Re: [Elecraft] KAF2 ( built ) to trade for other k2 parts

[Ken Chandler]

Paul
As mike said keep it & use it, wouldn't be without mine.

Ken..G0ORH  K2, K3, P3.

Sent from my iPhone

 


On 27 Aug 2010, at 22:30, "Mike Harris"  wrote:

> G'day,
> 
> The KAF2 is worth fitting if only for the low pass filter it 
> introduces into the audio chain.  Knocks out a lot of hi and 
> makes both CW and SSB easier to listen to.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike VP8NO
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Paul Locker" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 12:53 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] KAF2 ( built ) to trade for other k2 parts
> 
> 
>> All,
>> I recently got a used k2 with an assembled kaf2.  The kaf2 is not 
>> in the k2, but
>> is assembled.  I doubt I will be using the kaf2 and thus it's just 
>> sitting.
>> Does anyone need or want a kaf2?  I'm looking for any other parts 
>> pieces for a
>> k2.
>> 
>> Paul
>> K4PML
> 
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[Elecraft] K3 #4590

[Simon Faulkner]

Ahhh, proper engineering.

My daughter, Lucy,  and I constructed the kit in around 8 hours.

Everything fitted together beautifully.

It fired up and worked right off the bench - lovely.

Keep up the good work...

Simon 2E0SCF

-- 
Simon Faulkner  01538 303 900 
Staffordshire Moorlands

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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Jim Brown wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:08:16 +0100, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
>
>>However, the AIM4170 is a higher-level instrument that is capable of
>>being re-calibrated to include the effects of an attached test fixture
>>(which then becomes "part of the instrument"). With care, it seems that
>>the 4170 can be used to make quite accurate vector impedance
>>measurements on chokes. The next step, having calibrated the instrument,
>
>Yes, the AIM is a high quality instrument, but one tool does not fit all
>needs. It is, in essence, measuring S11, which means that very small
>errors in the measurement can cause very large errors in the result. The
>only GOOD way to measure a choke is by measuring S21 -- that is, as the
>series element of a voltage divider.
>

I measured the same chokes in both types of test jig, reflection and 
transmission, and neither method has any clear advantage over the other. 
Both methods have potential problems with variations in series 
inductance and shunt capacitance (the latter in parallel with the 
choke). In both cases, everything depends on the care taken to maintain 
the test jig in exactly the same geometry, first for calibration and 
then for all subsequent measurements.

Among other things, this requires the construction of special reference 
standards which allow the instrument to be calibrated without changing 
the geometry of the test jig.


>The errors I have seen in choke measurements show up as lead capacitance
>that is not precisely cancelled, which results in an incorrect
>determination of the resonant frequency. The error is small for low
>frequency, low-Q chokes, but can get very large at increasing frequency,
>and for higher Q chokes.
>

As I said previously, any choke that is liable to this kind of 
measurement error will have exactly the same problems in a practical 
installation - only far, far worse - resulting in unreliable 
performance. That is a very good reason to avoid high-Q (frequency 
selective) chokes and choose a more broadband design.

>In the materials on my website, there are graphs showing the effect of
>the 0.4 pF stray capacitance of my own test fixture on a very low Q choke
>(Q=0.4) wound to cover a tri-band beam (20-10M). It shifts the resonant
>frequency about 25%.
>The error is insignificant for #31 chokes wound for
>40M and below.
>
>The error becomes very bad with a higher Q choke, like one wound with
>Fair-Rite #61 or #67 (Q around 10).

That is correct: on 14MHz and above (and especially at VHF), even a tiny 
change in shunt capacitance can move the resonant frequency by a large 
amount. That creates an "interesting" measurement problem - but much 
more important is the effect of uncontrolled stray capacitance when that 
same choke is installed on the antenna.

In practical installations, it means that we cannot rely on resonance 
alone to provide a large choking impedance, because the resonant 
frequency of the choke will move when the choke is installed.


>The AIM data I've seen shifted the
>resonant frequency of a choke like that by a factor of nearly 2:1. The
>AIM measured the resonance of choke as being around 16 MHz that was
>actually resonant above 30 MHz. And, because the resonance moved and the
>loss of the material varies with frequency, the peak in the choking
>impedance also was in error, but by a smaller amount.
>

There is no reason for the AIM to have that problem. Either the user was 
allowing the test setup to vary, or the AIM had never been correctly 
calibrated with the jig in place.




-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[David Cutter]

I like measuring things in the lab and doing the calculations, so we can 
avoid blowing things up, wasted time and disappointment, but I also like to 
put the thing into practice and do relevant measurements in situ.

I'm building yet another current meter (others have grown legs and wondered 
off somewhere) to "measure" braid current with various chokes.  I've ordered 
some of those nice obrounds from Farnell.

One thing that interests me is that we never used chokes and baluns "in the 
old days"  circa 50s and 60s - how did we live without them?  Not many beams 
around my way in those days; I'm more interested in keeping noise out of the 
receiver.

David
G3UNA 

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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[Ian White GM3SEK]

David Cutter wrote:
>I like measuring things in the lab and doing the calculations, so we 
>can avoid blowing things up, wasted time and disappointment, but I also 
>like to put the thing into practice and do relevant measurements in situ.
>
>I'm building yet another current meter (others have grown legs and 
>wondered off somewhere) to "measure" braid current with various chokes.

A clamp-on RF current meter is the *only* way to measure how effectively 
a choke is working in the actual installation. It's one of those things 
that is so easy to make, and then you wonder where it had been all your 
life!  (That is also why borrowed current meters don't come back.)

>
>One thing that interests me is that we never used chokes and baluns "in 
>the old days"  circa 50s and 60s - how did we live without them?

I think we lived in ignorance... but also feedline radiation/pickup was 
far less important in those days because there was far less electronics 
of other kinds.

>Not many beams around my way in those days; I'm more interested in 
>keeping noise out of the receiver.
>
These days, that is often the most important reason to use feedline 
chokes.


-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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[Elecraft] [K3] High internal noise level

[Pete Smith]

Ever since I got my K3, I have been a little surprised at what seems to 
be a relatively high noise level with no antenna connected (or on a 
dummy load).  Very unscientifically described, on 20m it registers 1-2 
bars on the S meter, and the background is quite loud on the speaker 
with the audio gain set at 12 o'clock (RF gain full, AGC - fast, 
bandwidth 200Hz with a 500 Hz roofing filter in, no noise blanker or 
noise reduction).

The radio seems to perform fine, and I have not had the feeling that I 
was missing many signals because they were being masked by receiver 
noise.  Nonetheless, I wonder how this compares with others' experience, 
or with the factory expectation?

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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Re: [Elecraft] [K2] No Transmit Power

[Don Wilhelm]

  Brian,

On your RF Probe, that 200 mV is noise pickup.  Do you have a relatively 
short ground wire (4 to 6 inches) with the alligator clip connected to 
the board near the tip?  That alligator clip should connect to one of 
the ground loops you installed on the K2 boards.  A short grounding wire 
like that should reduce the noise pickup level - if it does not, check 
the soldering.  The DMM reading should go to a very low millivolt level 
when the ground wire and the tip are connected together.

If you have a 'scope, it will give you good readings if you use a 10X 
probe and both the probe and 'scope have adequate frequency ratings for 
the frequency in use.  In general, a 'scope and probe can be used for 
reliable amplitude measurement if their frequency rating is 5 times the 
frequency of the signal.  It is still usable above that frequency for 
relative RF voltage measurements.  Remember that the 'scope will display 
the peak to peak amplitude (the RF Probe will indicate RMS values), so 
multiply the 'expected' voltages in the manual by 2.8 to obtain the 
corresponding peak to peak amplitude.

Regarding the DC voltage at CB U8 pin 2, read the entire paragraph 
carefully. it is high because your K2 power output is lower than the 
requested value (reason "a" of the two reasons listed). Since you have 
checked the RF Detector, go to the end of the paragraph and do what it 
says "If you can't find a problem with the RF Detector, continue with 
the next signal tracing section (transmit mixer, etc)."

Check the Transmit stages in the order listed - if the stage is working, 
the RF Voltage will be HIGHER than the expected value listed (that stage 
is trying to drive harder to increase the power output).
When you come to the stage where the RF Voltage is significantly lower 
than the expected value, that is the output of the stage with the 
problem - stop and analyze that stage - Do the DC Voltage measurements 
associated with that stage, then move on to the schematic armed with 
that voltage information and see which component is likely to cause that 
problem.  Hint:  it is usually NOT the transistor.

That process is consistent with the 3 steps for any generalized 
troubleshooting process.
1) Find the failing stage.
2) Make measurements of that stage
3) Analyze the circuit to determine what is causing abnormalities in the 
measurements.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/27/2010 11:41 PM, Brian Denley wrote:
> I have built the RF probe but I am unable to get any signal less than about
> 200 mV even when not touching anything.  I have tried three DMMMs with no
> better luck.   I do know that I am transmitting something because I can pick
> up the transceiver signal easily on any of my HF receivers.  I have been
> able to establish that pin 2 of U8 on the Control Board reads 5.0 volts key
> down and that means (according to page 14) that I should check the
> components around the RF detector...and I will as soon as I can find a way
> sense RF.  Maybe I will switch to the scope tomorrow and try that.  Any
> other ideas will be welcome.
>
> BTW, I have checked the RF detector again and again.  It's a pretty simple
> circuit and the diode is oriented correctly.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Yamaha CM-500 (was Heil Elite thread)

[David Woolley (E.L)]

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> Modern audio outputs are generally act like current sources.

