[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-29 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8250  
 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 AssignedTo|dri-|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |
 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-29 10:24 ---
Hmm ok so it looks like there is something wrong with emitting the upper 3
instructions of the 67 instruction length vertex program (those that do not fit
into the first 64 instruction memory area). The driver seems to cycle between
emitting different values of garbage, and all zeros for these...
Should be a fairly obvious bug to find, though I failed so far :-(  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-25 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-25 16:23 ---
(In reply to comment #30)
  it certainly should look the same regardless of tcl mode.
 
 I am running with tcl_mode = 1.
FWIW, this is fixed (see #9062). Unlikely to be related, however.

 Naturally, if you don't have a Warcraft account ;-). However, the current
 problems are visible at the login screen and so no account would be needed. 
 All
 you would need would be the trial client.
I've finally downloaded WoW (and warcraft 3), will try later with new distro
(couldn't get newer wine versions to run at all with old distro, segfaulted even
before reaching gdb...)  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-18 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-18 04:55 ---
(In reply to comment #29)
 Well, I've got some trouble sometimes with xscreensaver not getting direct
 rendering (where all other apps work). However, I can reproduce it with direct
 rendering, if I set tcl_mode to 0 or 1. So there definitely is a problem here,
 it certainly should look the same regardless of tcl mode.

I am running with tcl_mode = 1.

 It could be related to warcraft problems, though that's difficult to say.

Naturally, if you don't have a Warcraft account ;-). However, the current
problems are visible at the login screen and so no account would be needed. All
you would need would be the trial client.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-17 04:20 ---
(In reply to comment #28)
 (In reply to comment #27)
  Are you sure direct rendering worked for xscreensaver? I get exactly the 
  same
  problem, but only with indirect rendering. In any case, I doubt it's 
  related.
 
 Well, I can't think why xscreensaver wouldn't be using direct rendering. But 
 if
 you think it's a separate issue then fair enough.
Well, I've got some trouble sometimes with xscreensaver not getting direct
rendering (where all other apps work). However, I can reproduce it with direct
rendering, if I set tcl_mode to 0 or 1. So there definitely is a problem here,
it certainly should look the same regardless of tcl mode. It could be related to
warcraft problems, though that's difficult to say.
  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-16 03:14 ---
(In reply to comment #26)
 Created an attachment (id=7677)
 -- (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=7677action=view) [edit]
 xscreensaver 4.24, hypertorus -solid -transp
 
 I'm not sure if this is related to the vertex program problem, but I'm sure
 that those triangular artifacts shouldn't be there.
Are you sure direct rendering worked for xscreensaver? I get exactly the same
problem, but only with indirect rendering. In any case, I doubt it's related.   
   
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-16 13:38 ---
(In reply to comment #27)
 Are you sure direct rendering worked for xscreensaver? I get exactly the same
 problem, but only with indirect rendering. In any case, I doubt it's related.

Well, I can't think why xscreensaver wouldn't be using direct rendering. But if
you think it's a separate issue then fair enough.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-06 10:54 ---
Created an attachment (id=7676)
 -- (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=7676action=view)
Screenshot of WoW with new R200 vertex programs.

At least the lock-up is fixed ;-). Celestia works fine now, too.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-06 11:01 ---
Created an attachment (id=7677)
 -- (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=7677action=view)
xscreensaver 4.24, hypertorus -solid -transp

I'm not sure if this is related to the vertex program problem, but I'm sure
that those triangular artifacts shouldn't be there.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-05 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-05 07:39 ---
(In reply to comment #20)
 Are you still using the old cvs drm?

Yes, but with an integer overflow patch against radeon_state.c which I need,
but that 2.6.18.x does not have. (I'm hoping that 2.6.19 will, though.) I'll try
applying my patch to 2.6.18 and rebuilding the kernel module.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-05 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-05 12:44 ---
(In reply to comment #20)
 Are you still using the old cvs drm? I think I was wrong in
 telling it should work, it lacks the lockup fix when enabling/disabling vertex
 programs.

Do you mean r200_vap_state_flush.diff? It turns out that I have applied this
fix already.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-05 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-05 15:15 ---
(In reply to comment #22)
 Do you mean r200_vap_state_flush.diff? It turns out that I have applied this
 fix already.
Yes. Turns out though this wasn't (at least not the only) issue, I could
reproduce the lockups. I didn't see them before due to experimental changes in
my local tree for optimizing color input 0 away in fixed function mode (which
wasn't really a performance gain btw).
Should be fixed now, though I won't be able to look into any further issues for
a week.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-05 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-05 17:48 ---
(In reply to comment #23)
 Yes. Turns out though this wasn't (at least not the only) issue, I could
 reproduce the lockups. I didn't see them before due to experimental changes in
 my local tree for optimizing color input 0 away in fixed function mode (which
 wasn't really a performance gain btw).

