[Elecraft] Reminder for 2005 TAC Sprint Logs

[Ron Polityka]

Hello,

Just a reminder for everyone to send their 2005 TAC Sprint logs in before 
July 12, 2005.


Only received a few logs so far and I do have a list going that you can find 
that at www.n3epa.org .


You do not need to figure out your score, I can do that for you. Just send 
the log and what you were using in the contest.


72
Ron de N3EPA
EPA QRP Club El Presidente'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.n3epa.org 



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[Elecraft] DigiPan PSK31 "crawl"

[Steve Jackson]

I also use a PSK20 for this mode.  It's easy to fix
the 'drift' in operation.  Once you've established the
contact, just click "lock TX frequency" and you won't
be chasing each other up the band.  Works for me, YMMV.



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[Elecraft] I love toroids

[Jeremiah McCarthy]

While we are on the subject of toroids, I would like to point out something I 
have encountered while up-grading pre-built K2's... Toroids can be wound 
backwards, and when this is done to vertically mounted toroids, the wire leads, 
as they exit the center of the core, are on the wrong side of the toroid...The 
"fix" is to pass the wire under the core to the other side so it reaches the 
solder pad...This adds another turn to the toroid, 1/2 a turn at each 
end...Also, the toroid is not secure and is free to move around which might 
result in wire fatigue, especially in a portable, mobile, or back-packing 
environment where vibration is present...

One of the radios I up-graded had evidently been dropped and landed upside 
down...The miswound toroids were standing up off the board by about 1/2 inch 
and had rotated 1/2 turn because the wires were pulled taut by the G force...

If a toroid has been wound backwards, it is best to strip it and rewind it 
correctly...

Jerry, wa2dkg
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Re: [Elecraft] I love toroids

[Fred Jensen]

My experience is that the diagrams in the Elecraft manuals (and PCB 
layouts) are intrinsically right-handed, and if you are left-handed as I 
am and don't really study the task well, you are likely to wind it 
backwards.  For each new set of toroids I need to wind, I usually 
practice a couple of times with some loose hookup wire to make sure I 
still remember the moves.


If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ... 
each pass thru the donut is a turn.  But then, my memory serves me less 
and less these days.


73,

Fred K6DGW
Auburn CA CM98lw

Jeremiah McCarthy wrote:

While we are on the subject of toroids, I would like to point out

> something I have encountered while up-grading pre-built K2's...
> toroids can be wound backwards, ...

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RE: [Elecraft] I love toroids

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ... 
each pass thru the donut is a turn.  But then, my memory serves me less 
and less these days.

---

That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid. 

As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1! One
toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding is
reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
with the pads on the board. 

Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With
consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern himself
with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB. 

Ron AC7AC


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Re: [Elecraft] I love toroids

[Robert Friess]

Maybe we who use the correct hand, i.e. the left one, should unite and 
demand left-handed pc layouts and manuals as a no-cost option.


73,
Bob, N6CM

- Original Message - 
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Elecraft Reflector'" 
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] I love toroids



Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
each pass thru the donut is a turn.  But then, my memory serves me less
and less these days.

---

That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid.

As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1! 
One

toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding is
reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
with the pads on the board.

Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. 
With

consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern himself
with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB.

Ron AC7AC


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Re: [Elecraft] I love toroids

[Jim W7RY]

I disagree with the left hand right hand issue. I'm very right handed and 
wound the toroids of my 1st K2 back words. However, when winding the set 
for my current K2, I had to make a concise effort to wind them correctly 
and it was awkward to do so.


BTW, I travel frequently for work so I brought all of the toroids and wire 
on my recent trip. I sat at the desk in the hotel room and wound them all. 
I did not strip and tin the leads... To much smoke. I was afraid of setting 
off the smoke detectors.


Hey Elecraft! Why not put a separate section into the manual that describes 
what core, what L or T number and the number of turns on each core. That 
way, one can "pre-wind" all of the toroidal coils at the same time and not 
have to stop and wind?



Just my 2cents worth.

73
Jim W7RY
K2 4914. (Heading down the finish line)

PS my K2 is now operational as a receiver on 40 meters. Works great!




At 09:44 AM 6/11/2005, Robert Friess wrote:
Maybe we who use the correct hand, i.e. the left one, should unite and 
demand left-handed pc layouts and manuals as a no-cost option.


