Re: Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Timo Sirainen]

On 11 Jul 2014, at 12:23, Charles Marcus  wrote:

>> Oh, that's annoying. Dovecot LDA doesn't actually add this header, it was 
>> your MTA that added it. But looks like I hadn't checked what the MTAs 
>> actually write to the header when I added this feature to LMTP, and nobody 
>> had mentioned this before either. I wonder if anybody's system breaks if I 
>> just change it now..
> 
> If you do this Timo, would you please also consider going ahead and adding 
> the 20 or so lines of code you said it would take to also add support for the 
> x-original-to header (this specific was in a private email to me while our 
> support contract was active), as we discussed on this list - and you then 
> discussed with Wietse, back in April or so of 2012:
> 
> http://dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2012-April/082585.html

The problem is still that it would require Dovecot LMTP to start advertising 
the DSN extension, which brings it more responsibilities. I'm still a bit 
scared of doing such change as it would need to be thought out well and to see 
what its impact would be for current MTAs. I'm especially worried that 
different MTAs would behave differently and we might need to add a setting to 
control what Dovecot needs to do.

Re: Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Tobias Franzén]

On 2014-07-11 11:23, Charles Marcus wrote:

On 7/10/2014 11:29 AM, Timo Sirainen  wrote:

On 9.7.2014, at 21.20, Jeff Rice  wrote:

I'm transitioning my server over from using the deliver LDA and 
LMTP.  Suddenly a bunch of sieve filters stopped working, and I 
noticed the contents of the Delivered-To header are different.


Using Dovecot's deliver LDA, the contents are a bare email address 
(f...@bar.com).  Using Dovecot LMTP, they are in brackets 
().  Is there a reason why this isn't consistent 
between the two delivery agents?  It seems like it ought to be.
Oh, that's annoying. Dovecot LDA doesn't actually add this header, it 
was your MTA that added it. But looks like I hadn't checked what the 
MTAs actually write to the header when I added this feature to LMTP, 
and nobody had mentioned this before either. I wonder if anybody's 
system breaks if I just change it now..


If you do this Timo, would you please also consider going ahead and 
adding the 20 or so lines of code you said it would take to also add 
support for the x-original-to header (this specific was in a private 
email to me while our support contract was active), as we discussed on 
this list - and you then discussed with Wietse, back in April or so of 
2012:


http://dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2012-April/082585.html

Thanks!

Charles


I am also very interested in the outcome of these discussions for 
X-Original-To header together with LMTP.


My setup will be migrating from an old Courier-IMAP install with Postfix 
VDA and plan to keep using Postfix but this time with Dovecot and 
potentially Dovecot LMTP. My users have multiple aliases and rely on the 
X-Original-To header for filters, however they mostly reside within the 
same domain handled by the same mail server.


Old threads in this and Postfix mail lists indicate that Timo thinks 
LMTP cannot solve this.
Some of this could possibly be solved for local implementations if LMTP 
can expand aliases itself for local delivery. Is this possible?
In general it seems that LMTP has to rely on previous layers to keep the 
original recipient in for example X-Original-To header.


For reference:
http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2012-04/0179.html
http://dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2012-April/082585.html
http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2014-January/094396.html

Charles, you seem to also have been involved in the following Postfix 
list thread from 2011. Are you using this Postfix workaround detailed at 
the end to add X-Original-To?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mailing.postfix.users/ceRuhB8NFWQ

Postfix/main.cf:
# to make sure Delivered-To header contains only one address
lmtp_destination_recipient_limit=1
# for X-Original-To header
smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
check_recipient_access pcre:/etc/postfix/recipient_access.pcre

/etc/postfix/recipient_access.pcre
/(.+)/prepend X-Original-To: $1


Dovecot:
lda_original_recipient_header = X-Original-To

/Tobias

Re: Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Charles Marcus]

On 7/10/2014 11:29 AM, Timo Sirainen  wrote:

On 9.7.2014, at 21.20, Jeff Rice  wrote:


I'm transitioning my server over from using the deliver LDA and LMTP.  Suddenly 
a bunch of sieve filters stopped working, and I noticed the contents of the 
Delivered-To header are different.

Using Dovecot's deliver LDA, the contents are a bare email address (f...@bar.com).  
Using Dovecot LMTP, they are in brackets ().  Is there a reason 
why this isn't consistent between the two delivery agents?  It seems like it ought to 
be.

Oh, that's annoying. Dovecot LDA doesn't actually add this header, it was your 
MTA that added it. But looks like I hadn't checked what the MTAs actually write 
to the header when I added this feature to LMTP, and nobody had mentioned this 
before either. I wonder if anybody's system breaks if I just change it now..


If you do this Timo, would you please also consider going ahead and 
adding the 20 or so lines of code you said it would take to also add 
support for the x-original-to header (this specific was in a private 
email to me while our support contract was active), as we discussed on 
this list - and you then discussed with Wietse, back in April or so of 2012:


http://dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2012-April/082585.html

Thanks!

Charles

Re: Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Larry Rosenman]

There is no Delivered-To: in Exim, there is an "Envelope-To:" which is
added withOUT the
the angle-brackets(<>)

Return-path: 
Envelope-to: pare...@lerctr.org
Delivery-date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 12:17:54 -0500

Does that help?