Voltage (i.e. low impedance) not current.

> The total power output based on the ability of the amplifier
> to provide current at the supply voltage.
> 
> The headphone amplifier in the K3 is an LM4811 specified for
> 105mW (continuous average power) into a 16 Ohm load and 70
> mW into a 32 Ohm load.  However, that does not tell the whole

I'd suggest that 70mW into an efficient headphone, tightly coupled to 
your ear is plenty loud enough to destroy your hearing.

Hearing aids can drive to the threshold of pain with only about 2mW of 
DC input, including the power for the DSP chip (1.8mA at 1.4 volts for 
power aids, 1.3mA, for normal aids).

-- 
David Woolley
"we do not overly restrict the subject matter on the list, and we
encourage postings on a wide range of amateur radio related topics"
List Guidelines 
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Re: [Elecraft] Externmal ATU

[Phil & Debbie Salas]

"...MFJ released a new Firmware for the MFJ-998 dated 08/02/2010. ..."

The MFJ-998 wasn't interrupting the amp-key line when it tuned from memory. 
I guess it was assumed that this happend very quickly so this would not 
cause a problem.  However, as the relays operate you can have a momentary 
high VSWR condition.  So this will help.  HOWEVER - it takes a finite period 
of time for the tuner to "decide" that the VSWR is high and to measure the 
incoming frequency.  So during this "decision" process (when you change 
bands or antennas), you could have a high VSWR presented to the amplifier 
before the amp-enable line is interrupted and the new tuner values are 
snapped in place.   There are four ways around this:

1) With the tuner in full auto, flip the amp to standby and hit TUNE on the 
K3 when you change bands/antennas.  If the VSWR is greater than the MFJ-998 
programmed "start tuning" value, the tuner will tune.  Then flip the amp to 
operate.  This is what I do now (K3 tune output set for 15 watts).
2) Provide band data to the tuner so it tracks band changes before you even 
transmit.  Not supported by the current MFJ-998.  And this requires more 
untelligence if you have more than one antenna/band.
3) Leave the tuner in manual mode and press TUNE on the tuner when you 
change bands or antennas.  This interrupts the amp-key line before tuning 
starts.  But this requires a TUNE REQUEST input to the K3 which is not 
available.
4) Use resonant antennas on all bands and forget the tuner!

Phil - AD5X 

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[Elecraft] KRC2

[David Heinsohn]

I have a full house QRP K2, plus two transverters.  I was looking at 
the Elecraft website the other day and noted that the KRC2 was intended 
for the K2.  Based on the title I thought I understood what it was 
intended to do.  Then looking at the description I decided I had no idea 
what it was really intended to do.

   So, for those out there that use the KRC2, esp. with a K2, what are 
you using it for?  Please be fairly specific.  What have you found that 
it won't do that you need to have done?  What will it do that you're not 
doing yet?

Thanks,
73
David
KD0R

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] High internal noise level

[Bill W4ZV]

Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
> 
> Ever since I got my K3, I have been a little surprised at what seems to 
> be a relatively high noise level with no antenna connected (or on a 
> dummy load).  Very unscientifically described, on 20m it registers 1-2 
> bars on the S meter, and the background is quite loud on the speaker 
> with the audio gain set at 12 o'clock (RF gain full, AGC - fast, 
> bandwidth 200Hz with a 500 Hz roofing filter in, no noise blanker or 
> noise reduction).
> 

Pete this is a common issue for new users.  It's actually not unique to the
K3...Orion had the identical issue for the same reasons.

1.  Your gain settings are incorrect.  If AF Gain is at 12 o'clock it's too
high, and RF Gain should almost never be at maximum.  My settings are
typically AF Gain at 9-10 o'clock with RF Gain around 1-3 o'clock (but that
depends on the specific antenna and band).  This has been covered many times
and Barry N1EU has a nice explanation including a summary of how to set both
gains here:

http://n1eu.com/K3/K3_agcgain.htm  (scroll to Gain Adjustment)


2.  The K3's S-meter is more accurate than most rigs, especially at the low
end of the meter scale.  Typical FT-1000 meters will read S1 at a -104 dBm
level.

http://www.n6rk.com/FT1000_S_meter.doc  

By contrast, a properly calibrated (and accurate) K3 meter will read S4 at
the same level! 

http://www.n6rk.com/S_unit_definitions.doc


The combination of #1 above (setting RF Gain to max) and #2 (an accurate
meter which indicates higher than many rigs at low levels) leads many new
users to think the K3 is noisy.  In fact it isn't but we need to learn how
to properly set gain to take maximum advantage of the K3's dynamic range. 
K3NA's version is very detailed, but N1EU's version above is much simpler.

BTW for those of you with a P3, setting it's Ref Lvl just at or slightly
above the noise floor is the equivalent of what you're doing in the K3
above.  When done properly with the K3, you'll hear weak signals at the
noise floor and still have the full ~100 dB of dynamic range above that
level.  If you set RF Gain too high, the rig will sound noisy and you'll be
wasting some dynamic range by extending the K3's low end below band noise
levels.

73,  Bill
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] High internal noise level

[Don Wilhelm]

  Pete,

Don't tell me we are going to get into this "the K3 is noisy" discussion 
again - it is one of those that comes around once in a while.  The fact 
is that the K3 has adequate gain to enable the user to hear its internal 
noise floor - it can also hear everything above that noise floor.  If 
connecting an antenna results in an increase in the noise level (you are 
then hearing the atmospheric noise picked up by the antenna), then the 
internal noise floor will not get in the way of hearing weak signals.

The AGC settings will influence this effect.   When you disconnect the 
antenna, the AGC sets the K3 to full gain.  If you have the pre-amp on, 
you will be hearing the output noise level of the preamp too.  The MDS 
of a proper functioning K3 is very good, and that is the indicator of 
the signal level which can be discerned above the receiver noise floor.  
If you believe your K3 may be sub-par, I encourage you to use an 
Elecraft XG2 signal generator or a suitable low level generator to 
measure the MDS of your K3.

A 12 o'clock setting on the AF Gain is higher than usual, so yes, in 
that condition, you will begin to hear the internal noise floor of the 
receiver - turn back the AF Gain until the internal noise is just barely 
audible.

As far as your concern about the S-meter reading - the S-meter response 
can be altered by changing the AGC characteristics on your K3.  Jack 
Smith (www.cliftonlaboratories.com) has done measurements of the K3 AGC 
settings, so if you want to customize your AGC response, I suggest you 
use his charts for reference.  S-meter ABS setting can also influence 
your S-meter response and make it 'imune' to the ATT and PRE in/out 
condition.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/28/2010 6:18 AM, Pete Smith wrote:
> Ever since I got my K3, I have been a little surprised at what seems to
> be a relatively high noise level with no antenna connected (or on a
> dummy load).  Very unscientifically described, on 20m it registers 1-2
> bars on the S meter, and the background is quite loud on the speaker
> with the audio gain set at 12 o'clock (RF gain full, AGC - fast,
> bandwidth 200Hz with a 500 Hz roofing filter in, no noise blanker or
> noise reduction).
>
> The radio seems to perform fine, and I have not had the feeling that I
> was missing many signals because they were being masked by receiver
> noise.  Nonetheless, I wonder how this compares with others' experience,
> or with the factory expectation?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
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[Elecraft] [P3] P3 and K144XV

[Radio Amateur N5GE]

Does the P3 Display 2m with the K144XV and other XVTRs?

Thanks,

Tom Childers
N5GE Antenna
4507 Branchview Drive
Arlington, TX 76017
n...@n5ge.com
http://www.n5ge.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3-100 ordered

[Barry]

I received K3-100 #4639 on Thursday, August 26. It was ordered on Saturday,
August 21 and replaced an Orion II.

73,
Richard, N7NT


I received mine the same day as Richard,  #4607.  

Won't be on the air for another 3-4 weeks, as I still have to install some
stealth wires at my condo.  I've been off the air for a little over a year,
as I sold everything before moving to new QTH in CO, including a 7800 (now
owned by K3LR) and a FT1000D (now owned by WE3C).  Note that I only sell
radios to winning contest stations :.)

Barry W2UP
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] High internal noise level

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Pete,

The first thing I would do is get a calibrated signal generator (the
XG-2 is fine if you don't have something more complex) and perform
the RF gain calibration in the K3 Utility.  Follow that with an S-
Meter calibration.  After calibration with S9 = 50 uV (-73 dBm), I
see no S-meter activity with a dummy load or antenna on a "dead band."
The P3 shows the noise floor between -140 and -145 dBm (2 to 3 S units
BELOW S0) with a dummy load and around -130 dBm (still less than S0) 
with my low Windom and no preamp on 20 meters.

Second, your AF Gain may be a bit high ... mine is normally around
9 - 10 o'clock with the Sony bookshelf speakers or the CM-500 and
around 10 - 11 o'clock with the Heil Proset.  That represents a
comfortable listening level for most signals and provides almost
no noise with the antenna on 20 (160/80/40 are a different story)
and quiet with the dummy load/no antenna.  As a reference point, the
"no antenna" noise is noticeable at full RF/AF gain and the 20 meter
antenna noise is at the threshold of becoming uncomfortable at full
AF/RF gain.  Note, I generally do not need the preamp even with a
poor antenna except on 6/10/12 meters and always use ATT on 160/80.

