Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
I enjoyed the conversation about the Collins, Drakes, etc. The cost issues certainly ring true for me. I had just received my General in the Spring of 1965 during my sophomore year of high school. Later that summer I saw a fancy Cadillac being driven in my small Ohio town with ham plates (WB6RER) from California. I asked the woman driving the car if she was a ham and she replied that her husband was the ham. I informed her that our club was meeting that evening and invited him to attend. She said that they would be coming back to the hotel at 6 PM and I could ask him myself. I waited in the parking lot that evening and her husband turned out to be Andy Devine, the western movie character actor. They were in town doing summer stock theater. He had a KWM-2 in the Cadillac! We talked ham radio for almost an hour. It was a great experience, but I concluded that you had to be movie star rich to have a mobile KWM-2. Ed, W9EJB - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: k4...@mindspring.com; drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. Interesting conversation! Well, I have here today the Collins KWM-2 and S3 line, a 'B' line, a 'C' line (Full Sherwood). Hallicrafters SX-117/HT-44, and SX-115/HT-32Balong with my only modern riga TT Orion II. I could not afford any of this in my early days (1964) of hamming. Used Knight Kit/Heathkit very used older stuff (HRO-7 etc) I actually use all of this on a regular basis. Here is my rundown: 1) Collins = nice to operate, very reliable, great for SSB, not for CW, looks cool, easy to maintain. and I like the 6146's 2) Drake = superb in every way, PBT is a real +, needs very little maintenance, very stablehas nearly as good of contest/weak DX performance as TT Orion 3) Halli's...just fun to use and performance is really goos as well...better than most may think/remember 4) TT OII, really a superb TXCVR in all wayssuper easy to use, no multi=level menus, top notch rcvr. no tune, nice big knobs , manual never needed The vintage stuff is just more fun! I like working on the stuff if neededit's the technology I understand and can work on. 73, Lee, KC9CDT -Original Message- From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 9:33 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. Richard Knoppow wrote: ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
Richard Knoppow wrote: - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits... Toward the end of its life, the R-4B + T-4XB was right at $1K. I can't imagine spending that during my teenage years in the mid 1970s. To me, it was like a car purchase. By 1975, what was the street price of the S-Line combo? I imagine Collins offered little in the way of discounts. I make this assumption based on the back pages of QSTs I've been reading from the late '50s. For example, every single dealer who supplied the KWM-1 advertised it for exactly $820 in 1958. It sure seems like Collins had strict terms and conditions on just how much a dealer could discount, if any at all -- much the same way other high-end products are sold today in order to retain an elite branding image. I imagine this was less of an issue with Drake. Paul, W9AC Its hard to know what actual discounts might have been offered. At the time strict fair trade price control by manufacturers was still legal, dealers had to abide by their agreements, at leas for advertised prices. What is not clear is how much effective discounting went on in the form of trade-ins or extras supplied free when equipment was bought. I suspect a lot of price competition went on under the table. OTOH, I don't know how much mark up there was on ham gear, maybe not a lot. Most commercial electronics had enough so that a 40% discount over list price could be offered. There may have been more on consumer gear. Ham gear may not have had enough volume to allow this. Richard - I worked part time for a Ham distributor in the 60s. At that time, the distributor paid 75% of list price. Several of the manufacturers had a program where a salesperson could purchase ONE of any or all items at 50%, for their own use. This is how I got my first 4-Line. There was little discounting over 10%, usually in the form of 'increased' trade-in value. Most Collins gear that I sold was at list price, I suppose those who could afford it didn't care what it cost! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
