Re: [Dspace-tech] [Dspace-general] DSpace: "digital" archive or "literature" archive?
MacKenzie It was not my intention to create a "vendor tone" around DSpace; for what its worth I have had (and seen others having) similar kinds of discussions around other OSS on other mailing lists ... with no "adverse reactions". My intention was not to try and highlight any shortcomings or cast any aspersions on the usability of DSpace; rather, I was trying to see where it could or might not meet our specific needs. We do have a preference to use an OSS solution - and one of the great aspects of the OSS development model is that there is often are choices; with each one having its own pros or cons. I have already learnt a lot on this thread to help me with that choice. I also wish you well in your endeavours to continue with DSpace development - as you say, there have been inputs from the members of the DSpace technical community ... but don't forget to hear the occasional voices of the less technical as well! Derek >>> MacKenzie Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2007/06/04 03:30 PM >>> Dear Derek, Richard, et al. I am occasionally amazed at the degree to which DSpace, after 5 years as an open source software project, is still talked about as if it were a vendor product... of course it has limitations... all software does, especially when it's five years old and actually getting used. But in this the outcome is in *your* hands. Based on its cumulative experience, last year some members of the DSpace technical community produced an architecture for needed improvements to the system: http://wiki.dspace.org/index.php/ArchReviewReport Michele Kimpton, the new Executive Director of the DSpace Foundation, is now at work on how we can collectively move that forward. We need to figure out the funding model to get this work done, but I'm pretty confident it will happen... there are too many organizations depending on DSpace now to let it age out of existence, mine included. And there's always that data export exit strategy if it does -- one of the original requirements of the system that acknowledges how short the life span of software is these days, and how little we still know about the "right" way to build these systems. Cheers, MacKenzie MIT Libraries Derek Hohls wrote: > Richard > > Thanks for sharing those ideas and thoughts. > > I looked at the Nuxeo site, and also read through the technical > comparison > by Richard Wyles - very interesting. I also looked the Fedora case > study > implementation by Richard Green [sidebar - there do seem to be lots of > > Richards here... is it just a coincidence that my middle name is - > Richard!] > > In summary, I have gathered that: > > * DSpace is less technically capable, does not scale as well, does not > handle complex objects or variety of objects, or mass-uploading of > data, > but has an easy and simple front-end for users and administrators. > There > is also a wealth of start-up material and a good community. > > * Fedora is more technically capable, scales well (within our likely > limits > at least), seems to handle complex objects with a variety of data types > - MIME- > based. There is no front-end that works on the web; and the Java > interface > that is supplied looks absolutely barebones at best. The concepts and > ideas > of Fedora also seem quite complex and are not clearly explained in the > starting > documentation. User docs and tutorials seem minimal. Community > support > is unknown. > > Richard Green's case study says: > "Fedora 'out of the box' was a software tool with an associated very > steep learning > curve and a user had to rely heavily on documentation available on the > Fedora > website... we came to realise that the documentation appeared to lack > some > crucial elements and that, for a first time user, it was sometimes not > easy to follow." > > * Nuxeo might be promising; it has lots of flash but the capabilities > are harder > to discern. The emphasis seems to be on CMS, which is not really what > we need; > from their website list of features: > # Workspaces to create and work on documents > # Flexible versioning of documents > # Document Life Cycle Management > # Collaboration features such as comments, on-demand notifications, > etc. > # Search / Query interface to the document repository > > > This leaves us in a difficult position between two choices; > (a) to hold off and hope for Fedora to significantly improve the front > end > and user documentation... which might be problematic as its not clear > > how there funding will continue after September this year (2007), > and there is no project roadmap, so its not that clear as to what they > will > actually focus on. > (b) to go on with DSpace, and acknowledge that its a temporary > solution > which may not adequately address many of our use cases (although still > a > step up from holding all research data on local drives or on a DMS). > if > we later decide to switch to Fedora, I hope it would be possible to > extrac
Re: [Dspace-tech] [Dspace-general] DSpace: "digital" archive or "literature" archive?
