Re: Maldaptation, Extinction and Natural selection

2006-07-12 Thread James J. Roper, Ph.D.
Wirt,

I will certainly disagree here!  Friendly disagreement, of course.
 In my continuing bid to become the group's curmudgeon,
Since there are no other candidates, I guess you will be elected!  :-)
 Natural selection judges only whatever advantages it finds in populations in 
 the moment. What it truly never does is assess the long-term consequences of 
 its preferences.
   
Natural selection is not a judge.  It is only differential 
representation of genes in subsequent generations, in which more 
successful genes become more common from one generation to the next.  
Sure, natural selection can be occurring while extinction is taking 
place, but the extinction is NOT the result of natural selection.

For example, we could say that natural selection is favoring longer 
bills, while habitat loss is eliminating the species.  That is, those 
birds with longer bills leave relatively more descendents, but, it is a 
moot point because it was habitat loss that eliminated the species.
 The first is the reversion of a sexual lineage back to parthenogenesis.
Parthenogensis is unaffected by natural selection, because one of the 
premises of natural selection is genetic variability among the 
population.  And, the accident of becoming parthenogenetic also was 
NOT the result of natural selection, but rather a point event.
 Doing this offers the lineage a number of hypothetical advantages, most 
 especially 
 freeing itself from the burden of maintaining males
Males are not a burden.  Species do not suffer ecological costs, 
individuals do.  And, you would not say often find a situation in which 
males compete with females, and both lose future reproductive success 
due to this competition.
 A population free of males is also capable of rapid expansions into recently 
 vacated territories.
But, not for reasons of natural selection.
 It can also survive in extremely adverse situations where a sexual population 
 would go extinct, simply due to low population numbers and the difficulty in 
 finding a mate.
   
Often, species that reproduce both sexually and asexually do the sexual 
part exactly WHEN the conditions are adverse, presumably because it is 
precisely those conditions that favor genetic (and phenotypic) 
variability.  Rotifers and aphids, for example.
 The second condition is the evolution of high-order polyploidy.
High-order polyploidy is also the result of point changes in a 
population, not natural selection.  This does not result from a gradual 
change, nor a genetic tendency?  That is, adults do NOT reproduce a 
variable set of offspring, some polyploid and the rest normal, that 
after the fact leave a variable number of offspring  There is no 
EVOLUTION for polyploidy, it happens by accident.  After that, the 
polyploid often becomes genetically isolated from its ancestors, and 
then perhaps natural selection acts on it, and all its polyploid 
descendents, based on their phenotypic (and underlying genotypic) 
variability.
 High-order polyploidy seems on the surface to be an excellent 
 information-assurance 
 mechanism, mitigating the informational corruption of any body of information 
 that is 
 replicated generation after generation indefinitely.
   
Accidents are not adaptations.
 While we find both types of populations in nature, their rarity is prima 
 facie evidence that they are not strategies that are successful on the 
 long-term, 
   
That is a circular argument.  Also, there are examples of both that have 
probably been around since the cambrian.  So, duration is also evidence 
of success.
 However, the phenomenon is unknown in mammals, and I have long attributed the 
 evolution of differential imprinting of the chromosomes that pass through 
 either maternal or paternal gametogenesis to be an evolutionary brake that 
 prevents a reversion to parthenogenesis in mammals.
You cannot call parthenogenesis a reversion, since ancestral vertebrates 
were probably not parthenogenetic.  As accidents, there is nothing to 
explain.  Mammals are just unable to have these kinds of accidents.  
Hybridizing lizards MAY become parthenogenic (Cnemidophorus), but they 
don't have to.

There are no evolutionary brakes, as that implies planned evolution, and 
by your own accounting, evolution does not plan...nor does natural 
selection.

Mutations are not planned, they just happen.

Cheers,
Jim

-- 
-
James J. Roper, Ph.D.
Universidade Federal do Paraná
Depto. de Zoologia
Caixa Postal 19020
81531-990 Curitiba, Paraná, Brasil
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Re: Maldaptation, Extinction and Natural selection

2006-07-12 Thread James J. Roper, Ph.D.
 It seems to me a bit arbitrary to accept that natural selection is 
 taking place when a certain fraction of individuals are selectively 
 culled from a population, yet when that fraction reaches 100% that 
 something different is necessarily going on. To be sure, the RESPONSE 
 of a population to natural selection when mortality is 100% will be a 
 moot point (unless one is considering selection of higher scale 
 entities, dare I say groups?), but to deny that the same processes are 
 at work seems like a bid for special treatment.
Indivdiuals are not selectively culled from a population, but rather 
they leave fewer descendants than others.

I would say that a population decline is probably completely independent 
of natural selection, in that something else is causing the decline.  
Natural selection is only about the differential representation of genes 
in subsequent generations, in which some individuals with some traits 
leave more descendents - WHEN natural selection is occuring.

So, my point has nothing to do with how many individuals are involved.  
Besides, natural selection works with individuals, not populations...

Cheers,

JIm

-- 
-
James J. Roper, Ph.D.
Universidade Federal do Paraná
Depto. de Zoologia
Caixa Postal 19020
81531-990 Curitiba, Paraná, Brasil
=
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone/Fone/Teléfono:   55 41 33611764
celular:   55 41 99870543
e-fax:1-206-202-0173 (in the USA)
=
Zoologia na UFPR
http://www.bio.ufpr.br/zoologia/
Ecologia e Conservação na UFPR
http://www.bio.ufpr.br/ecologia/
-
  http://jjroper.sites.uol.com.br


Re: Maldaptation, Extinction and Natural selection

2006-07-11 Thread James J. Roper, Ph.D.
Sorry, the scenario is to poorly defined to say anything about it, and 
there is probably no contradiction.  But, there is also no reason to 
think that natural selection is always in action.  And, certainly, 
natural selection CANNOT select for extinction.

Read Natural Selection in the Wild by Endler.

Jim

Kim van der Linde wrote:
 Hi all,

 I am having an interesing discussion at the moment about Natural 
 selection. The context is a single population of individuals that, due 
 to changes in the environment, are now maladapted and the population 
 is reducing in size. Based on the often used definition of 
 differential reproduction, when there is not much to differentiate 
 with, there is no longer differential selection, and as such, no 
 natural selection. However, they are maladapted, so unfit to survive. 
 Any opinions about this nice contradiction?

 Cheers,

 Kim


-- 
-
James J. Roper, Ph.D.
Universidade Federal do Paraná
Depto. de Zoologia
Caixa Postal 19020
81531-990 Curitiba, Paraná, Brasil
=
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone/Fone/Teléfono:   55 41 33611764
celular:   55 41 99870543
e-fax:1-206-202-0173 (in the USA)
=
Zoologia na UFPR
http://www.bio.ufpr.br/zoologia/
Ecologia e Conservação na UFPR
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  http://jjroper.sites.uol.com.br


Re: Advice for Managing Email Re: Email list practice Evolution and self administration [Those not interested in the subject, please delete now with my apologies] Re Behavior animal or Ethology in

2006-06-24 Thread James J. Roper, Ph.D.
I think there is an awful lot of worrying about something that ain't broken.

If it don't stink, don't stir it.

And, as far as announcements go, start the subject line with 
announcement.]

Jim

-- 
-
James J. Roper, Ph.D.
Universidade Federal do Paraná
Depto. de Zoologia
Caixa Postal 19020
81531-990 Curitiba, Paraná, Brasil
=
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone/Fone/Teléfono:   55 41 33611764
celular:   55 41 99870543
e-fax:1-206-202-0173 (in the USA)
=
Zoologia na UFPR
http://www.bio.ufpr.br/zoologia/
Ecologia e Conservação na UFPR
http://www.bio.ufpr.br/ecologia/
-
  http://jjroper.sites.uol.com.br