Interesting conversation! Well, I have here today the Collins KWM-2 and S3 line, a 'B' line, a 'C' line (Full Sherwood). Hallicrafters SX-117/HT-44, and SX-115/HT-32Balong with my only modern riga TT Orion II. I could not afford any of this in my early days (1964) of hamming. Used Knight Kit/Heathkit very used older stuff (HRO-7 etc) I actually use all of this on a regular basis. Here is my rundown: 1) Collins = nice to operate, very reliable, great for SSB, not for CW, looks cool, easy to maintain. and I like the 6146's 2) Drake = superb in every way, PBT is a real +, needs very little maintenance, very stablehas nearly as good of contest/weak DX performance as TT Orion 3) Halli's...just fun to use and performance is really goos as well...better than most may think/remember 4) TT OII, really a superb TXCVR in all wayssuper easy to use, no multi=level menus, top notch rcvr. no tune, nice big knobs , manual never needed The vintage stuff is just more fun! I like working on the stuff if neededit's the technology I understand and can work on. 73, Lee, KC9CDT -Original Message- From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 9:33 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. Richard Knoppow wrote: - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits... Toward the end of its life, the R-4B + T-4XB was right at $1K. I can't imagine spending that during my teenage years in the mid 1970s. To me, it was like a car purchase. By 1975, what was the street price of the S-Line combo? I imagine Collins offered little in the way of discounts. I make this assumption based on the back pages of QSTs I've been reading from the late '50s. For example, every single dealer who supplied the KWM-1 advertised it for exactly $820 in 1958. It sure seems like Collins had strict terms and conditions on just how much a dealer could discount, if any at all -- much the same way other high-end products are sold today in order to retain an elite branding image. I imagine this was less of an issue with Drake. Paul, W9AC Its hard to know what actual discounts might have been offered. At the time strict fair trade price control by manufacturers was still legal, dealers had to abide by their agreements, at leas for advertised prices. What is not clear is how much effective discounting went on in the form of trade-ins or extras supplied free when equipment was bought. I suspect a lot of price competition went on under the table. OTOH, I don't know how much mark up there was on ham gear, maybe not a lot. Most commercial electronics had enough so that a 40% discount over list price could be offered. There may have been more on consumer gear. Ham gear may not have had enough volume to allow this. Richard - I worked part time for a Ham distributor in the 60s. At that time, the distributor paid 75% of list price. Several of the manufacturers had a program where a salesperson could purchase ONE of any or all items at 50%, for their own use. This is how I got my first 4-Line. There was little discounting over 10%, usually in the form of 'increased' trade-in value. Most Collins gear that I sold was at list price, I suppose those who could afford it didn't care what it cost! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
My first receiver was a used Hallicrafters SX-140. I did not have a manual with it, and it was many, many years after I sold it that I realized it had a regenerative detector. My recollections of it were of very poor selectivity. Perhaps this is just due to my not knowing how to adjust the regenerative knob properly. It was labeled Selectivity/BFO so I always figured straight up for CW, a bit left for LSB and a bit to the right for USB. Funny thinking about it know, but I was 15 years old and studying for my licence at the time. Once I got my licence I upgraded to an Heathkit SB-101. A couple of times now I have almost bought another SX-140 just to try it out with the proper use of that selectivity/BFO control and see if it really was as bad as I remember or if it was just me. 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO On 06/17/11 07:33, kc9...@aol.com wrote: Interesting conversation! 3) Halli's...just fun to use and performance is really goos as well...better than most may think/remember 73, Lee, KC9CDT ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
Well, I first saw the S/Line in the early 60s when W2KOY (SK), the local MD, had the full setup and I was a drooling kid whose OM was a dedicated homebrewer. Unrequited technolust. Went off to college a few years later and talked the Student Government into buying an S/Line for the startup Ham Radio Club. TH-7 on rooftop tower on top floor of dorm. Loved the gear but it wasn't much better on CW than my OM's homebrew rig. About 6 years later and 1500 miles further west I was introduced to Drake gear (full 4B-line) at W0LJF (SK) and ran contests most successfully from his station, especially SS. My own rig at that time was a TA-33jr and an HW-101. Subsequently bought a 2B+2BQ to enhance CW operations at my home QTH. So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits, surplus and used older