On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jeff Rice  wrote:

> I don't know if there is a convention for whether the brackets should be
> included or not.  But consistency is a virtue.  The MTA in question is
> Postfix 2.9.6.  I assumed it was the Dovecot LDA adding the Delivered-To
> header because it was rewritten when I did a redirect in sieve, but
> redirect must put the message back into Postfix's queue where the header
> gets added (or replaced, in this case).
>
> Maybe other folks can chime in if they see emails in brackets (<>) or not
> for this type of header for other MTAs and we can get a sense of which is
> more common.
>
> Jeff
>
>  Timo Sirainen 
>> July 10, 2014 at 11:29 AM
>>
>>
>> Oh, that's annoying. Dovecot LDA doesn't actually add this header, it was
>> your MTA that added it. But looks like I hadn't checked what the MTAs
>> actually write to the header when I added this feature to LMTP, and nobody
>> had mentioned this before either. I wonder if anybody's system breaks if I
>> just change it now..
>>
>> Jeff Rice 
>> July 9, 2014 at 2:20 PM
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm transitioning my server over from using the deliver LDA and LMTP.
>>  Suddenly a bunch of sieve filters stopped working, and I noticed the
>> contents of the Delivered-To header are different.
>>
>> Using Dovecot's deliver LDA, the contents are a bare email address (
>> f...@bar.com).  Using Dovecot LMTP, they are in brackets ().
>>  Is there a reason why this isn't consistent between the two delivery
>> agents?  It seems like it ought to be.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>


-- 
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640 (c) E-Mail: larry...@gmail.com
US Mail: 108 Turvey Cove, Hutto, TX 78634-5688

Re: Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Jeff Rice]

I don't know if there is a convention for whether the brackets should be 
included or not.  But consistency is a virtue.  The MTA in question is 
Postfix 2.9.6.  I assumed it was the Dovecot LDA adding the Delivered-To 
header because it was rewritten when I did a redirect in sieve, but 
redirect must put the message back into Postfix's queue where the header 
gets added (or replaced, in this case).


Maybe other folks can chime in if they see emails in brackets (<>) or 
not for this type of header for other MTAs and we can get a sense of 
which is more common.


Jeff


Timo Sirainen 
July 10, 2014 at 11:29 AM

Oh, that's annoying. Dovecot LDA doesn't actually add this header, it 
was your MTA that added it. But looks like I hadn't checked what the 
MTAs actually write to the header when I added this feature to LMTP, 
and nobody had mentioned this before either. I wonder if anybody's 
system breaks if I just change it now..


Jeff Rice 
July 9, 2014 at 2:20 PM
Hi,
I'm transitioning my server over from using the deliver LDA and LMTP.  
Suddenly a bunch of sieve filters stopped working, and I noticed the 
contents of the Delivered-To header are different.


Using Dovecot's deliver LDA, the contents are a bare email address 
(f...@bar.com).  Using Dovecot LMTP, they are in brackets 
().  Is there a reason why this isn't consistent between 
the two delivery agents?  It seems like it ought to be.


Jeff

Re: Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Timo Sirainen]

On 9.7.2014, at 21.20, Jeff Rice  wrote:

> I'm transitioning my server over from using the deliver LDA and LMTP.  
> Suddenly a bunch of sieve filters stopped working, and I noticed the contents 
> of the Delivered-To header are different.
> 
> Using Dovecot's deliver LDA, the contents are a bare email address 
> (f...@bar.com).  Using Dovecot LMTP, they are in brackets ().  
> Is there a reason why this isn't consistent between the two delivery agents?  
> It seems like it ought to be.

Oh, that's annoying. Dovecot LDA doesn't actually add this header, it was your 
MTA that added it. But looks like I hadn't checked what the MTAs actually write 
to the header when I added this feature to LMTP, and nobody had mentioned this 
before either. I wonder if anybody's system breaks if I just change it now..

Re: Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Reindl Harald]

Am 09.07.2014 20:20, schrieb Jeff Rice:
> I'm transitioning my server over from using the deliver LDA and LMTP.  
> Suddenly a bunch of sieve filters stopped
> working, and I noticed the contents of the Delivered-To header are different.
> 
> Using Dovecot's deliver LDA, the contents are a bare email address 
> (f...@bar.com).  Using Dovecot LMTP, they are in
> brackets ().  Is there a reason why this isn't consistent 
> between the two delivery agents?  It seems
> like it ought to be

LMTP is practically SMTP

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2822.html

A mailbox receives mail.  It is a conceptual entity which does not
   necessarily pertain to file storage.  For example, some sites may
   choose to print mail on a printer and deliver the output to the
   addressee's desk.  Normally, a mailbox is comprised of two parts: (1)
   an optional display name that indicates the name of the recipient
   (which could be a person or a system) that could be displayed to the
   user of a mail application, and (2) an addr-spec address enclosed in
   angle brackets ("<" and ">").  There is also an alternate simple form
   of a mailbox where the addr-spec address appears alone, without the
   recipient's name or the angle brackets.  The Internet addr-spec
   address is described in section 3.4.1.

   Note: Some legacy implementations used the simple form where the
   addr-spec appears without the angle brackets, but included the name
   of the recipient in parentheses as a comment following the addr-spec.
   Since the meaning of the information in a comment is unspecified,
   implementations SHOULD use the full name-addr form of the mailbox,
   instead of the legacy form, to specify the display name associated
   with a mailbox.  Also, because some legacy implementations interpret
   the comment, comments generally SHOULD NOT be used in address fields
   to avoid confusing such implementations.



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Differences in "Delivered-To" header between deliver and LMTP

[Jeff Rice]

Hi,
I'm transitioning my server over from using the deliver LDA and LMTP.  
Suddenly a bunch of sieve filters stopped working, and I noticed the 
contents of the Delivered-To header are different.


Using Dovecot's deliver LDA, the contents are a bare email address 
(f...@bar.com).  Using Dovecot LMTP, they are in brackets 
().  Is there a reason why this isn't consistent between 
the two delivery agents?  It seems like it ought to be.


Jeff