Re: [Elecraft] separating RFI from band noise, PX3

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,3/25/2016 4:29 PM, Greg Troxel wrote:

Jim Brown  writes:


Yet another example of a switch-mode power supply.  Here's a
preliminary version of k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf  that might
help.

I see you mention a 10 dB increase in levels between band closed and
band open, with the notion that if you don't see that, you have too much
local noise.  That makes a lot of sense for bands like 15m.  I don't
quite follow how one can use that rule of thumb on 6m.


Most noise sources get weaker with increasing frequency, so there tends 
to be less noise on 10M and 6M because there's so there's much less to 
propagate.



For 80m, presumably it should be quieter in the day.


Yes, and on 160M too.


I wonder if it's possible to have any quantitative norms.  For example,
looking at the waterfall on 30m with a 50 kHz span, and ref of -110 dBm,
I'm seeing a lot of black pixels with a fair number of dark blue.


Most spectrum analyzers are best used by setting  the threshold at the 
noise floor, and with averaging set to the maximum for the amplitude 
display. This will cause random noise to average out, making signals and 
correlated noise stand out.  Do NOT use waterfall averaging.  Also, use 
reasonable settings for SCALE -- I use 24 dB for general operating to 
find signals on a dead band, etc. and 42 dB for contests where many 
stations are running high power into big antennas. The only time I use a 
wider scale than that is when I want to look at sidebands of a 
transmitter working into a dummy load.



  There
are a few solid lines that are obviously interference.  And I see some
short-duration broadband pulses (horizontal lines).  So I think I have
some issues, while others might find that better than usual.

Clearly some noise sources are obvious on the panadaptor.  But most of
what I'm seeing is not obvious.  In the end I suspect that trying to
decide if I have local noise by making measurements is not going to work
or be all that useful.  (Certainly measuring with power off makes sense,
and the open-vs-closed band levels is something I'll probably try to
really measure.)


Don't view this as a "measurement," but rather as a graphic view of your 
RF environment.  Also, the settings noted above can help.



Also when using the PX3, I realize that the levels can be interpreted in
two ways.  For signals narrower than the bin size, it seems that one
should read the level as the power in the bin and hence the signal.  But
for broad noise that is much bigger than bins, I think one should be
thinking in terms of dBm/Hz.  In other words, choosing a 5x narrower
span doesn't change the level of a carrier, but it lowers broadband
noise 5x.  So referring to "-100 dBm" seems to require giving the span
(or really the bin size, if one is comparing to non-Elecraft panadaptors).


Yes, this is generally true, and the P3 can be set to automatically 
change the scale to compensate when changing the bin size (scan width). 
I don't remember if the PX3 firmware has that feature. But we don't care 
all that much about absolute levels unless we're measuring something, 
and when chasing noise, we're usually not measuring (except, of course, 
for seeing how much we've suppressed a noise source by applying a fix). 
But none of this logic applies -- we don't care about absolute levels, 
we only want to know if our fix helped and how much.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] K3, KX-1 Inductors

[Scott Ellington]

My K3 hasn't traveled much, but if it did, I'd be very concerned about 
all the inductors supported only by their leads.  It seems certain that 
vibration would result in leads breaking.  However, there's a note in 
the KX-1 assembly manual specifically warning against fastening the 
inductors to the board with adhesive.  (That's exactly what I was 
planning to do.)  Why not?  I doubt the reason is electrical, unless 
it's stray capacitance.  The only other reason I can think of is that 
those handling power might get hot enough to melt an adhesive.  If 
that's the case, I'd really like to find another way to secure them.  
Any suggestions?


Or maybe someone can assure me that with all those K3 getting shipped 
all over the planet for DX-peditions, etc., none of those wires ever 
break.  Ever.  (I'd still take along some magnet wire.)


73,

Scott  K9MA

--
Scott Ellington  K9MA
Madison, Wisconsin, USA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] Delayed Options

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

Yes, that’s correct.  Autocorrect strikes again … :-)

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




> On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:18 PM, K9ZTV  wrote:
> 
> The name you're looking for is eneloop pro (all lower case).
> 
> K9ZTV 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2016, at 7:36 PM, GRANT YOUNGMAN  wrote:
>> 
>> Continuous “trickle charging” is neither necessary nor desired if you use 
>> low self-discharge NiMH cells.  The preferred ones around here are Envelop 
>> Pros — 2550 mah, and they will retain 75-85% of their charge for a year or 
>> more in storage.  They cost a bit more than the cheap stuff, but you don’t 
>> want to use high self-discharge cells anyway.
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Bill Frantz]

I had this problem in spades finding an antenna to use on my 
Miata with a Yeasu FTM-10R, which does 2M and 70Ccm along with 
AM and FM broadcast. The FTM-10R manual says, “NOTE: An 
antenna designed with a matching device that forms a low DC 
resistance to ground may have poor recep on on the AM

Page 2
broadcast band.”

I finally parked the car outside our local Ham Radio Outlet and 
took antenna after antenna out to try them. I ended up with a 
Larson NMO-2/70 SH antenna which would receive AM and work on 
all the rest of the bands. In addition, it is quite small and 
doesn’t overwhelm the car.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/25/16 at 2:27 PM, pin...@erols.com (Charlie T, K3ICH) wrote:






OR buy a 5/8 wave base-loaded 2m mobile whip -
loads on 50-MHz very nicely.  That's an old trick
for dual-band 6m/2m use.  Try brands like Larsen
or Maxrad.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com


This only works for a 5/8  wave 2 M antenna where
the base inductor (It's NOT a * loading coil)
isn't tapped and grounded at one end.   In other words, if 
there is a single connection to

the antenna, this will work.
If there's a ground connection such that the
inductor is tapped up the coil it will not
function on 50 MHz.
The Larson LM series will work, but ones designed
for the Motorola (NMO) base will not.
73, Charlie k3ICH

* A 5/8 wave antenna presents roughly 50 Ohms
resistive and some level of capacitive (-J)
reactance.
In order to match this impedance, a series
inductor is required to cancel the capacitive
reactance, So technically, it is not a "loading" which would
be designed to make up for the fact that an
antenna is too short for a ¼ wave resonance.



---
Bill Frantz| Privacy is dead, get over| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | it.  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  - Scott McNealy | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Delayed Options

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

Continuous “trickle charging” is neither necessary nor desired if you use low 
self-discharge NiMH cells.  The preferred ones around here are Envelop Pros — 
2550 mah, and they will retain 75-85% of their charge for a year or more in 
storage.  They cost a bit more than the cheap stuff, but you don’t want to use 
high self-discharge cells anyway.

Typically, I let my internal pack deplete to around 9v or a bit less, and then 
set an overnight charge for 12 hours.  The KX3 has a smart charger, so it won’t 
cook your cells.

Even if you normally use an external battery pack or power supply, it’s a good 
thing to have the internal batteries for a “light” portable operation or if the 
DX is so good you drain your external battery pack :-)  Makes life a lot 
easier, and there’s less to haul around.

And yes, you DO make use of the 3 KHz roofing filter on SSB, and it is of value.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




> 
> 2) I would have skipped the Battery Charger - Had I known that the charger 
> had to be manually enabled every time (i.e. its not always ‘trickle 
> charging’) and that you had to ‘guess’ for how long it needed to be on, I 
> would have skipped it as I don’t see a whole lot of value in that.
> 3) I’d delay getting the Roofing Filters. I’m not sure I’m even using them as 
> I’m not a CW operator.
> 

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[Elecraft] separating RFI from band noise, PX3

[Greg Troxel]

Jim Brown  writes:

> Yet another example of a switch-mode power supply.  Here's a
> preliminary version of k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf  that might
> help.

I see you mention a 10 dB increase in levels between band closed and
band open, with the notion that if you don't see that, you have too much
local noise.  That makes a lot of sense for bands like 15m.  I don't
quite follow how one can use that rule of thumb on 6m.  For 80m,
presumably it should be quieter in the day.

I've been looking at various bands with a PX3.  Certainly my outside
(80m dipole ish) antenna is quieter than my attic dipole, but some times
it's pretty close -- presumably that's when band noise dominates.

I wonder if it's possible to have any quantitative norms.  For example,
looking at the waterfall on 30m with a 50 kHz span, and ref of -110 dBm,
I'm seeing a lot of black pixels with a fair number of dark blue.  There
are a few solid lines that are obviously interference.  And I see some
short-duration broadband pulses (horizontal lines).  So I think I have
some issues, while others might find that better than usual.

Clearly some noise sources are obvious on the panadaptor.  But most of
what I'm seeing is not obvious.  In the end I suspect that trying to
decide if I have local noise by making measurements is not going to work
or be all that useful.  (Certainly measuring with power off makes sense,
and the open-vs-closed band levels is something I'll probably try to
really measure.)

Also when using the PX3, I realize that the levels can be interpreted in
two ways.  For signals narrower than the bin size, it seems that one
should read the level as the power in the bin and hence the signal.  But
for broad noise that is much bigger than bins, I think one should be
thinking in terms of dBm/Hz.  In other words, choosing a 5x narrower
span doesn't change the level of a carrier, but it lowers broadband
noise 5x.  So referring to "-100 dBm" seems to require giving the span
(or really the bin size, if one is comparing to non-Elecraft
panadaptors).

73 de n1dam
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[Elecraft] K3 <--> K3 via RemoteRig: Audio recording

[Fred Jensen]

Hoping someone knows:  If I am logged into my remote K3 via RemoteRig 
and I tap REC M1 on my control K3, will it record my mic audio on the 
remote K3?  If so, will tapping M1 on my control K3 play that audio on 
the air from the remote K3?


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

OR buy a 5/8 wave base-loaded 2m mobile whip -
loads on 50-MHz very nicely.  That's an old trick
for dual-band 6m/2m use.  Try brands like Larsen
or Maxrad.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com


This only works for a 5/8  wave 2 M antenna where
the base inductor (It's NOT a * loading coil)
isn't tapped and grounded at one end.   
In other words, if there is a single connection to
the antenna, this will work.
If there's a ground connection such that the
inductor is tapped up the coil it will not
function on 50 MHz.
The Larson LM series will work, but ones designed
for the Motorola (NMO) base will not. 

73, Charlie k3ICH

* A 5/8 wave antenna presents roughly 50 Ohms
resistive and some level of capacitive (-J)
reactance.
In order to match this impedance, a series
inductor is required to cancel the capacitive
reactance, 
So technically, it is not a "loading" which would
be designed to make up for the fact that an
antenna is too short for a ¼ wave resonance.




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Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

[Gary Smith]

Something I should add that I've done in the past when it comes to 
insulating washers that do not have any significant voltage to them, 
as well as washers used to keep paint intact when a screw is 
tightened, is use plastic milk jug material.

you can easily cut the perimeter with scissors or if you have 
excessive OCD, you can take a pipe with the ID the right size, bevel 
the outside of the end to a point and use it with a block of wood on 
the other side, on the table as a punch, remove the wafer, then drill 
the center hole exactly the right size. Cheap, effective and in your 
fridge, right next to the IPA.

73,

Gary
KA1J



> Greetings -
> 
> I am restoring a J-38 key. I have all the parts EXCEPT the little 
> insulating washers that insulate one of the inside binding post from the 
> base/trunion piece.   They key, as it is, shows a continuous short.
> 
> Any clue where I can find them?
> OR  a suggestion as to what I can use, instead ?
> 
> Thanks loads -- I can provide a photo showing the specific parts I need 
> if that helps.
> 
> --- James - K8JHR 

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Edward R Cole]

Since folks are talking adding a top hat or base loading coil, why 
not just extend the length of the vertical to a full 1/4 
wavelength?  1/4WL = 248/50.1 MHz = 4.95 feet (59, 3/8-inch).


Connect a small alligator clip to a 11-inch piece of hookup wire and 
suspend the wire with a piece of cord to "something", OR uses heavier 
stiff wire that will self-support.


Now you have a resonant 1/4 wave vertical.

OR buy a 5/8 wave base-loaded 2m mobile whip - loads on 50-MHz very 
nicely.  That's an old trick for dual-band 6m/2m use.  Try brands 
like Larsen or Maxrad.


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Oops, that was meant for Richards. 

-Original Message-
From: Ron D'Eau Claire [mailto:r...@cobi.biz] 
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:34 PM
To: 'Kevin Cozens'; 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

Hello Kevin:

You can't have the washers out of my trusty J38 but I have a suggestion. 

I have gotten away with just substituting flat fibre washers in such places.
I realize they don't have the "lip" that keeps the screw centered in the
hole, but in normal use there isn't enough pressure on it to cause the screw
to move, once it's tightened in place. 

Many hardware stores carry them. 

If you really want "original" parts with the centering lip, check out
Vibroplex. They sell parts for every key they ever made! I believe that part
number 8035 on their original Bug is what you need. 

www.Vibroplex.com.

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
Cozens
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 11:35 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

On 16-03-25 02:18 PM, Richards wrote:
> I am restoring a J-38 key. I have all the parts EXCEPT the little 
> insulating washers that insulate one of the inside binding post from 
> the base/trunion piece.
[snip]
> Any clue where I can find them?
> OR  a suggestion as to what I can use, instead ?

If you can't find original replacement washers you could look at getting
someone to 3D print some replacements.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.


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Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Hello Kevin:

You can't have the washers out of my trusty J38 but I have a suggestion. 

I have gotten away with just substituting flat fibre washers in such places.
I realize they don't have the "lip" that keeps the screw centered in the
hole, but in normal use there isn't enough pressure on it to cause the screw
to move, once it's tightened in place. 

Many hardware stores carry them. 

If you really want "original" parts with the centering lip, check out
Vibroplex. They sell parts for every key they ever made! I believe that part
number 8035 on their original Bug is what you need. 

www.Vibroplex.com.

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
Cozens
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 11:35 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

On 16-03-25 02:18 PM, Richards wrote:
> I am restoring a J-38 key. I have all the parts EXCEPT the little 
> insulating washers that insulate one of the inside binding post from 
> the base/trunion piece.
[snip]
> Any clue where I can find them?
> OR  a suggestion as to what I can use, instead ?

If you can't find original replacement washers you could look at getting
someone to 3D print some replacements.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.


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Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

[EricJ]

I think it's just called a shoulder washer or shoulder spacer.

Eric
KE6US

On 3/25/2016 11:18 AM, Richards wrote:
I am restoring a J-38 key. I have all the parts EXCEPT the little 
insulating washers


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Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

[EricJ]

You can find them at some Ace Hardware stores, but they are nylon so 
they won't match the color of the originals. Unless the particular key 
has historical value, that shouldn't matter.


You'll have to find an Ace that isn't all yuppified trying to compete 
with big box stores. Find an old fashioned hardware store. I buy them 
all the time in our local Ace which we still call Bauman's even though 
it has been Ace for 30+ years. That's the kind of place you're looking for.


Eric
KE6US

On 3/25/2016 11:18 AM, Richards wrote:

Greetings -

I am restoring a J-38 key. I have all the parts EXCEPT the little 
insulating washers that insulate one of the inside binding post from 
the base/trunion piece.   They key, as it is, shows a continuous short.


Any clue where I can find them?
OR  a suggestion as to what I can use, instead ?

Thanks loads -- I can provide a photo showing the specific parts I 
need if that helps.


--- James - K8JHR 



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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Wayne Burdick]

> But I can testify that from my experience working QRP in major DX contests, a 
> few dB can be the difference between making a QSO or not, mostly based on the 
> noise level at the other end. And 7+ dB is a LOT.

That's true. But when I'm out hiking, doing quick deployments, I'm willing to 
accept -7 dB. Band not open enough? Enjoy the scenery.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,3/25/2016 9:31 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Jim Brown  wrote:


>A #22 wire taped to a telescoping fiberglass pole can easily be wedged between 
the seat and the top of a typical picnic table...

True enough, but the whip, when collapsed, is a lot shorter.


No doubt, and the whip is less weight to carry. That's part of the cost 
of 7+ dB. All of life is a series of compromises, and when we're lucky, 
we get to choose. :) To me, they're all tools in the kit.


But I can testify that from my experience working QRP in major DX 
contests, a few dB can be the difference between making a QSO or not, 
mostly based on the noise level at the other end. And 7+ dB is a LOT.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] RARSfest - booth assistance requested

[Don Wilhelm]

For hams in and around the Raleigh, NC area.

Elecraft will have a booth at RARSfest again this year.  April 2 in the 
Jim Graham Building of the NC State Fairgrounds.
If any of you are in the area and could spend a half hour or an hour 
assisting at the booth, that would be appreciated.  All equipment needed 
is already committed.


Also if anyone is interested is helping with booth setup Friday April 1, 
please let me know.  I have a vendor pass for the 1st 3 who volunteer 
for setup (we start at 5PM) and you can enjoy the free Vendor's Welcome 
Supper compliments of RARS at 7-9PM.


Please let me know if you can assist.

73,
Don W3FPR
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Digest, Vol 143, Issue 28

[wn5tkl-gmail]

28. OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT (Richards) 29. Re: OT -- J-38 part 
needed . . . OT (Kevin Cozens)



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For replacement washers, you might try Digikey.  They carry all sorts of 
goodies.  Also, All Electronics carries a wide variety of washers.


Ron W7HD

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Re: [Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

[Kevin Cozens]

On 16-03-25 02:18 PM, Richards wrote:

I am restoring a J-38 key. I have all the parts EXCEPT the little insulating
washers that insulate one of the inside binding post from the base/trunion
piece.

[snip]

Any clue where I can find them?
OR  a suggestion as to what I can use, instead ?


If you can't find original replacement washers you could look at getting 
someone to 3D print some replacements.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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[Elecraft] OT -- J-38 part needed . . . OT

[Richards]

Greetings -

I am restoring a J-38 key. I have all the parts EXCEPT the little 
insulating washers that insulate one of the inside binding post from the 
base/trunion piece.   They key, as it is, shows a continuous short.


Any clue where I can find them?
OR  a suggestion as to what I can use, instead ?

Thanks loads -- I can provide a photo showing the specific parts I need 
if that helps.


--- James - K8JHR 



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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Wayne Burdick]

Jim Brown  wrote:

> A #22 wire taped to a telescoping fiberglass pole can easily be wedged 
> between the seat and the top of a typical picnic table...

True enough, but the whip, when collapsed, is a lot shorter.

Wayne
N6KR




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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

I'm quoting your entire message because it's exactly right on all counts.

73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,3/25/2016 8:44 AM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:

Raising the counterpoise a foot or more above ground rather than just throwing 
it on the ground will have the effect of reducing ground losses and getting 
more signal radiated.  So rather than just toss the counterpoise wire on the 
ground, it’s a good thing to keep it elevated — run it from where you have it 
connected (e.g., table top) out to a bush, a branch, to a fiberglass driveway 
marker stuck in the ground, whatever’s available.  I carry a piece of small 
para-cord so I can tie the winder that holds my radial wire off to something.  
If you’re inside on a second floor, it may not matter much, but at a typical 
field site with lousy soil conductivity it can.

A single elevated radial will also cause a very slight distortion in the usual 
uniform radiation pattern with max response in the direction of the radial.  
Two elevated radial wires (at about 180 deg) give you the more usual 
non-directional pattern.


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Re: [Elecraft] PX3 BETA Firmware 1.42 Now Available

[Nakamura]

Hi Paul / N6HZ

I’ve downloaded the beta version 1.42.

And I tried to install the beta version, but the PX3 will become off.

I tried to install the current version, the PX3 does not turn off.

Best regard,

Nakamura / JE0LFI
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

Yes, any antenna that's deployed beats one that isn't. :)  But a #22 
wire taped to a telescoping fiberglass pole can easily be wedged between 
the seat and the top of a typical picnic table, and another #22 laid on 
the ground. There's a photo on my qrz.com page of me doing exactly that 
from a suburban Chicago park c.a. 2004. You'll recognize the radio.


73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,3/25/2016 8:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual weight-tossing 
wild-west antenna deployment routine.


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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

Just a minor point. Raising the counterpoise a foot or more above ground rather 
than just throwing it on the ground will have the effect of reducing ground 
losses and getting more signal radiated.  So rather than just toss the 
counterpoise wire on the ground, it’s a good thing to keep it elevated — run it 
from where you have it connected (e.g., table top) out to a bush, a branch, to 
a fiberglass driveway marker stuck in the ground, whatever’s available.  I 
carry a piece of small para-cord so I can tie the winder that holds my radial 
wire off to something.  If you’re inside on a second floor, it may not matter 
much, but at a typical field site with lousy soil conductivity it can.

A single elevated radial will also cause a very slight distortion in the usual 
uniform radiation pattern with max response in the direction of the radial.  
Two elevated radial wires (at about 180 deg) give you the more usual 
non-directional pattern.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




> On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:00 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Like I implied in my posting, portable operation is often more about 
> convenience than signal strength. 
> 
> Your estimate of around 7 dB sounds reasonable. That's about 1.5 S-units, to 
> use the vernacular. When a band is open, this loss still allows a lot of 
> contacts to be made.
> 
> Example: A couple of months ago my son and I were doing a bit of hiking/bird 
> watching at Redwood Shores. While Griffin stalked hooded mergansers with his 
> camera, I quickly set up my KX3 at a picnic table. I attached the whip with a 
> right-angle BNC, along with the 13' counterpoise wire. 20 meter CW was very 
> active with EU contest stations, most of them probably running a KW ("or 
> so"). I called several of them running 5 W, and worked most of them on one 
> call. 
> 
> I may have been down 7 dB from a full-size vertical, but I got through 
> nonetheless. And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual 
> weight-tossing wild-west antenna deployment routine.
> 
> Sometimes size doesn't matter.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Gene Gabry]

It's all about making contacts anyway you can and having fun doing it!

Gene, N9TF

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 10:00 AM
To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band
whips for KX3, etc.

Jim,

Like I implied in my posting, portable operation is often more about
convenience than signal strength. 

Your estimate of around 7 dB sounds reasonable. That's about 1.5 S-units, to
use the vernacular. When a band is open, this loss still allows a lot of
contacts to be made.

Example: A couple of months ago my son and I were doing a bit of hiking/bird
watching at Redwood Shores. While Griffin stalked hooded mergansers with his
camera, I quickly set up my KX3 at a picnic table. I attached the whip with
a right-angle BNC, along with the 13' counterpoise wire. 20 meter CW was
very active with EU contest stations, most of them probably running a KW
("or so"). I called several of them running 5 W, and worked most of them on
one call. 

I may have been down 7 dB from a full-size vertical, but I got through
nonetheless. And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual
weight-tossing wild-west antenna deployment routine.

Sometimes size doesn't matter.

Wayne
N6KR


On Mar 24, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:

> On Wed,3/23/2016 7:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use
it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
> 
> As Tom Schiller, N6BT, famously noted, EVERYTHING WORKS, sort of. He
demonstrated this by working all continents loading a lightbulb that he fed
with coax. Tom is the designer of the excellent Force 12 antennas.
> 
> I just did a quick NEC model of a 4 ft vertical with loading coil and a
single quarter-wave radial laying on the ground, and compared it with a
quarter-wave vertical (16.7 ft) with the same single radial. The model is
for poor soil, which is typical of most mountainous QTHs. The full-size
quarter-wave will be 7.4 dB louder than the shortened one. That's equivalent
to reducing a 15W signal to 3W. The difference is slightly greater over
better than average ground. The reduced efficiency is due to the greatly
reduced radiation resistance of the shortened antenna.
> 
> Bottom line -- yes, shortened antennas work, sort of, but full-size
antennas work BETTER. If you can afford the weight of a means to support the
longer antenna (typically a telescoping fiberglass pole), it's well worth
it! And if a shorter antenna MUST be used, LONGER antenna, LESS coil is
better.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Wayne Burdick]

Jim,

Like I implied in my posting, portable operation is often more about 
convenience than signal strength. 

Your estimate of around 7 dB sounds reasonable. That's about 1.5 S-units, to 
use the vernacular. When a band is open, this loss still allows a lot of 
contacts to be made.

Example: A couple of months ago my son and I were doing a bit of hiking/bird 
watching at Redwood Shores. While Griffin stalked hooded mergansers with his 
camera, I quickly set up my KX3 at a picnic table. I attached the whip with a 
right-angle BNC, along with the 13' counterpoise wire. 20 meter CW was very 
active with EU contest stations, most of them probably running a KW ("or so"). 
I called several of them running 5 W, and worked most of them on one call. 

I may have been down 7 dB from a full-size vertical, but I got through 
nonetheless. And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual 
weight-tossing wild-west antenna deployment routine.

Sometimes size doesn't matter.

Wayne
N6KR


On Mar 24, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:

> On Wed,3/23/2016 7:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months. 
>> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use 
>> it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or 
>> hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
> 
> As Tom Schiller, N6BT, famously noted, EVERYTHING WORKS, sort of. He 
> demonstrated this by working all continents loading a lightbulb that he fed 
> with coax. Tom is the designer of the excellent Force 12 antennas.
> 
> I just did a quick NEC model of a 4 ft vertical with loading coil and a 
> single quarter-wave radial laying on the ground, and compared it with a 
> quarter-wave vertical (16.7 ft) with the same single radial. The model is for 
> poor soil, which is typical of most mountainous QTHs. The full-size 
> quarter-wave will be 7.4 dB louder than the shortened one. That's equivalent 
> to reducing a 15W signal to 3W. The difference is slightly greater over 
> better than average ground. The reduced efficiency is due to the greatly 
> reduced radiation resistance of the shortened antenna.
> 
> Bottom line -- yes, shortened antennas work, sort of, but full-size antennas 
> work BETTER. If you can afford the weight of a means to support the longer 
> antenna (typically a telescoping fiberglass pole), it's well worth it! And if 
> a shorter antenna MUST be used, LONGER antenna, LESS coil is better.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Brendon Whateley]

Thanks for the Mac pointer and advice. Now to see if I can find enough time
to do some modeling.

I do software stuff and spend a lot of time in the "Console" -- Windows
version of that is just so clunky... shudder -- At least the mac is Unix
like so matches all the servers with run Linux. Don't forget Windows has
been training users on their version of UI for 20 odd years. It may take
more than 5 minutes to figure out Mac or Linux. But neither is too hard to
pick up. In fact, Linux has a "Redmond" mode if you really need it to look
similar.

- Brendon

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:

> The place to look for Mac ham radio stuff is  >.
>
> I have used Koc Chen's cocoaNEC <
> http://www.w7ay.net/site/Applications/cocoaNEC/index.html> for antenna
> modelling. It is quite usable.
>
> [Unlike Jim, I haven't been able to recover from developing software for
> Windows at work in the late 1990s. The only way I survived was using Cygwin
> -- a Unix shell and environment for Windows.]
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 3/24/16 at 10:01 PM, bren...@whateley.com (Brendon Whateley) wrote:
>
> Is there a suitable modeling software for the Mac? I've not had a Windows
>> machine in the house since XP was shiny and new...
>>
>
> ---
> Bill Frantz| "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the
> 408-356-8506   | intelligence.  There's a knob called "brightness",
> but
> www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Too much of a good thing is just fine

[John Pitz]

There is truth to the boat thing...  Anyone here interested in buying a
1978 San Juan 28 sailboat?  She has been very well maintained.
Currently she is in Saint Joseph, MI.


On Thu, 2016-03-24 at 21:56 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:

> Na, it could be worse.
> You could be buying or building boats.
> A boat being defined as a "hole in the water you pour money into".
> 
> On 3/24/2016 1:35 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:
> > sorry, gents, I'm not going to be any help to you at _all_ LOL. The only
> > effective treatment available is probably a 2nd job or a rich XYL hi hi.
> > Other than that, I think we're just screwed...
> >
> > 73,
> > LS
> > W5QD
> >
> >
> 
> 
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