Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-25 Thread Henry Vredegoor

Hi All,

Is it just me, or is this link not working anymore / has the Ham Radio 
Magazine archive been removed from the site?


73's,
Henry - PA0HJA


On 12/21/2011 3:16 PM, Robert Fish wrote:

Hi Guys,

I am not sure how good the print quality is, but the entire collection 
of HR magazine (or most of) has recently been made available for 
download in PDF or just about any format you chose here:


http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Aham-radio-magazinesort=-publicdate 



By the way, 73 magazine archives are also available here:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3A73-magazinesort=-publicdate 



I have already spent a bunch of time searching around through this 
stuff. Lotsa fun.


73,

Bob  K6GGO



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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-25 Thread Ron
Henry,
It is not working here, but I personally never tried it prior to this either.  
So I do not have a reference to know if it ever worked for me.

73,
Ron WD8SBB

--- On Sun, 12/25/11, Henry Vredegoor henry.vredeg...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Henry Vredegoor henry.vredeg...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C  160 Mod ?
 To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
 Date: Sunday, December 25, 2011, 6:44 AM
 Hi All,
 
 Is it just me, or is this link not working anymore / has
 the Ham Radio Magazine archive been removed from the site?
 
 73's,
 Henry - PA0HJA
 
 
 On 12/21/2011 3:16 PM, Robert Fish wrote:
  Hi Guys,
  
  I am not sure how good the print quality is, but the
 entire collection of HR magazine (or most of) has recently
 been made available for download in PDF or just about any
 format you chose here:
  
  http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Aham-radio-magazinesort=-publicdate
 
  
  By the way, 73 magazine archives are also available
 here:
  
  http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3A73-magazinesort=-publicdate
 
  
  I have already spent a bunch of time searching around
 through this stuff. Lotsa fun.
  
  73,
  
  Bob  K6GGO
 
 
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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-22 Thread Ron
I've also had some questions about the FS4 project of this page.  I actually 
had good fortune to find and e-mail Mr Robert Stein.  Although I cannot locate 
the e-mails, I recall mentioning two issues with the project.  First issue is 
critical parts no longer available and no good subs.  Second and much more 
important is that the synthisizer had some bad spurs.  Not usable for TX and 
annoying on RX.

73,
Ron WD8SBB

--- On Thu, 12/22/11, Ron wd8...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Ron wd8...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C  160 Mod ?
To: Robert Fish rwf...@comcast.net, Kihwal Lee kih...@yahoo.com
Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net drakelist@zerobeat.net
Date: Thursday, December 22, 2011, 5:31 PM

anyone wanting a PDF of that page from HR with the image, let me know directly.

73,
Ron WD8SBB

--- On Thu, 12/22/11, Kihwal Lee kih...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Kihwal Lee kih...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C  160 Mod ?
To: Robert Fish rwf...@comcast.net
Cc: Ron wd8...@yahoo.com, drakelist@zerobeat.net drakelist@zerobeat.net
Date: Thursday, December 22, 2011, 11:46 AM

I captured, inverted and printed the image from HRM. It's not ideal but will do 
until someone produces and sells better one. Thanks for the info!
Here is a picture of my R-4A:http://tinyurl.com/79yhu62
Kihwal, K9SUL
On Dec 21, 2011, at 8:16 AM, Robert Fish rwf...@comcast.net wrote:

Hi Guys,

I am not sure how good the print quality is, but the entire collection of HR 
magazine (or most of) has recently been made available for download in PDF or 
just about any format you chose here:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Aham-radio-magazinesort=-publicdate

By the way, 73 magazine archives are also available here:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3A73-magazinesort=-publicdate

I have already spent a bunch of time searching around through this stuff. Lotsa 
fun.

73,

Bob  K6GGO

I think the discussion is now about the expanded preselector dial that came 
with the FS4.  HR magazine had home brew FS4 in Aug 1972 issue.  That article
  had a copy of the dial in print.  That might be where you can pick off a high 
resolution image if you have an origial.

I sold my incomplete set of HR mags when I purchased the entire PDF collection. 
 The PDF of the page that the dial is on is not that great.  OTOH you might be 
able to use it for a starting point to do image restoration and enhancement.

