[Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[Monika C. Mevenkamp]

Hi

my boss discovered a dspace docker

so which one should I do - docker or vagrant ?

They  sound awfully alike
  the host can connect to things : tomcat / ssh / ...
  files can be shared between host and   vagrant/docker guest
  it appears to be easy to hand a ‘vagrant’ or a ‘docker’ to another developer

so what’s the deal ?
why one over the other ?

Monika

—
Monika Mevenkamp
Digital Repository Infrastructure Developer
Phone: 609-258-4161
333C 701 Carnegie, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544

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Re: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[helix84]

Hi Monika,

this will eventually boil down to a generic discussion of VMs vs.
containers which you can look up anywhere.


Let me just point out one important consideration - security.

With Vagrant, you get an official way of creating a VM using scripts made
by DSpace commiters, whom you already trust if you use DSpace.

With Docker, one of the advantages is being able to use the Docker Hub
Registry of images, which is just code from random people on the internet.
The question is do you want to use these, even in a development
environment? Of course, you have the option of creating the whole container
from scratch including the OS - you'll lose some of the benefits of Docker
this way, but you'll have more certainty that you're not running any
malicious code. Second security consideration is that of container
isolation in Linux, which is not particularly strong, but this matters only
if you run multiple containers per machine.


I also talked about this briefly with Hardy and he pointed out one benefit
of Vagrant - vagrant-share.


Regards,
~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[Hilton Gibson]

Hi All,

All this talk of automated service provisioning, reminded me to ask the
list if anyone has considered a "juju" charm?
See: https://jujucharms.com

It would be great if you could: # juju dspace
And then all the linux stuff is done automatically, all that would remain
is customisation via the new planned admin gui.

Cheers

hg

*Hilton Gibson*
Ubuntu Linux Systems Administrator
Stellenbosch University Library
http://staff.lib.sun.ac.za/~hgibson/docs/cv/cv.html


On 24 June 2015 at 09:43, helix84  wrote:

> Hi Monika,
>
> this will eventually boil down to a generic discussion of VMs vs.
> containers which you can look up anywhere.
>
>
> Let me just point out one important consideration - security.
>
> With Vagrant, you get an official way of creating a VM using scripts made
> by DSpace commiters, whom you already trust if you use DSpace.
>
> With Docker, one of the advantages is being able to use the Docker Hub
> Registry of images, which is just code from random people on the internet.
> The question is do you want to use these, even in a development
> environment? Of course, you have the option of creating the whole container
> from scratch including the OS - you'll lose some of the benefits of Docker
> this way, but you'll have more certainty that you're not running any
> malicious code. Second security consideration is that of container
> isolation in Linux, which is not particularly strong, but this matters only
> if you run multiple containers per machine.
>
>
> I also talked about this briefly with Hardy and he pointed out one benefit
> of Vagrant - vagrant-share.
>
>
> Regards,
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>
>
>
> --
> Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
> ___
> DSpace-tech mailing list
> DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
> List Etiquette:
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>
--
Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o___
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[Alan Orth]

My opinion: deploy on a dedicated machine environment (hardware or
software). Containers are "cool" but still, I haven't figured out how they
fit into my workflow yet. Even for simple testing, a VM is an easier
concept to grasp, rather than figuring out all the hipster devops Docker
jargon, and THEN struggling with the DSpace learning curve. I guess that
means I'd recommend Vagrant, because it's more likely to reflect what
you'll be running DSpace on in production.

On a related note, I've deployed enough DSpace instances that I automated
most of the process using a 'dspace' role in the Ansible playbooks for our
infrastructure (see: roles -> dspace -> tasks -> main.yml):

https://github.com/ilri/rmg-ansible-public

It's not "turnkey", but gets most of the monotonous setup done (package
dependencies, Tomcat templates, git clone of DSpace repo, web server setup,
TLS cipher suite configuration, etc).

