Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-14 Thread Seun Ojedeji
Thanks!


On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:45 AM, helix84  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Seun Ojedeji 
> wrote:
> > Just to report back that i finally got my LDAP to work with Dspace. Found
> > out dspace actually does accept username format (not just email format).
>
> Yes, you can put anything into id_field, I thought you knew that when
> you had it changed to the mail field.
> The slight drawback of not having an actual email address there is
> that you won't be able to send them email directly from DSpace
> (subscriptions). But that's a current limtation of DSpace.
>
> > Can you direct me to where i can find dspace themes/templates?
>
> For now, this is all we have:
>
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Repository+of+XMLUI+themes
>
> You probably already know about the other themes distributed with
> DSpace in the "themes" directory.
>
>
> Regards,
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>



-- 


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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-14 Thread helix84
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Seun Ojedeji  wrote:
> Just to report back that i finally got my LDAP to work with Dspace. Found
> out dspace actually does accept username format (not just email format).

Yes, you can put anything into id_field, I thought you knew that when
you had it changed to the mail field.
The slight drawback of not having an actual email address there is
that you won't be able to send them email directly from DSpace
(subscriptions). But that's a current limtation of DSpace.

> Can you direct me to where i can find dspace themes/templates?

For now, this is all we have:

https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Repository+of+XMLUI+themes

You probably already know about the other themes distributed with
DSpace in the "themes" directory.


Regards,
~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette

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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-14 Thread Seun Ojedeji
Hello,

Just to report back that i finally got my LDAP to work with Dspace. Found
out dspace actually does accept username format (not just email format).

Can you direct me to where i can find dspace themes/templates?

Thanks for the help.

Regards


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:26 AM, helix84  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Seun Ojedeji 
> wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, helix84  wrote:
> >>
> >> Well that indicates that there's no such record in LDAP. Are you sure
> >> your mail attribute is indexed so you can search on it?
> >>
> > Kindly guide me on how to verify/make my mail attribute indexed?
>
> That is an issue on the LDAP side. Here are some places you could look
> for OpenLDAP:
> http://www.zytrax.com/books/ldap/apa/indeces.html
> http://www.openldap.org/faq/data/cache/136.html
>
> >> > No such object (32)
> >>
> >> This baffles me, I'm not sure whether this refers to the record or
> >> somethine else. Try Googling for this (in quotes).
> >>
>
> Your response wasn't really related to my recommendation.
>
> > running  ldapsearch -x -h  mydomain.com -b "dc=myorg,dc=edu"
> > "(objectClass=*)"  gives me a list of my ldap users, with the following
> at
> > the end:
> > # search result
> > search: 2
> > result: 4 Size limit exceeded
>
> That's understandable, this basically exports the whole contents of
> your LDAP directory in the LDIFF text format, which is large. Try
> restricting output to mail attributes if you want (or any other
> attribute), or narrow down the search parameters, e.g. to one
> organization unit.
>
> >> Try posting here your ldap configuration from those systems.
> >>
> > Here is that of openfire:
> >
> > LDAP Settings
> > Host: mydomain.com
> > Port: 389
> > Base DN: dc="myorg",dc="edu"
> > Administrator DN: cn="admin",dc="myorg",dc="edu"
>
> That doesn't really tell us anything we don't know. Especially not
> what attribute is used to construct full DN and what search filter is
> used.
>
>
> Regards,
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>



-- 


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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-13 Thread Seun Ojedeji
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:26 AM, helix84  wrote:

>
> >> > No such object (32)
> >>
> >> This baffles me, I'm not sure whether this refers to the record or
> >> somethine else. Try Googling for this (in quotes).
> >>
>
> Your response wasn't really related to my recommendation.
>
>
I did google and the responses i get are related to people wanting to add
users and they get such an error, however i saw one that mentioned it means
i that my ldap contains no data which ofcourse is it true as like i said i
have entries on it and it is currently used by other platforms.
http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-software/200409/msg00142.html

