[e-gold-list] Argentina (ho-hum!)
Just defaulted on another $2.9 Billion debt to the IMF. It used to sound like such a fun place to visit... I hope more Argentines grab e-gold accounts ( fast!) for their sakes! JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Argentina
I am sure that things are very bad there right now, and it illustrates the
problems of fiat currency. For your information, we are located here in
Costa Rica, and my associate is a Tico, so he speaks perfect Spanish of
course.
Your problem is simillar to that experienced in S. Africa, where people
cannot send money out of the country except with government permission, of
course.
Yet, despite this, there is at least one egold MM who operates in S. Africa.
How do they do it?
Well, there is only one way, besides smuggling, that one can get money in
and out of a closed country like that. Here is how it would work. You have
customers in Argentina who want to buy egold, so you have to sell it in the
local, controlled currency. Also, I am sure that there would be some people
who would want to exchange egold for local currency for buying things,
although I am sure they would do so sparingly at this time.
Also, if you were such a MM, you would need to acquire customers outside
yoru own country, and you could use the gold generaated from those customers
when they do a redeem to fund the egold orders from Argentina. IN order to
make this work right, there would have to be a balance on both sides of the
equation, so to speak. However, since this is a national emergency, the
accounts would probably not balance, but it gives you a line of reasoning to
follow. Perhaps someone with more experience in this can refine this idea
for you.
I assume that bank wires, etc. cannot be gotten out of there either?
It is a real problem when the fiat currency collapses along with the economy
and banking system. The only way out of it is to learn from the experience
and diversify outside the system when that is finally permitted again.
Are people allowed to buy and sell gold and silver there? If so, another
approach to use as a start would be to start something like Norfed, which
issues a paper currency represented by gold in a vault. It is just like
egold, except it is real world rather than digital.
Anyway, these are just some ideas to start you thinking. What has to happen
is that people and business have to start using a sound currency regardless
of what the government says or does. If you can't buy and store gold or
silver, you could issue something like the HOURS currency issued in New
England in the US. I believe they have a website you could check out.
It sounds to me that the people are ripe for a change, and if you are the
first one there to do it, then you stand to make a lot of money. I hope at
least some of this has been of help.
John
Get the privacy and offshore services you need from
Destiny Worldwide! Visit our websites often for ---
the latest seminars and resources! --
http://www.offshorearnings.com--
http://www.destiny-worldwide.net -
--+--
-
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the
argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-- William Pitt, November 18, 1783
--
---
You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s)
via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common
viruses.
[e-gold-list] Argentina
At 5:23 PM -0500 1/9/02, Julian Dibbell wrote: Now on to Jim's objections. I'll skip the arguments about Keynes and crashes and so forth. (Like I've got time to fight a religious war, sheesh. (Though actually, I am curious to know how Argentina fits in on the goldbug side of the argument. Isn't a dollar-pegged currency as close as modern finance gets to a national gold standard? And isn't that what did the poor bastards in? (Oh cripes, now I've done it -- onward, Christian soldiers!))) It would appear Argentina simply failed because it is so corrupt. The absoltuely key book is _The Mystery of Capital_ by Hernando de Soto, which everyone should read this afternoon. Their currency (which was essentially the dollar), was great, well loved, and did a super job in every way. Of course, now that the country has gone too hell -- guess what! The politicians are going to devalue it, screwing everyone, so that the politicians can print more money. Funny that! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Argentina defaults, plans third currency.
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=Viewc=Articlecid=FT3A99Y9LVClive=truetagid=IXLYK5HZ8CC Sorry about the immense URL, it's also linked to Drudge at the moment. The new currency will be issued as negotiable bonds whatever that means... JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] Argentina, et al
Dear Vince, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4281-2001Dec20.html Your comment: Of course we don't know of any other country that has done that, was extremely funny, not to mention poignant. I agree with Jim Ray that the situation in Argentina suggests business opportunities for the enterprizing in Argentina, although the government there appears to be determined to act in a fashion that is certain to repress much in the way of initiative. Gold backed currencies are clearly better money. The article notes that much of the rioting occurs in the poorest neighborhoods. As any thoughtful person can see, the poorest are most adversely affected by government policies of fiat money, bad fiscal management, and inflation, even when the currency is tied to a strong dollar. I wonder what might be the effect of a bearer instrument, such as a gold-backed certificate, akin in some fashions to paper money, being available for circulation in places like Argentina. NORFED has issued paper backed by silver in competition with the Feral Reserve notes with which we are all so sadly familiar. People need good money to have a halfway decent standard of living. True, indeed. And the poorest are the first to feel the lack of good money. One of the difficulties of bearer instruments has always been counterfeiting and the multiple-spend problem. An anonymous bearer instrument, such as currency, has this problem, that a counterfeiter or duplicator may create as much bad money as he pleases. Perhaps instead of a bearer instrument tied to a digital currency, we should contemplate a mode of communication to the reliable online services and shopping cart interfaces of digital gold currencies. Very nearly every store in the world has some means of communicating with credit card companies to validate credit purchases. Why not a similar device for connecting to a web site to validate at-store purchases with e-gold? It might expand the user base, somewhat. Regards, Jim http://www.Cambist.net/ -- your e-gold spends like goldgrams http://www.GoldBarter.com/ -- your free market http://www.GoldBarterHoldings.com/ -- our corporate site --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] Argentina declares state of siege