I am not using the default settings for ACG threshold and slope ...
I prefer setting both to "8" which provides for a higher threshold
before the onset of AGC and less flatness after AGC begins.  For an
excellent look at the K3 AGC behavior see Jack Smith's (W8OZA) work:
http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm .

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 8/28/2010 6:18 AM, Pete Smith wrote:
> Ever since I got my K3, I have been a little surprised at what seems to
> be a relatively high noise level with no antenna connected (or on a
> dummy load).  Very unscientifically described, on 20m it registers 1-2
> bars on the S meter, and the background is quite loud on the speaker
> with the audio gain set at 12 o'clock (RF gain full, AGC - fast,
> bandwidth 200Hz with a 500 Hz roofing filter in, no noise blanker or
> noise reduction).
>
> The radio seems to perform fine, and I have not had the feeling that I
> was missing many signals because they were being masked by receiver
> noise.  Nonetheless, I wonder how this compares with others' experience,
> or with the factory expectation?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Externmal ATU

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 > 3) Leave the tuner in manual mode and press TUNE on the tuner when you
 > change bands or antennas.  This interrupts the amp-key line before
 > tuning starts.  But this requires a TUNE REQUEST input to the K3
 > which is not available.

Since the manual mode tune interrupts the amp-key line, you can
use the "Key" jack in the K3 for your tune request.  The K3 output
will be limited to your "PWR" setting which with most amplifiers
(other than a pair of 3-500Z) will (should) be less than full
power - typically 60-70 W and as low as 25-30 W for 8877 and
similar high gain tubes.  That level should be plenty safe for
both the "full power" tuner and the K3.

In addition, one could always add a relay switched 3-6dB attenuator
enabled by the Tune Request signal to the input of the tuner.  That
would both decrease the tune power to the antenna and isolate the K3
from any transient mismatches due to relay switching in the tuner.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/28/2010 7:07 AM, Phil & Debbie Salas wrote:
> "...MFJ released a new Firmware for the MFJ-998 dated 08/02/2010. ..."
>
> The MFJ-998 wasn't interrupting the amp-key line when it tuned from memory.
> I guess it was assumed that this happend very quickly so this would not
> cause a problem.  However, as the relays operate you can have a momentary
> high VSWR condition.  So this will help.  HOWEVER - it takes a finite period
> of time for the tuner to "decide" that the VSWR is high and to measure the
> incoming frequency.  So during this "decision" process (when you change
> bands or antennas), you could have a high VSWR presented to the amplifier
> before the amp-enable line is interrupted and the new tuner values are
> snapped in place.   There are four ways around this:
>
> 1) With the tuner in full auto, flip the amp to standby and hit TUNE on the
> K3 when you change bands/antennas.  If the VSWR is greater than the MFJ-998
> programmed "start tuning" value, the tuner will tune.  Then flip the amp to
> operate.  This is what I do now (K3 tune output set for 15 watts).
> 2) Provide band data to the tuner so it tracks band changes before you even
> transmit.  Not supported by the current MFJ-998.  And this requires more
> untelligence if you have more than one antenna/band.
> 3) Leave the tuner in manual mode and press TUNE on the tuner when you
> change bands or antennas.  This interrupts the amp-key line before tuning
> starts.  But this requires a TUNE REQUEST input to the K3 which is not
> available.
> 4) Use resonant antennas on all bands and forget the tuner!
>
> Phil - AD5X
>
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[Elecraft] K1 - KXB3080 Option For Sale

[stan levandowski]

I have a new, unbuilt KXB3080 option for sale to the first reasonable 
offer.  This includes pre-wound toroids from the ToroidGuy.

I managed to construct a real sweetheart of a KX1 (probably some 
combination of my dumb luck + Elecraft's great manual) and I've decided 
that I don't want to risk screwing it up. I have a K2 for the other 
bands.

Anyone interested can contact me off-list.  This offer only appears on 
this list.  It is NOT on eBAY or anywhere else.


Stan WB2LQF
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 KPA/100 excessive power issue, SSB mode, some bands

[Steve Kavanagh]

Ken:

The excessive power could also be due to a problem some of us have had where 
the KPA100 gain is high enough that the ALC circuits do not have enough range 
to control the power on some bands (typically 80m and/or 40m).  Only SSB is 
affected, not CW.

See:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2005-December/050672.html

for my symptoms, and

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2005-December/050967.html

for a short summary of the cure in my K2.

Try to see what happens on a dummy load...if you still have the problem that 
would rule out RF feedback. My transmitted signal was quite distorted on 
SSB...an on air signal quality report might help you determine the source of 
the problem, too.

73,
Steve VE3SMA


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Re: [Elecraft] Need K3 dB Measurements on new 160M Antenna

[Graham Kimbell G3TCT]

Jim
Afraid I can't help with listening on 160, but an interesting topic, and
a measurement technique applicable to other situations. My observation
is that the mental averaging will be rather tricky, especially if the
QSB is slow and unpredictable. What we need is something (software?)
which will record the strength seen by the K3 over a minute or 3, and
then provide a statistical analysis. You would then get a picture of the
average, peak, trough and distribution of strengths.
I wonder if something like this exists already - or could be included in 
P3 s/w?

Graham

On 19:59, Jim Brown wrote:
> Crew,
>
> I've put up a pair of new antennas for 160M that are predicted to have
> about 3dB of gain over my existing vertical. Without going into a lot of
> detail, each antenna is a wire sloping off of my 120 ft tower, one going
> east, one going west. The tower acts as a reflector. The tower and each
> wire have 4 elevated radials. The antenna is working -- I've made four QSOs
> with VK, one with FK8, and one with FO in about two hours -- but I need to
> figure out if it's working better than my existing omni vertical.
>
> By doing a lot of listening, I can clearly confirm the predicted 6dB or so
> of front to back, but QSB makes it hard to get a handle on gain, and I'm
> only expecting 2-3dB. That's where the dB meter in the K3 comes in handy.
>
> My method is to key down on one antenna for a while, let you get a reading,
> switch to the other and do the same, then back and forth between them,
> again for long enough for you to get a good reading. There IS a lot of QSB
> on the band, so you'll need to do a lot of mental averaging. Please let me
> know, OFFF THE LIST, if this is something that you would like to help me
> with. I need reports from stations that are between about 30 degrees
> azimuth and 120 degrees azimuth of my QTH south of San Francisco. In other
> words, my antenna is aimed at about 75 degrees (ENE), and I need reports
> that are within 50 degrees of being on axis. I could also use measurements
> from KH6 of the antenna that goes in that direction.
>
> BTW -- to access the dB meter in the K3, you need to hit the Display button
> once, then rotate the second VFO knob clockwise until you see a reading in
> mV. Let the knob in that position for about 15 seconds, then rotate it one
> more position clockwise. Now, the dB reading will be relative to whatever
> the average IF output was when the knob was in the mV position. Note also
> that the reading goes plus and minus.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[Elecraft] Wanted: Elecraft K3 Options (KAT3 Tuner, Filters, 2nd RX...)

[spitze1]

Hello!

I am still looking for some options for my K3. KAT3 Tuner, KTCXO3-1  TCXO, 
KXV3A RX Ant., IF Out and Xverter Interface (last Version), KFL3A-2.8K  2.8
kHz, 8-pole filter, KFL3A-400  400 Hz, narrow 8-pole  filter,  KFL3A-250 
250 Hz, narrow 8-pole  filter etc..

Thanks

73s Alex NH7VW, HB9TSF, OE6ASF :-)
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Wanted-Elecraft-K3-Options-KAT3-Tuner-Filters-2nd-RX-tp5473018p5473018.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3/HRD/Windows 7

[Frank MacDonell]

I am migrating to a new laptop with Win7. I have downloaded HRD
(Version 4.1) and everything seems to work like it did on my old
machine. I have also downloaded newest Prolific drivers. But the
waterfall seems to show loose/scattered signal with minimal/partial
de-code. I have tried to mess with settings on the sound card to no
avail. Any ideas?? Thanks so much in advance!

-- 
Frank KD8FIP
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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[Jim Brown]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:14:33 +0100, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

>>Not many beams around my way in those days; I'm more interested in 
>>keeping noise out of the receiver.
>>
>These days, that is often the most important reason to use feedline 
>chokes.

YES! And keeping RF out of the shack, and out of your neighbor's living 
room high futility system. 

>As I said previously, any choke that is liable to this kind of 
>measurement error will have exactly the same problems in a practical 
>installation - only far, far worse - resulting in unreliable 
>performance. That is a very good reason to avoid high-Q (frequency 
>selective) chokes and choose a more broadband design.

YES. This is the fundamental problem with #61 as a core material. 

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] High internal noise level

[Jim Brown]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 06:18:06 -0400, Pete Smith wrote:

>Nonetheless, I wonder how this compares with others' experience, 
>or with the factory expectation?

What I think you are observing is the AGC bringing up the system gain 
so that you hear circuit noise in the front end. As W8JI has often 
observed, if the noise level increases at least 10dB when you connect 
the antenna, the circuit noise in the receiver is not limiting weak 
signal performance. That condition is met on all bands except 6M, where 
an external preamp is needed in any reasonably quiet location. 

73, Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Need K3 dB Measurements on new 160M Antenna

[Edward Dickinson, III]

Jim - 

Give www.w4mq.com a try!


73,
Dick - KA5KKT



On 19:59, Jim Brown wrote:
> Crew,
>
> I've put up a pair of new antennas for 160M that are predicted to have
> about 3dB of gain over my existing vertical. Without going into a lot of
> detail, each antenna is a wire sloping off of my 120 ft tower, one going
> east, one going west. The tower acts as a reflector. The tower and each
> wire have 4 elevated radials. The antenna is working -- I've made four
QSOs
> with VK, one with FK8, and one with FO in about two hours -- but I need to
> figure out if it's working better than my existing omni vertical.
>
> By doing a lot of listening, I can clearly confirm the predicted 6dB or so
> of front to back, but QSB makes it hard to get a handle on gain, and I'm
> only expecting 2-3dB. That's where the dB meter in the K3 comes in handy.
>
> My method is to key down on one antenna for a while, let you get a
reading,
> switch to the other and do the same, then back and forth between them,
> again for long enough for you to get a good reading. There IS a lot of QSB
> on the band, so you'll need to do a lot of mental averaging. Please let me
> know, OFFF THE LIST, if this is something that you would like to help me
> with. I need reports from stations that are between about 30 degrees
> azimuth and 120 degrees azimuth of my QTH south of San Francisco. In other
> words, my antenna is aimed at about 75 degrees (ENE), and I need reports
> that are within 50 degrees of being on axis. I could also use measurements
> from KH6 of the antenna that goes in that direction.
>
> BTW -- to access the dB meter in the K3, you need to hit the Display
button
> once, then rotate the second VFO knob clockwise until you see a reading in
> mV. Let the knob in that position for about 15 seconds, then rotate it one
> more position clockwise. Now, the dB reading will be relative to whatever
> the average IF output was when the knob was in the mV position. Note also
> that the reading goes plus and minus.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Need K3 dB Measurements on new 160M Antenna

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Alas, after years of doing A/B manual coax switch tests, I have given
up on that exposing anything better than 10 db differences on anything
other than stable local signals.  And that is suspect because it is
often ground wave, which bears no resemblance to sky wave.

I built a 60 hz switch which used 12VAC plus and negative to
alternately bias off left and right diodes connecting a common RF
output port to two RF input ports.  Being careful to use no AGC or
very slow AGC, this presented an audio from the RX which showed to an
oscilloscope the signal comparison between A and B that could be
measured on the scope and converted to dB.

I also quickly learned that I had no hope whatsoever of perceiving a
difference less than 3 dB in my ear and didn't do all that well with
less than 6.

I used that to compare signals on various antennas and showed it to
the owner.  But so ingrained is the idea of manual A/B coax switching
that he was back to judging results the old way, and discarding
methods that gained a dB here and there, because "he couldn't hear it,
and was going to trust his ears."

The main problem of the device was an unambiguous way of identifying
the port on the oscilloscope display.  I have an idea of using a PIC
device instead of the house AC to create the switching intervals, one
which starts a sequence with a "long" A port and ends with a long B
port and 8 regular ports in between, with a space between the two long
ports. That would always unambiguously identify the A and B signals.
Follow that with a program to analyze the audio levels and present
peaks, minimums and averages for both signals and signal-to-noise, and
you now have an antenna analyzer that can show you real differences
between antennas real-time.

To me anyway, that sounds like a tailor-made Elecraft gizmo kit.  I
think you could sell tens of thousands of those.  Really surprised
something like that not already around and part of during-contest
comparisons between antennas.

If the gizmo had the ability to decode the results and put it on a LED
display marked with port A on one end and port B on the other, with
the middle LED meaning equal, with two or three ranges, it would be
the cat's meow for comparing two antennas.

73, Guy.

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Graham Kimbell G3TCT
 wrote:
> Jim
> Afraid I can't help with listening on 160, but an interesting topic, and
> a measurement technique applicable to other situations. My observation
> is that the mental averaging will be rather tricky, especially if the
> QSB is slow and unpredictable. What we need is something (software?)
> which will record the strength seen by the K3 over a minute or 3, and
> then provide a statistical analysis. You would then get a picture of the
> average, peak, trough and distribution of strengths.
> I wonder if something like this exists already - or could be included in
> P3 s/w?
>
> Graham
>
> On 19:59, Jim Brown wrote:
>> Crew,
>>
>> I've put up a pair of new antennas for 160M that are predicted to have
>> about 3dB of gain over my existing vertical. Without going into a lot of
>> detail, each antenna is a wire sloping off of my 120 ft tower, one going
>> east, one going west. The tower acts as a reflector. The tower and each
>> wire have 4 elevated radials. The antenna is working -- I've made four QSOs
>> with VK, one with FK8, and one with FO in about two hours -- but I need to
>> figure out if it's working better than my existing omni vertical.
>>
>> By doing a lot of listening, I can clearly confirm the predicted 6dB or so
>> of front to back, but QSB makes it hard to get a handle on gain, and I'm
>> only expecting 2-3dB. That's where the dB meter in the K3 comes in handy.
>>
>> My method is to key down on one antenna for a while, let you get a reading,
>> switch to the other and do the same, then back and forth between them,
>> again for long enough for you to get a good reading. There IS a lot of QSB
>> on the band, so you'll need to do a lot of mental averaging. Please let me
>> know, OFFF THE LIST, if this is something that you would like to help me
>> with. I need reports from stations that are between about 30 degrees
>> azimuth and 120 degrees azimuth of my QTH south of San Francisco. In other
>> words, my antenna is aimed at about 75 degrees (ENE), and I need reports
>> that are within 50 degrees of being on axis. I could also use measurements
>> from KH6 of the antenna that goes in that direction.
>>
>> BTW -- to access the dB meter in the K3, you need to hit the Display button
>> once, then rotate the second VFO knob clockwise until you see a reading in
>> mV. Let the knob in that position for about 15 seconds, then rotate it one
>> more position clockwise. Now, the dB reading will be relative to whatever
>> the average IF output was when the knob was in the mV position. Note also
>> that the reading goes plus and minus.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> __

Re: [Elecraft] Need K3 dB Measurements on new 160M Antenna

[Jim Brown]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:38:59 -0400, Edward Dickinson, III wrote:

>Give www.w4mq.com a try!

Very slick!  Now, if it can hear me from 2,500 miles away. :)

73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA



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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[Wes Stewart]

I am reminded of a time in my career when I was a member of a Components and 
Materials Department. We had experts in a variety of fields including, failure 
analysis, NDT, chemists, materials scientists, metallurgists, etc.  I was the 
RF/uW guy and had a “private” lab with over a mega-buck worth of HP test 
equipment in a shielded room.

The components guys were of course experts in that field and were also the guys 
who wrote a lot of specifications. I often got roped into this as well when RF 
parts were at issue.

It drove me bonkers when a missile program would say for example, a feed-thru 
filter needed to be specified over the frequency range of DC to X-band, simply 
because the missile operated at X-band.  If you want to know frustration, try 
telling a manager, or worse a government contract person, that measuring a 
power filter with foot-long shielded leads at 12 GHz is a really dumb idea.

Equally silly (and applicable here) is measuring a device in a 50-ohm 
environment and trying to determine attenuation, when in actual operation, 
neither the source or load impedance is known.

--- On Sat, 8/28/10, Ian White GM3SEK  wrote:
 
> I measured the same chokes in both types of test jig,
> reflection and 
> transmission, and neither method has any clear advantage
> over the other. 
> Both methods have potential problems with variations in
> series 
> inductance and shunt capacitance (the latter in parallel
> with the 
> choke). In both cases, everything depends on the care taken
> to maintain 
> the test jig in exactly the same geometry, first for
> calibration and 
> then for all subsequent measurements.



  

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Re: [Elecraft] [P3] P3 and K144XV

[Bill K9YEQ]

I have used the P3 with the K144xv.
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Radio Amateur N5GE
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 7:10 AM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] [P3] P3 and K144XV

Does the P3 Display 2m with the K144XV and other XVTRs?

Thanks,

Tom Childers
N5GE Antenna
4507 Branchview Drive
Arlington, TX 76017
n...@n5ge.com
http://www.n5ge.com

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[Elecraft] P3 ser 320 alive and well

[Mike Scott]

P3 serial 320 up and running. I don't remember the date in June that I
ordered it.

 

I added KXV3A and did the IF modification at the same time. I was quite
pleased when I hit the K3 power button and signals were visible immediately
on the display.

Good job Alan.

 

AE6WA

Mike Scott

Tarzana CA

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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[Jim Brown]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:59:21 -0700 (PDT), Wes Stewart wrote:

>Equally silly (and applicable here) is measuring a device in a 50-ohm 
>environment and trying to determine attenuation, when in actual operation, 
>neither the source or load impedance is known.

Exactly. It is the 50 ohm environment that is the source of much of the 
measurement error. Measuring S21, by one means or another, is an effective 
solution, and the one I've used. 

Measuring shield current, as David has suggested, is an indication of the 
effectiveness of a choke IN A PARTICULAR CIRCUIT -- for example, a feedline 
onto which it is inserted, the antenna to which the feedline is connected, 
and the termination of the feedline at the receiver. The effectiveness of a 
choke in any given application depends upon the common mode impedances 
within that particular circuit.