73,
Bob, N6CM

- Original Message - From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Elecraft Reflector'" 
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] I love toroids



Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
each pass thru the donut is a turn.  But then, my memory serves me less
and less these days.

---

That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid.

As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1! One
toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding is
reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
with the pads on the board.

Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With
consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern himself
with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB.

Ron AC7AC


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Re: [Elecraft] I love toroids

[JAMES BRASSELL]

I, also, am very right handed.  I wound the toroids without much thought 
about the 'right way'.  My K2 #4901 is running perfectly and checked out at 
each alignment stage.  Maybe I wound them 'correctly', but I don't really 
think whether the lead comes over the top of the core or from under it makes 
much difference.  The difference would occur if you had more or less turns 
going through the core.  I've tried reading the inductance of a toroid with 
a wire just sitting on top or under the core and as you may have guessed, 
the inductance is lower than I can measure with a darn good DMM.


My 2 cents.

73

Jim, K4ZMV
- Original Message - 
From: "Jim W7RY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] I love toroids


I disagree with the left hand right hand issue. I'm very right handed and 
wound the toroids of my 1st K2 back words. However, when winding the set 
for my current K2, I had to make a concise effort to wind them correctly 
and it was awkward to do so.


BTW, I travel frequently for work so I brought all of the toroids and wire 
on my recent trip. I sat at the desk in the hotel room and wound them all. 
I did not strip and tin the leads... To much smoke. I was afraid of 
setting off the smoke detectors.


Hey Elecraft! Why not put a separate section into the manual that 
describes what core, what L or T number and the number of turns on each 
core. That way, one can "pre-wind" all of the toroidal coils at the same 
time and not have to stop and wind?



Just my 2cents worth.

73
Jim W7RY
K2 4914. (Heading down the finish line)

PS my K2 is now operational as a receiver on 40 meters. Works great!




At 09:44 AM 6/11/2005, Robert Friess wrote:
Maybe we who use the correct hand, i.e. the left one, should unite and 
demand left-handed pc layouts and manuals as a no-cost option.


73,
Bob, N6CM

- Original Message - From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Elecraft Reflector'" 
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] I love toroids



Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
each pass thru the donut is a turn.  But then, my memory serves me less
and less these days.

---

That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid.

As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1! 
One

toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding 
is

reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
with the pads on the board.

Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. 
With

consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern 
himself

with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB.

Ron AC7AC


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[Elecraft] KPA100

[Brent Sutphin WB4X]

I recently built and installed a KPA100 on my K2.  It works great but today 
on twenty meters I got a high current message and the amp shut down.  I have 
the driver current set for 4 amps.  Any suggestions?


Brent   WB4X 



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA100

[Vic Rosenthal]

Brent Sutphin WB4X wrote:
I recently built and installed a KPA100 on my K2.  It works great but 
today on twenty meters I got a high current message and the amp shut 
down.  I have the driver current set for 4 amps.  Any suggestions?


First check the current at 10 watts (amp off).  If it's reasonable, then 
you have the 'hard to drive on 20-30 meters' problem.  The last thing I 
heard was that C81 and C82 in the KPA100 can be increased to 5600 pf to 
help.  However, I don't fully understand this, so I suggest you ask Gary 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.


If the current is high-ish at 10 watts, make sure the 20 meter bandpass 
filter trimmers are not at maximum capacity.  I had to parallel some 
small capacitors with them to get the adjustment within range.


What's 'normal' current?  I'm drawing about 3.2 amps on 20 meters now, 
less on other bands.  This of course is with the KPA100 running 100 
watts, measured by tappinf DISPLAY.


--
73
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno, CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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RE: [Elecraft] 160m

[Robert Tellefsen]

Wow, those are some serious crystal sets.
All by one person?
73, Bob N6WG

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of kc5wa
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List
Subject: [Elecraft] 160m


would a crystal set  ant like this 
 work as a 160 rx ant


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA100

[Ken K3IU]

Hi Brent:

To add to what Vic said, make sure that you have the power calibration done 
properly. Also, one of our British friends recently replaced the C80/C81 
caps AND the R19 and R20 resistors with locally procurred 4700 pf and 1.5 
Ohm 2W resistors and all of the problems went away. It is my understanding 
that  the folks at Elecraft are working with the designer to sort this out.


By my count there seems to be now 7-8 instances of this problem with the 
KPA100... all shipped out since about Feb/Mar time frame.


