Re: [ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error
Sorry Wayne I disagree with you. I've read the Kune-type discussions for years and while I don't disagree with the fundamental premise something different is affecting the way science is done now. There is a lot of current psychological research showing how context radically affects human perception and decision making. The context here is being driven by universities, agencies, etc. For an popular and very enlightening description read Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. I highly recommend all of his books for insights on how humans make decisions, why success is mostly a matter of luck, why institutions fail, and what drives fundamental change in human systems. I'm not going to get into debating the academic niceties of whether this is a Kune-type phenomenon or not or how to change the system - see Gladwell's Tipping Point for ideas. I think that the frustration with the publication process that has been expressed on this list often along with the life-work balance issues that were recently raised are all part of the same problem. John Gerlach From: Wayne Tyson To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 5:03:42 AM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error AS USUAL, I must violently disagree with Chew--on the contrary, everyone should TAKE HOURS to study this article AND the responses it spawned, as well as the key link http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124 . I nominate Chew's post as the most important of the year. WT PS: I wonder how many heads will end up on pikes as a result of daring to comment on this? This is (in my view) a key comment from the website: 2012-05-10 11:24 AM Report this comment | #42493 David Tyler said:"How can we explain such pervasive bias? Like a magnetic field that pulls iron filings into alignment, a powerful cultural belief is aligning multiple sources of scientific bias in the same direction." Surely the analysis of Thomas Kuhn, helpfully articulated in a recent review by David Kaiser (Nature, 12 April 2012, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v484/n7393/full/484164a.html) is relevant here. Most researchers are practicing "normal science" and are building on a consensual paradigm. They have a model of incremental progress and they think deductively that all "positives" must advance the paradigm. They are not thinking about false positives. This is the real "cultural belief" that steers the way research is done. Somehow, we need to avoid appeals to scientific "consensus" that closes down or confines discourse. Science thrives when the appeal is not to consensus but to evidence. Why can't the "multiple working hypotheses" approach be more widely adopted? From - Original Message - From: "Matt Chew" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:30 AM Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error > Everyone should take a minute to read this Nature 'world view' piece. >http://www.nature.com/news/beware-the-creeping-cracks-of-bias-1.10600?WT.ec_id=NEWS-20120515 >5 > > Matthew K Chew > Assistant Research Professor > Arizona State University School of Life Sciences > > ASU Center for Biology & Society > PO Box 873301 > Tempe, AZ 85287-3301 USA > Tel 480.965.8422 > Fax 480.965.8330 > mc...@asu.edu or anek...@gmail.com > http://cbs.asu.edu/people/profiles/chew.php > http://asu.academia.edu/MattChew > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5000 - Release Date: 05/15/12 >
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error
AS USUAL, I must violently disagree with Chew--on the contrary, everyone should TAKE HOURS to study this article AND the responses it spawned, as well as the key link http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124 . I nominate Chew's post as the most important of the year. WT PS: I wonder how many heads will end up on pikes as a result of daring to comment on this? This is (in my view) a key comment from the website: 2012-05-10 11:24 AM Report this comment | #42493 David Tyler said:"How can we explain such pervasive bias? Like a magnetic field that pulls iron filings into alignment, a powerful cultural belief is aligning multiple sources of scientific bias in the same direction." Surely the analysis of Thomas Kuhn, helpfully articulated in a recent review by David Kaiser (Nature, 12 April 2012, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v484/n7393/full/484164a.html) is relevant here. Most researchers are practicing "normal science" and are building on a consensual paradigm. They have a model of incremental progress and they think deductively that all "positives" must advance the paradigm. They are not thinking about false positives. This is the real "cultural belief" that steers the way research is done. Somehow, we need to avoid appeals to scientific "consensus" that closes down or confines discourse. Science thrives when the appeal is not to consensus but to evidence. Why can't the "multiple working hypotheses" approach be more widely adopted? From - Original Message - From: "Matt Chew" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:30 AM Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error Everyone should take a minute to read this Nature 'world view' piece. http://www.nature.com/news/beware-the-creeping-cracks-of-bias-1.10600?WT.ec_id=NEWS-20120515 Matthew K Chew Assistant Research Professor Arizona State University School of Life Sciences ASU Center for Biology & Society PO Box 873301 Tempe, AZ 85287-3301 USA Tel 480.965.8422 Fax 480.965.8330 mc...@asu.edu or anek...@gmail.com http://cbs.asu.edu/people/profiles/chew.php http://asu.academia.edu/MattChew - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5000 - Release Date: 05/15/12
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:06 PM, malcolm McCallum wrote: > This entire commentary is actually a criticism of our lack of > replication by multiple researchers. When a study comes out, it needs > to be reinvestigated by others, not just accepted. Take a landmark > paper, hand it to an MS student and have them redo the study and then > add a follow up twist. This is simply not done enough today. I wonder if this is related to the apparent decline in the numbers of MS students, as opposed to PhD students, from whom more originality is expected. I was discouraged from pursuing an MS and ended up straight out of undergrad, like many grad students in my program. (We had more PhD students than MS students.) This worked out well for me, but I wonder about the larger consequences. -- - Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D. Mathematical Biology Curriculum Writer, UCLA co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org "In the long run, education intended to produce a molecular geneticist, a systems ecologist, or an immunologist is inferior, both for the individual and for society, than that intended to produce a broadly educated person who has also written a dissertation." --John Janovy, Jr., "On Becoming a Biologist"
Re: [ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error
Hard to believe they let this statement make it into publication... "A biased scientific result is no different from a useless one. Neither can be turned into a real-world application." Especially after just a few lines earlier they state... "Bias is an inescapable element of research, especially in fields such as biomedicine that strive to isolate cause–effect relations in complex systems in which relevant variables and phenomena can never be fully identified or characterized. " In other words, the anti-research/anti-academic/anti-intellectual crowd can now grab these two sentences, misquote them and indicate that a paper in science just stated that RESEARCH IS A WASTE OF TIME BECAUSE IT NEVER HAS ANY REAL WORLD APPLICATION It would be great if a paper criticizing errors in others' work actually read their work carefully! :) (that is a tongue in cheek comment by the way). This entire commentary is actually a criticism of our lack of replication by multiple researchers. When a study comes out, it needs to be reinvestigated by others, not just accepted. Take a landmark paper, hand it to an MS student and have them redo the study and then add a follow up twist. This is simply not done enough today. On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Matt Chew wrote: > Everyone should take a minute to read this Nature 'world view' piece. > http://www.nature.com/news/beware-the-creeping-cracks-of-bias-1.10600?WT.ec_id=NEWS-20120515 > > Matthew K Chew > Assistant Research Professor > Arizona State University School of Life Sciences > > ASU Center for Biology & Society > PO Box 873301 > Tempe, AZ 85287-3301 USA > Tel 480.965.8422 > Fax 480.965.8330 > mc...@asu.edu or anek...@gmail.com > http://cbs.asu.edu/people/profiles/chew.php > http://asu.academia.edu/MattChew -- Malcolm L. McCallum Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry School of Biological Sciences University of Missouri at Kansas City Managing Editor, Herpetological Conservation and Biology "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: Soylent Green is People! The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) Wealth w/o work Pleasure w/o conscience Knowledge w/o character Commerce w/o morality Science w/o humanity Worship w/o sacrifice Politics w/o principle Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
[ECOLOG-L] Sarewitz on Systematic Error
Everyone should take a minute to read this Nature 'world view' piece. http://www.nature.com/news/beware-the-creeping-cracks-of-bias-1.10600?WT.ec_id=NEWS-20120515 Matthew K Chew Assistant Research Professor Arizona State University School of Life Sciences ASU Center for Biology & Society PO Box 873301 Tempe, AZ 85287-3301 USA Tel 480.965.8422 Fax 480.965.8330 mc...@asu.edu or anek...@gmail.com http://cbs.asu.edu/people/profiles/chew.php http://asu.academia.edu/MattChew
