Hello everyone, I have been very interested in your recent discussions about
ECS and objective HTML and see merits on both sides of the discussion. I am
relatively new to Java (not to developing) and had been looking at ECS as a
solution for my project requirements. Open source rocks. I would like to
see some commentary from the wizards out there to either validate my choice
or point me to a better tool/approach to do the following:
I want to build a truly dynamic multinational web application that can
support many users across many customers all in one hosted database. The
entire application, including all of it's database catalog components,
screen flows, validation requirements and all kinds of formatting
preferences are stored and maintained in the database. The application must
dynamically adjust to the language and locale of its users. I expect this
to encompass dozens of modules with ultimately hundreds of screens. From day
one I have tried to avoid any static or template based approaches because I
don't want to deal with thousands or more objects.
I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thank you in advance.
Regards
Martin Kultermann
eStar Communications, Inc.
Office: (312) 275-0294
Portable: (847) 372-2381
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:24 PM
To: ecs-user
Subject: Re: objective html
on 12/18/01 10:46 AM, "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> in many ways, ecs is a success. ecs is relatively bug-free and is good at
> it's job - creating marked up text in code. it's just that this doesn't
> seem very exciting any more.
>
> - robert
No. We found better ways to solve the problem.
When I started out doing java servlets in 1996; Velocity, WebMacro, JSP,
JHTML, GSP, etc...all these technologies either didn't exist or clearly
sucked and there was nothing else to use.
After being forced by a client (Novell) to use htmlKona (a commercial
version of ECS created by weblogic), I did the typical thing and figured
that weblogic knew what they were doing and htmlKona must be a good
idea...little did I know... The sad thing is that companies like
BEA/weblogic and Sun continue to push their ideas on people who don't have a
clue...not realizing themselves that they don't have a clue either...EJB and
JSP is a perfect example of this...
Eventually, through much trial and even more error, I figured out that ECS
was the wrong way to go. It is more expensive and more work to hire java
engineers to convert HTML mockups into Java (ECS code) than it is to hire
html designers to do it for you. It is even more of a pain in the ass to go
through the process of revising that code at a later date. This is why ECS
as a solution is a failure...there are much better ways now to solve the
problem that didn't exist before. As a project, it was a great success...we
developed a really cool piece of code and built a cool community and I made
some good friends (Stephan and Robert). I also learned a lot about how to
write Java code.
Needless to say, back to the original email...objectivehtml will also be a
failure. Contrary to what you believe, I DID look at it and I do have an
understanding of how it works. The failure is not because you don't write
good code, but because I have already seen people do (and have done myself)
exactly what you are trying to do and have watched it fail multiple times. I
said this originally, but you didn't get it. I also find it terribly sad and
pretty uncool that you came here looking to advertise your product. That is
like running into a crowded room and yelling out: "Hey, look at me! I'm
better than all of you!".
Honestly, there is very little room for innovation in the java webapp
framework space at this point. We have solved nearly every problem out
there. Now, it is a matter of polishing those solutions up and packaging
them for distribution. DVSL will be the next killer thing and is the last
major piece in the puzzle and then from there, it is just a matter of
polish.
My suggestion to you is to learn an existing framework and use and
contribute to that instead of trying to re-invent something that has been
invented and failed multiple times now.
Good luck.
-jon
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