These are two VERY different problems, and two very different measurements. 
Both are useful. Measuring the choke on the bench tells us about the 
properties of the choke. Knowing that, we can optimize the choke for a 
given frequency range and use, AND we can insert the properties of a choke 
into a model and, if the model knows enough about the circuit of interest, 
predict the effectiveness of the choke in reducing common mode current. 

There is, of course, another set of unknowns. They relate to the source(s) 
of the noise, their location, polarization, directivity, proximity to the 
feedline and to the antenna, the directivity of the antenna, etc. The choke 
will have little effect on the component of noise picked up on the antenna 
-- it can suppress noise picked up only on the feedline. In general, the 
choke will be most effective in suppressing noise that is much closer to 
the feedline than to the antenna, and/or is rejected by antenna 
directivity. 

73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] Elecraft Boxboro Video

[N1IX]

Here is a short "amateur" video of the Elecraft booth at the Boxboro ARRL
Hamvention today

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC6Bxd0BkvE

 

 

Dave N1IX

 

 

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[Elecraft] K2 DSP

[Fred Maas]

The DSP unit in the K2 greatly increases the current drawn in rcv mode.

Can the DSP be turned off to reduced current drain when operating portable from 
a battery ???

TNX,

73,  Fred  - KT5X

K2 # 0700
K3 # 0144

ATS3B SOTA radio
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[Elecraft] Help with power problem on a K1?

[Eric Champine]

Hi all.
I am on page 30 of the K1 manual where you hook up a 12v power supply and
take some readings in 4 different places.
Everything was OK but the reading off of P1 pin 16. It is supposed to be
(Supply - 0.3 V) and I got 9.33 volts.
Any clue what I should check or do?
Thanks all.

73 de W2EEC

Eric
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[Elecraft] Elecraft SSB net announcement

[Phil and Christina]

The weekly Elecraft SSB net will meet tomorrow (8/29/10) at 1800z on 14.314
MHz. I will be net control from western Oregon, and I will try to swing the
antenna in multiple directions to get as many of you as I can. See you then.

73,
Phil NS7P


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 DSP

[Lyle Johnson]

  There is a reduced power mode for the DSP in bypass mode.  See the 
KDSP2 manual for details.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> Can the DSP be turned off to reduced current drain when operating portable 
> from a battery ???

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 DSP

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Seems to be something like 60-80 ma extra running DSP on vs DSP
bypassed on battery.

With DSP you should be able to toggle between three modes by tapping
display: normal, DSP and voltage/current.  In the DSP mode,  probably
showing C something  nr, do a series of holds on BAND+ until you find
dSP on.  Tap BAND- and you should see dSP byP,  This knocks down my
battery drain, but does not seem to make as much a difference if I'm
running on power supply.  Go figure.

73, Guy.

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Fred Maas  wrote:
> The DSP unit in the K2 greatly increases the current drawn in rcv mode.
>
> Can the DSP be turned off to reduced current drain when operating portable 
> from a battery ???
>
> TNX,
>
> 73,  Fred  - KT5X
>
> K2 # 0700
> K3 # 0144
>
> ATS3B SOTA radio
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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[David Cutter]

This brings me nicely to the final bit of the puzzle:  say, in a given 
location, you want to set up your own personal outdoor lab to make these 
measurements comparing various solutions.  How do you create a constant 
noise source *which will most effectively demonstrate* the performance of 
one choke against another?

I suspect that, at the end of the day, this is probably going to be the 
cheapest and most conclusive of all tests.

David
G3UNA

>
>>Equally silly (and applicable here) is measuring a device in a 50-ohm
>>environment and trying to determine attenuation, when in actual operation,
>>neither the source or load impedance is known.
>
> Exactly. It is the 50 ohm environment that is the source of much of the
> measurement error. Measuring S21, by one means or another, is an effective
> solution, and the one I've used.
>
> Measuring shield current, as David has suggested, is an indication of the
> effectiveness of a choke IN A PARTICULAR CIRCUIT -- for example, a 
> feedline
> onto which it is inserted, the antenna to which the feedline is connected,
> and the termination of the feedline at the receiver. The effectiveness of 
> a
> choke in any given application depends upon the common mode impedances
> within that particular circuit.
>
> These are two VERY different problems, and two very different 
> measurements.
> Both are useful. Measuring the choke on the bench tells us about the
> properties of the choke. Knowing that, we can optimize the choke for a
> given frequency range and use, AND we can insert the properties of a choke
> into a model and, if the model knows enough about the circuit of interest,
> predict the effectiveness of the choke in reducing common mode current.
>
> There is, of course, another set of unknowns. They relate to the source(s)
> of the noise, their location, polarization, directivity, proximity to the
> feedline and to the antenna, the directivity of the antenna, etc. The 
> choke
> will have little effect on the component of noise picked up on the antenna
> -- it can suppress noise picked up only on the feedline. In general, the
> choke will be most effective in suppressing noise that is much closer to
> the feedline than to the antenna, and/or is rejected by antenna
> directivity.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] High internal noise level

[Pete Smith]

Thanks to Bill and everyone else for their suggestions.  I implemented 
N1EU's AGC settings - not much different from the defaults, but a 
little, and the receiver seems quieter.  Also switched off the 
peak-reading S meter, and the S-meter indication on a dummy load is now 
zero.  That may be the biggest psychological factor in the "quieter 
RX."  But boy, the S-meter seems scotch by comparison - I have done the 
calibration routine from the manual, though, and I'm satisfied that it's 
just honest - hi.

I guess my analog roots are showing - I have grown up used to running RF 
gain full on, and turning off AGC when I had to ride the RF gain.  But I 
notice that, as in an analog radio, the S meter is effectively disabled 
when you turn the RF gain down very far.  I guess I can live without it.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 8/28/2010 7:21 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>
> Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
>
>> Ever since I got my K3, I have been a little surprised at what seems to
>> be a relatively high noise level with no antenna connected (or on a
>> dummy load).  Very unscientifically described, on 20m it registers 1-2
>> bars on the S meter, and the background is quite loud on the speaker
>> with the audio gain set at 12 o'clock (RF gain full, AGC - fast,
>> bandwidth 200Hz with a 500 Hz roofing filter in, no noise blanker or
>> noise reduction).
>>
>>  
> Pete this is a common issue for new users.  It's actually not unique to the
> K3...Orion had the identical issue for the same reasons.
>
> 1.  Your gain settings are incorrect.  If AF Gain is at 12 o'clock it's too
> high, and RF Gain should almost never be at maximum.  My settings are
> typically AF Gain at 9-10 o'clock with RF Gain around 1-3 o'clock (but that
> depends on the specific antenna and band).  This has been covered many times
> and Barry N1EU has a nice explanation including a summary of how to set both
> gains here:
>
> http://n1eu.com/K3/K3_agcgain.htm  (scroll to Gain Adjustment)
>
>
> 2.  The K3's S-meter is more accurate than most rigs, especially at the low
> end of the meter scale.  Typical FT-1000 meters will read S1 at a -104 dBm
> level.
>
> http://www.n6rk.com/FT1000_S_meter.doc
>
> By contrast, a properly calibrated (and accurate) K3 meter will read S4 at
> the same level!
>
> http://www.n6rk.com/S_unit_definitions.doc
>
>
> The combination of #1 above (setting RF Gain to max) and #2 (an accurate
> meter which indicates higher than many rigs at low levels) leads many new
> users to think the K3 is noisy.  In fact it isn't but we need to learn how
> to properly set gain to take maximum advantage of the K3's dynamic range.
> K3NA's version is very detailed, but N1EU's version above is much simpler.
>
> BTW for those of you with a P3, setting it's Ref Lvl just at or slightly
> above the noise floor is the equivalent of what you're doing in the K3
> above.  When done properly with the K3, you'll hear weak signals at the
> noise floor and still have the full ~100 dB of dynamic range above that
> level.  If you set RF Gain too high, the rig will sound noisy and you'll be
> wasting some dynamic range by extending the K3's low end below band noise
> levels.
>
> 73,  Bill
>
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[Elecraft] Did I blow something up?

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

I think I might have blown something here, leaving the AGC turned off and then 
having a strong local signal come through. on frequency. 

Setup: There is no KRX3 2nd receiver. I have a Heil headset plugged into the 
back, as well as stereo computer speakers plugged into the back. 

Here is what happens with various configuration settings: I normally have 
SPKR+PH set to YES, as I control the speaker volume (or turn them off) on the 
speakers. When I set SPKRS to 1, sound still comes out of both speakers, but 
only comes out of the left headphone. When I set SPKRS to 2, sound comes out of 
both headphones and both speakers.

If I switch SPKR+PH to NO, then sound comes out of both headphones whether 
SPKRS is set to 1 or 2. But with SPKR+PH set to YES, SPKRS must be set to 2 in 
order for me to get headphone audio out of the right headphone.

So this is not an operational problem -- I just leave SPKRS set to 2. But I 
think I used to get audio out of both headphones with SPKRS set to 1.  

Did something get blown up?

Bill W5WVO
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Re: [Elecraft] BL2 choking Impedence measurements?

[Jim Brown]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 22:41:47 +0100, David Cutter wrote:

>This brings me nicely to the final bit of the puzzle:  say, in a given 
>location, you want to set up your own personal outdoor lab to make these 
>measurements comparing various solutions.  How do you create a constant 
>noise source *which will most effectively demonstrate* the performance of 
>one choke against another?