gear. Peter Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits... Toward the end of its life, the R-4B + T-4XB was right at $1K. I can't imagine spending that during my teenage years in the mid 1970s. To me, it was like a car purchase. By 1975, what was the street price of the S-Line combo? I imagine Collins offered little in the way of discounts. I make this assumption based on the back pages of QSTs I've been reading from the late '50s. For example, every single dealer who supplied the KWM-1 advertised it for exactly $820 in 1958. It sure seems like Collins had strict terms and conditions on just how much a dealer could discount, if any at all -- much the same way other high-end products are sold today in order to retain an elite branding image. I imagine this was less of an issue with Drake. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
Paul Christensen wrote: So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits... Toward the end of its life, the R-4B + T-4XB was right at $1K. I can't imagine spending that during my teenage years in the mid 1970s. To me, it was like a car purchase. By 1975, what was the street price of the S-Line combo? I imagine Collins offered little in the way of discounts. I make this assumption based on the back pages of QSTs I've been reading from the late '50s. For example, every single dealer who supplied the KWM-1 advertised it for exactly $820 in 1958. It sure seems like Collins had strict terms and conditions on just how much a dealer could discount, if any at all -- much the same way other high-end products are sold today in order to retain an elite branding image. I imagine this was less of an issue with Drake. Paul, W9AC Paul - In 1971, the S-Line prices were as follows KWM-2 - $1150.00 516F-2 - $ 153.00 75S-3B - $795.00 + $250.00 for three mechanical filters 75S-3C - $850.00 (includes accy xtal deck) + $250.00 for three mechanical filters 32S-3 - $865.00 32S-3A - $1065.00 (includes accy xtal deck) 516F-2 - $ 153.00 So $2775.00 for the basic rx/tx pair plus power supply IF you wanted the extra crystal deck(s) for expanded coverage plus speaker, add another $290.00 By 1977, the prices had increased considerably, as Collins became Rockwell Collins and much less concerned about the Ham market. KWM-2A - $3533.00 75S-3C - $2504.00 32S-3A - $2957.00 516F-2 - $ 440.00 312B-3 - $ 80.00 (speaker) Now only $11,375.00 !! By comparison, the C-Line was R-4C - $599.00 + $200 for 4 filters T-4XC - $599.00 AC-4 - $120.00 MS-4 - $ 25.00 Total of $1543.00 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
- Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits... Toward the end of its life, the R-4B + T-4XB was right at $1K. I can't imagine spending that during my teenage years in the mid 1970s. To me, it was like a car purchase. By 1975, what was the street price of the S-Line combo? I imagine Collins offered little in the way of discounts. I make this assumption based on the back pages of QSTs I've been reading from the late '50s. For example, every single dealer who supplied the KWM-1 advertised it for exactly $820 in 1958. It sure seems like Collins had strict terms and conditions on just how much a dealer could discount, if any at all -- much the same way other high-end products are sold today in order to retain an elite branding image. I imagine this was less of an issue with Drake. Paul, W9AC Its hard to know what actual discounts might have been offered. At the time strict fair trade price control by manufacturers was still legal, dealers had to abide by their agreements, at leas for advertised prices. What is not clear is how much effective discounting went on in the form of trade-ins or extras supplied free when equipment was bought. I suspect a lot of price competition went on under the table. OTOH, I don't know how much mark up there was on ham gear, maybe not a lot. Most commercial electronics had enough so that a 40% discount over list price could be offered. There may have been more on consumer gear. Ham gear may not have had enough volume to allow this. Speaking of old ham magazines, I was just looking at the December 1946 edition of QST. This one has the announcement for the Hallicrafters SX-42 in it. Eight full pages of advertising from Hallicrafters (four double trucks in a row) plus about eighty ads by individual dealers featuring the SX-42, probably co-operative with Hallicrafters, having exactly the same cut of the receiver and the same price. Some other dealers also advertised the receiver but did not feature it exclusively. This was a very heavy weight campaign. I think the SX-42 was Hallicrafters first really new receiver after the war and was obviously a prestige item for them. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickb...@ix.netcom.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
