[e-gold-list] Re: List Dead - but now has apparently become reanimated
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- re: the hows and whats of e-gold backups it sounds like there may be enough interest in the user community to have us pop out some kind of briefing or summary on e-gold system architecture. stay tuned for that. for now - e-gold does indeed maintain offsite backups that are updated many times during the day. jay w. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course that is not true as the gold is in vaults around the world and e-gold has back-ups! But do people KNOW that E-Gold has backups?? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.0.4 iQEVAwUBO7mvJcyM0YPqVE7FAQHK5Af/aPpOMy4HNiKxetXBNyHU0S3fksS5OEoL bXyKh/hF+cpRjzx0db3eOmWmevBR1C+qBMQWHblGF+Z5VtJJl7oOUNVCZAgFMtov fXbSbQA75x3Q5DLZPBJxOEsYsCYI2vSoQEtsBDyhPNRtAB1Lz/9NGe/KxsibKPHM IgN4mr4z1yrGBzy9DjBp/D9IUEFEjIrZxSwti5630Y74pOlxJds4ugmZ9wirOp3/ GiPCSyxiT0UFihXQObGZEqqN12ZcO/qMzrAwWO/G5ZfYn6zHueBhCXQSpTNH33I4 jP/6qFHvVdBWHts9CL894VSg8v4oy0RD29HtHPBtxPT3xTlPHVfztA== =+FZb -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
Thanks for everybody's clueful answers to my possibly clueless question. They'd all be interesting to grapple with, but since Luc Van den Borre and Jim Ray both challenge me to justify an assumption others seem to take for granted, let me see if I'm up to that. Specifically, Luc asks: Why would there be a relationship between the price of gold and the number of goldbars e-gold holds for its customers? And Jim, less delicately: the price of gold has NOTHING to do with how many grams of e-gold are in circulation. Well, now, dangit, Jim, you may be right. You usually are. But help me out here. The reason I'm assuming the price of gold in fact has PLENTY to do with the circulation of e-gold goes something like this: Let's say I want to know whether e-gold and gold itself are effectively the same commodity. To know this, it would help to know if the demand for e-gold moves in tandem with the demand for gold. To know the demand for gold, it would help to look at its price. To know the demand for e-gold, however, I would have to find something else to look at, since e-gold's price is pegged to gold's. So where do I look? Not at the velocity. That could be big whether people are selling or buying. Not at the number of accounts. That never goes down! The circulation, though, is pretty unambiguous. If it goes up, more e-gold is being bought than sold. If it goes down, more e-gold is being sold than bought. Kinda the way the price would act, if e-gold had its own price. Therefore: the circulation of e-gold is the handiest metric to compare to the price of gold. Right? Now, admittedly, it's a rough comparison. But I don't think it's apples and oranges. More like oranges and tangerines, maybe. I mean, granted, it's possible that in the last three weeks 1 to 5 random e-gold users got it into their heads to redeem some bars for reasons that in no way reflect how anybody else feels about gold or e-gold. But the possible isn't the probable. If I read the Examiner correctly, there are precisely 12 accounts with enough e-gold in them right now to redeem a bar, and if one of them chooses to do so, I wouldn't guess it's likely to be on a whim. In fact -- and here, Jim, I invite you to chop down the limb I'm about to go out on -- what I *would* guess is that all those bars were redeemed by Omnipay (which I understand to be the MM of last resort -- correct?) and sold to cover a net outflow representing a whole lot of smaller sales of e-gold. Maybe even a whole *statistically significant* lot of smaller sales. So that yes, in the end, I think it might make plenty of sense to compare the recent drop in e-gold's circulation to the rise in the price of gold. OK. Luc: You reckoned it would be interesting to see my reasoning, and I hope it was. Jim: Lock and load. You may commence shooting holes in my argument when ready. Everybody else feel free to pile on. Julian PS: Jim, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to head any of this off before it gets into Wired. The whole topic is probably too abstruse to end up in my article anyhow. (Why else would I spend so much time thinking about it? :-P) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
Let's say I want to know whether e-gold and gold itself are effectively the same commodity. Julian, they self-evidently are NOT the same commodity, they are not the same thing. (commodity is a technical term, let's just say thing.) Also Julian, when you say gold itself in this sentence Let's say I want to know whether e-gold and gold itself are effectively the same commodity. what are you referring to? Do you mean LBMA bars? Do you mean Kruggerands, unassayed, in hand? Do you mean gold nuggets? Moccato delivery orders? The whole thing is sort of nonsensical, Julian. Say you are an oil trader. There are very much different TYPES of oil. There is sweet light crude, in a tanker, there is sweet light crude, for november delivery at the docks at galveston, there is sweet light crude landed. All are totally different -- there are different markets and indeed trading pits, etc, for each. My child's godfather just bought the kid some gold, on the street, from a bullion dealer. The price of that type of gold is utterly different, say, the price of gold you see quoted on CNBC which is (typically) the price in the trading pits for stored LBMA bars in London. ...since e-gold's price is pegged to gold's. This is wrong. (You're thinking of the fact that, on the e-gold site, it happens to show the CURRENT PRICE OF GOLD, ie in London, so that when people pay things using egold, say you pay me $20, there is a suitable conversion factor to