The choking impedance measurement can give you a first approximation of 
the parallel equivalent circuit, certainly sufficient for this purpose. 
You add that choke (or any other choke of known characteristics) to a 
circuit and observe the noise reduction (if any). You take that reduction, 
in dB, and work backwards to compute the initial series impedance of the 
common mode circuit. If the choking Z is much higher (5:1) than the 
impedance of the common mode circuit, reactance doesn't cause much error. 
Now, knowing the common mode impedance of that particular circuit, you can 
predict what more or less choking Z will do. 

THAT'S why I've always placed so much emphasis on determining the 
equivalent circuit values for the choke. And THAT'S why it was learned at 
least 60 years ago that RESISTANCE is the key to suppression. This 
principle can be found in old references from the 50s and 60s (I know, 
because in the process of publishing my work as an AES paper stating that 
principle, I did a literature search and found some references to it), but 
somehow it never found its way into modern literature, including ARRL 
publications. 

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] Did I blow something up?

[Dave Hachadorian]

--
From: "Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO" 
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 2:58 PM
To: "[Elecraft]" 
Subject: [Elecraft] Did I blow something up?

> I think I might have blown something here, leaving the AGC 
> turned off and then having a strong local signal come through. 
> on frequency.
>
> Setup: There is no KRX3 2nd receiver. I have a Heil headset 
> plugged into the back, as well as stereo computer speakers 
> plugged into the back.
>
> Here is what happens with various configuration settings: I 
> normally have SPKR+PH set to YES, as I control the speaker 
> volume (or turn them off) on the speakers. When I set SPKRS to 
> 1, sound still comes out of both speakers, but only comes out 
> of the left headphone. When I set SPKRS to 2, sound comes out 
> of both headphones and both speakers.
>
> If I switch SPKR+PH to NO, then sound comes out of both 
> headphones whether SPKRS is set to 1 or 2. But with SPKR+PH set 
> to YES, SPKRS must be set to 2 in order for me to get headphone 
> audio out of the right headphone.
>
> So this is not an operational problem -- I just leave SPKRS set 
> to 2. But I think I used to get audio out of both headphones 
> with SPKRS set to 1.
>
> Did something get blown up?
>
> Bill W5WVO
---

My K3 behaves just as you describe.

With spkr+ph set to yes, and spkrs to 1, sound comes out of the 
left headphone only.

I would plug your computer speakers into LIN OUT, not speaker 
out, and leave spkr+ph set to NO. The K3's speaker amp is 
fragile, and can be blown with a loud signal, especially with AGC 
OFF.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Big Bear Lake, CA



































.

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Did I blow something up?

[Lyle Johnson]

  This is normal operation.

Also, note that there is an audio limiter that you can aset which is 
active only with AGC off.  See the manual for details.

73,

Lyle KK7P

>> I think I might have blown something here, leaving the AGC
>> turned off and then having a strong local signal come through.
>> on frequency.

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Re: [Elecraft] Did I blow something up?

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Thanks, Lyle. This thread can end. Thanks for the tip on the audio limiter.
Bill W5WVO

--
From: "Lyle Johnson" 
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 23:07
To: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Did I blow something up?

>  This is normal operation.
> 
> Also, note that there is an audio limiter that you can aset which is 
> active only with AGC off.  See the manual for details.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Lyle KK7P
> 
>>> I think I might have blown something here, leaving the AGC
>>> turned off and then having a strong local signal come through.
>>> on frequency.
> 
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> 
> 

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[Elecraft] [K3] New DVR and K144XV firmware features -- need testers

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi all,

I have new field-test K3 firmware ready with improvements that may be  
of interest to those using a DVR (KDVR3 option) or the K144XV 2-meter  
module.

Details:

* * *

* DVR TRANSMIT MONITOR SEPARATELY ADJUSTABLE:  Applies
to TX message play as well as TX playback of the 90-second loop.
First, set MAIN:TX DVR to IND (independent) and exit the menu. Next,
hold in the CMP/PWR knob to select MON. Holding the knob in a
second time alternates between MON xx and DVR xx. You can adjust
MON or DVR level during transmit playback.

* K144XV BAND-DATA OUTPUT ADDRESS RANGE INCREASED:
Originally, CONFIG:XVn ADR was always set to “INT TRN1” to enable
the K144XV. This set all band-data outputs on the ACC jack to 0. Now,
XVn ADR has of “INT TRN0” to “INT TRN9” for the K144XV. Band-data
outputs are set accordingly. This may be useful when the K144XV is
used as an IF for higher-band external transverters. (If you have a
K144XV, the original INT TRN1 will now be INT TRN0 in the menu.)

NOTE: When using the K144XV, XVn RF can be set to the RF band
of an external transverter that is using the K144XV as an I.F., rather
than at the 2-meter band edge (144).

* * *

Please let me know if you'd like to preview this release. I'm guessing  
we'll go to beta toward the end of next week.

Thanks,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] High internal noise level

[Bill W4ZV]

Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
> 
> I guess my analog roots are showing - I have grown up used to running RF 
> gain full on, and turning off AGC when I had to ride the RF gain.  But I 
> notice that, as in an analog radio, the S meter is effectively disabled 
> when you turn the RF gain down very far.  I guess I can live without it.
> 

The S-meter can actually help to set RF Gain correctly.  After you determine
the lowest gain setting of ATT/Off/PRE which gives band noise with an
antenna connected and RF Gain max CW, then adjust RF Gain CCW until the
meter holds just above visual noise peaks.  The meter still works for
signals above the noise floor you've just set.

Another point I forgot is to do the RF Gain Calibration on the K3 Utility
Calibration page.  In fact, the best order to do everything is:

1.  RF Gain Calibration.
2.  S-meter Calibration.
3.  Set Rf Gain max CW and set ATT/Off/PRE for lowest gain option that still
gives band noise.
4.  Back off RF Gain CCW so meter holds just above noise peaks.
5.  The K3 stores ATT/Off/PRE settings per band, so you don't need to do
this every time you change bands if you set it up ahead of time (although
multiple antennas per band will necessitate some adjustment).
6.  Set AF Gain for a comfortable listening level on a medium signal
(typically 9-10 o'clock).
7.  If you then let AGC do the work, you probably won't need to touch AF or
RF Gain much in normal operation.

73,  Bill

P.S.  The K3 hears well if you set it up correctly.  Some anecdotal evidence
is below (all from 160m and Diversity also deserves some credit):

http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/3830/2009-02/msg01298.html
http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/3830/2009-12/msg02168.html
http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/3830/2009-12/msg02145.html
http://web.jzap.com/k7rat/2009_Stew.htm (3-way tie for most QRPs)
2010 ARRL DX SOSB160 - 5 QRPs in EU and most DX QSOs, including multiops who
had the added advantage of Packet.
-- 
View this message in context: 
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[Elecraft] More QRP items from KI4NGL estate

[Don Wilhelm]

  I have found additional items from the estate of Roger Sturtevent KI4 NGL.

--N7VE (Dan Tayloe) SWR Indicator/Bridge kit (unbuilt).  The kit price 
is $15, I am asking for offers of $10 or more.

--Genesis G5-40 transmitter Kit plus LPC5 bandpass/T-R kit - kit price 
is more than $50.  Asking for offers of $35 or more - note there are no 
instructions for the LPC5, but they are available at the Genesis website 
for download.

--BLT+ Tuner kit (unassembled) with decals.  The bottom of the enclosure 
had been painted and then the front panel paint sanded (as though he was 
displeased with the paint job) - the top cover is unpainted.  This kit 
sells for $60, and I am seeking offers of $40 or more.

-- EMTECH ZM-2 tuner - this is assembled, and is cosmetically perfect 
exept for some scratches on the spun aluminum centers of the knobs.  The 
kit price is $65 and I am asking for offers above $45.

-- American  Morse Equipment KK2 Straight Key.  This kit is assembled. 
The kit price is $36 and I am asking for offers above $25.

-- Baby Black Widow Paddle kit (unassembled) - paddles for your KX1 or 
PFR-3.  Kit price is $39.95.  I am seeking offers of $28 or greater.

-- NO-GAwatt meter kit (unassembled) - see http://www.nogaqrp.org - this 
meter lists for $25.00 and I am seeking offers of $17.50 or above.

-- Elecraft KNB1 (noise blanker for K1) assembled with header and 
hardware included.  The new price is $39.95 and I am looking for offers 
of $28 and above.

-- Elecraft KBT1 kit (internal battery kit for K1).  This is unassembled 
and the speaker is not present.  THe Elecraft price (with speaker) is 
$39.95, and I am looking for offers of $24 and above.

I will look for offers until Monday evening (Eastern time), and the 
highest offer will get it.

