Hello everyone, I have been very interested in your recent discussions about ECS and objective HTML and see merits on both sides of the discussion. I am relatively new to Java (not to developing) and had been looking at ECS as a solution for my project requirements. Open source rocks. I would like to see some commentary from the wizards out there to either validate my choice or point me to a better tool/approach to do the following:
I want to build a truly dynamic multinational web application that can support many users across many customers all in one hosted database. The entire application, including all of it's database catalog components, screen flows, validation requirements and all kinds of formatting preferences are stored and maintained in the database. The application must dynamically adjust to the language and locale of its users. I expect this to encompass dozens of modules with ultimately hundreds of screens. From day one I have tried to avoid any static or template based approaches because I don't want to deal with thousands or more objects. I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thank you in advance. Regards Martin Kultermann eStar Communications, Inc. Office: (312) 275-0294 Portable: (847) 372-2381 Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:24 PM To: ecs-user Subject: Re: objective html on 12/18/01 10:46 AM, "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > in many ways, ecs is a success. ecs is relatively bug-free and is good at > it's job - creating marked up text in code. it's just that this doesn't > seem very exciting any more. > > - robert No. We found better ways to solve the problem. When I started out doing java servlets in 1996; Velocity, WebMacro, JSP, JHTML, GSP, etc...all these technologies either didn't exist or clearly sucked and there was nothing else to use. After being forced by a client (Novell) to use htmlKona (a commercial version of ECS created by weblogic), I did the typical thing and figured that weblogic knew what they were doing and htmlKona must be a good idea...little did I know... The sad thing is that companies like BEA/weblogic and Sun continue to push their ideas on people who don't have a clue...not realizing themselves that they don't have a clue either...EJB and JSP is a perfect example of this... Eventually, through much trial and even more error, I figured out that ECS was the wrong way to go. It is more expensive and more work to hire java engineers to convert HTML mockups into Java (ECS code) than it is to hire html designers to do it for you. It is even more of a pain in the ass to go through the process of revising that code at a later date. This is why ECS as a solution is a failure...there are much better ways now to solve the problem that didn't exist before. As a project, it was a great success...we developed a really cool piece of code and built a cool community and I made some good friends (Stephan and Robert). I also learned a lot about how to write Java code. Needless to say, back to the original email...objectivehtml will also be a failure. Contrary to what you believe, I DID look at it and I do have an understanding of how it works. The failure is not because you don't write good code, but because I have already seen people do (and have done myself) exactly what you are trying to do and have watched it fail multiple times. I said this originally, but you didn't get it. I also find it terribly sad and pretty uncool that you came here looking to advertise your product. That is like running into a crowded room and yelling out: "Hey, look at me! I'm better than all of you!". Honestly, there is very little room for innovation in the java webapp framework space at this point. We have solved nearly every problem out there. Now, it is a matter of polishing those solutions up and packaging them for distribution. DVSL will be the next killer thing and is the last major piece in the puzzle and then from there, it is just a matter of polish. My suggestion to you is to learn an existing framework and use and contribute to that instead of trying to re-invent something that has been invented and failed multiple times now. Good luck. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>