Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DSTAR newcomer FINISH

[J. Moen]

Nate,

Thanks for making my point -- the D-STAR part is the easy part, and if you go 
non-ICOM, it's nearly free.  The hard, and expensive work, is the traditional 
repeater part of it, which you have outlined very well.  

So the good news -- when someone has an existing analog repeater which they'd 
like to convert to D-STAR, they can do it easily and inexpensively.  Probably 
the biggest issue is adding in a reliable internet connection.  Even there, 
some people have repeaters with line of site from their abode, and with proper 
directional antennas, a wifi connection is not too difficult.

I got into HF in 1959, and I've never done a real repeater, but whenever I read 
posts from people, like you, who have put up one or many repeaters, I gain more 
and more respect for the knowledge and effort that's required.

   Jim - K6JM

  - Original Message - 
  From: Nate Duehr 
  To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DSTAR newcomer FINISH



  On 5/24/2010 11:19 AM, J. Moen wrote: 

Yes, the simplest part of setting up a new D-STAR compatible repeater is 
the D-STAR part.  The real work is the traditional stuff -- site, analog 
radios, duplexers, antennas etc.

  That would be ANY repeater, actually.  ;-) 

  Why do hams think the radio part of well-performing repeaters is the 
expensive part?  Always amazes me.

  If it's going to be used to offer service to a so-called "served agency" 
(even though we can't legally provide service to anyone, nor accept 
remuneration for same)... 

  - Site rent (or a sweetheart deal) for somewhere really worth putting a 
repeater at
  - Hardline & Connectors
  - Double-shielded jumpers
  - Commercial-grade antenna
  - Proper weatherproofing materials (no, $1/roll electrical tape doesn't cut 
it)
  - Commercial-grade filtering products (duplexer/pre-selector cans/etc.)
  - Commercial-grade power supply
  - A secure way to remotely power cycle it all (especially D-STAR repeaters)
  - Commercial-grade router that can be remotely managed (unless you enjoy pain)
  - Commercial-grade server with dual power supplies (unless you enjoy outages)
  - Commercial-grade Lightning protection/grounding for everything, including 
the Internet connection.

  Optional: 
  - Commercial-grade pre-amplifier (if you have appropriate test gear to see if 
you made a positive or negative difference adding it)
  - Commercial-grade final Amplifier (again, don't bother if you don't know 
what "balanced system" means and have added the pre-amp)

  And you can remove "commercial-grade" and fight with maintenance on it as 
much as you like (it's a hobby, after all), if you're not planning on signing 
up with a "served agency" to be primary for emergency traffic on it, and 
emergency traffic will only show up as a last-resort.

  Buying an Icom D-STAR repeater: Couple thousand bucks
  Buying all the appropriate stuff to put it up correctly: Another couple 
thousand bucks.
  Owning the right test gear to know you did it right: ANOTHER couple thousand 
bucks.
  Knowing you did it right: Priceless.

  :-)

  Unless you're individually quite wealthy, a properly done repeater is not 
"affordable" at all.  Consider a typical new high-quality HF rig, something a 
contester would be proud to use after reading the technical specifications... 
and look at the price tag a repeater done right costs at least that much.

  The list above is just the standard list we use to deploy ANALOG repeaters... 
typed up off the top of my head. Proper repeater installation hasn't really 
changed in 20 years, other than a modern crimp-on RF connector done with the 
right tools actually does yield more consistent results, faster... and they 
didn't back then...

  If you're going up to 1.2 GHz... even more expensive "additional gear" is 
required.  

  Nate WY0X
  p.s. I didn't install the RF side of W0CDS, and will make no claims for or 
against its performance.  I know the people who did, and they usually do things 
right... but in regards to W0CDS, I just maintain the Linux box for 'em.  

Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Affordable homebrew repeater (Was: DSTAR newcomer FINISH)

[Francis Miele]

Thanks John!

thanks for the information.

Fran, W1FJM

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 5:36 PM, John Hays  wrote:

>
>
> Hi Fran,
>
> G4ULF's software is not generally available yet, look for it over the next
> few months.
> He is a very high demand consultant/engineer for a major networking
> equipment company and regularly travels around the world, so he sometimes
> doesn't get to email as often as we would like.
> He is working, in concert with some other folks, to get his code "out the
> door", in a self installable, documented, form.
> Its real and working on a small number of systems now, but takes a lot of
> "hand holding" to bring up at the current time.  Once packaged with
> documentation and installation scripts more people will have access.
> David was at Dayton and had a repeater/gateway running on site, I had the
> pleasure of talking with him at length about his project.
>
>
> On May 24, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Francis Miele wrote:
>
> I am trying to reach G4ULF as we have two repeaters we want to put. I have
> emailed him twice with no response. Do you know how to get a hold of him?
>
> Fran, W1FJM
>
>
>   John D. Hays
> Amateur Radio Station K7VE 
> PO Box 1223
> Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
>  VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
> Phone: 206-801-0820
> 801-790-0950
> Email: j...@hays.org
>
>  
>

Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Affordable homebrew repeater (Was: DSTAR newcomer FINISH)

[John Hays]

Hi Fran,

G4ULF's software is not generally available yet, look for it over the  
next few months.
He is a very high demand consultant/engineer for a major networking  
equipment company and regularly travels around the world, so he  
sometimes doesn't get to email as often as we would like.
He is working, in concert with some other folks, to get his code "out  
the door", in a self installable, documented, form.
Its real and working on a small number of systems now, but takes a lot  
of "hand holding" to bring up at the current time.  Once packaged with  
documentation and installation scripts more people will have access.
David was at Dayton and had a repeater/gateway running on site, I had  
the pleasure of talking with him at length about his project.



On May 24, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Francis Miele wrote:

I am trying to reach G4ULF as we have two repeaters we want to put.  
I have emailed him twice with no response. Do you know how to get a  
hold of him?


Fran, W1FJM





John D. Hays
Amateur Radio Station K7VE
PO Box 1223
Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Phone: 206-801-0820
801-790-0950
Email: j...@hays.org

Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Affordable homebrew repeater (Was: DSTAR newcomer FINISH)

[Francis Miele]

I am trying to reach G4ULF as we have two repeaters we want to put. I have
emailed him twice with no response. Do you know how to get a hold of him?

Fran, W1FJM

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:45 PM, John Hays  wrote:

>
>
>
> On May 24, 2010, at 6:12 AM, john_ke5c wrote:
>
> > The HotSpot approach means you don't have to wait for a big deal repeater
> to come online to enjoy D-STAR. I use a 91AD HT around the house, and an
> ID-800H I bought used for mobile work. It doesn't have to cost a lot of
> money to enjoy D-STAR.
>
> I am involved with four or five (depending on how you define involved)
> DStar gateways, and the next major development will be AFFORDABLE homebrew
> repeater/gateways. We are just starting to look into this (hotspot in the
> mail) for our next installation. Plus it feels more like hamming - get a
> pair of old commercial FM radios, retune some used duplexers, etc., and hook
> it all up. 73--John
> __._,_.__
>
>
> I have done the hotspot repeater, experimenting with Yaesu radios, NQMHS,
> PA3YBR firmware, and hotspot software - it came right up.  I am working to
> get 440 repeater to convert and anxiously awaiting G4ULF's release of his G2
> repeater software.  The cost is pretty minimal if you already have the
> repeater.
>
> (BTW, I know of a well built 2 meter repeater in the Seattle area, without
> a coordinated pair, that used to be a 9600 baud packet repeater and should
> be a pretty easy D-STAR repeater conversion.  If anyone is interested,
> contact me off list. Its not mine but I know the owners.)
>
>  John D. Hays
> Amateur Radio Station K7VE 
> PO Box 1223
> Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
>  VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
> Phone: 206-801-0820
> 801-790-0950
>  
>

Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DSTAR newcomer FINISH

[Nate Duehr]

On 5/24/2010 11:19 AM, J. Moen wrote:
Yes, the simplest part of setting up a new D-STAR compatible repeater 
is the D-STAR part.  The real work is the traditional stuff -- site, 
analog radios, duplexers, antennas etc.


That would be ANY repeater, actually.  ;-)

Why do hams think the radio part of well-performing repeaters is the 
expensive part?  Always amazes me.


If it's going to be used to offer service to a so-called "served agency" 
(even though we can't legally provide service to anyone, nor accept 
remuneration for same)...


- Site rent (or a sweetheart deal) for somewhere really worth putting a 
repeater at

- Hardline & Connectors
- Double-shielded jumpers
- Commercial-grade antenna
- Proper weatherproofing materials (no, $1/roll electrical tape doesn't 
cut it)

- Commercial-grade filtering products (duplexer/pre-selector cans/etc.)
- Commercial-grade power supply
- A secure way to remotely power cycle it all (especially D-STAR repeaters)
- Commercial-grade router that can be remotely managed (unless you enjoy 
pain)
- Commercial-grade server with dual power supplies (unless you enjoy 
outages)
- Commercial-grade Lightning protection/grounding for everything, 
including the Internet connection.


Optional:
- Commercial-grade pre-amplifier (if you have appropriate test gear to 
see if you made a positive or negative difference adding it)
- Commercial-grade final Amplifier (again, don't bother if you don't 
know what "balanced system" means and have added the pre-amp)


And you can remove "commercial-grade" and fight with maintenance on it 
as much as you like (it's a hobby, after all), if you're not planning on 
signing up with a "served agency" to be primary for emergency traffic on 
it, and emergency traffic will only show up as a last-resort.


