as you did on your desktop. I ssh'd into your desktop machine to get the data since I'm still 8.04. :-) Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] gcc linker question - segments
Hi Tim, > Found a solution to this by adding additional "MEMORY" clauses. > Possibly not the most elegant solution but does work. Glad to hear you've a solution. I'd have guessed SUBALIGN may help but I've never tried it. http://sourceware.org/binutils/docs-2.20/ld/Forced-Input-Alignment.html Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] 10 Things I'd change in linux
Hi, jr wrote: > > 2. Clearer organisation for data and settings saved by apps would be > > great. Whenever I look for data or settings saved by an app, I need > > to google to find out which folder that app saves its data and > > settings to. > > yes, things used to be easier before the 'Windoze-ification' of Linux > started; most app's will create user-specific stuff somewhere below > your (user) home, system-wide app settings are commonly found below > '/etc/', '/usr/lib/' or '/usr/share'. I find that the various > sections of the manual often detail the locations. It used to be that you'd just refer to the FILES section of the man page to find this out. There was a time when Google didn't exist, Unix benefitted from the excellent documentation it shipped with, and this placed pressure on newcomers to maintain that high standard. GOML! `FILES' can still be seen in things like vim(1) and python(1). (If man gives the page to you in less(1) then searching for uppercase will match only uppercase, e.g. type "/FILES".) Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] 10 Things I'd change in linux
Hi John, > (1) Create a way to share files between machines on a LAN really > easily that doesn't hang the system if the network goes away. SAMBA > is too complex. sshfs can hang a whole machine if a network goes > down. I'd like to see Plan9's approach of everything being a filesystem. This is similar to Unix's "devices are files" approach but far more flexible. The mouse driver presents a filesystem, so does the "screen", the connection to an IRC server, IMAP, etc. Talking to all these is done with the same 9P protocol. Consequently, once the "mount" of the filesystem is done into the process's "namespace" the user doesn't care if the filesystem server is local or remote. Linux supports 9P and I did hear there were rumours of something similar to namespaces being added to Linux's process model, so maybe given time... Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] 10 Things I'd change in linux
Hi Natalie, > I never said "automated GUIs". CLI options can be presented in a GUI > with documentation available when you click the "?" button for > example. There is no need to dumb anything down, just to be a bit more > graphical in the way an app interact with the user (who may choose to > use the CLI but it should be a choice, not an obligation). In some > instances, a GUI could also say "for such and such options, use the > CLI". Like it or not, users are getting used to touch screens and > such, so having to type in text (or copy and paste text) seems a bit > unfriendly to them. GUI is only about presentation and interaction, > it's not about anything automated, it's not about content. I remember when things like Tcl/Tk came along, there was a GUI application that would poke about the output of a command's --help output and concoct a GUI form allowing the user to invoke the command after deciding its arguments. Not robust, obviously, but it's not a new idea. The problem is that text is so much more expressive than the limited palette a GUI can present from which the same desired outcome needs to be expressed. What tends to happen when faced with this is the palette becomes bigger, hierarchical, more complex, and therefore only of use to more expert users, defeating its initial purpose. Sure, for some users they should never need or see a command line. They've limited use for the machine, web, email but probably webmail, local media playing, e.g. DVD. The user account can be locked down, present them with a limited interface, and they're happy. I suspect a few of us know of relatives that want nothing more. But once a user wants to do a bit more. Pick and choose applications, install fonts, and generally wander more off of a chosen path then I don't think it's unreasonable that they should have to know about the command line so they can execute the help given or questions asked when there are problems. For starters, it's quite possible that there is no GUI way of doing the particular combination of commands sought because unless the GUI-programmer foresaw that particular need the GUI won't be able to do it; we're back to the lack of expressiveness above. The second major problem is even if the GUI provides the mechanism to do what's desired the actions have to be expressed in words, e.g. on a forum! System -> Preferences -> ... -> ... tab -> right-click ... and so on. It's tedious for the advice-giver to work out, although he knows it's important to be precise, and users rarely understand that importance when reporting a problem so a lot of the helper's time can be wasted. So it's far easier for the advice to be in the form of a command line that can be cut-and-pasted and the output to be similarly sent back, even if the GUI did happen to support it. For everyday actions, sure, have a GUI for the user to click through but I don't think it's realistic to expect all unwanted behaviour to be investigated only through a GUI. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Possible Bournemouth Meeting place
Hi Clive, > The other week mention was made of looking for a new meeting location > for the Bournemouth area, I think Peter mentioned Colehill Cricket > Club near Wimborne. Today I called in to ask if a room was possible - > Yes. Is this it? http://www.wimbornecricketclub.co.uk/ground/ > Any thoughts? Do we try it out next year? Sounds fine to me, but then I drive so it's really up to those who public transport it from Bournemouth to speak up. Also, the next meeting, December, should be Bournemouth but we've got to decide on a quiet night at The Broadway. Victor, any ideas what they do when? Things may get busy nearer Christmas. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Crown Hotel, Blandford Forum, Tuesday 2010-11-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
