[Elecraft] RX Mush, why the fuss?

[Erik Basilier]

I tend to use the CWT display a lot, and then the S-meter doesn't show 20 dB
over S9. Actively using RF gain, ATT, PRE, as one should, makes the S-meter
even less interesting. Eyes tend to spend a lot of time on the P3 display
when available. Spectrum peaks don't show how close we are to the maximum
ADC input level. How about adding more information to the P3 display?
Besides the existing display of the DSP bandwidth, the width of the roofing
filter could also be shown in a similar way. And to address the hardware AGC
function, how about some kind of vertical thermometer showing how close we
are to it kicking in? Perhaps a horizontal line across the vertical
bandwidth ribbon could show this, with the top of the bandwidth ribbon
representing saturated ADC or hardware AGC activation. Just an idea.

 

73,

Erik K7TV

 


-

One problem here is that a lot of the discussion has been in analog terms.

 

We have to remember that in the K3, the digital AGC controlled by the AGC
parms is just that, a digital algorithm. What it does has nothing to do with
diodes. It can do anything weird and completely non analog resembling, it
only cares about the program code.

 

The graphs I have seen are entirely based on steady or very slow moving
signal states, not a photo of an audio rate amplitude varying signal
traversing the AGC knee. They seem intended, well-enough done, just to
convey the rudimentary function variants.

 

You need to have the program code to estimate exactly what is happening to
the AGC at audio rates. Good luck with that.

 

The only control you have over the non parameterized hardware AGC is to
reduce the gain in front of it so it isn't engaged. You can't turn it off,
it's always potential if the signal coming through the roofing filter is
getting up to around 20 over 9.

 

If you have a pile-up of 20 over signals, it's time to turn off PRE, or turn
on ATT, or back off the RF gain. Otherwise you are engaging the hardware
AGC, not sophisticated, which is only there to properly range input to the
ADC chip.

 

This ain't your grand-daddy's analog radio.

 

73, Guy

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] RX Mush, why the fuss?

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

One problem here is that a lot of the discussion has been in analog terms.

We have to remember that in the K3, the digital AGC controlled by the AGC
parms is just that, a digital algorithm. What it does has nothing to do
with diodes. It can do anything weird and completely non analog resembling,
it only cares about the program code.

The graphs I have seen are entirely based on steady or very slow moving
signal states, not a photo of an audio rate amplitude varying signal
traversing the AGC knee. They seem intended, well-enough done, just to
convey the rudimentary function variants.

You need to have the program code to estimate exactly what is happening to
the AGC at audio rates. Good luck with that.

The only control you have over the non parameterized hardware AGC is to
reduce the gain in front of it so it isn't engaged. You can't turn it off,
it's always potential if the signal coming through the roofing filter is
getting up to around 20 over 9.

If you have a pile-up of 20 over signals, it's time to turn off PRE, or
turn on ATT, or back off the RF gain. Otherwise you are engaging the
hardware AGC, not sophisticated, which is only there to properly range
input to the ADC chip.

This ain't your grand-daddy's analog radio.

73, Guy

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Al Lorona  wrote:

> Oh no! I fear this is going to get bogged down in definitions. From
> Wikipedia:
>
>
> "Limiting can refer to non-linear clipping, in which a signal is passed
> through normally but 'sheared off' when it would normally exceed a certain
> threshold. It can also refer to a type of variable-gain audio level
> compression, in which the gain of an amplifier is changed very quickly to
> prevent the signal from going over a certain amplitude.
> * Hard limiting ("clipping") is a limiting action in which there is
> * (a) over the permitted dynamic range, negligible variation in the
> expected characteristic of the output signal, and
> * (b) a steady-state signal, at the maximum permitted level, for the
> duration of each period when the output would otherwise be required to
> exceed the permitted dynamic range in order to correspond to the transfer
> function of the device."
>
>
>
> AGC of the type we're discussing falls under this definition, and not the
> non-linear "back-to-back diode" clipping you might be thinking of. Look at
> the first graph under the section titled "Adjusting AGC SLP" and observe
> that for Slope=15, above about -104 dBm, the output follows a horizontal
> line. Moreover, the very first table that follows that graph shows that
> with Slope=15 if the input increases by 10 dB the output increase is
> virtually zero. That transfer characteristic is what audio engineers call
> "hard limiting".
>
> I also fear we may be talking past each other when we say 'linear' and
> 'nonlinear'. The AGC curve is 'nonlinear' in the sense that if we pour more
> RF input into the receiver, the output doesn't get any bigger. It's like
> that by design. All I was saying is that it doesn't sound good to me. I'm
> very happy there is Slope = 5.
>
> Call it whatever you want; the curve speaks for itself.
>
> Al  W6LX
>
>
>
>
> >>> There is a huge difference between AGC action (which is
>
> >>> simply a reduction in gain with linearity retained) and hard limiting.
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Re: [Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?