Please do let Gary know you are having this problem. I suspect that the 
more folks that have it and report it, the quicker it will be resolved .


73,
Ken Wagner K3IU
~
At 03:54 PM 6/11/2005, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

Brent Sutphin WB4X wrote:
I recently built and installed a KPA100 on my K2.  It works great but 
today on twenty meters I got a high current message and the amp shut 
down.  I have the driver current set for 4 amps.  Any suggestions?


First check the current at 10 watts (amp off).  If it's reasonable, then 
you have the 'hard to drive on 20-30 meters' problem.  The last thing I 
heard was that C81 and C82 in the KPA100 can be increased to 5600 pf to 
help.  However, I don't fully understand this, so I suggest you ask Gary 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.


If the current is high-ish at 10 watts, make sure the 20 meter bandpass 
filter trimmers are not at maximum capacity.  I had to parallel some small 
capacitors with them to get the adjustment within range.


What's 'normal' current?  I'm drawing about 3.2 amps on 20 meters now, 
less on other bands.  This of course is with the KPA100 running 100 watts, 
measured by tappinf DISPLAY.


--
73
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno, CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Re: [Elecraft] I love toroids

[Nigel KC8NHF/G8IFF]

Jeremiah McCarthy wrote:


This adds another turn to the toroid, 1/2 a turn at each end..

No. You can't have half a turn on a toroid. It's only an extrsa turn if 
it passes through the middle. You can do as you please with the ends.




If a toroid has been wound backwards, it is best to strip it and rewind it 
correctly...


Agreed.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Nigel A. Gunn. 59 Beadlemead, Milton Keynes, MK6 4HF, England. 
Tel +44 (0)1908 604004

e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wwwhttp://www.ngunn.net  or  http://www.ngunn.demon.co.uk
Amateur radio stations  G8IFF, KC8NHF
Member of  AMSAT-UK #182, ARRL, GQRP Club, QRPARCI, SOC #548  RAYNET
  Flying Pig #385, Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA  LM-1691,
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


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[Elecraft] PALOMAR WATT METER M-840 wanted

[Able2fly]

If anyone has a Palomar Engineers M-840 surplus to their needs, please  
contact me off list.
Thanks.
 
Bill K3UJ
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[Elecraft] stranger than real life

[mc]

When studying the HAM workbooks from ARRL,  I found a few inconsistency in 
statements,  example one of many: Is there a reason why HAM's use 40 meters (or 
other band) at 7.125 kHz (or other frequency) then say the antenna should be 
34.5 feet

would it not be easier to keep everything in metric

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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Earl W Cunningham]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:56:55 -0400 "mc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

"When studying the HAM workbooks from ARRL,  I found a few inconsistency
in statements,  example one of many: Is there a reason why HAM's use 40
meters (or other band) at 7.125 kHz (or other frequency) then say the
antenna should be 34.5 feet"
==
Since day one, the bands have been described by their wavelength in
meters, hence "40 meters".

"7.125 kHz" is clearly a typo error.  It should say "7.125 MHz".

For some years now, ARRL publications have gone metric.  Antenna lengths
given as "34.5 feet" would have "10.5m" in parentheses immediatelly after
it.

73, de Earl, K6SE
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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[John R. Lonigro]

Like it or not, the US is still using feet and yards, not centimeters 
and meters.  The shortwave bands have traditionally been specified using 
the metric system.  However, we don't typically have meter sticks 
handy.  So if the ARRL would say to use an antenna 10.52 meters long, 
the first thing most hams would have to do is convert to feet.  So why 
not specify it in feet to start with?  It's inconsistent, but sometimes 
handy to mix units.

Just my opinion,

John AA0VE

mc wrote:


When studying the HAM workbooks from ARRL,  I found a few inconsistency in 
statements,  example one of many: Is there a reason why HAM's use 40 meters (or 
other band) at 7.125 kHz (or other frequency) then say the antenna should be 
34.5 feet

would it not be easier to keep everything in metric

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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Steve Lawrence]

On Jun 11, 2005, at 5:12 PM, John R. Lonigro wrote:

So if the ARRL would say to use an antenna 10.52 meters long, the first 
thing most hams would have to do is convert to feet.  So why not 
specify it in feet to start with?  It's inconsistent, but sometimes 
handy to mix units.


__

Mixing units is not always benign.

