Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
Salut, On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 12:46:51PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote: But there does appear to be one other user of inter_module_... MTD driver for M-Systems Disk-On-Chip Millennium Plus mtd/devices/doc2001plus.c mtd/chips/cfi_cmdset_0001.c nvidia and ati use them as well, it seems. Not that I'd care about them, though. They can roll their own fixes as they decided to. Tonnerre signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:47:00 +0200, Tonnerre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 12:46:51PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote: But there does appear to be one other user of inter_module_... MTD driver for M-Systems Disk-On-Chip Millennium Plus mtd/devices/doc2001plus.c mtd/chips/cfi_cmdset_0001.c nvidia and ati use them as well, it seems. Not that I'd care about them, though. They can roll their own fixes as they decided to. Nvidia and ATI probably use it because they are derived from Linux DRM/AGP code. When I remove it from the Linux drivers it may disappear from theirs too. I CC'd a few of the email addresses in the MTD driver's source. -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
Jon Smirl wrote: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT), Mike Mestnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about moving the DRM and FB specific code into there own per card libs? radeon - attached to hardware radeon-drm drm - library radeon-fb fb - library fbcon - library Fell free to convert the merged radeon driver in to a driver plus two libs if you want. I'll accept the patch back. You'll need to wait until I get the merged driver working. What I don't want is two independent implementations of the hardware initialization code like we currently have. The point of merging is to make sure that a single logical driver programs the hardware is a consistent way. We spend so much time talking about splitting the radeon driver into pieces. But I don't hear anyone saying I can't ship my product because the radeon driver is 120K and all I can handle is 60K. I'm not going to spend a week's work breaking things up and testing them just because of some theoretical need for a non-existant embedded system. When this hypothetical embedded system shows up the people making the money off from the system can do the work. Perhaps there might be some feedback from the embedded folks and/or those who decide if these changes are what they want to go in the kernel. If you're going to do something like this, one of the embedded vendors might want to contribute to development. Clearly smaller software parts have advantages, if resources were available to do it split as part of the modification. That would probably reduce the maintenence effort in the future as well. -- -bill davidsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the last possible moment - but no longer -me --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
In this model a non-drm, fb only driver like cyber2000 could load only the fb and fbcon modules. I need to do some work rearranging generic library support functions to allow this. I think the stated issue with this is, how big the fb driver now becomes because all the DRM stuff is in it... I think a radeon common, with radeonfb/radeondrm is probably going to be needed, Hopefully tomorrow (I've a day off, but the weather is getting nice as well :-), I'll get some time to port some stuff to the vga class stuff, I also want to prepare some patches for the kernel for the previous work you've done ... Dave. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
Resource reservations are not the central problem with merging fbdev and drm. The central problem is that both card specific drivers initialize the hardware, program it in conflicting ways, allocate the video memory differently, etc. Moving to a single card specific driver lets me fix that. In the final form both the VGA scheme and my code provide shared resource reservation code. The main difference between the schemes is that the VGA scheme allows multiple independent card drivers while mine only allow a single merged one. Multiple card drivers in the past has resulted in conflicting programming of the hardware. I suppose we could write a bunch of rules about how to share the hardware but that seems like a lot of complicated work. The radeon has over 200 registers that would need rules for what settings are allowed. It's a lot easier to simply merge 20K of radeonfb driver into the radeondrm and eliminate this error prone process. If we could all just concentrate on fixing the radeondrm driver we could build a complete driver for the radeon cards instead of the ten half finished ones we have today. Once we get a complete driver the incentive for people to write new ones will be gone. The two models look like this: vga - attached to hardware radeon-drm drm - library radeon-fb fb - library fbcon - library My model radeon - attached to hardware drm - library fb - library fbcon - library vga - independent driver, there is only one VGA device even if multiple radeons. This driver is responsible for secondary card resets. In the first model radeon-drm and radeon-fb can run independently. This requires duplication of the initialization code. Since the are separate drivers they can and do have completely different models for programming the hardware. At VT switch