Dear Derek, Richard, et al. I am occasionally amazed at the degree to which DSpace, after 5 years as an open source software project, is still talked about as if it were a vendor product... of course it has limitations... all software does, especially when it's five years old and actually getting used. But in this the outcome is in *your* hands. Based on its cumulative experience, last year some members of the DSpace technical community produced an architecture for needed improvements to the system: http://wiki.dspace.org/index.php/ArchReviewReport Michele Kimpton, the new Executive Director of the DSpace Foundation, is now at work on how we can collectively move that forward. We need to figure out the funding model to get this work done, but I'm pretty confident it will happen... there are too many organizations depending on DSpace now to let it age out of existence, mine included. And there's always that data export exit strategy if it does -- one of the original requirements of the system that acknowledges how short the life span of software is these days, and how little we still know about the "right" way to build these systems. Cheers, MacKenzie MIT Libraries Derek Hohls wrote: > Richard > > Thanks for sharing those ideas and thoughts. > > I looked at the Nuxeo site, and also read through the technical > comparison > by Richard Wyles - very interesting. I also looked the Fedora case > study > implementation by Richard Green [sidebar - there do seem to be lots of > > Richards here... is it just a coincidence that my middle name is - > Richard!] > > In summary, I have gathered that: > > * DSpace is less technically capable, does not scale as well, does not > handle complex objects or variety of objects, or mass-uploading of > data, > but has an easy and simple front-end for users and administrators. > There > is also a wealth of start-up material and a good community. > > * Fedora is more technically capable, scales well (within our likely > limits > at least), seems to handle complex objects with a variety of data types > - MIME- > based. There is no front-end that works on the web; and the Java > interface > that is supplied looks absolutely barebones at best. The concepts and > ideas > of Fedora also seem quite complex and are not clearly explained in the > starting > documentation. User docs and tutorials seem minimal. Community > support > is unknown. > > Richard Green's case study says: > "Fedora 'out of the box' was a software tool with an associated very > steep learning > curve and a user had to rely heavily on documentation available on the > Fedora > website... we came to realise that the documentation appeared to lack > some > crucial elements and that, for a first time user, it was sometimes not > easy to follow." > > * Nuxeo might be promising; it has lots of flash but the capabilities > are harder > to discern. The emphasis seems to be on CMS, which is not really what > we need; > from their website list of features: > # Workspaces to create and work on documents > # Flexible versioning of documents > # Document Life Cycle Management > # Collaboration features such as comments, on-demand notifications, > etc. > # Search / Query interface to the document repository > > > This leaves us in a difficult position between two choices; > (a) to hold off and hope for Fedora to significantly improve the front > end > and user documentation... which might be problematic as its not clear > > how there funding will continue after September this year (2007), > and there is no project roadmap, so its not that clear as to what they > will > actually focus on. > (b) to go on with DSpace, and acknowledge that its a temporary > solution > which may not adequately address many of our use cases (although still > a > step up from holding all research data on local drives or on a DMS). > if > we later decide to switch to Fedora, I hope it would be possible to > extract > the content out for the new system. DSpace says: > http://wiki.dspace.org/index.php//EndUserFaq#Can_I_export_my_digital_material_out_of_DSpace.3F > > this is possible > > > Derek > > > Richard MAHONEY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2007/06/01 01:26:42 AM >>> > > Dear Derek, > > On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 00:20, Derek Hohls wrote: > >> I have recently installed and started looking at DSpace as a >> > "digital" > >> repository. >> >> Background: >> I work in a science research organisation. We are clustered into >> hierarchical groups doing "similar" work, but this structure changes >> > and > >> evolves all the time. Most of the work we do is in the form of >> projects. Each project tackles a particular subject, with a >> > start/end > >> date. As a result of this, any number of digital "objects" are >> generated: PDF's, images, presentations, reports, spreadsheets, data >> files, model runs outputs, program code, spatial files etc. >> > Usua
Re: [Dspace-tech] [Dspace-general] DSpace: "digital" archive or "literature" archive?
Hello Derek, On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 21:38, Derek Hohls wrote: > Richard > > Thanks for sharing those ideas and thoughts. > I looked at the Nuxeo site, and also read through the technical > comparison by Richard Wyles - very interesting. I also looked the > Fedora case study implementation by Richard Green > In summary, I have gathered that: > * DSpace is less technically capable, does not scale as well, does not > handle complex objects or variety of objects, or mass-uploading of > data, but has an easy and simple front-end for users and > administrators. There is also a wealth of start-up material and a good > community. > * Fedora is more technically capable, scales well (within our likely > limits at least), seems to handle complex objects with a variety of > data types - MIME- based. There is no front-end that works on the > web; and the Java interface that is supplied looks absolutely > barebones at best. The concepts and ideas of Fedora also seem quite > complex and are not clearly explained in the starting documentation. > User docs and tutorials seem minimal. Community support is unknown. > Richard Green's case study says: "Fedora 'out of the box' was a > software tool with an associated very steep learning curve and a user > had to rely heavily on documentation available on the Fedora > website... we came to realise that the documentation appeared to lack > some crucial elements and that, for a first time user, it was sometimes > not easy to follow." > This leaves us in a difficult position between two choices; > (a) to hold off and hope for Fedora to significantly improve the front > end and user documentation... which might be problematic as its not > clear how there funding will continue after September this year > (2007), and there is no project roadmap, so its not that clear as to > what they will actually focus on. > (b) to go on with DSpace, and acknowledge that its a temporary solution > which may not adequately address many of our use cases (although still > a step up from holding all research data on local drives or on a DMS). > if we later decide to switch to Fedora, I hope it would be possible to > extract the content out for the new system. DSpace says: > > http://wiki.dspace.org/index.php//EndUserFaq#Can_I_export_my_digital_material_out_of_DSpace.3F > > this is possible Another option -- which I forgot to mention -- may be MyCoRe, at least once the interface and documentation are available in English (anticipated): About MyCoRe: http://www.mycore.de/content/main/information.xml Features: http://www.mycore.de/content/main/information/description.xml Applications (Deployments): http://www.mycore.de/content/main/anwendungen.xml MyCoRe Documentation: http://www.mycore.de/content/main/documentation.xml Note the commitment to support enterprise grade databases, support for audio and video streaming, and an Z39.50 interface. Best regards, Richard Mahoney -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/ Littledene | telephone/telefax (man.): +64 3 312 1699 Bay Road| cellular: +64 27 482 9986 OXFORD, NZ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~ Indica et Buddhica: Materials for Indology and Buddhology Repositorium: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/repositorium/ Philologica: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/philologica/ Subscriptions: http://subscriptions.indica-et-buddhica.org/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ DSpace-tech mailing list DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
Re: [Dspace-tech] [Dspace-general] DSpace: "digital" archive or "literature" archive?
Dear Derek, On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 00:20, Derek Hohls wrote: > I have recently installed and started looking at DSpace as a "digital" > repository. > > Background: > I work in a science research organisation. We are clustered into > hierarchical groups doing "similar" work, but this structure changes and > evolves all the time. Most of the work we do is in the form of > projects. Each project tackles a particular subject, with a start/end > date. As a result of this, any number of digital "objects" are > generated: PDF's, images, presentations, reports, spreadsheets, data > files, model runs outputs, program code, spatial files etc. Usually, > such material is archived on CD and kept "somewhere". > > The organisation does run a formal Document Management System (DMS); > this is typically used for project reports and has the facilities of > document security control, access, version tracking etc. Its also > integrated into other tools we use. > > Problem Statement: > I need to provision a system that can be used a complete "digital" > archive; that stores *all* digital information in an accessible and > easily retrievable manner, with easy uploading/downloading of material > into the archive. > > Impression of DSpace: > My early, high expectations of DSpace have been tempered somewhat as I > have started looking at the interface in more detail. My impression so > far is that DSpace seems designed as primarily for occasional storage of > literature-type of material, within the framework of a stable > organisational framework, whereas I am looking for frequent storage of > widely varying material within a shifting organisational framework, > accompanied by ongoing staff turnover. > > I really would like some input from the existing community - especially > those that may have similar experience in this kind of environment, > whether or not DSpace is the tool to use. In particular, some of the > worrying limits I have seen so far are ... [snip] I have been using DSpace for over a year now -- 1.3.x and 1.4.x -- on Solaris 10 with Sun's Java System Web Server (6.1 and 7.0). I use DSpace for Indica et Buddhica - Repositorium: a digital archive designed to capture, store, index, preserve, and distribute materials pertinent to Indology and South Asian Buddhology. While the aim is to build an archive that enables Indologists and Buddhologists to catalogue and store a variety of materials -- articles, books, images, theses, software, working papers and so on -- the main concern at present is to lay the foundation by filling the archive with relevant bibliographical records. This is underway and almost 25,000 records are available already, the same number again should be loaded within the next few weeks. More details here: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/repositorium-preview You are at the critical stage of selecting and assessing an archival platform so I will try to address your concerns candidly. I am currently using DSpace only as -- for me -- there is presently no suitable alternative. While I was impressed by proven scalability of Fedora, the lack of a decent Java web app. admin. and user interface ruled it out. (I prefer to avoid PHP apps if possible, and last time I tried Fez it consistently crashed Sun's Web Server -- completely unacceptable on a test server, let alone in production.) Another suite capable of scaling was CDS Invenio (a.k.a. CDSWare). Unfortunately it is rather complex to compile, configure and maintain on Solaris so is not currently an option. Unfortunately, all that is really left is DSpace, with its well known performance and scalability issues. Although these shortcomings have been raised many times on the mailing lists I seen no evidence that they are being addressed with anything but lip service. The discouraging findings of this technical evaluation, I believe, still hold: a.) Technical Evaluation of Research Repositories (Richard Wyles - 2006-09-14 16:49) https://eduforge.org/docman/?group_id=131 >From my own perspective, then, I see DSpace as nothing but a temporary solution until a good Java web app. is developed for Fedora. Another alternative, perhaps more likely in the short term, is Nuxeo's soon to be released Java app. Nuxeo 5. I am already using their Zope based CPS 4 for the front end of my site and very happy with it. Nuxeo claims that CPS 4 has been tested and approved with more than 3TB of live data (3 million documents). It is intended that version 5 will effortlessly scale to over 5TB. This will need to be assessed, but early indications are convincing. Below are a few references. You may like to note that their current development is being driven by the needs of clients perhaps not so very different from your own: i.) Nuxeo Home Page: http://www.nuxeo.com/ ii.) CPS Project Page: http://www.cps-project.org/ iii.) About the Zope to Java technology switch (CPS 4 to Nuxeo 5): http://www.nuxeo.com/en/java-switch/ iv.) Nuxeo
