It sounds like Clara is challenging the current theory and questioning it but I
don't see that she has in any way perpetuated dysfunction.
Facts indicate that woman have been and are still discriminated against but
this doesn't explain all the variation we see- not by a long shot I don't
think.
I am not saying I agree with Clara, but wow, your statement, Silvia, is very
dogmatic. Clara presented ideas to be considered and opinion to help inform the
collective. Silvia rather, sounds much more bombastic with the intent to stifle
her- that is unfortunate.
Mark
-Original Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Silvia Secchi
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:43 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Fwd: [ECOLOG-L] Families in Science - Balancing your
personal and professional life
Men make the rules, men win the game, Clara. People like you that do not
question the system or do not try to change it perpetuate a dysfunctional
professional environment.
Silvia Secchi
Assistant Professor, Energy Economics Policy Southern Illinois University
Carbondale
On Apr 11, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Clara B. Jones foucaul...@gmail.com wrote:
Andres: 1. ...i think i really do hear what you are saying, and i get
that the advantages afforded to professional females (including
females in research science careers) in some countries are beneficial
to them and their families...
2. ...however, what level of Science are these females doing...
3. ...is their productivity, including the quality of their research,
equivalent to that of USA men who work, say, 80+ h/week...
4. ...is the quality of work being done in the countries you cite
equivalent to what would be required to achieve senior (i;e.,
professorship [+]) status in the US...
5. ...i don't think i know what the answers to the above questions
are; however, i suspect the answers are no...
6. ...from what i do know, however, i THINK that collaborative
research is acceptable in Europe to a degree that it is not in the USA
where, it seems to me, females who rely on collaboration are
often/usually perceived as hitch(h)iking on a senior person's
research projects...though this strategy may, indeed, purchase senior
status in the USA, it often does not translate to reputation or respect
(indeed, there are exceptions)...
7. ...following from the threads on this topic in the past few d...i
think i hear females saying that they're not competing for the sorts
of positions that i describe above...so be it...as one respondent put
it, after a baby came her priorities changed...again, so be it...SORT OF...
8. ...what i mean by SORT OF is that i don't see a problem with USA
females changing priorities UNLESS they've received funding or made
other commitments under the guise that they want to be senior
scientists *as defined in USA*...
9. ...several female respondents have pointed out that female graduate
students, post-docs, etc. are grown-ups capable of making their own
rational decisions...all good...then they should be prepared to
assume responsibility for their decisions...understanding *the
realities of USA science that they signed up for*...
10. ...what is the Plan B for these girls that will fulfill their
commitments *(to USA science)* when they switch priorities...
11. ...what is their plan for purchasing UNDIVIDED, UNINTERRUPTED,
SINGLE-FOCUSED, LONG-TERM, OFTEN UNPREDICTABLE TIME required to
accomplish the sort of senior science *as defined by USA standards*...
12. ...some females minorities assert that the structure of USA
science needs to change...for a variety of reasons...
13. ...however, why should the USA modify the system producing among
the best and most successful scientists in the world...
14. ...more important, in my opinion...is that RATIONAL grown-ups of
whatever sex or sexual orientation or personal status sign up for this
system need not only to have their eyes open but need to step up by
not changing the rules unilaterally in mid- or late-stream...clara
-- Forwarded message --
From: Andres Lopez-Sepulcre lopezsepul...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Families in Science - Balancing your personal
and professional life
To: ECOLOG-L@listserv.umd.edu
Andres, do you have any ideas about how we can import that Finlandian
model
to the U.S.? And how to get more universities and other employers in
the U.S. to recognize the need to provide for professional couples?
Thanks, David
Ufff... this discussion may become more political than ecological...
the problem, as I see it is more fundamental. How willing are we to
pay higher and more progressive taxes, socialize higher education (and
health care), punish job instability, remove undergraduate and
graduate student fees (in fact, undergraduates are paid in