use.) The price of e-gold is not pegged to the price of gold. As Omnipay holds a monopoly, e-gold is sold in only one way: by Omnipay selling it wholesale to MMs. That spread they charge varies -- hell, Douglas increased it a bit during the recent war events, ie, the price went up. So that yes, in the end, I think it might make plenty of sense to compare the recent drop in e-gold's circulation to the rise in the price of gold. If you're saying I observe that as it happens e-gold is losing business and declining, that is a perfectly resonsble statement. If e-gold keeps losing 5 bars a week it will scease to exists in a year. if you are saying I observe that as it happens e-gold is losing business and declining -- and I link that to the fact that the gold price is rising ... that is a completely incorrect statement. I have already given you substantial irrefutable examples where the price of gold moved rapidly and nothing particularly happened one way or another to the # bars of egold. if you are saying .. I observe that as it happens e-gold is losing business and declining -- and I link that to the fact that the gold price is rising ... and therefore I have proven that egold is not really gold itself that is sort of an incoherent statement because: obviously, selfevidently, and totally, e-gold is not the same as some other particular form of gold (what .. MDOs?) one may mention. the format, location, jurisdiction and storage situation of commodities is totally critical. (The tagline e-gold is gold itself is a clever tagline understood to mean that e-gold is 100% storage-gold, as opposed to a fractional currency. The sentence e-gold is gold itself is meaningless if you're being accurate .. what SORT of gold is it? is e-gold gold coins in pocket, itself or is e-gold LBMA bars in storage itself, or what? It is no discovery to observe that e-gold is not really gold itself.) Everybody else feel free to pile on. I'm not piling on but I have pointed out to you, completely conculsively, that there has NEVER BEEN any relationship between the price of gold, or spikes in the price of gold (either up or down) and the number opf bars of e-gold in circulation. That's the end of the argument really! (It's all in the charts!) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://capitalismmagazine.com/2001/september/rp_conquer_savages.htm http://www.objectivistcenter.org/pubs/rb_unilateral_moral_disarmament.asp --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
Since SnowDog asked: I still have not finished my article on e-gold (yes, I am basically the slowest-working man in journalism). Should be done soon, though, and I expect the piece will run in the December or January issue of Wired == i.e., it'll be out in November or December. Meanwhile, I have another question for you all: What does it mean that e-gold's circulation has dropped 5 bars since 9/11, while the price of gold has mostly gone up? I presume it means at minimum that e-gold is not in fact gold itself. So what exactly is the difference? Wondering, Julian --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
What does it mean that e-gold's circulation has dropped 5 bars since 9/11, while the price of gold has mostly gone up? I presume it means at minimum that e-gold is not in fact gold itself. So what exactly is the difference? I've noticed this too, so I'll take a stab at it: The reason that the demand for physical gold is UP, but the demand for e-gold is down is because...if someone smashes an airplane into E-Gold's Servers, you don't get to keep your gold. SnowDog --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
At 04:41 PM -0500 10/01/2001, Julian Dibbell wrote: ... Meanwhile, I have another question for you all: What does it mean that e-gold's circulation has dropped 5 bars since 9/11, while the price of gold has mostly gone up? I presume it means at minimum that e-gold is not in fact gold itself. So what exactly is the difference? Wondering, Julian !?!??!?!!?? I'm not sure how you draw the conclusion here that e-gold isn't gold itself, Julian. Someone redeemed bars, so fewer are in circulation, but the price of gold has NOTHING to do with how many grams of e-gold are in circulation, and I'm somewhat shocked (and worried...) with a question like this from you this late in the game... Are you beginning to see why I'm so pro-proofreading? I hope so. Thanks. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
On 1 Oct 2001, at 21:47, SnowDog wrote: if someone smashes an airplane into E-Gold's Servers, you don't get to keep your gold. Craig, Of course that is not true as the gold is in vaults around the world and e-gold has back-ups! It seams to me that e-gold was never sold as a gold investment, but as a payment system, which it is certainly. So people are buying e-gold to do e-commerce, period. e-gold should reverse course and start marketing e-gold also as a store of value that people can save, like gold coins. Claude http://www.goldcurrencies.ca http://www.ormetal.com = Claude Cormier Public Key http://www.ormetal.com/keys/ClaudeCormier.asc = --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