OK, I'll test this tomorrow. I think the existing code does show a minor
increase in FPS. Which is to say that a location where it normally drops to 8-10
FPS stayed at around 14 this time. And the colour palette was a lot richer this
time.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-04 04:43 ---
(In reply to comment #11)
 (In reply to comment #10)
  You don't need a newer drm kernel module (in fact 2.6.18 should be just as
  recent as the one from the old cvs repo), however you may need a new libdrm 
  to
  get it to compile.
 
 It compiled just fine using libdrm-2.2.0, but refused to run because of a
 missing drmCloseOnce() symbol. Something somewhere must be out of sync.
Actually I was hit by that too. Didn't realize it then, but it should work if
you use a new libGL.so (i.e. the one which is built as the same time as the 
driver).  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-04 04:53 ---
I did try running it, but I was stuck at 800x600 resolution and it locked up
when I tried switching to a virtual console. (My DFL monitor's refresh frequency
was reported as some ridiculous negative number in the screen resolution
preferences, as well.) Do I need to recompile anything else against the new 
libGL?

For reference, I installed the libdrm-2.2.0 package, and did a make install in
the Mesa/ directory, so should have been using the new libGL:

# Installation directories (for make install)
INSTALL_DIR = /usr
DRI_DRIVER_INSTALL_DIR = /usr/lib/dri  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-04 07:53 ---
BTW, here I am seeing no difference with War3 and latest CVS. So I'll be
interested what Roland's latest patch does for you, because I believe he removed
some of the fallbacks?  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-04 09:02 ---
(In reply to comment #14)
 BTW, here I am seeing no difference with War3 and latest CVS. So I'll be
 interested what Roland's latest patch does for you, because I believe he 
 removed
 some of the fallbacks?
Considering War3 was designed to run well on TNT's and similar old cards, I
doubt it uses vertex programs. Since only some fallbacks for vertex programs
were removed, you obviously won't see a difference.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-04 09:43 ---
(In reply to comment #16)
 That's strange. Are you sure it really picked up the right libraries? For
 testing, you could always just set LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH to the path where the
 *_dri.so driver is (this won't work for libgl though, you could try
 LD_LIBRARY_PATH for that). I can't see any reason why it would make a
 difference wrt resoluton selection or something similar.

I know I was using the new r200_dri.so module because of the drmCloseOnce symbol
issue. And I must have been using libdrm-2.2.0 because I created an RPM for it
and upgraded from the existing libdrm-2.0.2 package.

I suppose I could try uninstalling all my original Mesa RPMs before installing
CVS over the top. Failing that, can you think of anything other than Mesa that
links against libdrm?  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-04 15:11 ---
(In reply to comment #17)
 I know I was using the new r200_dri.so module because of the drmCloseOnce 
 symbol
 issue. And I must have been using libdrm-2.2.0 because I created an RPM for it
 and upgraded from the existing libdrm-2.0.2 package.
 
 I suppose I could try uninstalling all my original Mesa RPMs before installing
 CVS over the top. Failing that, can you think of anything other than Mesa that
 links against libdrm?
not sure, but I think only the dri drivers use it. Not sure where you're
problems are coming from.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8250  
 




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-04 17:08 ---
I installed by hand this time, and my resolution problem has gone away. Here
is my new glxinfo:

name of display: :0.0
libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating,
GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method,
GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_hyperpipe,
GLX_SGIX_swap_barrier, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer
client glx vendor string: SGI
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory,
GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_OML_sync_control,
GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_SGI_video_sync,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer,
GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
GLX version: 1.2
GLX extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory,
GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_SGI_make_current_read,
GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig
OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R200 20060602 AGP 8x x86/MMX/SSE2 TCL
OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 6.5.2
OpenGL extensions:
GL_ARB_imaging, GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ARB_multitexture,
GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp,
GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map,
GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine,
GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3,
GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle,
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object,
GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_window_pos, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra,
GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate,
GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract,
GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_convolution,
GL_EXT_copy_texture, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_fog_coord,
GL_EXT_histogram, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_point_parameters,
GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_EXT_secondary_color,
GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_subtexture,
GL_EXT_texture, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc,
GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_env_add,
GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3,
GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias,
GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_object,
GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_APPLE_packed_pixels,
GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate, GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3,
GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once, GL_ATI_fragment_shader, GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip,
GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_INGR_blend_func_separate,
GL_MESA_pack_invert, GL_MESA_ycbcr_texture, GL_MESA_window_pos,
GL_NV_blend_square, GL_NV_light_max_exponent, GL_NV_texture_rectangle,
GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_OES_read_format, GL_SGI_color_matrix,
GL_SGI_color_table, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp,
GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, GL_SGIS_texture_lod, GL_S3_s3tc
OpenGL limits:
GL_MAX_ATTRIB_STACK_DEPTH = 16
GL_MAX_CLIENT_ATTRIB_STACK_DEPTH = 16
GL_MAX_CLIP_PLANES = 6
GL_MAX_COLOR_MATRIX_STACK_DEPTH = 4
GL_MAX_ELEMENTS_VERTICES = 3000
GL_MAX_ELEMENTS_INDICES = 3000
GL_MAX_EVAL_ORDER = 30
GL_MAX_LIGHTS = 8
GL_MAX_LIST_NESTING = 64
GL_MAX_MODELVIEW_STACK_DEPTH = 32
GL_MAX_NAME_STACK_DEPTH = 64
GL_MAX_PIXEL_MAP_TABLE = 256
GL_MAX_PROJECTION_STACK_DEPTH = 32
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_STACK_DEPTH = 10
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE = 2048
GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE = 128
GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS = 4096, 4096
GL_ALIASED_LINE_WIDTH_RANGE = 1, 10
GL_SMOOTH_LINE_WIDTH_RANGE = 1, 10
GL_ALIASED_POINT_SIZE_RANGE = 1, 2047
GL_SMOOTH_POINT_SIZE_RANGE = 1, 1
GL_MAX_CUBE_MAP_TEXTURE_SIZE_ARB = 1024
GL_NUM_COMPRESSED_TEXTURE_FORMATS_ARB = 7
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS_ARB = 6
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_LOD_BIAS_EXT = 11
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_MAX_ANISOTROPY_EXT = 16
GL_MAX_CONVOLUTION_WIDTH/HEIGHT = 9, 9
GL_VERTEX_PROGRAM_ARB:

[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8250  
 




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-03 05:47 ---
FWIW, the r200 driver now should support generic vertex attribs. You may want to
try that out, though no guarantees it won't lockup or crash :-). The driver now
should support everything related to vertex programs in hw with the only
fallbacks left either because a limit is violated (too many temps (could need
optimizer there), attribs, instructions) or writes to back facing colors (looks
like r200 can't handle that in vp mode).  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8250  
 




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-03 05:56 ---
(In reply to comment #8)
 FWIW, the r200 driver now should support generic vertex attribs.

Ooo, my hero ;-)! I assume we're talking CVS Mesa here, though. What else will I
need to update to use that, given that I am running the 2.6.18.1 kernel and the
DRM module out of the old CVS repository (+ patch for an integer overflow bug in
the radeon code)?

BTW, I am also running the Xorg packages from FC6, albeit recompiled for FC5.   
   
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8250  
 




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-03 06:11 ---
(In reply to comment #9)
 Ooo, my hero ;-)! I assume we're talking CVS Mesa here, though. What else 
 will I
 need to update to use that, given that I am running the 2.6.18.1 kernel and 
 the
 DRM module out of the old CVS repository (+ patch for an integer overflow bug 
 in
 the radeon code)?
You don't need a newer drm kernel module (in fact 2.6.18 should be just as
recent as the one from the old cvs repo), however you may need a new libdrm to
get it to compile.
  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-11-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8250  
 




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-11-03 15:32 ---
(In reply to comment #10)
 You don't need a newer drm kernel module (in fact 2.6.18 should be just as
 recent as the one from the old cvs repo), however you may need a new libdrm to
 get it to compile.

It compiled just fine using libdrm-2.2.0, but refused to run because of a
missing drmCloseOnce() symbol. Something somewhere must be out of sync.
  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-10-28 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8250  
 




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-10-28 06:33 ---
(In reply to comment #5)
 Please see wine bug 6502
 http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6502
 And try the workaround patch. I'm just trying to make sure whether this is the
 same problem or not.

I can now absolutely confirm that this is nothing at all to do with wine bug 
6502.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-10-28 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-10-28 09:42 ---
Does World of Warcraft have any option related to particles? In Warcraft 3,
there is a Particles option. I fixed my problem by setting particles from High
to Medium and restarting the game.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-10-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-10-27 13:54 ---
Please see wine bug 6502
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6502
And try the workaround patch. I'm just trying to make sure whether this is the
same problem or not.  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-10-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-10-15 23:06 ---
Ok. Tried and obviously made no difference in this case. I don't think that war3
even uses vertex program. But the issue does look oddly similar.   
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-10-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-10-14 06:07 ---
I'm disabling GL_ARB_vertex_program via Wine, which has a registry key for
listing OpenGL extensions that you don't want to be used:

http://appdb.winehq.org/appimage.php?iId=3746  
 
 
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[Bug 8250] Warcraft player avatars not rendered correctly when GL_ARB_vertex_program enabled.

2006-10-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||[EMAIL PROTECTED]




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2006-10-13 20:50 ---
How are you disabling GL_ARB_vertex_program now that the option for software
vp has been removed from driconf?

I'm not doubting your theory. I think I've seen a related problem in Warcraft 3,
but I haven't yet pinpointed the problem. I've always been thinking it's related
to tcl.  
 
 
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