Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
Drear Sirs, Thanks for your reply, Fully understanding the operation of the quota and emails deleted (Flag T). I think use the plugin autocreate to create Trash folder to all users and configure webmail to automatically send emails deleted to that folder in any case my advice is that if there a method to delete emails marked with flag T into INBOX? Thanks Jose Luis > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:19:33 -0500 > From: kyle-dove...@memoryhole.net > To: dovecot@dovecot.org > Subject: Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize > > On Thursday, July 2 at 05:28 PM, quoth Jose Luis Marin Perez: > > When calculating the quota through maildirsize did not consider the > > emails with flag T. > > What's the point of having a quota if users can circumvent it by > simply labeling their messages as "deleted"? > > In all truth, if it weren't for the "expunge" command, the \Deleted > label would be no different from any other label. And from that > perspective, what you're asking for is essentially equivalent to a > "\DoesntCount" tag, so that users can circumvent the quota by giving > their messages a tag that prevents them from counting towards their > quota limit. The messages *aren't* deleted; they can still be read, > copied, forwarded. > > What is to prevent a user from storing several gigabytes worth of > "deleted" messages on your server? From that perspective, this is a > security problem: any user can attack your server by creating a > denial-of-service condition. They can simply store a huge number of > "deleted" messages, occupying so much disk space that no other users > can receive mail. Normally, a quota mechanism is supposed to protect > you from this type of attack, but you're explicitly asking for a way > for users to easily avoid the quota restrictions. > > > Dovecot is working perfectly, the problem is that as Courier had this > > feature, > > That's not a feature, that's a security bug. > > > users will not purge mails > > So what's the point of having a quota? > > ~Kyle > -- > Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are > men who want rain without thunder and lightning. > -- Frederick Douglass _ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
On Thursday, July 2 at 05:28 PM, quoth Jose Luis Marin Perez: When calculating the quota through maildirsize did not consider the emails with flag T. What's the point of having a quota if users can circumvent it by simply labeling their messages as "deleted"? In all truth, if it weren't for the "expunge" command, the \Deleted label would be no different from any other label. And from that perspective, what you're asking for is essentially equivalent to a "\DoesntCount" tag, so that users can circumvent the quota by giving their messages a tag that prevents them from counting towards their quota limit. The messages *aren't* deleted; they can still be read, copied, forwarded. What is to prevent a user from storing several gigabytes worth of "deleted" messages on your server? From that perspective, this is a security problem: any user can attack your server by creating a denial-of-service condition. They can simply store a huge number of "deleted" messages, occupying so much disk space that no other users can receive mail. Normally, a quota mechanism is supposed to protect you from this type of attack, but you're explicitly asking for a way for users to easily avoid the quota restrictions. Dovecot is working perfectly, the problem is that as Courier had this feature, That's not a feature, that's a security bug. users will not purge mails So what's the point of having a quota? ~Kyle -- Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning. -- Frederick Douglass pgpfmI4n7SN52.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
On 7/2/2009 6:28 PM, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: > In Courier-Imap via webmail when delete a email, this was in the > INBOX, but it showed as shading and in the server appends the flag T, > but was not automatically moved to the Trash. > > When calculating the quota through maildirsize did not consider the > emails with flag T. > > Dovecot is working perfectly, the problem is that as Courier had this > feature, That is a PROBLEM - or maybe even a BUG - not a feature... > users will not purge mails THERE is your problem... > and when migrating to Dovecot, these emails deleted if considered to > calculate the quota for which there are many accounts after the > migration have reached 100% usage. Let me ask you a question... what good is your quota, if the users can get around it so easily? Its time to teach your users proper email practices. Deleting messages, but leaving them on the filesystem forever (by not expunging them) and expecting them to NOT get calculated in the Quota, only teaches them a way to get around your quota limits. Do the right thing... teach them that they will have to actually expunge deleted messages within a reasonable time frame or they will go over quota. -- Best regards, Charles
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
Dear Timo, Thanks for your reply. In Courier-Imap via webmail when delete a email, this was in the INBOX, but it showed as shading and in the server appends the flag T, but was not automatically moved to the Trash. When calculating the quota through maildirsize did not consider the emails with flag T. Dovecot is working perfectly, the problem is that as Courier had this feature, users will not purge mails and when migrating to Dovecot, these emails deleted if considered to calculate the quota for which there are many accounts after the migration have reached 100% usage. Thanks Jose Luis > CC: dovecot@dovecot.org > From: t...@iki.fi > To: jolumape...@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:44:36 +0200 > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:57 PM, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: > > > I told you that before migrating from Courier to Dovecot deleted > > mails (With flag T and not purged) were considered when calculating > > the quota. > > Or is it that in Courier you had enabled this "move messages marked as > \Deleted to Trash immediately"? I've no plans for implementing that > IMAP protocol breaking feature. > _ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:57 PM, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: I told you that before migrating from Courier to Dovecot deleted mails (With flag T and not purged) were considered when calculating the quota. Or is it that in Courier you had enabled this "move messages marked as \Deleted to Trash immediately"? I've no plans for implementing that IMAP protocol breaking feature.