Aug 1972 - Ham Radio (Pg. 6)
Frequency Synthesizer for the Drake R-4 Receiver
Author: Stein, Robert S., W6NBI

Sorry if I misunderstood the
 thread.

73,
Ron WD8SBB

--- On Tue, 12/20/11, Jim Shorneyjshor...@inebraska.com  wrote:




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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-21 Thread geoffrey mendelson


On Dec 21, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Ron wrote:


I sold my incomplete set of HR mags when I purchased the entire PDF  
collection.  The PDF of the page that the dial is on is not that  
great.  OTOH you might be able to use it for a starting point to do  
image restoration and enhancement.



Which set do you have?

There are two out there. The first set was produced by a ham on his  
own. It was sold as a set of two DVD-ROMs.


I don't know his motivation, but based upon the price he charged I  
think he was trying to preserve a dying art. I don't think he  
understood that HR magazine did not simply cease to exist, they  
stopped publishing magazines and sold the rights to what they had  
published.


Later the holder of the copyrights, CQ magazine, produced an official  
set on CD. The quality of the images from the other set was much better.


Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(














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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-21 Thread Robert Fish

Hi Guys,

I am not sure how good the print quality is, but the entire collection 
of HR magazine (or most of) has recently been made available for 
download in PDF or just about any format you chose here:


http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Aham-radio-magazinesort=-publicdate

By the way, 73 magazine archives are also available here:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3A73-magazinesort=-publicdate

I have already spent a bunch of time searching around through this 
stuff. Lotsa fun.


73,

Bob  K6GGO


I think the discussion is now about the expanded preselector dial that came 
with the FS4.  HR magazine had home brew FS4 in Aug 1972 issue.  That article  had a copy 
of the dial in print.  That might be where you can pick off a high resolution image if 
you have an origial.

I sold my incomplete set of HR mags when I purchased the entire PDF collection. 
 The PDF of the page that the dial is on is not that great.  OTOH you might be 
able to use it for a starting point to do image restoration and enhancement.

Aug 1972 - Ham Radio (Pg. 6)
Frequency Synthesizer for the Drake R-4 Receiver
Author: Stein, Robert S., W6NBI

Sorry if I misunderstood the thread.

73,
Ron WD8SBB

--- On Tue, 12/20/11, Jim Shorneyjshor...@inebraska.com  wrote:





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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-21 Thread Ron
Geoff,
I have the legit version from the ARRL.  I forgot that I converted all their 
image files (1 for each page, with a clunky program to view them) into PDF file 
per issue.  The resolution is fine for average usage, but it is *not* high res 
by any stretch of your imagination.

73,
Ron WD8SBB

--- On Wed, 12/21/11, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C  160 Mod ?
 To: drakelist@zerobeat.net List drakelist@zerobeat.net
 Date: Wednesday, December 21, 2011, 6:07 AM
 
 On Dec 21, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Ron wrote:
  
  I sold my incomplete set of HR mags when I purchased
 the entire PDF collection.  The PDF of the page that
 the dial is on is not that great.  OTOH you might be
 able to use it for a starting point to do image restoration
 and enhancement.
 
 
 Which set do you have?
 
 There are two out there. The first set was produced by a
 ham on his own. It was sold as a set of two DVD-ROMs.
 
 I don't know his motivation, but based upon the price he
 charged I think he was trying to preserve a dying art. I
 don't think he understood that HR magazine did not simply
 cease to exist, they stopped publishing magazines and sold
 the rights to what they had published.
 
 Later the holder of the copyrights, CQ magazine, produced
 an official set on CD. The quality of the images from the
 other set was much better.
 
 Geoff.
 
 --Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM
 My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian
 count. :-(
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread Kris Merschrod
Does anyone have the scoop on this 160 mod on eBay?  Yes, inside there are 4 
crystals in the sockets and the decale on the front looks like a nice addition, 
but what could be the mod ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220914022496viewitem=sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202

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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread Garey Barrell

Kris -

The 160M 'Mod' consists of a couple of extra capacitors to stretch the 160M band down to 1800 kHz 
rather than the stock 1840 kHz.


