Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
Cheers, Peter Terry said If you do a clean install, at least you will know that there is nothing hanging around that is upsetting things. I have downloaded the new version of Raspian Stretch lite, and configured it, and it works straight in on my desired wireless lan IP. The only extra change that I made, and I doubt it had any effect, was to comment out the command to generate stable IPv6 addresses. Thanks to all for your help. Peter -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
Hi Peter, > > Does your router know your LAN is 192.168.1.0/27, and not /24? > > I wanted to restrict the number of DHCP addresses available, and at > the same time have a range for fixed addresses. > > Here is my documentation: > > Network 192.168.1.0/27 > Subnet mask 255.255.255.224 > Gateway 192.168.1.1 > Broadcast192.168.1.31 ... > 192.168.1.16-30 DHCP OK. Just seems odd to have a /27 and ensure everything is configured to that so 192.168.1.31 is recognised as a broadcast, not host, address instead of the more normal 192.168.1.255. 192.168.1.0/24 would still allow restricting the DHCP server to a subset of the /8 hosts, and 192.168.{2,3...}.0/24 is available if you need other networks instead of 192.168.1.{32,64...}/27. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On 14/10/18 10:04, Terry Coles wrote: On Sunday, 14 October 2018 09:53:31 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: On 14/10/18 08:06, Terry Coles wrote: Did you reset the Router and then reboot the Pi? I reset the router overnight and this morning the R-Pi connected on IP .21 but I couldn't ssh into it, though replied ok to a ping. But Not .8. Is this the latest version of of Stretch? Was it a clean install or an upgrade? Stretch was updated on the 9th, so there may be something in it that will help you. Thanks Terry, I'll get a clean install of this. Just looking for Release notes, but can't find them. Maybe it's in the package. Cheers, Peter If you do a clean install, at least you will know that there is nothing hanging around that is upsetting things. If that doesn't work, then I can only suggest that your router is to blame in some way. Interesting thought. P. -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On 14/10/18 11:08, Ralph Corderoy wrote: It's not setting your eth0's .9 either. Ethernet is not connected. Does your router know your LAN is 192.168.1.0/27, and not /24? Why did you choose that? Do you have networks and hosts that would fall inside 192.168.1.0/24 but are outside 192.168.1.0/27, e.g. host 192.168.1.33/27? Unless Raspbian has deviated from Debian Stretch in this area, you may do better looking at Debian's documentation and Debian users solving the problem. Also, dhcpd and other programs often log their decisions, and have a `debug' method to increase that logging. Turning that on may explain more. Can't find that on my stupid Talktalk router. I'll have a look around and see if it is in R-Pi. I wanted to restrict the number of DHCP addresses available, and at the same time have a range for fixed addresses. 192.168.1.1-31 is the total range, thus 255.255.255.224 for Subnet mask: Here is my documentation: Network 192.168.1.0 Subnet 255.255.255.224 Gateway 192.168.1.1 Broadcast 192.168.1.31 192.168.1.1 Talktalk Router admin/ pw* ESSID Ashmeads-downstairs 192.168.1.2 Upstairs repeater 3Com router admin/pw1 [Note, otherwise not configured] ESSID: bmth-wireless 192.168.1.3-9 unassigned 192.168.1.10 Downstairs XP PC -- Needs correcting - Now also Kubuntu! 192.168.1.11 Upstairs Linux PC 192.168.1.12 Brother Printer admin/ pw*2 192.168.1.13 unassigned. 192.168.1.14 Envoy Solar Power controller admin/admin 192.168.1.16-30 DHCP Peter -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
Hi Peter, > interface eth0 > static ip_address=192.168.1.9/27 > static routers=192.168.1.1 > static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 8.8.8.8 > > interface wlan0 > static address=192.168.1.8/27 > static routers=192.168.1.1 > static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 ... > pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ifconfig > eth0: flags=4099 mtu 1500 > ether b8:27:eb:b2:f7:c8 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) ... > wlan0: flags=4163 mtu 1500 > inet 192.168.1.21 netmask 255.255.255.224 broadcast 192.168.1.31 > inet6 fe80::2c9:aeca:54e4:fa59 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20 > ether 00:0c:43:00:cc:2d txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) ... > So it is not setting my static .8 It's not setting your eth0's .9 either. Does your router know your LAN is 192.168.1.0/27, and not /24? Why did you choose that? Do you have networks and hosts that would fall inside 192.168.1.0/24 but are outside 192.168.1.0/27, e.g. host 192.168.1.33/27? Unless Raspbian has deviated from Debian Stretch in this area, you may do better looking at Debian's documentation and Debian users solving the problem. Also, dhcpd and other programs often log their decisions, and have a `debug' method to increase that logging. Turning that on may explain more. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On Sunday, 14 October 2018 10:04:38 BST Terry Coles wrote: > If that doesn't work, then I can only suggest that your router is to blame > in some way. Come to think of it; I assume that your Router is set up to serve up addresses in a DHCP Range outside the ,8 that you want? If this has worked before, I would imagine that it must be. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On Sunday, 14 October 2018 09:53:31 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: > On 14/10/18 08:06, Terry Coles wrote: > > Did you reset the Router and then reboot the Pi? > > I reset the router overnight and this morning the R-Pi connected on IP > .21 but I couldn't ssh into it, though replied ok to a ping. But Not .8. Is this the latest version of of Stretch? Was it a clean install or an upgrade? Stretch was updated on the 9th, so there may be something in it that will help you. If you do a clean install, at least you will know that there is nothing hanging around that is upsetting things. If that doesn't work, then I can only suggest that your router is to blame in some way. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On 14/10/18 08:06, Terry Coles wrote: On Saturday, 13 October 2018 21:37:41 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: wlan0: flags=4163 mtu 1500 inet 192.168.1.21 netmask 255.255.255.224 broadcast 192.168.1.31 inet6 fe80::2c9:aeca:54e4:fa59 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20 ether 00:0c:43:00:cc:2d txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) RX packets 246 bytes 29738 (29.0 KiB) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 119 bytes 17189 (16.7 KiB) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 So it is not setting my static .8 Did you reset the Router and then reboot the Pi? I reset the router overnight and this morning the R-Pi connected on IP .21 but I couldn't ssh into it, though replied ok to a ping. But Not .8. Peter -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On 14/10/18 08:01, Terry Coles wrote: On Saturday, 13 October 2018 21:37:41 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: and this is what I have: # Example static IP configuration: interface eth0 static ip_address=192.168.1.9/27 static routers=192.168.1.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 8.8.8.8 interface wlan0 static address=192.168.1.8/27 static routers=192.168.1.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 So it is not setting my static . .. Have you still got any old files hanging around; eg interfaces? No. Interfaces file was deleted and I let the system create a new one. Peter -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 21:37:41 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: > wlan0: flags=4163 mtu 1500 > inet 192.168.1.21 netmask 255.255.255.224 broadcast 192.168.1.31 > inet6 fe80::2c9:aeca:54e4:fa59 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20 > ether 00:0c:43:00:cc:2d txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) > RX packets 246 bytes 29738 (29.0 KiB) > RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 > TX packets 119 bytes 17189 (16.7 KiB) > TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 > > So it is not setting my static .8 Did you reset the Router and then reboot the Pi? -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 21:37:41 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: > and this is what I have: > # Example static IP configuration: > interface eth0 > static ip_address=192.168.1.9/27 > static routers=192.168.1.1 > static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 8.8.8.8 > > interface wlan0 > static address=192.168.1.8/27 > static routers=192.168.1.1 > static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 > > So it is not setting my static . .. Have you still got any old files hanging around; eg interfaces? -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 16:33:03 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: > I'll give it a whirl, but it does mean that I have to get it working in > order to ssh into it and change the files. I just spotted this. You can edit the files on another machine if you remove the SDCard and mount it. I often do this when I want to copy a program that I've developed initially on my desktop and want to transfer it to the Pi. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On 13/10/18 17:07, Terry Coles wrote: Forward to the list this time instead of to Peter! Doh! BTW, in the example that I posted below you also have to change the IP Addresses to suit your setup of course. On Saturday, 13 October 2018 16:49:09 BST Terry Coles wrote: On Saturday, 13 October 2018 16:33:03 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: This appears to be the most recent posting that I could find: https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=205276 ^ ... 