That doesn't really tell us anything we don't know. Especially not
> what attribute is used to construct full DN and what search filter is
> used.
>
> Okay that was what worked on my openfire however here is the one for
moodle:
In addition to the fields above moodle has:

Contexts: ou=people,dc=myorg,dc=edu
Search subcontexts: Yes

Thanks again for your help
@Hiltson here is the url: http://41.206.31.2:8080/xmlui/

Regards

>
> Regards,
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>



-- 


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**alt email: seun.ojed...@fuoye.edu.ng*
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-13 Thread helix84
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Seun Ojedeji  wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, helix84  wrote:
>>
>> Well that indicates that there's no such record in LDAP. Are you sure
>> your mail attribute is indexed so you can search on it?
>>
> Kindly guide me on how to verify/make my mail attribute indexed?

That is an issue on the LDAP side. Here are some places you could look
for OpenLDAP:
http://www.zytrax.com/books/ldap/apa/indeces.html
http://www.openldap.org/faq/data/cache/136.html

>> > No such object (32)
>>
>> This baffles me, I'm not sure whether this refers to the record or
>> somethine else. Try Googling for this (in quotes).
>>

Your response wasn't really related to my recommendation.

> running  ldapsearch -x -h  mydomain.com -b "dc=myorg,dc=edu"
> "(objectClass=*)"  gives me a list of my ldap users, with the following at
> the end:
> # search result
> search: 2
> result: 4 Size limit exceeded

That's understandable, this basically exports the whole contents of
your LDAP directory in the LDIFF text format, which is large. Try
restricting output to mail attributes if you want (or any other
attribute), or narrow down the search parameters, e.g. to one
organization unit.

>> Try posting here your ldap configuration from those systems.
>>
> Here is that of openfire:
>
> LDAP Settings
> Host: mydomain.com
> Port: 389
> Base DN: dc="myorg",dc="edu"
> Administrator DN: cn="admin",dc="myorg",dc="edu"

That doesn't really tell us anything we don't know. Especially not
what attribute is used to construct full DN and what search filter is
used.


Regards,
~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette

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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-13 Thread Hilton Gibson
Please send us the web link to your repository.
I assume it is available on the internet.


On 13 November 2012 11:18, Seun Ojedeji  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Thanks for all the help,
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, helix84  wrote:
>
>> Well that indicates that there's no such record in LDAP. Are you sure
>> your mail attribute is indexed so you can search on it?
>>
>> Kindly guide me on how to verify/make my mail attribute indexed?
>
>
>> > No such object (32)
>>
>> This baffles me, I'm not sure whether this refers to the record or
>> somethine else. Try Googling for this (in quotes).
>>
>> running  ldapsearch -x -h  mydomain.com -b "dc=myorg,dc=edu"
> "(objectClass=*)"  gives me a list of my ldap users, with the following
> at the end:
> # search result
> search: 2
> result: 4 Size limit exceeded
>
>
>> Try posting here your ldap configuration from those systems.
>>
>> Here is that of openfire:
>
> LDAP Settings   Host:  mydomain.com
>   Port:  389   Base DN:  dc="myorg",dc="edu"   Administrator DN: 
> cn="admin",dc="myorg",dc="edu"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> administrator DN password   my password
>
> Regards,
>
> NB: Now i am no longer getting error messages however i still can't login
> with my LDAP users
>
>
>
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>
>
>
> --
> 
>
> *Seun Ojedeji,
> Federal University Oye-Ekiti
> web:  http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
> Mobile: +2348035233535
> **alt email: seun.ojed...@fuoye.edu.ng*
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware,
> SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial.
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> DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
>
>


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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-13 Thread Seun Ojedeji
Hello,

Thanks for all the help,
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, helix84  wrote:

> Well that indicates that there's no such record in LDAP. Are you sure
> your mail attribute is indexed so you can search on it?
>
> Kindly guide me on how to verify/make my mail attribute indexed?


