Re: [ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees
Go to http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/ and author search for 'birdsey' Wealth of U.S. carbon / nutrient cycling research publications. I am sure there are much more on the international front as well but that will take a bit more searching. Best Regards, Neil Neil Clark Extension Agent, ANR, Southeast District Forestry and Southampton Interim Email: southe...@vt.edu Cell: 757-375-2507 Office: 757-653-2572Fax: 757-653-2849 P.O. Box 10 21300 Plank Road Courtland, VA 23837-0010 -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Koechy Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:17 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees Hi Geoff, You are right, that's what trees tend to do, but the intensity is variable. The keyword is "island of fertility" if you look for more information and a classical paper on this subject is Zinke PJ (1962) The pattern of influence of individual forest trees on soil properties. Ecology 43: 130-133. Cheers, Martin Am 2011-04-13 um 04:59 schrieb Geoffrey Patton: > ? To what degree do trees self-fertilize by dropping leaves and building > their own humus ? They capture energy from the sun and nutrients from the air > (and soil) and some of that production feeds the soil upon which the > following year's growth depends. The soil biota processes the wastes, further > captures atmospherically-deposited nutrients, and makes it all newly > available for further growth, I would imagine. Apologies for being a marine > biologist but this seems like something that might have been researched > already. Yes or no? > > > > Cordially yours, > > Geoff Patton, Ph.D. > 2208 Parker Ave., Wheaton, MD 20902 301.221.9536 --| http://sci.martinkoechy.de | Dr. Martin Köchy (Koechy) Johann Heinrich von Thünen-Institut -Bundesforschungsinstitut für Ländliche Räume, Wald und Fischerei- Institut für Agrarrelevante Klimaforschung Johann Heinrich von Thuenen Institute -Federal Research Institute for Rural Areas, Forestry and Fisheries- Institute of Agricultural Climate Research vTI-AK * Bundesallee 50 * 38116 Braunschweig * GERMANY Telefon: +49-531-596-2640 * Telefax: +49-531-596-2699 http://www.vti.bund.de/de/startseite/institute/ak.html skype: martinkoechy --- & --- AG Vegetationsökologie & Naturschutz|RG Veg. Ecology & Nature Conserv. Universität Potsdam| University of Potsdam Am Neuen Palais 10 * 14469 Potsdam * GERMANY www.bio.uni-potsdam.de/professuren/vegetationsoekologie-naturschutz
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees
Hello Geoff, Some other resources that have served as solid references over the years: Swift MJ, Heal OW, Anderson JM (1979) Decomposition in terrestrial ecosystems. Stevenson FJ (1994) Humus chemistry: genesis, composition, reactions. Cadisch G, Giller KE (1997) Driven by nature: plant litter quality and decomposition. Berg B (2006) Litter decomposition: a guide to carbon and nutrient turnover. A wealth of research has been conducted along this theme and is still fertile territory today for its relevance in agricultural systems, its role in carbon sequestration and even in the supply of nutrients to aquatic systems. Great stuff that begins with death and decay. Enjoy! With best regards, Kye On Apr 12, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Geoffrey Patton wrote: > ? To what degree do trees self-fertilize by dropping leaves and building > their own humus ? They capture energy from the sun and nutrients from the air > (and soil) and some of that production feeds the soil upon which the > following year's growth depends. The soil biota processes the wastes, further > captures atmospherically-deposited nutrients, and makes it all newly > available for further growth, I would imagine. Apologies for being a marine > biologist but this seems like something that might have been researched > already. Yes or no? > > > > Cordially yours, > > Geoff Patton, Ph.D. > 2208 Parker Ave., Wheaton, MD 20902 301.221.9536
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees
Hi - I suggest you look into the work of Ray Calloway, prof. at U Montana. He's done some fascinating work along these lines. Cheers, Michael Cooperman -Original Message- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Meiss Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:19 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees It's probably more reasonable to think of the soil-building properties of leaves (and other things that fall out of trees, like twigs, fruit, bird poop, etc.) at the level of the forest rather than at the level of the individual tree. After all, leaves don't fall straight down, and after they hit the ground, they don't necessarily stay where they fall (wind, you know). Even if they did, there is no guarantee that each branch of a tree has a root waiting under it. Additionally, understory plants growing beneath the tree compete with the tree for water and nutrients, since their roots occupy the same soil. Thus, in a situation