2. This is the second time that I have seen that the interface name is redefined into something containing the MAC address rather than eth0 etc that we are used to. 3 I have re-read this one and it looks like in the last section I can disable DHCP and revert to the mode of operation that I am used to. It's two years old though. https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/37920/how-do-i-set-up-netw or king-wifi-static-ip-address I'll give it a whirl, but it does mean that I have to get it working in order to ssh into it and change the files. I'm slightly confused. Why do you want to revert to the old way to set a static IP addressI That way you'll have to do it every time Raspbian is updated. The instructions in the link that I highlighted above worked fine for me. Here is the code that you need to put into dhcpd.conf: interface eth0 # Change this to whatever your Ethernet portname is static ip_address=192.168.0.103/24 static routers=192.168.0.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.0.1 1.1.1.1 1.0.0.1 interface wlan0 # Change this to whatever your WiFi portname is static ip_address=192.168.0.103/24 static routers=192.168.0.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.0.1 1.1.1.1 1.0.0.1 and this is what I have: # Example static IP configuration: interface eth0 static ip_address=192.168.1.9/27 static routers=192.168.1.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 8.8.8.8 interface wlan0 static address=192.168.1.8/27 static routers=192.168.1.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 and when I connect to the Pi [on address 21] pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ifconfig eth0: flags=4099 mtu 1500 ether b8:27:eb:b2:f7:c8 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 lo: flags=73 mtu 65536 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0 inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128 scopeid 0x10 loop txqueuelen 1000 (Local Loopback) RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 wlan0: flags=4163 mtu 1500 inet 192.168.1.21 netmask 255.255.255.224 broadcast 192.168.1.31 inet6 fe80::2c9:aeca:54e4:fa59 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20 ether 00:0c:43:00:cc:2d txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) RX packets 246 bytes 29738 (29.0 KiB) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 119 bytes 17189 (16.7 KiB) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 So it is not setting my static .8 I'll have another look at your link to see if there is anything else I should set: Meanwhile: pi@raspberrypi:/etc $ cat dhcpcd.conf # A sample configuration for dhcpcd. # See dhcpcd.conf(5) for details. # Allow users of this group to interact with dhcpcd via the control socket. #controlgroup wheel # Inform the DHCP server of our hostname for DDNS. hostname # Use the hardware address of the interface for the Client ID. clientid # or # Use the same DUID + IAID as set in DHCPv6 for DHCPv4 ClientID as per RFC4361. # Some non-RFC compliant DHCP servers do not reply with this set. # In this case, comment out duid and enable clientid above. #duid # Persist interface configuration when dhcpcd exits. persistent # Rapid commit support. # Safe to enable by default because it requires the equivalent option set # on the server to actually work. option rapid_commit # A list of options to request from the DHCP server. option domain_name_servers, domain_name, domain_search, host_name option classless_static_routes # Most distributions have NTP support. option ntp_servers # Respect the network MTU. This is applied to DHCP routes. option interface_mtu # A ServerID is required by RFC2131. require dhcp_server_identifier # Generate Stable Private IPv6 Addresses instead of hardware based ones slaac private # Example static IP configuration: interface eth0 static ip_address=192.168.1.9/27 static routers=192.168.1.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 8.8.8.8 interface wlan0 static address=192.168.1.8/27 static routers=192.168.1.1 static domain_name_servers=192.168.1.1 # It is possible to fall back to a static IP if DHCP fails: # define static profile #profile static_eth0 #static ip_address=192.168.1.23/24 #static routers=192.168.1.1 #st
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
Forward to the list this time instead of to Peter! Doh! BTW, in the example that I posted below you also have to change the IP Addresses to suit your setup of course. On Saturday, 13 October 2018 16:49:09 BST Terry Coles wrote: > On Saturday, 13 October 2018 16:33:03 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: > > > This appears to be the most recent posting that I could find: > > > > > > https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=205276 > > ^ > ... > > > 2. This is the second time that I have seen that the interface name is > > redefined into something containing the MAC address rather than eth0 etc > > that we are used to. > > > > 3 I have re-read this one and it looks like in the last section I can > > disable DHCP and revert to the mode of operation that I am used to. It's > > two years old though. > > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/37920/how-do-i-set-up-netw > > or king-wifi-static-ip-address > > > > I'll give it a whirl, but it does mean that I have to get it working in > > order to ssh into it and change the files. > > I'm slightly confused. Why