> > No such object (32)
>
> This baffles me, I'm not sure whether this refers to the record or
> somethine else. Try Googling for this (in quotes).
>
> running  ldapsearch -x -h  mydomain.com -b "dc=myorg,dc=edu"
"(objectClass=*)"  gives me a list of my ldap users, with the following at
the end:
# search result
search: 2
result: 4 Size limit exceeded


> Try posting here your ldap configuration from those systems.
>
> Here is that of openfire:

LDAP Settings   Host:  mydomain.com
  Port:  389   Base DN:  dc="myorg",dc="edu"   Administrator DN:
cn="admin",dc="myorg",dc="edu"








administrator DN password   my password

Regards,

NB: Now i am no longer getting error messages however i still can't login
with my LDAP users


~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette



-- 


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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-12 Thread helix84
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Seun Ojedeji  wrote:
> # filter: (mail=akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)

Well that indicates that there's no such record in LDAP. Are you sure
your mail attribute is indexed so you can search on it?

> No such object (32)

This baffles me, I'm not sure whether this refers to the record or
somethine else. Try Googling for this (in quotes).

> What baffles me is that, the ldap is currently working with other platforms
> we have such as moodle, openfire etc. Any idea on what could be wrong?

Try posting here your ldap configuration from those systems.


Regards,
~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette

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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-12 Thread Seun Ojedeji
Hello,
On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 12:50 PM, helix84  wrote:

> 1) Use the ldapsearch tool to try to connect to LDAP from the DSpace
> machine. Start with this:
> ldapsearch -h your_ldap.com -D "cn=admin,dc=myorg,dc=edu" -W -L
> "(mail=akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)"
> and see if it finds the record for you. That's essentially what your
> configuration tells DSpace to use. If not, try tweaking the
> parameters.
>
> I tried this and here is what i got in return:

ldapsearch -h your_ldap.com -D "cn=admin,dc=myorg,dc=edu" -W -L "(mail=
akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)"
Enter LDAP Password:
version: 1
#
# LDAPv3
# base <> (default) with scope subtree
# filter: (mail=akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)
# requesting: ALL
#
# search result
No such object (32)

# numResponses: 1

What baffles me is that, the ldap is currently working with other platforms
we have such as moodle, openfire etc. Any idea on what could be wrong?

Thanks

   You will be able to use Wireshark without any advanced configuration

> because you're using the plain LDAP protocol. When you have it
> working, I strongly suggest you to use LDAP in the TLS encapuslation
> (or at least LDAPS, but that one is less secure).
>
> Thanks suggestion noted!


>
> Regards,
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>



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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-11 Thread Hilton Gibson
Updated wiki page:
http://wiki.lib.sun.ac.za/index.php/SUNScholar/User_Management#Examples

Cheers

hg


On 11 November 2012 15:33, helix84  wrote:

> Hi Hilton,
>
> out of curiosity I looked at that the chapter and the new ldap.conf file
> you're linking there to isn't explained at all. Where does it come from?
> What's its contents?
> Dňa 11.11.2012 14:27, "Hilton Gibson" 
> napísal(-a):
>
>> Perhaps this will help:
>> http://wiki.lib.sun.ac.za/index.php/SUNScholar/User_Management#Step_1._Check_local_LDAP_on_local_server
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 November 2012 13:50, helix84  wrote:
>>
>>> It seems allright, you're using id_field correctly (assuming all else
>>> is correct). You just didn't respond which authentication plugin you
>>> used. You should use LDAPHierarchicalAuthentication, not
>>> LDAPAuthentication, otherwise the initial bind would be ignored and an
>>> anonymous search tried, which would be a problem if the mail attribute
>>> is not searchable for anonymous users.
>>>
>>> If that's not the problem, here's what I'd try next:
>>>
>>> 1) Use the ldapsearch tool to try to connect to LDAP from the DSpace
>>> machine. Start with this:
>>> ldapsearch -h your_ldap.com -D "cn=admin,dc=myorg,dc=edu" -W -L
>>> "(mail=akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)"
>>> and see if it finds the record for you. That's essentially what your
>>> configuration tells DSpace to use. If not, try tweaking the
>>> parameters.
>>>
>>> 2) Use wireshark or tshark to watch the LDAP conversation (limit
>>> capture to the IP of your LDAP), this should definitely tell you what
>>> parameters it uses and give you a clue why it doesn't work.
>>>
>>> You will be able to use Wireshark without any advanced configuration
>>> because you're using the plain LDAP protocol. When you have it
>>> working, I strongly suggest you to use LDAP in the TLS encapuslation
>>> (or at least LDAPS, but that one is less secure).
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> ~~helix84
>>>
>>> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
>>> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov
>>> ___
>>> DSpace-tech mailing list
>>> DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Hilton Gibson*
>> Systems Administrator
>> JS Gericke Library
>> Room 1025D
>> Stellenbosch University
>> Private Bag X5036
>> Stellenbosch
>> 7599
>> South Africa
>>
>> Tel: +27 21 808 4100 | Cell: +27 84 646 4758
>> http://library.sun.ac.za
>> http://scholar.sun.ac.za
>>
>>