Meanwhile, I have another question for you all: What does it mean that e-gold's circulation has dropped 5 bars since 9/11, That means that e-gold has become less popular since 9/11. Any guess as to why is purely a guess. (It is an imponderable, like why is Pepsi less pipular than Coke!) Here are some totally random guesses off the top of my head: (*) the Secret Service raid on Parker Bradley has shaken faith in e-gold (*) GoldMoney, and e-bullion, are taking market share away from e-gold (*) all the lawsuits with Ian Grigg or whoever are shaking faith in e-gold, making people shy away from it in case Ian, say, suddenly confiscates all the gold! :) (*) all the HYIP activity has moved to OS-Gold or whatever its called. (*) it is an irrelevant dip, part of the natural jitter of the graph (*) it was a market top -- e-gold will never again be as big as it was (*) one large customer happened to withdraw 5 bars (*) five large customers happened to withdraw 1 bar each (*) some sort of big con was pulled off, the villains took their profits in gold (*) bars are being converted to GoldMoney bars [only the operators of GoldMoney would know if this is true, as, GM does NOT publish how many bars they have] (*) Omnipay had a big wash of gold liquidity, and, they have decided to reduce it for some reason (or possibly some other very large market maker) (*) people distrust e-gold's infrastructure during war times, and are taking out physical bars Some questions: can anyone analyse the NUMBER OF SPENDS at e-gold and see if they are also down in that timeframe? Note that in times of war people often take gold bars OUT OF SAFE DEPOSIT BOXES and literally hold them on their person or in their house: gold bars in safe deposit boxes are not really the same as gold bars in hand, ditto egold I guess. while the price of gold has mostly gone up? (That seems to be a completely unrelated fact, Julian. The price has shot up or down very hard many, many times over the last few years, often dwarfing this spike [obvious examples would be the much huger spike in summer of this year, or the ultra spike in the middle of 99], and I saw no particular correlation with e-gold use -- nor can I see off the top of my head any reason why there would be?) I presume it means at minimum that e-gold is not in fact gold itself. So what exactly is the difference? Wondering, Julian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://capitalismmagazine.com/2001/september/rp_conquer_savages.htm http://www.objectivistcenter.org/pubs/rb_unilateral_moral_disarmament.asp --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
if someone smashes an airplane into E-Gold's Servers, you don't get to keep your gold. Craig, Of course that is not true as the gold is in vaults around the world and e-gold has back-ups! But do people KNOW that E-Gold has backups?? Note, also, that E-Gold does not keep a 'LIVE' backup. Take the, (not defunct), CompuBank. I know the person in charge of all of the hardware and software for CompuBank. They had LIVE, real-time backups, to servers in Dallas AND California. If someone ran an airplane into their servers, here in Houston, they would not lose ANY data. E-Gold, however, is not large enough yet to maintain a LIVE backup off-site. They keep a daily backup offsite. This means that if an airplane runs into E-Gold's servers, they would lose the day's business, but would be able to recover the vast majority of their customers' wealth. All transactions made during the day of an emergency would be lost. However, as the price of gold rises, and as the demand for physical gold grows, E-gold is not keeping pace. This can only mean that people do not think of e-gold in the same category as real, physical gold. Someday they will. Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
... Take the, (not defunct), CompuBank. ... Read that 'now defunct' Compubank. Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
On 1 Oct 2001, at 20:50, SnowDog wrote: But do people KNOW that E-Gold has backups?? Well it is a standard procedures nowadays. The Live backup you are mentioning is known as transaction logging or mirroring. This is not exactly expensive. I am sure that they certainly do some logging and copy the log at diferent intervals during the day... Anyway that is certainly not the most important reason why e-gold reserves are not increasing with gold price. This can only mean that people do not think of e-gold in the same category as real, physical gold. Exactly. That is it. Someday they will. May be not. IMO, Goldmoney is taking the lead in that regard. e- gold must react I think. CC --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
Hello Julian! When is your article coming to light? SnowDog --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
At 12:55 PM -0700 09/29/2001, Goldlist Cynic wrote: Looks like the new moderation rules have finally done their dirty work... Even the valiant efforts of JPMay have been to no avail... Its very sad. Or ironic. And since when have you ever said anything positive about e-gold?? I'd think you'd be HAPPY, if your subject line is true! Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Goldlist Cynic has seemed like 100% fine whine 'round these parts, but maybe I've missed something. The point of moderation (and your message went through UN- moderated, I'll hasten to add) is to keep things more on-topic. I would be pleased to see more posts IF they were pertinent, but I'm happy that people are (finally) following the rules they saw when they joined the list, and shutting up when they don't have anything to say. It's refreshing, and hopefully will attract more subscribers in the long run. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: List DEAD :-(
Goldlist Cynic wrote: Looks like the new moderation rules have finally done their dirty work... Even the valiant efforts of JPMay have been to no avail... Its very sad. Hmm Roughly remembered/paraphrased from a Terry Pratchett book: `Dwarves sing about gold all the time' `But what is there to sing about? um, it's yellow, it glitters, you can spend it on stuff... I'm all out' `If you tried that, you'd get lynched for improvising. Mostly they sing gold gold gold. Sometimes if they're feeling adventurous they add a chorus of gold gold gold gold.' --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