Alan

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:13 AM Hilton Gibson 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> All this talk of automated service provisioning, reminded me to ask the
> list if anyone has considered a "juju" charm?
> See: https://jujucharms.com
>
> It would be great if you could: # juju dspace
> And then all the linux stuff is done automatically, all that would remain
> is customisation via the new planned admin gui.
>
> Cheers
>
> hg
>
> *Hilton Gibson*
> Ubuntu Linux Systems Administrator
> Stellenbosch University Library
> http://staff.lib.sun.ac.za/~hgibson/docs/cv/cv.html
>
>
> On 24 June 2015 at 09:43, helix84  wrote:
>
>> Hi Monika,
>>
>> this will eventually boil down to a generic discussion of VMs vs.
>> containers which you can look up anywhere.
>>
>>
>> Let me just point out one important consideration - security.
>>
>> With Vagrant, you get an official way of creating a VM using scripts made
>> by DSpace commiters, whom you already trust if you use DSpace.
>>
>> With Docker, one of the advantages is being able to use the Docker Hub
>> Registry of images, which is just code from random people on the internet.
>> The question is do you want to use these, even in a development
>> environment? Of course, you have the option of creating the whole container
>> from scratch including the OS - you'll lose some of the benefits of Docker
>> this way, but you'll have more certainty that you're not running any
>> malicious code. Second security consideration is that of container
>> isolation in Linux, which is not particularly strong, but this matters only
>> if you run multiple containers per machine.
>>
>>
>> I also talked about this briefly with Hardy and he pointed out one
>> benefit of Vagrant - vagrant-share.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> ~~helix84
>>
>> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
>> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
>> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
>> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
>> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
>> ___
>> DSpace-tech mailing list
>> DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
>> List Etiquette:
>> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>>
>
>
> --
> Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
> ___
> DSpace-tech mailing list
> DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
> List Etiquette:
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
--
Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o___
DSpace-tech mailing list
DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[Tim Donohue]

A few notes on this Vagrant v. Docker discussion...

Vagrant is *specifically* built for development/testing environments. 
It's not recommended to use in Production.  Take a look at how it's 
advertised...it's "Development environments made easy": 
https://www.vagrantup.com/   Vagrant is also a level of abstraction 
above Docker. It's about providing a "repeatable" virtual machine 
environment, and you can do so using Puppet (which is what 
vagrant-dspace uses), Chef, Ansible, or even Docker itself! That's 
right, Vagrant actually has a "Docker Provisioner" which lets you spin 
up a VM, auto-install Docker and one (or more) Docker containers. 
http://docs.vagrantup.com/v2/provisioning/docker.html


Docker on the other hand is built more for Continuous Integration / 
Production environments.  You could use it for a development 
environment, but it's more ideal for CI.  That being said, you could use 
it *with* Vagrant...where you actually build a Docker container for your 
Production environment, but have the option of starting it via Vagrant 
for development / testing work.


Here's an excellent answer to this question from the guy who wrote 
Vagrant on why comparing Vagrant to Docker is a bit like apples vs. 
oranges: http://stackoverflow.com/a/21314566/3750035


My personal opinion here is that Docker is worth learning/using, IF you 
plan to use it in your Production environment.  However, if you have no 
plans to use Docker in Production, then you may find it is easier 
to"mimic" your existing production server by just using Vagrant.


Currently, we do NOT have a centrally managed DSpace Docker container 
(so anything out there is third-party built...so mileage may vary). But 
we do obviously provide vagrant-dspace (which is maintained by 
Committers, as several of us use it for development/testing of DSpace). 
https://github.com/DSpace/vagrant-dspace


- Tim

On 6/23/2015 4:57 PM, Monika C. Mevenkamp wrote:

Hi

my boss discovered a dspace docker

so which one should I do - docker or vagrant ?

They  sound awfully alike
  the host can connect to things : tomcat / ssh / ...
  files can be shared between host and vagrant/docker guest
  it appears to be easy to hand a ‘vagrant’ or a ‘docker’ to another 
developer


so what’s the deal ?
why one over the other ?

Monika

—
Monika Mevenkamp
Digital Repository Infrastructure Developer
Phone: 609-258-4161
333C 701 Carnegie, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544



--
Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o


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--
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OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o___
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[Peter Dietz]

My 2 cents is that we (Longsight) are rolling out our infrastructure with
Docker. We have java templates, tomcat, dspace templates. The DSpace
template builds on top of a tomcat template, which builds off of a java
template, which builds off of our base linux template. We're not done, but
its giving us predictability, and eventually fully automated deploys /
updates. Its complicated for the time being. Part of this terrifying
paradigm is that you design your application to survive instances dying.
i.e. Just assume that the database, solr, ES, postgres, nginx, tomcat, can
go down at any moment, and the application shouldn't lose data, and a
management tool should be able to quickly scale / restart things to bring
it all back up. This is probably more geared to an application that has
many instances of it running (one big unified DSpace application that holds
dozens of clients data). As opposed to an instance per client. It's
probably helpful to read up on building a 12 factor app
. Also, part of your instance setup is that
automation does everything, you should eventually be able to disable ssh
into your servers. Crazy huh?

The argument of Vagrant template being maintained by committers, well,
there's no reason that the DSpace community couldn't maintain docker
templates.


Peter Dietz
Longsight
www.longsight.com
pe...@longsight.com
p: 740-599-5005 x809

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Tim Donohue 
wrote:

>  A few notes on this Vagrant v. Docker discussion...
>
> Vagrant is *specifically* built for development/testing environments. It's
> not recommended to use in Production.  Take a look at how it's
> advertised...it's "Development environments made easy":
> https://www.vagrantup.com/   Vagrant is also a level of abstraction above
> Docker. It's about providing a "repeatable" virtual machine environment,
> and you can do so using Puppet (which is what vagrant-dspace uses), Chef,
> Ansible, or even Docker itself!  That's right, Vagrant actually has a
> "Docker Provisioner" which lets you spin up a VM, auto-install Docker and
> one (or more) Docker containers.
> http://docs.vagrantup.com/v2/provisioning/docker.html
>
> Docker on the other hand is built more for Continuous Integration /
> Production environments.  You could use it for a development environment,
> but it's more ideal for CI.  That being said, you could use it *with*
> Vagrant...where you actually build a Docker container for your Production
> environment, but have the option of starting it via Vagrant for development
> / testing work.
>
> Here's an excellent answer to this question from the guy who wrote Vagrant
> on why comparing Vagrant to Docker is a bit like apples vs. oranges:
> http://stackoverflow.com/a/21314566/3750035
>
> My personal opinion here is that Docker is worth learning/using, IF you
> plan to use it in your Production environment.  However, if you have no
> plans to use Docker in Production, then you may find it is easier to"mimic"
> your existing production server by just using Vagrant.
>
> Currently, we do NOT have a centrally managed DSpace Docker container (so
> anything out there is third-party built...so mileage may vary). But we do
> obviously provide vagrant-dspace (which is maintained by Committers, as
> several of us use it for development/testing of DSpace).
> https://github.com/DSpace/vagrant-dspace
>
> - Tim
>
>
> On 6/23/2015 4:57 PM, Monika C. Mevenkamp wrote:
>
> Hi
>
>  my boss discovered a dspace docker
>
>  so which one should I do - docker or vagrant ?
>
>  They  sound awfully alike
>   the host can connect to things : tomcat / ssh / ...
>   files can be shared between host and   vagrant/docker guest
>   it appears to be easy to hand a ‘vagrant’ or a ‘docker’ to another
> developer
>
>  so what’s the deal ?
> why one over the other ?
>
>  Monika
>
>  —
> Monika Mevenkamp
> Digital Repository Infrastructure Developer
> Phone: 609-258-4161
> 333C 701 Carnegie, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544
>
>
>
> --
> Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download 
> nowhttp://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
>
>
>
> ___
> DSpace-tech mailing 
> listDSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
> List Etiquette: 
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>
>
>
>
> --
> Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
> f

Re: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[Pottinger, Hardy J.]

Hi, I fielded this question a while ago on my blog:

http://lso.umsystem.edu/~pottingerhj/article/38/why-vagrant-instead-of-docker

In the mean time, I've since seen a Vagrant-based tool for Wordpress 
development, that uses Docker under the hood. It's pretty cool, and worth 
checking out:

http://www.sitepoint.com/wocker-easy-dockerized-wordpress/

What makes this environment really cool is that, you get the convenience of 
easily setting up a dev environment, and when it's done, you get a really nice 
tool for quickly spinning up new instances of Wordpress, inside that 
environment. And these same tools can become deployment tools.

OK, but, setting down the toys :-) I think Tim Donohue's distinction is a good 
one: Vagrant is a dev environment tool, and has many very nice features built 
up to support that use case. Docker is a deployment tool (and a pretty young 
one, still). Containerization is a big deal in the ops world. It's very likely 
that the "powers that be" at your institution have some opinions on the 
subject, and you'll need to enlist their support before you get too much 
farther with experimenting with a deployment tool like Docker.


From: Monika C. Mevenkamp [moni...@princeton.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 4:57 PM
To: Lista técnica do DSpace
Subject: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

Hi

my boss discovered a dspace docker

so which one should I do - docker or vagrant ?

They  sound awfully alike
  the host can connect to things : tomcat / ssh / ...
  files can be shared between host and   vagrant/docker guest
  it appears to be easy to hand a ‘vagrant’ or a ‘docker’ to another developer

so what’s the deal ?
why one over the other ?

Monika

—
Monika Mevenkamp
Digital Repository Infrastructure Developer
Phone: 609-258-4161
333C 701 Carnegie, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544

--
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Vagrant or Docker

[Monika C. Mevenkamp]

A belated thank you for all the docker and vagrant answers
Very helpful - Very interesting

Monika


—
Monika Mevenkamp
Digital Repository Infrastructure Developer
Phone: 609-258-4161
333C 701 Carnegie, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544


--
Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud.
GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that
you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business.
Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today.
https://www.gigenetcloud.com/___
DSpace-tech mailing list
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