where water limits growth, a tree, by enriching the soil below its crown, could hurt itself by favoring the growth of small plants that compete with it for water. If a tree is to benefit nutritionally from loss of leaves, etc., probably the best thing is to minimize the lose by pulling as much nutrient as possible from the parts to be shed. This is what's going on when leaves turn color before falling off in autumn of the temperate zone. However, plants have never evolved a way (to the best of my knowledge) of remobilizing cellulose, hemicellulose, or lignin, so these materials can't by scavenged metabolically. However, they are also materials not containing much of nutritional value; their loss is primarily an energy loss. The benefit of withdrawing nutrients from leaves leads to selective pressure for proper timing of the withdrawal. If trees do it too early, they loose part of the growing season, and if they do it to late, frost can kill the leaves before the nutrient is withdrawn (and dead leaves no longer have the metabolic machinery needed to support withdrawal of nutrients). In my yard I have an introduced species of mulberry, far from the climate where its ancestors evolved, and in the fall it seldom reads the climatic cues (day length and temperature) correctly. Its leaves stay bright green till a hard frost kills them, then they fall to the ground, sometimes in a single night, still bright green. Surprisingly, the tree still grows like hell, and every few years I have to trim a lot of wood out of it. Martin M. Meiss 2011/4/13 Martin Koechy > Hi Geoff, > > You are right, that's what trees tend to do, but the intensity is variable. > The keyword is "island of fertility" if you look for more information and a > classical paper on this subject is Zinke PJ (1962) The pattern of influence > of individual forest trees on soil properties. Ecology 43: 130-133. > > Cheers, > > Martin > > Am 2011-04-13 um 04:59 schrieb Geoffrey Patton: > > > ? To what degree do trees self-fertilize by dropping leaves and building > their own humus ? They capture energy from the sun and nutrients from the > air (and soil) and some of that production feeds the soil upon which the > following year's growth depends. The soil biota processes the wastes, > further captures atmospherically-deposited nutrients, and makes it all newly > available for further growth, I would imagine. Apologies for being a marine > biologist but this seems like something that might have been researched > already. Yes or no? > > > > > > > > Cordially yours, > > > > Geoff Patton, Ph.D. > > 2208 Parker Ave., Wheaton, MD 20902 301.221.9536 > > --| http://sci.martinkoechy.de | > Dr. Martin Köchy (Koechy) > > Johann Heinrich von Thünen-Institut > -Bundesforschungsinstitut für Ländliche Räume, Wald und Fischerei- > Institut für Agrarrelevante Klimaforschung > > Johann Heinrich von Thuenen Institute > -Federal Research Institute for Rural Areas, Forestry and Fisheries- > Institute of Agricultural Climate Research > > vTI-AK * Bundesallee 50 * 38116 Braunschweig * GERMANY > Telefon: +49-531-596-2640 * Telefax: +49-531-596-2699 > http://www.vti.bund.de/de/startseite/institute/ak.html > skype: martinkoechy > --- & --- > AG Vegetationsökologie & Naturschutz|RG Veg. Ecology & Nature Conserv. > Universität Potsdam| University of Potsdam > Am Neuen Palais 10 * 14469 Potsdam * GERMANY > > www.bio.uni-potsdam.de/professuren/vegetationsoekologie-naturschutz >
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees
It's probably more reasonable to think of the soil-building properties of leaves (and other things that fall out of trees, like twigs, fruit, bird poop, etc.) at the level of the forest rather than at the level of the individual tree. After all, leaves don't fall straight down, and after they hit the ground, they don't necessarily stay where they fall (wind, you know). Even if they did, there is no guarantee that each branch of a tree has a root waiting under it. Additionally, understory plants growing beneath the tree compete with the tree for water and nutrients, since their roots occupy the same soil. Thus, in a situation where water limits growth, a tree, by enriching the soil below its crown, could hurt itself by favoring the growth of small plants that compete with it for water. If a tree is to benefit nutritionally from loss of leaves, etc., probably the best thing is to minimize the lose by pulling as much nutrient as possible from the parts to be shed. This is what's going on when leaves turn color before falling off in autumn of the temperate zone. However, plants have never evolved a way (to the best of my knowledge) of remobilizing cellulose, hemicellulose, or lignin, so these materials can't by scavenged metabolically. However, they are also materials not containing much of nutritional value; their loss is primarily an energy loss. The benefit of withdrawing nutrients from leaves leads to selective pressure for proper timing of the withdrawal. If trees do it too early, they loose part of the growing season, and if they do it to late, frost can kill the leaves before the nutrient is withdrawn (and dead leaves no longer have the metabolic machinery needed to support withdrawal of nutrients). In my yard I have an introduced species of mulberry, far from the climate where its ancestors evolved, and in the fall it seldom reads the climatic cues (day length and temperature) correctly. Its leaves stay bright green till a hard frost kills them, then they fall to the ground, sometimes in a single night, still bright green. Surprisingly, the tree still grows like hell, and every few years I have to trim a lot of wood out of it. Martin M. Meiss 2011/4/13 Martin Koechy > Hi Geoff, > > You are right, that's what trees tend to do, but the intensity is variable. > The keyword is "island of fertility" if you look for more information and a > classical paper on this subject is Zinke PJ (1962) The pattern of influence > of individual forest trees on soil properties. Ecology 43: 130–133. > > Cheers, > > Martin > > Am 2011-04-13 um 04:59 schrieb Geoffrey Patton: > > > ? To what degree do trees self-fertilize by dropping leaves and building > their own humus ? They capture energy from the sun and nutrients from the > air (and soil) and some of that production feeds the soil upon which the > following year's growth depends. The soil biota processes the wastes, > further captures atmospherically-deposited nutrients, and makes it all newly > available for further growth, I would imagine. Apologies for being a marine > biologist but this seems like something that might have been researched > already. Yes or no? > > > > > > > > Cordially yours, > > > > Geoff Patton, Ph.D. > > 2208 Parker Ave., Wheaton, MD 20902 301.221.9536 > > --| http://sci.martinkoechy.de | > Dr. Martin Köchy (Koechy) > > Johann Heinrich von Thünen-Institut > -Bundesforschungsinstitut für Ländliche Räume, Wald und Fischerei- > Institut für Agrarrelevante Klimaforschung > > Johann Heinrich von Thuenen Institute > -Federal Research Institute for Rural Areas, Forestry and Fisheries- > Institute of Agricultural Climate Research > > vTI-AK * Bundesallee 50 * 38116 Braunschweig * GERMANY > Telefon: +49-531-596-2640 * Telefax: +49-531-596-2699 > http://www.vti.bund.de/de/startseite/institute/ak.html > skype: martinkoechy > --- & --- > AG Vegetationsökologie & Naturschutz|RG Veg. Ecology & Nature Conserv. > Universität Potsdam| University of Potsdam > Am Neuen Palais 10 * 14469 Potsdam * GERMANY > > www.bio.uni-potsdam.de/professuren/vegetationsoekologie-naturschutz >
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees
Hi Geoff, You are right, that's what trees tend to do, but the intensity is variable. The keyword is "island of fertility" if you look for more information and a classical paper on this subject is Zinke PJ (1962) The pattern of influence of individual forest trees on soil properties. Ecology 43: 130–133. Cheers, Martin Am 2011-04-13 um 04:59 schrieb Geoffrey Patton: > ? To what degree do trees self-fertilize by dropping leaves and building > their own humus ? They capture energy from the sun and nutrients from the air > (and soil) and some of that production feeds the soil upon which the > following year's growth depends. The soil biota processes the wastes, further > captures atmospherically-deposited nutrients, and makes it all newly > available for further growth, I would imagine. Apologies for being a marine > biologist but this seems like something that might have been researched > already. Yes or no? > > > > Cordially yours, > > Geoff Patton, Ph.D. > 2208 Parker Ave., Wheaton, MD 20902 301.221.9536 --| http://sci.martinkoechy.de | Dr. Martin Köchy (Koechy) Johann Heinrich von Thünen-Institut -Bundesforschungsinstitut für Ländliche Räume, Wald und Fischerei- Institut für Agrarrelevante Klimaforschung Johann Heinrich von Thuenen Institute -Federal Research Institute for Rural Areas, Forestry and Fisheries- Institute of Agricultural Climate Research vTI-AK * Bundesallee 50 * 38116 Braunschweig * GERMANY Telefon: +49-531-596-2640 * Telefax: +49-531-596-2699 http://www.vti.bund.de/de/startseite/institute/ak.html skype: martinkoechy --- & --- AG Vegetationsökologie & Naturschutz|RG Veg. Ecology & Nature Conserv. Universität Potsdam| University of Potsdam Am Neuen Palais 10 * 14469 Potsdam * GERMANY www.bio.uni-potsdam.de/professuren/vegetationsoekologie-naturschutz
[ECOLOG-L] Rhetorical question on trees
? To what degree do trees self-fertilize by dropping leaves and building their own humus ? They capture energy from the sun and nutrients from the air (and soil) and some of that production feeds the soil upon which the following year's growth depends. The soil biota processes the wastes, further captures atmospherically-deposited nutrients, and makes it all newly available for further growth, I would imagine. Apologies for being a marine biologist but this seems like something that might have been researched already. Yes or no? Cordially yours, Geoff Patton, Ph.D. 2208 Parker Ave., Wheaton, MD 20902 301.221.9536