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
On 7/2/2009 2:57 PM, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: > There is a way that considers Dovecot mails deleted (not purged) to calculate > the quota? I would vote (were it up to a vote) against such behavior... The message is not deleted - and therefore is still taking up physical storage space - until it is DELETED. -- Best regards, Charles Marcus I.T. Director Media Brokers International, Inc. 678.514.6200 x224 678.514.6299 fax
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
Thanks for your answers. I told you that before migrating from Courier to Dovecot deleted mails (With flag T and not purged) were considered when calculating the quota. There is a way that considers Dovecot mails deleted (not purged) to calculate the quota? Thanks Jose Luis > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:11:46 -0300 > From: edua...@kalinowski.com.br > To: dovecot@dovecot.org > Subject: Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize > > On Qui, 02 Jul 2009, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: > > Thanks for your response Eduardo. > > > > Apologies to the list by the rush and lack of information when > > reporting a problem. > > > > One of the webmails is configured so that when delete some > > mail move to Trash directory, I have no problem here because I've > > configured Dovecot to ignore this folder to quota > > > > The other > > two webmails are not configured to use the Trash directory and when you > > delete some mail will be maintained in the INBOX but it shows shading > > and the server adds the flag T: > > > > 1244457746.11461.domain.com, S = 5413:2, ST > > > > So no updates maildirsize and quota does not change, this may > > result in the accounts quickly reach 100% usage. > > The quote does not change because the mail is not deleted. It's only > marked as deleted (T flag). Once the folder is expunged (that's how > IMAP call it; your webmail mail give a different name for this action) > all mails flagged as deleted are actually deleted and space is released. > > The easiest solution would be to use a Trash folder also for this > domain. Or, if you do not want that, you'll have to instruct your > users to expunge their folders when they want to claim space. I > believe there is also a plugin that should do automatic expunging, but > I don't known when it's triggered. > > > -- > Eduardo M KALINOWSKI > edua...@kalinowski.com.br > _ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
You may also consider using an inotify tool like inotifywait to build up a list of maildirs to be expunged, then run an imaptool on the clock every hour, with an extreme nice priority, to do a background expunge. Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: On Qui, 02 Jul 2009, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: Thanks for your response Eduardo. Apologies to the list by the rush and lack of information when reporting a problem. One of the webmails is configured so that when delete some mail move to Trash directory, I have no problem here because I've configured Dovecot to ignore this folder to quota The other two webmails are not configured to use the Trash directory and when you delete some mail will be maintained in the INBOX but it shows shading and the server adds the flag T: 1244457746.11461.domain.com, S = 5413:2, ST So no updates maildirsize and quota does not change, this may result in the accounts quickly reach 100% usage. The quote does not change because the mail is not deleted. It's only marked as deleted (T flag). Once the folder is expunged (that's how IMAP call it; your webmail mail give a different name for this action) all mails flagged as deleted are actually deleted and space is released. The easiest solution would be to use a Trash folder also for this domain. Or, if you do not want that, you'll have to instruct your users to expunge their folders when they want to claim space. I believe there is also a plugin that should do automatic expunging, but I don't known when it's triggered. -- Love feeling your best ever, all day, every day? Click http://RadicalHealth.com/join for the easy way.