The 'factory applied decal' is an accessory supplied with the FS-4 'Crystal Eliminator' to show the 
General Coverage bands and is stuck on by the owner!


The 160 Mod is on your CD for the T-4X/B/C.

--
73, Garey - K4OAH
St Charles, IL

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
www.k4oah.com


Kris Merschrod wrote:
Does anyone have the scoop on this 160 mod on eBay?  Yes, inside there are 4 crystals in the 
sockets and the decale on the front looks like a nice addition, but what could be the mod ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220914022496viewitem=sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220914022496viewitem=sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202

Kris KM2KM


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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread Kris Merschrod

Thank you Garey,

I have not looked for that Mod on the CDs, but will study up.

One thing that I have never understood,  if the R-4any is the VFO in use 
with the TX-4, and the R-4 has the crystals - say for 160, then is a crystal 
needed for the TX-4?  It does not seem logical because how would the TX-4 it 
tune?


Many thanks,

Kris KM2KM


- Original Message - 
From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com

To: Kris Merschrod k...@merschrod.net
Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?



Kris -

The 160M 'Mod' consists of a couple of extra capacitors to stretch the 
160M band down to 1800 kHz rather than the stock 1840 kHz.


The 'factory applied decal' is an accessory supplied with the FS-4 
'Crystal Eliminator' to show the General Coverage bands and is stuck on by 
the owner!


The 160 Mod is on your CD for the T-4X/B/C.

--
73, Garey - K4OAH
St Charles, IL

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
www.k4oah.com


Kris Merschrod wrote:
Does anyone have the scoop on this 160 mod on eBay?  Yes, inside there 
are 4 crystals in the sockets and the decale on the front looks like a 
nice addition, but what could be the mod ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220914022496viewitem=sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220914022496viewitem=sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202
Kris KM2KM 



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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread Donley

Kris, Garey and Group,

Does anyone have a good, sharp and clear pdf file of the RF Tune sticker 
furnished with the FS-4? Is there a source for purchase of after-market 
stickers?


73
Richard
kc9ub



- Original Message - 
From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com

To: Kris Merschrod k...@merschrod.net
Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?



Kris -

The 160M 'Mod' consists of a couple of extra capacitors to stretch the 
160M band down to 1800 kHz rather than the stock 1840 kHz.


The 'factory applied decal' is an accessory supplied with the FS-4 
'Crystal Eliminator' to show the General Coverage bands and is stuck on by 
the owner!


The 160 Mod is on your CD for the T-4X/B/C.

--
73, Garey - K4OAH
St Charles, IL

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
www.k4oah.com


Kris Merschrod wrote:
Does anyone have the scoop on this 160 mod on eBay?  Yes, inside there 
are 4 crystals in the sockets and the decale on the front looks like a 
nice addition, but what could be the mod ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220914022496viewitem=sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220914022496viewitem=sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202

Kris KM2KM


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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread Jim Shorney
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:45:23 -0500, Donley wrote:


Does anyone have a good, sharp and clear pdf file of the RF Tune sticker 
furnished with the FS-4? Is there a source for purchase of after-market 
stickers?


I've got a photo, but it's not hi-res. I asked someone who was selling an FS-4
with unused stickers for a scan once years ago, but got no response. If we
could get a hi-res image, I know a guy that could possible make some decent
repros. 

73

-Jim


--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread kc9cdt
While were at it we need to have new dials available for the R-4B, 
T-4XB (same on the earlyer 4's ...I think)

Does not look all that hard to do...
If we all pitch in to do the master??
Put me down for 4.
73,
Lee



-Original Message-
From: Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com
To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?


On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:45:23 -0500, Donley wrote:



Does anyone have a good, sharp and clear pdf file of the RF Tune 

sticker
furnished with the FS-4? Is there a source for purchase of 

after-market

stickers?



I've got a photo, but it's not hi-res. I asked someone who was selling 
an FS-4
with unused stickers for a scan once years ago, but got no response. If 
we
could get a hi-res image, I know a guy that could possible make some 
decent

repros.