time the drivers have to save/restore state. In the second model it is not required that a driver support both fb and drm. Something like cyber2000 does have to link in drm since it has no use for it. A complaint in the second model might be that the radeon driver is 120K. If some embedded system is really, really tight on RAM and they are embedding a radeon but don't want to use its advanced abilities, there is nothing stopping someone from splitting the radeon driver up into pieces. I will happily take the patch. Doing this is probably a week's worth of coding and testing to get maybe 50K memory savings. Simplest way to do this is to add IFDEFs to remove drm support from the merged radeon driver. -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Jon Smirl wrote: If we could all just concentrate on fixing the radeondrm driver we could build a complete driver for the radeon cards instead of the ten half finished ones we have today. Once we get a complete driver the incentive for people to write new ones will be gone. My model radeon - attached to hardware drm - library fb - library fbcon - library Can we add to this km library ? (That's the GATOS v4l module) In particular, I can contribute the code that does Framebuffer-System Ram transfers over PCI/AGP. It is currently GPL licensed, but there is no problem if BSD folks want it too. This is also potentially useful for any Mesa functions that want to transfer data back from video RAM - using plain reads for this is really slow. best Vladimir Dergachev --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
km - library Libraries are kernel modules that don't attach to any specific hardware, they just supply routines for other drivers to call. We might want to change the name of these to libdrm, libfb, libkm. I haven't looked into Gatos yet but I'd like to see the radeon converted to follow the model of all of the other vl4 cards instead of having it's own system. In the X on GL world the 2D XAA radeon driver is gone. Gatos support will need to live somewhere else. Jon, this is a common misconception - GATOS km module *does* provide a v4l interface. What is different is that the device configuration (like setting the tuner or encoding) is done by Xserver. All km does is check whether the card can supply a v4l stream and, if so, it provides it. This is little different from a webcam driver, especially if a webcam has its own on/off switch. The misconception arises from the fact that many v4l programs were only made to work with bt848 cards - they would *not* work with webcams any more than they would work with km. best Vladimir Dergachev -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:26:54 +0100 (IST), Dave Airlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also want to prepare some patches for the kernel for the previous work you've done ... Did you get around to making ffb compile? Have all of the drivers been given minimal testing? I've done radeon and r128. Is the general consensus that the core model is the way to go for 2.6? Once drm-core makes it into the kernel I can do another patch to remove the inter_module_get calls between drm and agp. With those gone inter_module can be removed from the kernel. But there does appear to be one other user of inter_module_... MTD driver for M-Systems Disk-On-Chip Millennium Plus mtd/devices/doc2001plus.c mtd/chips/cfi_cmdset_0001.c Dave. -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
How is the tuner controlled? Is it a V4L insterface? On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:59:38 -0400 (EDT), Vladimir Dergachev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, this is a common misconception - GATOS km module *does* provide a v4l interface. What is different is that the device configuration (like setting the tuner or encoding) is done by Xserver. All km does is check whether the card can supply a v4l stream and, if so, it provides it. This is little different from a webcam driver, especially if a webcam has its own on/off switch. The misconception arises from the fact that many v4l programs were only made to work with bt848 cards - they would *not* work with webcams any more than they would work with km. best Vladimir Dergachev -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
What about moving the DRM and FB specific code into there own per card libs? radeon - attached to hardware radeon-drm drm - library radeon-fb fb - library fbcon - library Keeping in mind that any/all external symbols to/from radeon-drm and radeon-fb can/should be weak. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Jon Smirl wrote: How is the tuner controlled? Is it a V4L insterface? No, the tuner is controlled via Xserver Xv extension. No V4L interface is provided for tuner control. best Vladimir Dergachev On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:59:38 -0400 (EDT), Vladimir Dergachev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, this is a common misconception - GATOS km module *does* provide a v4l interface. What is different is that the device configuration (like setting the tuner or encoding) is done by Xserver. All km does is check whether the card can supply a v4l stream and, if so, it provides it. This is little different from a webcam driver, especially if a webcam has its own on/off switch. The misconception arises from the fact that many v4l programs were only made to work with bt848 cards - they would *not* work with webcams any more than they would work with km. best Vladimir Dergachev -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
Is there are device driver level interface defined for controlling tuners? Or is this something that even needs to be done in a device driver? With X on GL Xv will have to change form too. On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:37:03 -0400 (EDT), Vladimir Dergachev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Jon Smirl wrote: How is the tuner controlled? Is it a V4L insterface? No, the tuner is controlled via Xserver Xv extension. No V4L interface is provided for tuner control. best Vladimir Dergachev On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:59:38 -0400 (EDT), Vladimir Dergachev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, this is a common misconception - GATOS km module *does* provide a v4l interface. What is different is that the device configuration (like setting the tuner or encoding) is done by Xserver. All km does is check whether the card can supply a v4l stream and, if so, it provides it. This is little different from a webcam driver, especially if a webcam has its own on/off switch. The misconception arises from the fact that many v4l programs were only made to work with bt848 cards - they would *not* work with webcams any more than they would work with km. best Vladimir Dergachev -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
On Sul, 2004-10-03 at 16:50, Vladimir Dergachev wrote: In particular, I can contribute the code that does Framebuffer-System Ram transfers over PCI/AGP. It is currently GPL licensed, but there is no problem if BSD folks want it too. This will do *wonders* to X render performance if used properly on those cards we can't do render in hardware. This is also potentially useful for any Mesa functions that want to transfer data back from video RAM - using plain reads for this is really slow. Agreed - and Mesa tends to skip even tricks like SSE2 that can quadruple read performance. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Alan Cox wrote: On Sul, 2004-10-03 at 16:50, Vladimir Dergachev wrote: In particular, I can contribute the code that does Framebuffer-System Ram transfers over PCI/AGP. It is currently GPL licensed, but there is no problem if BSD folks want it too. This will do *wonders* to X render performance if used properly on those cards we can't do render in hardware. This is also potentially useful for any Mesa functions that want to transfer data back from video RAM - using plain reads for this is really slow. Agreed - and Mesa tends to skip even tricks like SSE2 that can quadruple read performance. I am glad to see such enthusiasm :) The code I have only does it on ATI cards (all radeons, all rage128, some mach64). The radeon code is the one that is known to work well. My personal interest is that Framebuffer - System Ram transfer is needed if one wants to use Radeon GPUs for numerical computation. Thus, if there is an agreement on what needs to be done and what modifications are acceptable I can make this a priority. What kind of interface would different projects want ? Should I wait for Jon's modifications to complete ? What people should we include on CC list ? Also here is a short description of current km design: * km.[c,h] - this provides module registration and DMA queue virtualization (note: this is GUI_DMA queue, different from what DRM uses) * radeon.c, rage128.c, mach64.c - these are hardware specific functions * km_memory.[c,h] - this is v4l code for reverse mapping, I guess it is obsolete in 2.6.x kernels * km_api.[c,h] km_api_data.[c,h] - this is a new interface for video (and similar devices), an experiment to implement features not present in v4l or v4l2. ** I am not suggesting this be included. ** * km_v4l.c - this is a client of km_api that provides v4l interface. The first two pieces can be ported with ease - there are few modifications to be made, just cut the code that registers the driver. The km_api piece will need to be replaced with interface everyone agrees on. Please let me know your comments ! best Vladimir Dergachev --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: Merging DRM and fbdev
On Sul, 2004-10-03 at 23:42, Jon Smirl wrote: Is there are device driver level interface defined for controlling tuners? Both at the Xv and the kernel level yes. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Merging DRM and fbdev
I've started on a merged fbdev and DRM driver model. It doesn't work yet but here's what the modules look like: Module Size Used by fbcon 38080 0 radeon123598 1 fb 34344 2 fbcon,radeon drm59044 1 radeon fbcon and fb modules are almost unmodified from the kernel source. radeonfb and radeondrm have been merged into a single driver. The merged driver uses both the drm and fb modules as libraries. It wasn't possible to build this model until drm supported drm-core. The radeon and fb modules will get smaller, I'm just beginning to use the delete key on them. There is still a lot of duplicated code inside the radeon driver. In this model a non-drm, fb only driver like cyber2000 could load only the fb and fbcon modules. I need to do some work rearranging generic library support functions to allow this. This is the next phase in the work described in this email: http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/8/2/111 -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl -- ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
