[Edu-sig] textbooks
Let me just add a couple notes ... I have used Zelle's book for teaching and I think it is great. My students were doing some pretty exciting graphics by week three. One thing I like about it is its size. It has an appropriate amount of material for a single course and is clearly at the introductory level. I also have a copy of Chun's book Core Programming and I use it a lot for my own information. I have not used it as the text but have recommended it to many students who are looking for a more comprehensive text. I look forward to the next edition. ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] SIGCSE 2006 - Special Session on Teaching with Python
Well we are talking about CS courses.So I hear you reluctantlyagreeing that there this it is appropriately core curricula.The first 2 words of the title ofBrad's book is 'Problem Solving' - implyingameans to an ends.What else?Not really reluctantly. When learning scuba, it's good to learn about Boyle's law. And why does a bottle of coke fizz when you open it? That's part of an explanation for something too (if you run out of air, rise to the surface slowly, exhaling as you go, and you'll find you keep having enough air -- but god help you if you didn't obey the navy dive tables in the first place). But is the point of scuba to fill your head with this stuff? Not really. The point is to go down there and admire all the pretty fish, to find nemo if you will. I'm into helping students find their private nemos, whatever that means in special case -- which entails learning algorithms and data structures along the way. Re 2 words (problem solving): I'm not disagreeing with Brad in any way that I know of. Kay? You admire him.I judge his public persona harshly. He isparaphrases by an admirer: nothing exciting about computing today has to do with data structuresand algorithmsI do admire Kay, more for his track record of good inventions in CS (e.g. OO/SmallTalk). That's what entitles him to rub people the wrong way with deliberately provocative statements. If he were just some guy off the street who'd read a few CS books, the effect wouldn't be the same. That being said, if *all* he does is rub people the wrong way, then I'd consider him a has been, a once great star who should now step aside and introduce us to whom he considers most promising going forward. Kay's students deserve my attention, perhaps more than Kay himself. Kay reminds me of Ted Nelson. Ted is notoriously a contrarian and likes to use the podium to decry, to broadcast his dismay with this or that dominant paradigm in computing (like, don't get him started on spreadsheets). Personal note: I've never met either Kay or Ted in person, nor even attended a live talk or lecture or presentation by either. I'd like to have that privilege sometime. In the meantime, there's streaming video and journalistic accounts. I don't think there is *nothing* to that statement. But his way is tooverstate things, not state things.I don't think that is appropriate for someone claiming to represent the high order of any branch ofscience - as he so claims.ArtA root meaning of 'geek' is circus performer of some kind. Sometimes you need front men and women who rile, provoke, stir things up. You may sense in my defense of Kay an implicit defense of my own possible role going forward: as someone who deliberately sparks controversy, by saying things repeatable in cocktail parties, with lots of tittering, with others going home offended to bash their pillows late into the night: take THAT you Kirby guy, and THAT, and THAT Kirby ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] SIGCSE 2006 - Special Session on Teaching with Python
kirby urner wrote: A root meaning of 'geek' is circus performer of some kind. Sometimes you need front men and women who rile, provoke, stir things up. Personally I have a been there, done that sense on this score. San Francisco 1969, Leary, Kesey and the Merry Pranksters. Visions, visionaries, and psycho wards. Do as you will. And the truth is, I think I do understand a lot of what drives Kay, which is perhaps why he is such a Moriarty to me. Considering the gap in our technical understandings, I would expect to not understand a word he says. The problem is, I think I understand more of it than I should - too much of it in fact. Too me he is guy who took one too many hits of some kind of digital acid. Whatever. Art ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] SIGCSE 2006 - Special Session on Teaching with Python
Do as you will. And the truth is, I think I do understand a lot of whatdrives Kay, which is perhaps why he is such a Moriarty to me. Considering the gap in our technical understandings, I would expect tonot understand a word he says.The problem is, I think I understandmore of it than I should - too much of it in fact. Too me he is guy who took one too many hits of some kind of digital acid.Whatever.ArtI'm not insensitive to your intuitions on that score. I'm leaving the door open to reaching a more negative assessment in good time. For now, I'm open minded and eager for entertainment. Of the young who made it to middle age and beyond, I've so far found many of the acid heads to be worthy candidates for my attention (maybe you *shouldn't* think of running for president, if you've never tried LSD). The grownups who rigorously eschewed anything so depraved: their reward is in heaven I suppose. Some of them are even top geeks. Bottom line: I welcome diversity, and since Kay is one voice among many, I'm not especially concerned if he's off on some wrong track in some way (maybe he'll say so himself at some point -- we all zig zag through life, some with greater amplitude than others). I'm a liberal after all: people should have the freedom to make stupid mistakes, as long as the real costs are mostly to themselves (not the case with the neocons). Kirby ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
[Edu-sig] Textbooks
Thanks to all for the discussion. I think I'm going with Zelle, with some Tk handouts for the graphics. Regards to all, Peter Chase Sul Ross State University ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
[Edu-sig] Any suggestions about turlte.py
Hello everyone, As a consequence of my complaining about it in my PyCon talk, I have been invited to submit some patches for turtle.py. To my mind, turtle.py should be something that one could actually use for some very simple programming with graphics lessons, with NO tweaking or additional software. So I think the following would be handy: 1. equally usable with either import * from turtle or import turtle imports 2. should open with a window covering at least half the screen (the current default is too small to be useful) 3. should offer some simple configuration choices for things like initial size and shape, but mostly rely on reasonable defaults 4. should offer a class wrapper so that that one could easily instantiate different turtles for a first experience with objects. 5. some minor tweaks to make it better behaved when run from IDLE Does anyone have any feedback on these ideas or any other suggestions about how turtle.py might be improved without being fundamentally changed? Note: this is about turtle.py only, for all its deficiencies. Any suggestions to try another library, system, or language will be cheerfully, but resolutely, ignored. ;) Cheers, Vern Ceder -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose - Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] Any suggestions about turtle.py
Brad, I agree on both counts. In fact my current implementation does the first already and I was just thinking today about doing the second. Thanks for the suggestions - I'm glad to hear I'm on the right track. Vern Brad Miller wrote: Vern, Thanks for taking this on. I have my students implement a turtle class as a programming assignment, but I also like to use turtle graphics for some fun recursion problems. A couple of suggestions: 1. Make Turtle an alias for Pen. I always find it weird that we are importing the Turtle module but instantiating a Pen. 2. Have an option to make the turtle go fast. Its too slow for complex stuff as it is. Brad On Feb 27, 2006, at 1:31 PM, Vern Ceder wrote: Hello everyone, As a consequence of my complaining about it in my PyCon talk, I have been invited to submit some patches for turtle.py. To my mind, turtle.py should be something that one could actually use for some very simple programming with graphics lessons, with NO tweaking or additional software. So I think the following would be handy: 1. equally usable with either import * from turtle or import turtle imports 2. should open with a window covering at least half the screen (the current default is too small to be useful) 3. should offer some simple configuration choices for things like initial size and shape, but mostly rely on reasonable defaults 4. should offer a class wrapper so that that one could easily instantiate different turtles for a first experience with objects. 5. some minor tweaks to make it better behaved when run from IDLE Does anyone have any feedback on these ideas or any other suggestions about how turtle.py might be improved without being fundamentally changed? Note: this is about turtle.py only, for all its deficiencies. Any suggestions to try another library, system, or language will be cheerfully, but resolutely, ignored. ;) Cheers, Vern Ceder -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose - Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose - Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