Buying an Icom D-STAR repeater: Couple thousand bucks
Buying all the appropriate stuff to put it up correctly: Another couple 
thousand bucks.
Owning the right test gear to know you did it right: ANOTHER couple 
thousand bucks.

Knowing you did it right: Priceless.

:-)

Unless you're individually quite wealthy, a properly done repeater is 
not "affordable" at all.  Consider a typical new high-quality HF rig, 
something a contester would be proud to use after reading the technical 
specifications... and look at the price tag a repeater done right 
costs at least that much.


The list above is just the standard list we use to deploy ANALOG 
repeaters... typed up off the top of my head. Proper repeater 
installation hasn't really changed in 20 years, other than a modern 
crimp-on RF connector done with the right tools actually does yield more 
consistent results, faster... and they didn't back then...


If you're going up to 1.2 GHz... even more expensive "additional gear" 
is required.


Nate WY0X
p.s. I didn't install the RF side of W0CDS, and will make no claims for 
or against its performance.  I know the people who did, and they usually 
do things right... but in regards to W0CDS, I just maintain the Linux 
box for 'em.

[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Affordable homebrew repeater (Was: DSTAR newcomer FINISH)

[John Hays]

On May 24, 2010, at 6:12 AM, john_ke5c wrote:

> The HotSpot approach means you don't have to wait for a big deal  
repeater to come online to enjoy D-STAR. I use a 91AD HT around the  
house, and an ID-800H I bought used for mobile work. It doesn't have  
to cost a lot of money to enjoy D-STAR.


I am involved with four or five (depending on how you define  
involved) DStar gateways, and the next major development will be  
AFFORDABLE homebrew repeater/gateways. We are just starting to look  
into this (hotspot in the mail) for our next installation. Plus it  
feels more like hamming - get a pair of old commercial FM radios,  
retune some used duplexers, etc., and hook it all up. 73--John


__._,_.__




I have done the hotspot repeater, experimenting with Yaesu radios,  
NQMHS, PA3YBR firmware, and hotspot software - it came right up.  I am  
working to get 440 repeater to convert and anxiously awaiting G4ULF's  
release of his G2 repeater software.  The cost is pretty minimal if  
you already have the repeater.


(BTW, I know of a well built 2 meter repeater in the Seattle area,  
without a coordinated pair, that used to be a 9600 baud packet  
repeater and should be a pretty easy D-STAR repeater conversion.  If  
anyone is interested, contact me off list. Its not mine but I know the  
owners.)


John D. Hays
Amateur Radio Station K7VE
PO Box 1223
Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Phone: 206-801-0820
801-790-0950

Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DSTAR newcomer FINISH

[J. Moen]

Yes, the simplest part of setting up a new D-STAR compatible repeater is the 
D-STAR part.  The real work is the traditional stuff -- site, analog radios, 
duplexers, antennas etc.

Don't forget to get a club call -- things get confusing when a D-STAR repeater 
has the same call as an individual.

   Jim - K6JM

  - Original Message - 
  From: john_ke5c 
  To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:12 AM
  Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DSTAR newcomer FINISH  
  > The HotSpot approach means you don't have to wait for a big deal repeater 
to come online to enjoy D-STAR. I use a 91AD HT around the house, and an 
ID-800H I bought used for mobile work. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money 
to enjoy D-STAR.

  I am involved with four or five (depending on how you define involved) DStar 
gateways, and the next major development will be AFFORDABLE homebrew 
repeater/gateways. We are just starting to look into this (hotspot in the mail) 
for our next installation. Plus it feels more like hamming - get a pair of old 
commercial FM radios, retune some used duplexers, etc., and hook it all up. 
73--John

[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Dstar refe C1

[billyjack2682006]

Hi this is N9HSM I want to think the person who put the link to Radio Ref to 
Dstar. I don't have one yet. I here them talk about Ref C1 is there a web site 
to learn more about other ref others like C1 I am planning to get a Dstar radio 
I like the IC-2820H because it is eay to program but out of my price. So I 
Guess I have to get the Icom 880 .. Thanks again for the Dstar threw Radio ref. 
sorry for my spelling..i AM On a fix income and take care of my 96yrs old 
mother , thanks alot I learning more. tom N9HSM

[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DSTAR newcomer FINISH

[john_ke5c]

> The HotSpot approach means you don't have to wait for a big deal repeater to 
> come online to enjoy D-STAR. I use a 91AD HT around the house, and an ID-800H 
> I bought used for mobile work.  It doesn't have to cost a lot of money to 
> enjoy D-STAR.

I am involved with four or five (depending on how you define involved) DStar 
gateways, and the next major development will be AFFORDABLE homebrew 
repeater/gateways.  We are just starting to look into this (hotspot in the 
mail) for our next installation.  Plus it feels more like hamming - get a pair 
of old commercial FM radios, retune some used duplexers, etc., and hook it all 
up.  73--John