-- 
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JS Gericke Library
Room 1025D
Stellenbosch University
Private Bag X5036
Stellenbosch
7599
South Africa

Tel: +27 21 808 4100 | Cell: +27 84 646 4758
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-11 Thread helix84
Hi Hilton,

out of curiosity I looked at that the chapter and the new ldap.conf file
you're linking there to isn't explained at all. Where does it come from?
What's its contents?
Dňa 11.11.2012 14:27, "Hilton Gibson"  napísal(-a):

> Perhaps this will help:
> http://wiki.lib.sun.ac.za/index.php/SUNScholar/User_Management#Step_1._Check_local_LDAP_on_local_server
>
>
>
> On 11 November 2012 13:50, helix84  wrote:
>
>> It seems allright, you're using id_field correctly (assuming all else
>> is correct). You just didn't respond which authentication plugin you
>> used. You should use LDAPHierarchicalAuthentication, not
>> LDAPAuthentication, otherwise the initial bind would be ignored and an
>> anonymous search tried, which would be a problem if the mail attribute
>> is not searchable for anonymous users.
>>
>> If that's not the problem, here's what I'd try next:
>>
>> 1) Use the ldapsearch tool to try to connect to LDAP from the DSpace
>> machine. Start with this:
>> ldapsearch -h your_ldap.com -D "cn=admin,dc=myorg,dc=edu" -W -L
>> "(mail=akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)"
>> and see if it finds the record for you. That's essentially what your
>> configuration tells DSpace to use. If not, try tweaking the
>> parameters.
>>
>> 2) Use wireshark or tshark to watch the LDAP conversation (limit
>> capture to the IP of your LDAP), this should definitely tell you what
>> parameters it uses and give you a clue why it doesn't work.
>>
>> You will be able to use Wireshark without any advanced configuration
>> because you're using the plain LDAP protocol. When you have it
>> working, I strongly suggest you to use LDAP in the TLS encapuslation
>> (or at least LDAPS, but that one is less secure).
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> ~~helix84
>>
>> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
>> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>>
>>
>> --
>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov
>> ___
>> DSpace-tech mailing list
>> DSpace-tech@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspace-tech
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Hilton Gibson*
> Systems Administrator
> JS Gericke Library
> Room 1025D
> Stellenbosch University
> Private Bag X5036
> Stellenbosch
> 7599
> South Africa
>
> Tel: +27 21 808 4100 | Cell: +27 84 646 4758
> http://library.sun.ac.za
> http://scholar.sun.ac.za
>
>
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-11 Thread Hilton Gibson
Perhaps this will help:
http://wiki.lib.sun.ac.za/index.php/SUNScholar/User_Management#Step_1._Check_local_LDAP_on_local_server



On 11 November 2012 13:50, helix84  wrote:

> It seems allright, you're using id_field correctly (assuming all else
> is correct). You just didn't respond which authentication plugin you
> used. You should use LDAPHierarchicalAuthentication, not
> LDAPAuthentication, otherwise the initial bind would be ignored and an
> anonymous search tried, which would be a problem if the mail attribute
> is not searchable for anonymous users.
>
> If that's not the problem, here's what I'd try next:
>
> 1) Use the ldapsearch tool to try to connect to LDAP from the DSpace
> machine. Start with this:
> ldapsearch -h your_ldap.com -D "cn=admin,dc=myorg,dc=edu" -W -L
> "(mail=akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)"
> and see if it finds the record for you. That's essentially what your
> configuration tells DSpace to use. If not, try tweaking the
> parameters.
>
> 2) Use wireshark or tshark to watch the LDAP conversation (limit
> capture to the IP of your LDAP), this should definitely tell you what
> parameters it uses and give you a clue why it doesn't work.
>
> You will be able to use Wireshark without any advanced configuration
> because you're using the plain LDAP protocol. When you have it
> working, I strongly suggest you to use LDAP in the TLS encapuslation
> (or at least LDAPS, but that one is less secure).
>
>
> Regards,
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>
>
> --
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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-11 Thread helix84
It seems allright, you're using id_field correctly (assuming all else
is correct). You just didn't respond which authentication plugin you
used. You should use LDAPHierarchicalAuthentication, not
LDAPAuthentication, otherwise the initial bind would be ignored and an
anonymous search tried, which would be a problem if the mail attribute
is not searchable for anonymous users.

If that's not the problem, here's what I'd try next:

1) Use the ldapsearch tool to try to connect to LDAP from the DSpace
machine. Start with this:
ldapsearch -h your_ldap.com -D "cn=admin,dc=myorg,dc=edu" -W -L
"(mail=akin.ojed...@mydomain.com)"
and see if it finds the record for you. That's essentially what your
configuration tells DSpace to use. If not, try tweaking the
parameters.

2) Use wireshark or tshark to watch the LDAP conversation (limit
capture to the IP of your LDAP), this should definitely tell you what
parameters it uses and give you a clue why it doesn't work.

You will be able to use Wireshark without any advanced configuration
because you're using the plain LDAP protocol. When you have it
working, I strongly suggest you to use LDAP in the TLS encapuslation
(or at least LDAPS, but that one is less secure).


Regards,
~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette

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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-11 Thread Seun Ojedeji
Hello,
On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 5:55 PM, helix84  wrote:

> status=4 means that the username as you passed it to LDAP is
> incorrect. My best guess is that you didn't pass the full DN, only the
> username part.
>
> I think your observation is in line...what i observe is that dspace users
email as username and my ldap is setup in such a way that my uid field is a
username (firstname.lastname)

Below is the settings of my authentication-ldap.config i set the
id_field = mail  (i used this because my uid field does not contain the
email format)
provider_url = ldap://myorg.edu
object_context = dc=myorg,dc=edu
search_context = dc=myorg,dc=edu
email_field = mail
search.user = cn=admin,dc=myorg,dc=edu
search.password = mypassword

I there anything i probably missed from the above settings?

Thanks


> Regards,
> ~~helix84
>
> Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette
>



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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-10 Thread helix84
This is the link I meant:

https://github.com/DSpace/DSpace/blob/dspace-1_8_x/dspace-api/src/main/java/org/dspace/authenticate/AuthenticationMethod.java#L54

status=4 means that the username as you passed it to LDAP is
incorrect. My best guess is that you didn't pass the full DN, only the
username part.


Regards,
~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette

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Re: [Dspace-tech] Ldap not working with Dspace

2012-11-10 Thread helix84
Hi Seun,

well, the immediate reason is obviously that the login and password as
DSpace provided it to LDAP is really invalid.

https://github.com/DSpace/DSpace/blob/dspace-1_8_x/dspace-jspui/dspace-jspui-api/src/main/java/org/dspace/app/webui/servlet/PasswordServlet.java#L93

Nobody can't help you though without details of your configuration
from [dspace]config/modules/authentication-ldap.conf. And which module
did you use? LDAPAuthentication or LDAPHierarchicalAuthentication?


Regards,
~~helix84

Compulsory reading: DSpace Mailing List Etiquette
https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/Mailing+List+Etiquette

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