"September 1999: NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter because a 
Lockheed Martin engineering team used English units of measurement 
while the agency's team used the more conventional metric system for a 
key spacecraft operation. "


73 - Steve WB6RSE

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RE: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

"mc" wrote:
>would it not be easier to keep everything in metric

---

I've been a technical and scientific writer since the early 1960's. In all
that time I've worked in metric right here in the USA. It's what most of the
engineering/scientific community lives by. 

The simple fact is the STANDARD AMERICAN system of weights and measures is
METRIC! It has been so since the middle 1800's when our Congress adopted the
metric system as our official system. What they did not do was to make it
illegal to continue to use the clumsy, crazy "American/English" system. (40
lashes for each of 'em with a wet noodle!)  So, stubborn Yanks that we are,
we still measure by the King's thumb, etc. 

>From time to time some numbskull tries to mix the two. The most famous case
is when someone got confused between the two while they were configuring the
main mirror for the Hubble telescope and produced a billion dollar blunder
that was only solved much later by some equally expensive correction optics.
It didn't help that QA missed the error too. 

My XYL is Dutch, so we live and cook and work in Metric here in Oregon
country, and it's great.  

Still, I am reminded of just how powerful early training can be. For
example, I know exactly what I'm doing when I set my soldering iron at 400C
and what to expect if I touch something that's 50C, but I still have to stop
and think about whether I'll need a jacket if it's 15C out. I was raised
perceiving the weather in Fahrenheit, and after all these years I still have
to stop and think for a moment. That's a clue about just how powerful early
training can be. 

Ron AC7AC



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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Matt Osborn]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:44:53 -0700, "Ron D'Eau Claire"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>The simple fact is the STANDARD AMERICAN system of weights and measures is
>METRIC! It has been so since the middle 1800's when our Congress adopted the
>metric system as our official system. What they did not do was to make it
>illegal to continue to use the clumsy, crazy "American/English" system. (40
>lashes for each of 'em with a wet noodle!)  So, stubborn Yanks that we are,
>we still measure by the King's thumb, etc. 

The first segment of my right index finger is one inch. My right foot,
approximates one foot, my spread arms extend one yard.

To replace those with arbitrary measurements (simply to make the math
easier?) seems absurd to me.  I just bought a calculator.
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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Steve Lawrence]

On Jun 11, 2005, at 6:36 PM, Matt Osborn wrote:

To replace those with arbitrary measurements (simply to make the math
easier?) seems absurd to me.  I just bought a calculator.


And what happens when your battery goes dead?  ;-)

73 - Steve WB6RSE

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RE: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[W3FPR - Don Wilhelm]

They call it the 'English' system, but even the English folks now measure
things in the metric system - only we Americans are the holdouts to the more
convenient and sane metric system.

For myself, I have a good concept of how long a foot (or yard, or inch) is,
and I don't have that same familiarity with a meter or centimeter even
though I have worked with metric units in engineering circles for over 30
years of my life.  The situation will only change if metric is legislated,
and the entire machine tool industry completes the conversion that was
talked about back in the late 60s and early 70s - it never fully happened,
so we must live with a mixed system until something BIG happens - like
govermental decree to eliminate the old system.  I must still have 'English'
and metric size wrenches in my toolbox, and my toolboxes would be much
lighter with only the metric sizes --- Long Sigh  I don't expect
resolution in my remaining lifetime.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -Original Message-
>
> When studying the HAM workbooks from ARRL,  I found a few
> inconsistency in statements,  example one of many: Is there a
> reason why HAM's use 40 meters (or other band) at 7.125 kHz (or
> other frequency) then say the antenna should be 34.5 feet
>
> would it not be easier to keep everything in metric
>
>
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[Elecraft] K1 toroids.

[Yves Dussault]

 I recently completed the construction of K2 N4 4875 and it works very well!
Last year, I built K1 nr 1875 and I now realize that I wound ALL its toroids
with one turn too much!
But K1 works OK
Would I gain anything by correcting my mistake and rewinding the toroids
with the proper number of turns?

What do our experts think?
 
 

Yves Dussault-VE2ATD
Laval, Québec.
450 661-0768___
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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Dave G.]

 > To replace those with arbitrary measurements (simply to make
> the math easier?) seems absurd to me.  I just bought a
> calculator. 
A group of French scientists decided that 1/1,000,000th of 
the distance from the north pole to the equator would be the 
new standard for all of Europe.  I presume this was NOT 
arbitrary...

 > And what happens when your battery goes dead?  ;-)
I find that a pencil an paper can still be used to find 
answers...

Quote from the July 1971 issue of "Datamation"
"The computer is down!! does anyone here remember how to 
think??"

Dave KK7SS

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RE: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Dave G.]

Don,

As a lover and rebuilder of old cars, I find I have ASF, BSF, 
Whitworth, BA, Metric and adjustable wrenches (spanners).
Not to mention Bristol keys, Torx wrenches and other efforts 
at 'modernisation'
But my garage would seem a lonely place without them :-))
Only Metric??? Heavens forbid I might find the right 
wrench on the first try... unforgiveable!!!

Dave KK7SS

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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Vic Rosenthal]

Matt Osborn wrote:


To replace those with arbitrary measurements (simply to make the math
easier?) seems absurd to me.  I just bought a calculator.


Not to mention that the math is not always easier.  12, the number of 
inches in a foot, is evenly divided by 2, 3, 4, and 6; while 10 only has 
2 and 5.  36, the number of inches in a yard, is evenly divided by 2, 3, 
4, 6, 9, 12, and 18; but 100, the number of centimeters in a meter is 
only divided by 2, 5, 10, 25, and 50.


--
73
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno, CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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FW: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Dan Barker]

and 4 and 20 (and 1 and 100).

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456


but 100, the number of centimeters in a meter is only divided by 2, 5, 10,
25, and 50.


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[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net announcement

[Kevin Rock]

Good Evening,
   A new week is here so we can try the air waves once more.  The Elecraft 
CW Net is now two years old so we can light a couple candles and 
celebrate.  If you would like to join us please remember there are very 
few rules involved.  Just get on the air and use CW are about the only two 
there are.  Oh, have fun is another ;)


Please join us:

Sunday 2300z (Sunday 4pm PDT) 14050 kHz
Monday 0200z (Sunday 7pm PDT)  7045 kHz

Visit our web site: http://ecn.visionseer.com/ for net details.  Thank you 
Dan.


I hope to hear you tomorrow evening on 20 or 40 meters,
   Kevin.  KD5ONS


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RE: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Craig Rairdin]

> Mixing units is not always benign.

> "September 1999: NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter because a 
> Lockheed Martin engineering team used English units of measurement 
> while the agency's team used the more conventional metric system for 
> a key spacecraft operation. "

I would argue this is an error in communication or specification. It could
happen if one team used inches and another used feet.

> The first segment of my right index finger is one inch. My right 
> foot, approximates one foot, my spread arms extend one yard.

The distance spanned by your outspread arms approximates your height. You
have huge feet for a "little person".

> They call it the 'English' system, but even the English folks now measure
> things in the metric system - only we Americans are the holdouts to the 
> more convenient and sane metric system.

Speed limits in England are in miles per hour, and distances on highway
signs are in miles. And they drive on the left. They're more screwed up than
we are.

Craig
NZ0R
K1 #1966
K2 #4941


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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Fred Jensen]

> For myself, I have a good concept of how long a foot (or yard, or
> inch) is, and I don't have that same familiarity with a meter or
> centimeter even though I have worked with metric units in engineering
> circles for over 30 years of my life.

Hmmm ... I think everyone's experience is different.  In the mid 60's, 
in another part of the world from where I live now, everything was 
metric and I learned it.  I really didn't care about what was divisible 
by what (although I graduated in Math, and you'd think I would be), but 
ever since and still now, I tend to think in metric terms and convert 
the other way.  My speedometer reads in MPH, but it also has KPH.  Ask 
me how far to the tracks of the Transcontintal Railroad from our house, 
and I'd probably give you the answer in approximate meters.  I know what 
a meter is, I know a kilogram, and it does work.


I wonder how much it matters how it was defined and re-defined, the 
metric system is the worldwide standard, and we hams have been using it 
for years.


YMMV

Fred K6DGW
Auburn CA CM98lw

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Re: FW: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Vic Rosenthal]

Dan Barker wrote:

and 4 and 20 (and 1 and 100).


OK, I missed 4 and 20, but I was making a practical point, not a 
mathematical one so I deliberately left 1 and 100 out!


--
73
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno, CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Matt Osborn]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:38:04 -0700, Steve Lawrence
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>On Jun 11, 2005, at 6:36 PM, Matt Osborn wrote:
>
>To replace those with arbitrary measurements (simply to make the math
>easier?) seems absurd to me.  I just bought a calculator.
>
>
>And what happens when your battery goes dead?  ;-)
>
>73 - Steve WB6RSE
>

Measure things with my finger, arm and feet?
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Re: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Paul Gates]

Don, I don't think the metric system is sane!!! I have found out what 5 and 
8 meters is when it comes to the length of antennas but I now have the 
conversion bookmarked in favorites!!
Paul Gates
Elecraft K1 #231
XG1
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
And the devil's name is Alzheimer's!


- Original Message - 
From: "W3FPR - Don Wilhelm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "mc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "elecraft group" 

Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 10:10 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] stranger than real life


> They call it the 'English' system, but even the English folks now measure
> things in the metric system - only we Americans are the holdouts to the 
> more
> convenient and sane metric system.
>
> For myself, I have a good concept of how long a foot (or yard, or inch) 
> is,
> and I don't have that same familiarity with a meter or centimeter even
> though I have worked with metric units in engineering circles for over 30
> years of my life.  The situation will only change if metric is legislated,
> and the entire machine tool industry completes the conversion that was
> talked about back in the late 60s and early 70s - it never fully happened,
> so we must live with a mixed system until something BIG happens - like
> govermental decree to eliminate the old system.  I must still have 
> 'English'
> and metric size wrenches in my toolbox, and my toolboxes would be much
> lighter with only the metric sizes --- Long Sigh  I don't expect
> resolution in my remaining lifetime.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> > -Original Message-
> >
> > When studying the HAM workbooks from ARRL,  I found a few
> > inconsistency in statements,  example one of many: Is there a
> > reason why HAM's use 40 meters (or other band) at 7.125 kHz (or
> > other frequency) then say the antenna should be 34.5 feet
> >
> > would it not be easier to keep everything in metric
> >
> >
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.8 - Release Date: 6/11/2005
>
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> 
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RE: [Elecraft] stranger than real life

[Craig Rairdin]

> Not to mention that the math is not always easier.  12, the number of 
> inches in a foot, is evenly divided by 2, 3, 4, and 6; while 10 only 
> has 2 and 5.  36, the number of inches in a yard, is evenly divided by 
> 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 12, and 18; but 100, the number of centimeters in a 
> meter is only divided by 2, 5, 10, 25, and 50.

I realize that 10 fingers and 10 toes goes back to the beginning of
creation, but when it comes to measuring things you have to give some credit
to the Summerians and Babylonians and their sexagesimal (base 60) system on
which practically every system of measurement other than the relatively
recent and mathematically contrived metric system is based.

There are 60s, multiples of 60s, and factors of 60s everywhere: 60 seconds
in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, about 30 days in a
month, 12 months in a year, 360 degrees in a circle, 60 minutes in a degree,
12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 6000 feet in a nautical mile, 12
pennies in a shilling, etc. A lot of this stuff is 4000 years old. A system
of thinking doesn't last that long without some inherent merit.

Tens are nice because we've all been taught a number system based on 10. But
there's something beautiful about numbers with so many natural divisors (1,
2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 all evenly divide 60). It seems almost "handed down by
God" as opposed to the 10-based metric system which has the feeling of
"invented by humans". This "inventedness" of the metric system is what makes
it seem unnatural to me. 

OTOH I have to admire these simple equalities: One milliliter of water
weighs one gram and occupies one square centimeter.

I don't think about converting between systems as much as using the
appropriate system for the context. For example, when I'm flying my airplane
I measure distance in nautical miles and speed in nautical miles per hour
(knots). It's awkward to translate to statute miles and MPH, but that's not
the reason I don't do it. The reason I don't convert is that it's not
necessary (unless I'm trying to tell a passenger how fast we're going, in
which case I read the MPH scale on the airspeed indicator). In the airplane
I measure outside air temperature in Celsius but cylinder head temperature
in Fahrenheit.

When I put up a 40M dipole, I measure its length in feet. No big deal.
"Meters" describes wavelength and "feet" describes wire length. While the
two are related they're for all practical purposes measurements of two
different things, at least the way I look at it. 40M is the setting on the
band switch on my radio. 66 feet is the approximate length of my antenna. I
don't see the conflict.

I don't see the necessity of adopting one world standard of measurement any
more than I see the necessity of adopting Esperanto as the Global Language.
One chooses one's measuring system by context, just as one chooses the
language in which to speak by the context of the conversation. 

Craig
NZ0R
K1 #1966
K2 #4941

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