73,
Don W3FPR


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Re: [Elecraft] (P3) Delivery Progress Surprise

[K4SC]

It's even better than that.  I received my notice, as you did, and three days
later I had the P-3!  I think they are under promising, and over-delivering. 
My P3 is #302 and my order date was early June.  I received mine on
Thursday.  Chuck K4SC
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Re: [Elecraft] More QRP items from KI4NGL estate

[Don Wilhelm]

  The straight key is a KK1, sorry for the "fat fingered" typo.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/28/2010 10:56 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>I have found additional items from the estate of Roger Sturtevent KI4 NGL.
>
> --N7VE (Dan Tayloe) SWR Indicator/Bridge kit (unbuilt).  The kit price
> is $15, I am asking for offers of $10 or more.
>
> --Genesis G5-40 transmitter Kit plus LPC5 bandpass/T-R kit - kit price
> is more than $50.  Asking for offers of $35 or more - note there are no
> instructions for the LPC5, but they are available at the Genesis website
> for download.
>
> --BLT+ Tuner kit (unassembled) with decals.  The bottom of the enclosure
> had been painted and then the front panel paint sanded (as though he was
> displeased with the paint job) - the top cover is unpainted.  This kit
> sells for $60, and I am seeking offers of $40 or more.
>
> -- EMTECH ZM-2 tuner - this is assembled, and is cosmetically perfect
> exept for some scratches on the spun aluminum centers of the knobs.  The
> kit price is $65 and I am asking for offers above $45.
>
> -- American  Morse Equipment KK2 Straight Key.  This kit is assembled.
> The kit price is $36 and I am asking for offers above $25.
>
> -- Baby Black Widow Paddle kit (unassembled) - paddles for your KX1 or
> PFR-3.  Kit price is $39.95.  I am seeking offers of $28 or greater.
>
> -- NO-GAwatt meter kit (unassembled) - see http://www.nogaqrp.org - this
> meter lists for $25.00 and I am seeking offers of $17.50 or above.
>
> -- Elecraft KNB1 (noise blanker for K1) assembled with header and
> hardware included.  The new price is $39.95 and I am looking for offers
> of $28 and above.
>
> -- Elecraft KBT1 kit (internal battery kit for K1).  This is unassembled
> and the speaker is not present.  THe Elecraft price (with speaker) is
> $39.95, and I am looking for offers of $24 and above.
>
> I will look for offers until Monday evening (Eastern time), and the
> highest offer will get it.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
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[Elecraft] Some thoughts on the K3 as an emergency communications station

[Wayne Burdick]

Most of our customers choose the K3 for its contesting or DX  
performance. But with all the world-wide flooding, earthquakes, and  
heat waves and power-outages we've seen this year, I'm reflecting on  
how the K3 can serve as a flexible station for emergency communications.

Here's a brief list of K3 features that could help in such situations:

- Only about 9 pounds, and sized so it's easy to carry to any location.

- Bulletproof receiver--important for multi-transmitter environments.  
(If you have to set up more than one HF/VHF station in a small area,  
you'll want them not to interfere with each other.)

- Coverage of HF and SW broadcast, as well as two local/emergency  
bands (6 and 2 meters).

- Low receive-mode current drain (about 1 amp) for extended operating  
time when using batteries, solar panels, etc. Most radios with  
comparable performance have current drain three times higher, and even  
garden-variety radios are usually in the 2-amp-plus range. In transmit  
mode, current drain can be very low at QRP power levels (12 watts or  
less) because the PA is completely turned off.

- Runs from up to a 15-V supply, but usable down to as low as about 10  
V in a pinch, thanks to the use of low-dropout voltage regulators.  
Also, we selected the APP power connector specifically because it is  
as close to a standard as exists in the portable-comms world; you'll  
be able to "borrow" power when you need to.

- Wide-range ATU matches nearly any ad-hoc field antenna. Many built- 
in ATUs cover only a very small range, while the KAT3 can easily match  
loads with SWRs of 10:1, and in some cases (at QRP levels) far higher.  
The two antenna jacks allow instant A/B testing on individual signals.

- High-performance sub receiver with true diversity receive; could  
help copy traffic in difficult conditions.

- Built-ins that reduce the need for other equipment: real time clock  
(with alarm), calendar, digital metering (current, voltage,  
temperature, SWR, power).

- DVR and CW/DATA auto-repeating messages for beacon or net use, and  
built-in text decode/display for copying bulletins (PSK31, RTTY, CW).

- And if you have room for a P3 at your emergency operating position,  
you'll be able to find weak signals calling without endless tuning of  
the VFO :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR







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Re: [Elecraft] Some thoughts on the K3 as an emergency communications station

[Grant Youngman]

Sounds like a thought model for a good commercial.  Most of us that own this 
thing, know most of this pretty well :-)

Grant/NQ5T


On Aug 28, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Most of our customers choose the K3 for its contesting or DX  
> performance. But with all the world-wide flooding, earthquakes, and  
> heat waves and power-outages we've seen this year, I'm reflecting on  
> how the K3 can serve as a flexible station for emergency communications.
> 
> Here's a brief list of K3 features that could help in such situations:
> 
> -
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Re: [Elecraft] Some thoughts on the K3 as an emergencycommunications station

[Steve Ellington]

I'll venture to say that the K3 uses less power in receive mode than power 
wasted by my regulated power supply.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Grant Youngman" 
To: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Some thoughts on the K3 as an 
emergencycommunications station


> Sounds like a thought model for a good commercial.  Most of us that own 
> this thing, know most of this pretty well :-)
>
> Grant/NQ5T
>
>
> On Aug 28, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> Most of our customers choose the K3 for its contesting or DX
>> performance. But with all the world-wide flooding, earthquakes, and
>> heat waves and power-outages we've seen this year, I'm reflecting on
>> how the K3 can serve as a flexible station for emergency communications.
>>
>> Here's a brief list of K3 features that could help in such situations:
>>
>> -
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[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement

[Kevin Rock]

Good Evening,
   Fall is definitely in the air.  The temperature got up to 62 today and the 
leaves of a few trees are falling.  I have seen a few color changes too.  Split 
wood is stacking up in the forest but it needs to find its way home and into a 
stack before the rainy season begins.  Forecasts are for another week of low 60 
degree weather with some rain.  No big storms yet but it will be here soon 
enough.  Hunters are getting ready and I have seen a few bear who got unlucky 
or incautious.  
   Propagation was decent; especially today when the Iowa balloon was on its 
way up.  Until it got to 30,000 feet the signal was good copy and then it faded 
until the balloon burst and it descended.  I started hearing it again at about 
25,000 feet and followed it on the way down to around 10,000 feet with poor 
copy.  During my daily skeds twenty meters was good but for the fox hunt I was 
skunked again; only hearing the local fox's hounds without nary a peep from 
him.  The further fox was nowhere to be found.  

Please join us tomorrow afternoon and evening.
 
1) Hail signs  (first letter or two of the suffix of your call)
2) NCS help  (as well as QSP/QNP  help)
 
Sunday 2200z (Sunday 3 PM PDT) 14050 kHz
Monday z (Sunday 5 PM PDT)  7045 kHz
 
   Stay well,
  Kevin.  KD5ONS
 
-
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Re: [Elecraft] Some thoughts on the K3 as an emergency communications station

[Joe Planisky]

> - Bulletproof receiver

Given some of the troubled spots in the world today, let's hope no one  
takes that literally :-)

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Aug 28, 2010, at 8:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Most of our customers choose the K3 for its contesting or DX
> performance. But with all the world-wide flooding, earthquakes, and
> heat waves and power-outages we've seen this year, I'm reflecting on
> how the K3 can serve as a flexible station for emergency  
> communications.

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Re: [Elecraft] Some thoughts on the K3 as an emergency communications station

[Lew Phelps K6LMP]

This is one of the main reasons I got re-involved in ham radio after many 
years, and why I chose the K3 (after several years playing around with Yaesu 
rigs). I live in Southern California, and I know that some day -- it's a matter 
when, not whether -- we will have The Big One. I know that there will be no 
communication capability whatsoever, other than amateur radio. The K3 is 
perfectly suited to this assignment. Coupled with a home-brew version of the 
Buddipole antenna system and a battery pack (thanks to Niel WA7SSA) I feel well 
prepared to communicate under any circumstance.


Lew K6LMP


On Aug 28, 2010, at 8:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Most of our customers choose the K3 for its contesting or DX  
> performance. But with all the world-wide flooding, earthquakes, and  
> heat waves and power-outages we've seen this year, I'm reflecting on  
> how the K3 can serve as a flexible station for emergency communications.
> 
> Here's a brief list of K3 features that could help in such situations:
> 
> - Only about 9 pounds, and sized so it's easy to carry to any location.
> 
> - Bulletproof receiver--important for multi-transmitter environments.  
> (If you have to set up more than one HF/VHF station in a small area,  
> you'll want them not to interfere with each other.)
> 
> - Coverage of HF and SW broadcast, as well as two local/emergency  
> bands (6 and 2 meters).
> 
> - Low receive-mode current drain (about 1 amp) for extended operating  
> time when using batteries, solar panels, etc. Most radios with  
> comparable performance have current drain three times higher, and even  
> garden-variety radios are usually in the 2-amp-plus range. In transmit  
> mode, current drain can be very low at QRP power levels (12 watts or  
> less) because the PA is completely turned off.
> 
> - Runs from up to a 15-V supply, but usable down to as low as about 10  
> V in a pinch, thanks to the use of low-dropout voltage regulators.  
> Also, we selected the APP power connector specifically because it is  
> as close to a standard as exists in the portable-comms world; you'll  
> be able to "borrow" power when you need to.
> 
> - Wide-range ATU matches nearly any ad-hoc field antenna. Many built- 
> in ATUs cover only a very small range, while the KAT3 can easily match  
> loads with SWRs of 10:1, and in some cases (at QRP levels) far higher.  
> The two antenna jacks allow instant A/B testing on individual signals.
> 
> - High-performance sub receiver with true diversity receive; could  
> help copy traffic in difficult conditions.
> 
> - Built-ins that reduce the need for other equipment: real time clock  
> (with alarm), calendar, digital metering (current, voltage,  
> temperature, SWR, power).
> 
> - DVR and CW/DATA auto-repeating messages for beacon or net use, and  
> built-in text decode/display for copying bulletins (PSK31, RTTY, CW).
> 
> - And if you have room for a P3 at your emergency operating position,  
> you'll be able to find weak signals calling without endless tuning of  
> the VFO :)
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] S-Meter nd RF Gain Control.