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4281-2001Dec20.html While this has nothing to do with gold currencies, it is an interesting story with its roots in currency-management failure. I wonder if this is actually an opportunity in disguise for some enterprising Argentinian? People need good money to have a halfway decent standard of living. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] Argentina resorts to UNILETS
Despite the various headers quips, and despite the length of this piece (from Bob Hettinga's lists) I thought it might be fun to imagine selling e-gold in Argentina. As with India, I think the first guy to do it right in that country is going to get wealthy. My apologies for the length of this message, but *please* refrain from trying to quote the entire thing if you choose to reply. Note the story from 1985(!) reprinted below, where two remote Argentine provinces ended up printing up their own money, so the idea of a privately-issued currency isn't new in that country. Also, I have _NO_ idea why, but apparently this topic came up originally on an email list named MedPot-discuss! :^) JMR +++ Subject: [Fwd: [MedPot-discuss] TURMEL: Argentina resorts to UNILETS bond-currency] From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:02:14 -0400 Probably should be re-slanted, I bet. :-). Cheers, RAH Who, as Birch might recall, *still* thinks of such LETS schemes as labor theory of value happy horseshit. :-). --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:37:07 +1200 From: Blair Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Techno Junk and Grey Matter To: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Fwd: [MedPot-discuss] TURMEL: Argentina resorts to UNILETS bond-currency] fyi cheers, blair Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MedPot-discuss] TURMEL: Argentina resorts to UNILETS bond-currency To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] JCT: This article is from Bloomberg, a financial newspaper, so I expected it to be slanted. I unslanted it by moving paragraphs 12,14,15 up to the front to expose the smear for what it is. (My numbered comments later) Ottawa Citizen Wednesday Aug. 22 2001 NEW CURRENCY SPAWNS ANXIETY (1) by David Plumb Bloomberg News, with files from Eliana Raszewski and Charles Penty Picture Caption: Buenos Aires Gov. Carlos Ruckauf shows patacons, a new half-currency, half-bond and the planned savior of for Argentina's $153 billion debt. Economists say the bills undermine the peso's one- to-one exchange with the dollar. Argentina is bankrupt Mr. Ruckauf said. Argentines in Buenos Aires province fear patacons are worthless, David Plumb reports (2) Buenos Aires P1. The cash machine at Banco de la Provincia Buenos Aires spit out part of Carlos Rodriguez's $1,400 U.S. monthly wage in crisp, 20- patacon notes. P12. The provincial governor in Buenos Aires, Carlos Ruckauf, asked companies to accept patacons as currency alongside the peso, and said they could be used as payment for federal or municipal taxes.(3) P14. Water utilities Azurix SA, and Augas Argentinas SA, phone companies Telefonica SA and Telecom Agentia, Stet-France Telecom SA and railroad Metrovias SA have all agreed to accept the patacon. McDonals Corp. said it expects to take the currency in exchange for a new meal it plans, the Patacombo. Some banks said they would accept the notes as payment on personal and home loans.(4) P15. Osvaldo Rial, president of the Buenos Aires Province Industrial Union, offered total support for the new currency while Alto Palermo SA, which runs seven shopping malls, is negotiating with stores to accept the notes. Argentina's world champion soccer team, Boca Juniors, will let fans pay for tickets with Patacons, treasurer Orlando Salvestrini said. For many months, people are not going to have another currency, Mr. Ruckauf yesterday in a televised news conference. Argentina is bankrupt. P2. I don't know if my salary has been devalued or not, said the 43- year-old Mr. Rodriguez, one of 160,000 employees and retirees in the province of Buenos Aires getting paid in the new currency. It depends on how I'll be able to use these patacons.(5) P3. As the patacon - a one-year security with 7% interest - went into circulation yesterday, residents weren't sure what it is worth. Economists said the bills undermine the peso's one-to-one exchange rate with the dollar, the economy's anchor for a decade.(6) P4. The Buenos Aires province, Argentina's largest with 14.4 million people, more than a third of the nation's population, printed $95 million of the new notes after banks limited access to loans. Provincial employees began withdrawing in patacons the portion of their July salary above 740 pesos - three weeks after the payment was due. P5. Other provinces, strapped for cash, plan to follow Buenos Aires' lead.(7) P6. When the pile of worthless paper the provinces are printing avalanches, the federal government will not be politically able to stand by and just watch the Argentine people suffer the consequences, said Colin Negrych, manager of the Centaur Fund, a hedge fund in New York.(8) P7. The new money, which looks like an oversized peso bill, arrived as Argentine officials entered a 12th day of negotiations with the International Monetary Fund for as much as $9 billion in new loans to help the country avert a
