Re: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful
Furthermore, if it's the same YL I'm thinking of, she's the first Indian
national to participate in a DXpedition outside of India, and her
primary experience before this was PSK-31. I think I posted an article
on the DX-News reflector within the last month or two.
As many have said in the past, if you think you can do a better job
yourself, why aren't you there instead?
73 - Jim AD1C
On 2/10/2008 6:35 AM, Duane, WV2B wrote:
Last evening I spent a good amount of time listening to the TI9KK
operation on 14.205. Frankly I was amazed that the YL op could get
anything out of the undisciplined, continuous-calling mess.
But I was absolutely horrified when after the YL signed off stations
started commenting that they hope they have better operators, and
harshly criticizing the operator. Do these ill-mannered people {without
the nerve to identify} realize that even though the op signed off she
was likely still listening on the frequency?
Perhaps the operator was not the most experienced, but did the pileup
operators do anything to make it the least bit easier on her? No. What
about the station in the Carri bean who repeated the first 2 letters of
his call phonetically for 20 seconds or more at a time? Or all the
others who continued calling when the call identified obviously was
nothing similar to theirs? Multiply that by 10 and that was what the yL
had to work through.
What about the General Class operators heard? Come on guys. If you want
to be a DXer spend $25 for the manual, memorize the answers and upgrade.
Why do you think you should be adding to your DXCC total by operating on
frequencies not allowed by your license? Too bad ARRL doesn't have the
nerve to disqualify these guys.
It amazes me that DXers appear to be reasonable people in their lives
otherwise. Most are professionals, but they can't figure out that
transmitting while the DX station is transmitting, when the call
identified is not them, or continuously for long periods of time is just
stupid.
And, even on a simplex operation the policeman are there. The YL asked
folks to stand by for 5 minutes. of course, some kept calling. So
certain stations felt obliged to lecture the pileup for the whole 5
minutes about how they were supposed to be standing by, somehow missing
the fact that they were also ignoring the direction and not standing by.
What good were they doing? And of course, unidentified.
So, when criticism of the DX is considered, consider turning the DX
mirror the other way as well. If we take a good look we might be
surprised what we see if we take an honest look.
That YL went there to help others by giving them a contact. And they
rudely insulted her, and harshly criticized her. That was totally
uncalled for, If you want to criticize, criticize the operators who
prevented her from doing a good job.
If a guest came to your house and brought you a gift, would you
criticize them because you didn't think they did a good job wrapping it,
or maybe wasn't what you were expecting or hoping for? No that would be
rude. So why do it to Dxpeditioners. They went there to give you a
gift, the actions of the recipients prevented many from receiving the
gift, and they blamed the giver.
Of course, surely these were all inexperienced DXers just getting
started, right? Given a chance, hopefully they will learn better and not
keep repeating the same mistakes, right? And, when they take the time
away from work and their families, and travel on a boat for 40 hours,
and live on the boat, and take a rowboat into the jungle and operate I
am sure they will show us just how it is done, won't they?
Hopefully the YL did not hear those comments and won't decide to lump
the whole thing. She has good reason to.
73, Duane, WV2B
--
Jim Reisert AD1C/Ø, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.ad1c.us
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Re: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful
Exactly - she's out there doing it and that goes a long way in my book.
Mark N1UK G3ZZM
Jim wrote:
Furthermore, if it's the same YL I'm thinking of, she's the first Indian
national to participate in a DXpedition outside of India, and her primary
experience before this was PSK-31. I think I posted an article on the
DX-News reflector within the last month or two.
As many have said in the past, if you think you can do a better job
yourself, why aren't you there instead?
73 - Jim AD1C
On 2/10/2008 6:35 AM, Duane, WV2B wrote:
Last evening I spent a good amount of time listening to the TI9KK
operation on 14.205. Frankly I was amazed that the YL op could get
anything out of the undisciplined, continuous-calling mess.
But I was absolutely horrified when after the YL signed off stations
started commenting that they hope they have better operators, and harshly
criticizing the operator. Do these ill-mannered people {without the nerve
to identify} realize that even though the op signed off she was likely
still listening on the frequency?
Perhaps the operator was not the most experienced, but did the pileup
operators do anything to make it the least bit easier on her? No. What
about the station in the Carri bean who repeated the first 2 letters of
his call phonetically for 20 seconds or more at a time? Or all the others
who continued calling when the call identified obviously was nothing
similar to theirs? Multiply that by 10 and that was what the yL had to
work through.
What about the General Class operators heard? Come on guys. If you want
to be a DXer spend $25 for the manual, memorize the answers and upgrade.
Why do you think you should be adding to your DXCC total by operating on
frequencies not allowed by your license? Too bad ARRL doesn't have the
nerve to disqualify these guys.