[Chris Hembree]

I have my K3 completed for all but this part. I ran the K3 utility. At this 
point I don't have a signal generator to run this test.
How important is this?
Thanks
Chris W7cth



  
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Re: [Elecraft] Need K3 dB Measurements on new 160M Antenna

[David Cutter]

I would try a chart recorder in this arrangement; there's no mistaking which 
channel is which.  Of course use a modern version using pc sound card then 
you can squash up or expand the results for examination.

David
G3UNA




> Alas, after years of doing A/B manual coax switch tests, I have given
> up on that exposing anything better than 10 db differences on anything
> other than stable local signals.  And that is suspect because it is
> often ground wave, which bears no resemblance to sky wave.
>
> I built a 60 hz switch which used 12VAC plus and negative to
> alternately bias off left and right diodes connecting a common RF
> output port to two RF input ports.  Being careful to use no AGC or
> very slow AGC, this presented an audio from the RX which showed to an
> oscilloscope the signal comparison between A and B that could be
> measured on the scope and converted to dB.
>
> I also quickly learned that I had no hope whatsoever of perceiving a
> difference less than 3 dB in my ear and didn't do all that well with
> less than 6.
>
> I used that to compare signals on various antennas and showed it to
> the owner.  But so ingrained is the idea of manual A/B coax switching
> that he was back to judging results the old way, and discarding
> methods that gained a dB here and there, because "he couldn't hear it,
> and was going to trust his ears."
>
> The main problem of the device was an unambiguous way of identifying
> the port on the oscilloscope display.  I have an idea of using a PIC
> device instead of the house AC to create the switching intervals, one
> which starts a sequence with a "long" A port and ends with a long B
> port and 8 regular ports in between, with a space between the two long
> ports. That would always unambiguously identify the A and B signals.
> Follow that with a program to analyze the audio levels and present
> peaks, minimums and averages for both signals and signal-to-noise, and
> you now have an antenna analyzer that can show you real differences
> between antennas real-time.
>
> To me anyway, that sounds like a tailor-made Elecraft gizmo kit.  I
> think you could sell tens of thousands of those.  Really surprised
> something like that not already around and part of during-contest
> comparisons between antennas.
>
> If the gizmo had the ability to decode the results and put it on a LED
> display marked with port A on one end and port B on the other, with
> the middle LED meaning equal, with two or three ranges, it would be
> the cat's meow for comparing two antennas.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Graham Kimbell G3TCT
>  wrote:
>> Jim
>> Afraid I can't help with listening on 160, but an interesting topic, and
>> a measurement technique applicable to other situations. My observation
>> is that the mental averaging will be rather tricky, especially if the
>> QSB is slow and unpredictable. What we need is something (software?)
>> which will record the strength seen by the K3 over a minute or 3, and
>> then provide a statistical analysis. You would then get a picture of the
>> average, peak, trough and distribution of strengths.
>> I wonder if something like this exists already - or could be included in
>> P3 s/w?
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> On 19:59, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> Crew,
>>>
>>> I've put up a pair of new antennas for 160M that are predicted to have
>>> about 3dB of gain over my existing vertical. Without going into a lot of
>>> detail, each antenna is a wire sloping off of my 120 ft tower, one going
>>> east, one going west. The tower acts as a reflector. The tower and each
>>> wire have 4 elevated radials. The antenna is working -- I've made four 
>>> QSOs
>>> with VK, one with FK8, and one with FO in about two hours -- but I need 
>>> to
>>> figure out if it's working better than my existing omni vertical.
>>>
>>> By doing a lot of listening, I can clearly confirm the predicted 6dB or 
>>> so
>>> of front to back, but QSB makes it hard to get a handle on gain, and I'm
>>> only expecting 2-3dB. That's where the dB meter in the K3 comes in 
>>> handy.
>>>
>>> My method is to key down on one antenna for a while, let you get a 
>>> reading,
>>> switch to the other and do the same, then back and forth between them,
>>> again for long enough for you to get a good reading. There IS a lot of 
>>> QSB
>>> on the band, so you'll need to do a lot of mental averaging. Please let 
>>> me
>>> know, OFFF THE LIST, if this is something that you would like to help me
>>> with. I need reports from stations that are between about 30 degrees
>>> azimuth and 120 degrees azimuth of my QTH south of San Francisco. In 
>>> other
>>> words, my antenna is aimed at about 75 degrees (ENE), and I need reports
>>> that are within 50 degrees of being on axis. I could also use 
>>> measurements
>>> from KH6 of the antenna that goes in that direction.
>>>
>>> BTW -- to access the dB meter in the K3, you need to hit the Display 
>>> button
>>> once, then rotate the second VFO knob clockwise until

[Elecraft] K2/100 low output power on 10-15 meters

[Mike and Alicia Fanning]

Hi all,
I have just finished building and testing my KPA100 kit, and the power  
output seems low (87-89 Watts) on 10, 12, and 15 meters.  Is this  
typical?  I have triple checked that the parts are installed properly  
in the 10-15m low pass filter stage, and everything looks good there.   
After verifying the LPF was okay, I went back and measured output  
power from the K2 without the KPA100 installed.  Here are the  
numbers.  The first column is the band in question, second is the  
transmit power without the KPA100 installed (barefoot), third is with  
the KPA100 installed but powered through the original low power DC  
input (amp installed but bypassed), and the fourth is with the KPA100  
installed and powered through the KPA100 high power DC input (amp  
installed and active).

10m8W   7.5W87W
12m9.75W  9W   87W
15m11.5W  10.5W  89W
17m12W 11W 106W
20m12W 11W 100W
30m13W 11W 106W
40m14W 11.5W  107W
80m13.5W  11W 105W
160m  12.5W  12W 111W

When the KPA is hooked in but bypassed (column 3), why is the power  
output lowered?  Is it because of the second set of low pass filters  
(on the KPA100 board) coming in line?  I was surprised to see the  
transmit power level drop so much if this is the cause.

Are my barefoot numbers fairly typical?  Looks like the KPA is giving  
me pretty consistent gain, so do I need to be looking upstream  
somewhere in the original K2?  If so, why the big jump on the KPA100  
output between 15 and 17 meters?

Any thoughts or ideas appreciated.

Thanks and 73,
Mike Fanning, K4GU
K2 #5882
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Re: [Elecraft] Need K3 dB Measurements on new 160M Antenna

[David Gilbert]

Why not just use the two receivers in the K3 ... one using the main 
antenna port and the other using the RX antenna antenna port.  Take the 
output from the LINE OUT port and feed it into a computer sound card to 
record the resultant audio in stereo.  You can then compare anything you 
want by looking at the waveforms side by side in an audio editor 
(Audacity is free) with a db scale.  The comparison will be almost 
instantaneous, and if you use a tone for the signal you can take out the 
noise using a bandpass filter in the editor.  If you don't trust the 
receivers to be identical, run the test both ways.   If you run the 
recorded file through Spectrogram you can expand the db scale for 
whatever precision you want.

73,
Dave   AB7E

>> Alas, after years of doing A/B manual coax switch tests, I have given
>> up on that exposing anything better than 10 db differences on anything
>> other than stable local signals.  And that is suspect because it is
>> often ground wave, which bears no resemblance to sky wave.
>>
>> I built a 60 hz switch which used 12VAC plus and negative to
>> alternately bias off left and right diodes connecting a common RF
>> output port to two RF input ports.  Being careful to use no AGC or
>> very slow AGC, this presented an audio from the RX which showed to an
>> oscilloscope the signal comparison between A and B that could be
>> measured on the scope and converted to dB.
>>
>> I also quickly learned that I had no hope whatsoever of perceiving a
>> difference less than 3 dB in my ear and didn't do all that well with
>> less than 6.
>>
>> I used that to compare signals on various antennas and showed it to
>> the owner.  But so ingrained is the idea of manual A/B coax switching
>> that he was back to judging results the old way, and discarding
>> methods that gained a dB here and there, because "he couldn't hear it,
>> and was going to trust his ears."
>>
>> The main problem of the device was an unambiguous way of identifying
>> the port on the oscilloscope display.  I have an idea of using a PIC
>> device instead of the house AC to create the switching intervals, one
>> which starts a sequence with a "long" A port and ends with a long B
>> port and 8 regular ports in between, with a space between the two long
>> ports. That would always unambiguously identify the A and B signals.
>> Follow that with a program to analyze the audio levels and present
>> peaks, minimums and averages for both signals and signal-to-noise, and
>> you now have an antenna analyzer that can show you real differences
>> between antennas real-time.
>>
>> To me anyway, that sounds like a tailor-made Elecraft gizmo kit.  I
>> think you could sell tens of thousands of those.  Really surprised
>> something like that not already around and part of during-contest
>> comparisons between antennas.
>>
>> If the gizmo had the ability to decode the results and put it on a LED
>> display marked with port A on one end and port B on the other, with
>> the middle LED meaning equal, with two or three ranges, it would be
>> the cat's meow for comparing two antennas.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
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