73

-Jim


--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, 
GT550A/RV550A,

HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, 
and he

will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread Jim Shorney

I can ask my guy if he can screen on Lexan disks. He can do amazing vector
recreations from low-res images, I've sent him my preselector sticker photos to
see what he can do.

73

-Jim


On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:54:08 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote:

While were at it we need to have new dials available for the R-4B, 
T-4XB (same on the earlyer 4's ...I think)
Does not look all that hard to do...
If we all pitch in to do the master??
Put me down for 4.
73,
Lee



-Original Message-
From: Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com
To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?


On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:45:23 -0500, Donley wrote:


Does anyone have a good, sharp and clear pdf file of the RF Tune 
sticker
furnished with the FS-4? Is there a source for purchase of 
after-market
stickers?


I've got a photo, but it's not hi-res. I asked someone who was selling 
an FS-4
with unused stickers for a scan once years ago, but got no response. If 
we
could get a hi-res image, I know a guy that could possible make some 
decent
repros.

73

-Jim


--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, 
GT550A/RV550A,
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, 
and he
will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread George
How about the cord marker stickers i have an original one i can scan

George


On Dec 20, 2011, at 10:54 PM, Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com wrote:

 
 I can ask my guy if he can screen on Lexan disks. He can do amazing vector
 recreations from low-res images, I've sent him my preselector sticker photos 
 to
 see what he can do.
 
 73
 
 -Jim
 
 
 On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:54:08 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote:
 
 While were at it we need to have new dials available for the R-4B, 
 T-4XB (same on the earlyer 4's ...I think)
 Does not look all that hard to do...
 If we all pitch in to do the master??
 Put me down for 4.
 73,
 Lee
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com
 To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
 Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:42 pm
 Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?
 
 
 On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:45:23 -0500, Donley wrote:
 
 
 Does anyone have a good, sharp and clear pdf file of the RF Tune 
 sticker
 furnished with the FS-4? Is there a source for purchase of 
 after-market
 stickers?
 
 
 I've got a photo, but it's not hi-res. I asked someone who was selling 
 an FS-4
 with unused stickers for a scan once years ago, but got no response. If 
 we
 could get a hi-res image, I know a guy that could possible make some 
 decent
 repros.
 
 73
 
 -Jim
 
 
 --
 Ham Radio NU0C
 Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
 TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, 
 GT550A/RV550A,
 HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!
 
 Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, 
 and he
 will learn for a lifetime.
 
 HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
 http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
 http://www.nebraskaghosts.org
 
 
 
 ___
 Drakelist mailing list
 Drakelist@zerobeat.net
 http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
 
 
 
 --
 Ham Radio NU0C
 Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
 TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
 HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!
 
 Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
 will learn for a lifetime.
 
 HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
 http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
 http://www.nebraskaghosts.org
 
 
 
 ___
 Drakelist mailing list
 Drakelist@zerobeat.net
 http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist

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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread Jim Shorney
Cord marker, as on the interconnect cables for the twins? I don't know if he
can do anything that small. His company started out doing traffic signs and
stuff.

73

-Jim


On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 23:51:04 -0500, George wrote:

How about the cord marker stickers i have an original one i can scan

George


On Dec 20, 2011, at 10:54 PM, Jim Shorney jshor...@inebraska.com wrote:

 
 I can ask my guy if he can screen on Lexan disks. He can do amazing vector
 recreations from low-res images, I've sent him my preselector sticker photos 
 to
 see what he can do.


--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

2011-12-20 Thread geoffrey mendelson


On Dec 21, 2011, at 8:15 AM, Jim Shorney wrote:

Cord marker, as on the interconnect cables for the twins? I don't  
know if he
can do anything that small. His company started out doing traffic  
signs and

stuff.



I have a Brother P-Touch label maker. This is a small handheld device  
that prints stick on labels on 1/2 inch wide tape. The labels come in  
various colors and backgrounds. Brother also sells a USB printer that  
takes the same tape, anyone have one? I wonder if you can use it to  
print graphics instead of text. Then you could print scanned images of  
small tags, etc.


Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(














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