It amazes me that DXers appear to be reasonable people in their lives
otherwise. Most are professionals, but they can't figure out that
transmitting while the DX station is transmitting, when the call
identified is not them, or continuously for long periods of time is just
stupid.
And, even on a simplex operation the policeman are there. The YL asked
folks to stand by for 5 minutes. of course, some kept calling. So certain
stations felt obliged to lecture the pileup for the whole 5 minutes about
how they were supposed to be standing by, somehow missing the fact that
they were also ignoring the direction and not standing by. What good were
they doing? And of course, unidentified.
So, when criticism of the DX is considered, consider turning the DX
mirror the other way as well. If we take a good look we might be
surprised what we see if we take an honest look.
That YL went there to help others by giving them a contact. And they
rudely insulted her, and harshly criticized her. That was totally
uncalled for, If you want to criticize, criticize the operators who
prevented her from doing a good job.
If a guest came to your house and brought you a gift, would you criticize
them because you didn't think they did a good job wrapping it, or maybe
wasn't what you were expecting or hoping for? No that would be rude. So
why do it to Dxpeditioners. They went there to give you a gift, the
actions of the recipients prevented many from receiving the gift, and
they blamed the giver.
Of course, surely these were all inexperienced DXers just getting
started, right? Given a chance, hopefully they will learn better and not
keep repeating the same mistakes, right? And, when they take the time
away from work and their families, and travel on a boat for 40 hours, and
live on the boat, and take a rowboat into the jungle and operate I am
sure they will show us just how it is done, won't they?
Hopefully the YL did not hear those comments and won't decide to lump the
whole thing. She has good reason to.
73, Duane, WV2B
--
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Re: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful
Exactly - she's out there doing it and that goes a long way in my book. I thought she was doing a *good job*. She wasn't making 100 QSO/hr rate but when a whole bunch of people decide W7 please? means N4 and NN3 and KP4 and NF5 should keep calling, and you have to make every single QSO with a pileup that never, ever ever changes intensity, you're not going to have a stellar rate. You could go up and spread 'em out but then you're going to QRM half the band with a pileup that never, ever changes intensity. The continuous caller problem is upsetting. I heard some guys in there on 14205 that should have known better, guys I respect otherwise. We should all tie our continuous calling buddies down and beat it out of 'em ;-) *smack* THOSE LETTERS AREN'T IN YOUR CALLSIGN *smack* Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful - By the numbers? Eeegh
that's quite common when someone loose the control of the pile-up. He or she try nothing and everything to go ahead... and sometime he/she just pick up the bigest signal even it doesn't fit with the rule that he/she trying to run HAMRADIO is a big game don't forget this. Even if at the other side the operator is not at the top... he or she's there and you are sitted on your chair in a confortable shack... Let to the beginner a chance to improve their skill. Flo F5CWU Dan Zimmerman N3OX a écrit : I have to temper my outrage at the pileups on TI9KK a little bit after listening to the operation on 17m SSB today. I came in when she was listening for 2's. She worked them for 20 minutes or so and then just started taking any callers for a while. After about a half hour of that she called for EU only EU only, I'm sure much to the relief of some EUs. There were about 5 million EU callers on her listening frequency as I heard it (I'm a little closer to EU than TI9 is but I digress) After working three to five EU stations she then called only American stations #1 please She's worked about 6 #1 stations and is now back to #2. Good day to be a #2 ;-)... though she just took a 4... and another one. Then a 3, now another 4. Aaaand an 8. And another 4. And a 9. Clearly back to taking everyone. I'm not whining because I'm a 3, don't worry... - - - - - - - - Now I have heard this on plenty of other DX operations as well, I'm not picking on TI9KK... but it's really going to make the pileup super stupid to go back and forth between working numbers and not. I don't think anyone should work by the numbers, but if you have to you have to go through all of them at least once before you go back to taking anyone. I can just see the steam coming out of the EU's ears right now... So, to be fair, the mess is coming from both sides Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful
Name and shame? Who did you hear? Dave G0OIL -Original Message- From: Dan Zimmerman N3OX [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 February 2008 17:25 To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful Exactly - she's out there doing it and that goes a long way in my book. I thought she was doing a *good job*. She wasn't making 100 QSO/hr rate but when a whole bunch of people decide W7 please? means N4 and NN3 and KP4 and NF5 should keep calling, and you have to make every single QSO with a pileup that never, ever ever changes intensity, you're not going to have a stellar rate. You could go up and spread 'em out but then you're going to QRM half the band with a pileup that never, ever changes intensity. The continuous caller problem is upsetting. I heard some guys in there on 14205 that should have known better, guys I respect otherwise. We should all tie our continuous calling buddies down and beat it out of 'em ;-) *smack* THOSE LETTERS AREN'T IN YOUR CALLSIGN *smack* Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful
What we're seeing is another side-effect of the lower of license requirements. Ron, don't even go there. I don't want to name-and-shame as G0OIL says, but of the two worst ones I was hearing yesterday one was licensed in '86 and the other I know has been a ham for quite a long time (not sure exactly how long) as well and is someone I respect for his work in ham radio, and have only ever heard him being a very good operator otherwise. I don't doubt that there are a good number of brash, lawless new ops out there. I've heard some of them too, but if the older more experienced ops set a good example and are the successful ones in doing so, we'll be better off. I hear a lot of stuff about new ops coming from the CB bands and so forth... but honestly, if you're a new operator and come from the CB hobby where transmitting is the whole point, you actually *have an excuse* to be a bad, continuous caller until you learn better by listening to the way things are supposed to go. Guys who have 22 years in the hobby do NOT have an excuse. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful
to the descriptions I've just mentioned. So can I, for that matter. I am not saying that the group I'm talking about is exclusively the only ones. And I'm not saying that all new or newer or newly upgraded ops are fall into this category of lids. Actually, most don't. But enough do. The problem, as we all know, is that propagation is such that it only takes 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 lids to disrupt operations. Because some disruptors generator more, and generate well-meaning frequency cops to shoo them off, and on and on. So it doesn't take many to do major disruption. But -- I maintain that there are more doing the disrupting than ever before. And we've all seen examples of it. Not just on the air -- look over some of the cluster comments, for one. I'm running into this same type of attitude on some of the other reflectors and similar message boards out on the Internet. I've actually been told that I have no business telling these guys anything -- they just steamroll ahead and keep repeating the same attitudes, over and over. (Don't believe me? Just use the phrase winlink in a message thread on a particular popular set of forums, and see what happens -- it will be like throwing raw meat into a cage of hungry velociraptors. And we won't even go into the mindset of certain win at all costs/if it's not prohibited, it's allowed contesters -- and yes, I know that they're not all new ops either!) What scares me to some degree about this is that this small, vocal, and frankly obnoxious group, could be the future of amateur radio. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the Amateur Radio Service, both in the US and worldwide (and what I'm talking about here is not confined just to North America) knows that it has changed and evolved over the past not-quite-100 years. There certainly has been a major change from a primarily highly technical hobby (yes, I know, the ARS is a service, not a hobby, but we are involved with the service personally as a hobby) and service into a much less technical communications service. There are many factors involved in that, which is not germane to the point... suffice to say that it is happening. And a side effect of that change is that the testing becomes less technical (did you draw a schematic for your Extra? I didn't, but the test I took ~25 years ago would be a deal-breaker for many today), it becomes easier. As it becomes easier to take and pass, it becomes easier to learn. As it becomes easier to learn, there is less of a need for a mentor, an Elmer, to help absorb the knowledge. Problem is that a good Elmer passes along not just the information to pass the test, but provides an example of how to operate, how to act, on the air. So with less Elmering, there is less practical information on how others have done it before. Thus many of the new amateurs have failed to learn how it is done, and as such, fail to operate in what we experienced ops consider to be an acceptable manner. And since they're not used to mentoring, they not only fail to realize that they (and their fellows) are operating in a poor manner, but they take offense at suggestions that they are doing so, which means that the chaos continues. Thus, a gradual slide in the licensing requirements has a direct correlation in how many (not most, not all, but enough) new operators operate poorly on the bands. Which along with other poor operators from other walks and for other reasons contribute to general chaos on the bands in general and specifically to the DX pileups that we are referring to. In My Humble Opinion. Your Mileage May Vary. Void Where Prohibited By Law (Sorry Tennessee). 73, ron w3wn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Zimmerman N3OX Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:12 PM To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Ungrateful What we're seeing is another side-effect of the lower of license requirements. Ron, don't even go there. I don't want to name-and-shame as G0OIL says, but of the two worst ones I was hearing yesterday one was licensed in '86 and the other I know has been a ham for quite a long time (not sure exactly how long) as well and is someone I respect for his work in ham radio, and have only ever heard him being a very good operator otherwise. I don't doubt that there are a good number of brash, lawless new ops out there. I've heard some of them too, but if the older more experienced ops set a good example and are the successful ones in doing so, we'll be better off. I hear a lot of stuff about new ops coming from the CB bands and so forth... but honestly, if you're a new operator and come from the CB hobby where transmitting is the whole point, you actually *have an excuse* to be a bad, continuous caller until you learn better by listening to the way things are supposed to go. Guys who have 22 years in the hobby do NOT have an excuse. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http