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
On Qui, 02 Jul 2009, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: Thanks for your response Eduardo. Apologies to the list by the rush and lack of information when reporting a problem. One of the webmails is configured so that when delete some mail move to Trash directory, I have no problem here because I've configured Dovecot to ignore this folder to quota The other two webmails are not configured to use the Trash directory and when you delete some mail will be maintained in the INBOX but it shows shading and the server adds the flag T: 1244457746.11461.domain.com, S = 5413:2, ST So no updates maildirsize and quota does not change, this may result in the accounts quickly reach 100% usage. The quote does not change because the mail is not deleted. It's only marked as deleted (T flag). Once the folder is expunged (that's how IMAP call it; your webmail mail give a different name for this action) all mails flagged as deleted are actually deleted and space is released. The easiest solution would be to use a Trash folder also for this domain. Or, if you do not want that, you'll have to instruct your users to expunge their folders when they want to claim space. I believe there is also a plugin that should do automatic expunging, but I don't known when it's triggered. -- Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
Thanks for your response Eduardo. Apologies to the list by the rush and lack of information when reporting a problem. I have installed on a server as follows: Qmail Vpopmail Dovecot Horde With three mail domains using three different webmails. One of the webmails is configured so that when delete some mail move to Trash directory, I have no problem here because I've configured Dovecot to ignore this folder to quota The other two webmails are not configured to use the Trash directory and when you delete some mail will be maintained in the INBOX but it shows shading and the server adds the flag T: 1244457746.11461.domain.com, S = 5413:2, ST So no updates maildirsize and quota does not change, this may result in the accounts quickly reach 100% usage. Dovecot configuration # 1.1.16: /usr/local/etc/dovecot.conf # OS: Linux 2.6.9-78.0.22.ELsmp i686 CentOS release 4.7 (Final) log_path: /var/log/dovecot.log protocols: imap listen: *:10143 ssl_disable: yes disable_plaintext_auth: no login_dir: /usr/local/var/run/dovecot/login login_executable: /usr/local/libexec/dovecot/imap-login first_valid_uid: 89 last_valid_uid: 89 first_valid_gid: 89 last_valid_gid: 89 mail_uid: 89 mail_gid: 89 mail_location: maildir:~/Maildir mail_plugins: quota namespace: type: private separator: . prefix: INBOX. inbox: yes list: yes subscriptions: yes auth default: passdb: driver: checkpassword args: /usr/vpopmail/bin/vchkpw /usr/local/bin/vchkpw-wrapper.sh userdb: driver: prefetch args: uid=89 gid=89 home=/usr/vpopmail/domains/%d/%u plugin: quota: maildir quota_rule: ?:storage=0 quota_rule2: Trash:ignore quota_rule3: Papelera:ignore Thanks Jose Luis > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:14:10 -0300 > From: edua...@kalinowski.com.br > To: dovecot@dovecot.org > Subject: Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize > > On Qui, 02 Jul 2009, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: > > Dears Sirs, > > > > I hope they can help me with this problem since it is urgent. > > > > I've completed the migration from Courier to Dovecot that has been > > running correctly, the only problem is that maildirsize file is not > > updated when you delete the emails, resulting in accounts that reach to > > 100% faster, so I have to manually delete this file. > > > > Through Dovecot can be configured to automatically update when > > maildirsize delete emails? > > Posting the same request twice in two hours in not going to get an > answer faster. Especially if you do not add the missing information in > the first post to the second one. > > Please show us your dovecot -n output. > > That will answer the question, but anyway: do you have the quota > plugin configured? > > > -- > Eduardo M KALINOWSKI > edua...@kalinowski.com.br > _ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
Re: [Dovecot] Urgent problem with deleting emails and maildirsize
On Qui, 02 Jul 2009, Jose Luis Marin Perez wrote: Dears Sirs, I hope they can help me with this problem since it is urgent. I've completed the migration from Courier to Dovecot that has been running correctly, the only problem is that maildirsize file is not updated when you delete the emails, resulting in accounts that reach to 100% faster, so I have to manually delete this file. Through Dovecot can be configured to automatically update when maildirsize delete emails? Posting the same request twice in two hours in not going to get an answer faster. Especially if you do not add the missing information in the first post to the second one. Please show us your dovecot -n output. That will answer the question, but anyway: do you have the quota plugin configured? -- Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br