do you want to revert to the old way to set a > static IP addressI That way you'll have to do it every time Raspbian is > updated. The instructions in the link that I highlighted above worked fine > for me. > > Here is the code that you need to put into dhcpd.conf: > > interface eth0# Change this to whatever your Ethernet portname > is > static ip_address=192.168.0.103/24 > static routers=192.168.0.1 > static domain_name_servers=192.168.0.1 1.1.1.1 1.0.0.1 > > interface wlan0 # Change this to whatever your WiFi portname is > static ip_address=192.168.0.103/24 > static routers=192.168.0.1 > static domain_name_servers=192.168.0.1 1.1.1.1 1.0.0.1 -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On 13/10/18 07:41, Terry Coles wrote: On Friday, 12 October 2018 21:21:16 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: Does anyone know anything about how to configure this for a static address for my Raspberry Pi? With the latest version of Raspbian [Stretch] They have changed the way that the network is configured. In the old system I used to paste in my two standard files [Interfaces & wpa_supplicant.conf] and away it went. ... Any ideas welcome. The R-Pi forums haven't been much use. Have you seen this one: https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=192314 The default names for the interfaces changed with Stretch so re-using an old set of files won't work. I had to do it fairly recently (definitely with Stretch) and I had to make the static IP Address declaration in dhcp.conf, if I recall. I can't remember what else I changed, but I used the instructions that I found on the Internet. I note that the Tutorials at 'ModMyPi' are now years out of date and still use the interfaces file to set the IP Address. This appears to be the most recent posting that I could find: https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=205276 1. Most tutorials are now out of date, it seems. 2. This is the second time that I have seen that the interface name is redefined into something containing the MAC address rather than eth0 etc that we are used to. 3 I have re-read this one and it looks like in the last section I can disable DHCP and revert to the mode of operation that I am used to. It's two years old though. https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/37920/how-do-i-set-up-networking-wifi-static-ip-address I'll give it a whirl, but it does mean that I have to get it working in order to ssh into it and change the files. Till then... Peter -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
On Friday, 12 October 2018 21:21:16 BST PeterMerchant via dorset wrote: > Does anyone know anything about how to configure this for a static > address for my Raspberry Pi? > > With the latest version of Raspbian [Stretch] They have changed the way > that the network is configured. In the old system I used to paste in my > two standard files [Interfaces & wpa_supplicant.conf] and away it went. ... > Any ideas welcome. The R-Pi forums haven't been much use. Have you seen this one: https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=192314 The default names for the interfaces changed with Stretch so re-using an old set of files won't work. I had to do it fairly recently (definitely with Stretch) and I had to make the static IP Address declaration in dhcp.conf, if I recall. I can't remember what else I changed, but I used the instructions that I found on the Internet. I note that the Tutorials at 'ModMyPi' are now years out of date and still use the interfaces file to set the IP Address. This appears to be the most recent posting that I could find: https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=205276 -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
[Dorset] DHCPCD.conf configuration for static addresses in a Raspberry Pi
Does anyone know anything about how to configure this for a static address for my Raspberry Pi? With the latest version of Raspbian [Stretch] They have changed the way that the network is configured. In the old system I used to paste in my two standard files [Interfaces & wpa_supplicant.conf] and away it went. I want to have a fixed IP address for my Pi, usually 192.168.1.8. My DHCP range is from 192.168.1.16- 30 Netmask /27. The documentation I can find tells me how to add some lines specifying 'static IP = x.x.x.x' etc to fix an IP address, which I have done. This on bootup gives the Raspberry Pi both a DHCP address and the desired static IP, but the DHCP address is the only one that I can work with. I have removed all of the configuration except for these 'static' lines from dhcpcd.conf, and the result is a DHCP address and no sign of a fixed/static address. I am using fing on my tablet to see what the IP addresses in the network are. Fing shows the second IP grayed out in the example above. Aside: On my Talktalk (Dlink) router I can find a device and give a device a reserved IP to it's MAC address, but only in the DHCP address range. It won't let me fix a non-DHCP address. Any ideas welcome. The R-Pi forums haven't been much use. Thanks, Peter M. -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk