Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
Conversely, if MS considers OpenGL to be dead and buried, period, it seems that Bill would be bit silly to want to spend $62.5 to become the owner of said dead + buried technology!! Mike Gareth Hughes wrote: Philip Brown wrote: but I would say that microsoft DOES want to kill OpenGL, since then they would control the only useful 3D API. It's all about creating monopolies. (so he can build hotels?) Allen's original statement made the point that MS considers OpenGL to be dead and buried, period. They've fought that battle, and in their mind, won. If this is the case, suggesting MS is out buying patents to kill off the DRI seems a bit silly... -- Gareth ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
On Monday 21 January 2002 09:21 am, Mike Westall wrote: Conversely, if MS considers OpenGL to be dead and buried, period, it seems that Bill would be bit silly to want to spend $62.5 to become the owner of said dead + buried technology!! OpenGL is not really technology- it's an API that drives the technology. MS is very likely shopping more tech for DirectX. -- Frank Earl ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 09:21:54AM -0500, Mike Westall wrote: | Conversely, if MS considers OpenGL to be dead and buried, | period, it seems that Bill would be bit silly to want to | spend $62.5 to become the owner of said dead + buried | technology!! I doubt that most of SGI's patents are OpenGL-related. (They weren't when I was last involved, though I admit that was five years ago.) A quick check at delphion.com for patents containing the phrase silicon graphics seems to confirm that, so I'll stick with my original guess that MS wants IP related to hardware. Allen ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
RE: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
Frank C. Earl wrote: On Monday 21 January 2002 09:21 am, Mike Westall wrote: Conversely, if MS considers OpenGL to be dead and buried, period, it seems that Bill would be bit silly to want to spend $62.5 to become the owner of said dead + buried technology!! OpenGL is not really technology- it's an API that drives the technology. MS is very likely shopping more tech for DirectX. Yes, owning SGI patents != owning the OpenGL trademark. -- Gareth ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:11:39PM -0800, Gareth Hughes wrote: ... The DRI is encompassed by OpenGL (as a whole), and if Microsoft isn't interested in killing OpenGL because they don't consider it a threat (*), one would reach the conclusion they don't care about the DRI either. (*) but I would say that microsoft DOES want to kill OpenGL, since then they would control the only useful 3D API. It's all about creating monopolies. (so he can build hotels?) ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
On 2002.01.21 00:41 Philip Brown wrote: On Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 07:17:40AM -0800, Gareth Hughes wrote: Philip Brown wrote: but I would say that microsoft DOES want to kill OpenGL, ... Allen's original statement made the point that MS considers OpenGL to be dead and buried, period. They've fought that battle, and in their mind, won. If this is the case, suggesting MS is out buying patents to kill off the DRI seems a bit silly... This is just standard M$ proceedure: Riddicule the opposition as irrelevant, while simultaneously trying to destroy/absorb/assimilate them. remember who needs multitasking? I also have the opinion that Microsoft will do what will whatever it can to mine OpenGL in favor of DirectX - it was their policy since the begining.. But putting opinions aside, assuming that they have bought from SGI the intellectual property related with OpenGL, how far can they go? OpenGL is a standard. Only the sample implementation, the use of the OpenGL logo and claim of conformance are subject to license. There is already a free OpenGL compatible implementation (Mesa). So even if Microsoft holds on to these licenses it could never prevent that developers and vendors use Opengl alike solutions, i.e., that don't claim OpenGL conformance officialy. Or am I wrong is this thinking? Of course this scenario is hypotetical because because high-end graphical software uses OpenGL, especially because of its cross platform range, and I don't see DirectX running outside of Windows: it's strongly based on COM and Microsoft always marketed it mainly as agame API. Anyway, this stuff was left in the worst hands that they could be... Jose Fonseca _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
RE: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
I think microsoft is trying to kill DRI. It is a big threat to all their products. If the open source community can offer good 3d graphics at low cost then their system will suffer a good loss in market share. Ummm, somehow I don't think so... The DRI is encompassed by OpenGL (as a whole), and if Microsoft isn't interested in killing OpenGL because they don't consider it a threat (*), one would reach the conclusion they don't care about the DRI either. -- Gareth (*) Based on Allen Akin's original comment. ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
Dan wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/23708.html This does not look good for OpenGL / DRI. The article is not very specific though. I assume that xfree86 doesn't use anything affected by these patents, otherwise it wouldn't be able to carry it's current license. Is this correct? However The Register has some good points about what this means for OpenGL support from hardware manufacturers. Any comments? Someone else asked for my comments yesterday, here's what I wrote. -- Well, it's disappointing to hear that SGI is selling off still more of its assets, especially to Microsoft. It strikes me as short-sighted thinking by SGI. The consequences of Microsoft holding these patents is hard to predict. I don't know how many patents are involved nor the nature of them, though I'd guess that they're hardware-centric. That could be a big problem for the various hardware vendors if Microsoft decides to take an offensive position with the patents. I don't think I have anything to worry about with Mesa (at least for now). Most of the algorithms used in Mesa are very widely used and have been around for a long time. What would Microsoft have to gain by going after me/Mesa? Certainly not money. The ill-will they'd generate would only further tarnish their image. As Mesa adopts newer graphics techniques (like vertex and frament- level programming) I have to be mindful of stepping on other's intellectual property, but that hasn't been a big deal so far. NVIDIA, for example, was very agreeable when I asked for permission to include their NV_vertex_program extension in Mesa. Don't take my comments as gospel though. I don't know what Microsoft's up to and I'm not especially knowledgeable of patent issues. -Brian ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 10:08:54PM +1100, Dan wrote: | http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/23708.html Of course we don't know exactly which patents are involved, or what the terms of the transfer were. But my guess would be that the patents primarily involve hardware, and Microsoft is interested in covering its potential liabilities as it moves into the hardware market (though XBox, Homestation or whatever it turns out to be, UltimateTV, and various embedded systems). It's unlikely to be a move to shut down OpenGL, because, frankly, Microsoft no longer sees OpenGL as a threat in any of the markets Microsoft cares about. Allen ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
Of course we don't know exactly which patents are involved, or what the terms of the transfer were. But my guess would be that the patents primarily involve hardware, and Microsoft is interested in covering its potential liabilities as it moves into the hardware market (though XBox, Homestation or whatever it turns out to be, UltimateTV, and various embedded systems). I actually disagree. I suspect they are more likely to be software patents. I don't think Microsoft has any intentions on becoming a chip designer/manufacturer or even a hardware manufacturer. There is very little inside XBox outside of the software that is Microsoft. Intel makes the CPU. NVIDIA makes the graphics and media processors. Intel/NVIDIA designed the motherboard. The hard drive is certainly not Microsofts (IBM?) and Microsoft almost certainly doesn't manufacturer the XBox. Microsoft is and I suspect always will be a software development and marketing/distribution company. I just can't see them having much interest in any of SGI's hardware patents. David _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] SGI transfers 3D graphics patents to MS
I think microsoft is trying to kill DRI. It is a big threat to all their products. If the open source community can offer good 3d graphics at low cost then their system will suffer a good loss in market share. On Friday, January 18, 2002 at 01:06:05 AM, David Johnson wrote: Of course we don't know exactly which patents are involved, or what the terms of the transfer were. But my guess would be that the patents primarily involve hardware, and Microsoft is interested in covering its potential liabilities as it moves into the hardware market (though XBox, Homestation or whatever it turns out to be, UltimateTV, and various embedded systems). I actually disagree. I suspect they are more likely to be software patents. I don't think Microsoft has any intentions on becoming a chip designer/manufacturer or even a hardware manufacturer. There is very little inside XBox outside of the software that is Microsoft. Intel makes the CPU. NVIDIA makes the graphics and media processors. Intel/NVIDIA designed the motherboard. The hard drive is certainly not Microsofts (IBM?) and Microsoft almost certainly doesn't manufacturer the XBox. Microsoft is and I suspect always will be a software development and marketing/distribution company. I just can't see them having much interest in any of SGI's hardware patents. David _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel rogelio e-mail: rogelio@localhost -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