[tomb18]

HiThat works but you first have to reset it so you know where you are starting 
from.The issue with many ups and downs, is that some of them get ignoredyou 
need delays. This may not be an issue in the k3s and kx3 but is with the k3. A 
delay in the app would be great.73 Tom 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: "Cady, Fred"  Date: 
2017-03-02  11:05 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: tomb18 , Jason 
Pecora , elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 
TE and RE macro ? 


You could use the RX EQ menu and then do switch taps up and down to set the RE. 
 Doable but ugly.
73,
Fred KE7X






For all KE7X Elecraft books, see www.ke7x.com









From: Elecraft  on behalf of tomb18 


Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:26 PM

To: Jason Pecora; elecraft@mailman.qth.net

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?
 



HiNot possible.  There is no equivalent for the TE Macro for the receive 
equalizer.73 Tom 





Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 Original message From: Jason Pecora  
Date: 2017-03-02  3:56 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: 
[Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?


Group I am currently using the TE macro for transmit EQ setting from

ragchew to DXing ... I was wondering if there is the same for the RX EQ

also say "RE" ??? I use the TE macro on the kpod and it works great , but

would like to change the RX EQ maybe even at the same time ?



Jay KB8O

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Re: [Elecraft] RX Mush, why the fuss?

[Al Lorona]

Oh no! I fear this is going to get bogged down in definitions. From Wikipedia:


"Limiting can refer to non-linear clipping, in which a signal is passed through 
normally but 'sheared off' when it would normally exceed a certain threshold. 
It can also refer to a type of variable-gain audio level compression, in which 
the gain of an amplifier is changed very quickly to  prevent the signal from 
going over a certain amplitude.
* Hard limiting ("clipping") is a limiting action in which there is 
* (a) over the permitted dynamic range, negligible variation in the 
expected characteristic of the output signal, and
* (b) a steady-state signal, at the maximum permitted level, for the 
duration of each period when the output would otherwise be required to exceed 
the permitted dynamic range in order to correspond to the transfer function of 
the device."



AGC of the type we're discussing falls under this definition, and not the 
non-linear "back-to-back diode" clipping you might be thinking of. Look at the 
first graph under the section titled "Adjusting AGC SLP" and observe that for 
Slope=15, above about -104 dBm, the output follows a horizontal line. Moreover, 
the very first table that follows that graph shows that with Slope=15 if the 
input increases by 10 dB the output increase is virtually zero. That transfer 
characteristic is what audio engineers call "hard limiting".

I also fear we may be talking past each other when we say 'linear' and 
'nonlinear'. The AGC curve is 'nonlinear' in the sense that if we pour more RF 
input into the receiver, the output doesn't get any bigger. It's like that by 
design. All I was saying is that it doesn't sound good to me. I'm very happy 
there is Slope = 5.

Call it whatever you want; the curve speaks for itself.

Al  W6LX




>>> There is a huge difference between AGC action (which is

>>> simply a reduction in gain with linearity retained) and hard limiting. 
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[Elecraft] re Elecraft KX3 and the CW160

[Dave Sublette]

A friend sent me the post about this and so I thought I would join the group 
and post my experience.  I have had a KX3 for two or three years.  I replaced 
one of the high end rigs with it and am very pleased with the results.  I have 
a full quarter wave elevated ground plane antenna for 160.  I’ve had it up for 
27 years.  It is made from Rohn 45 with a Rohn insulator broadcast section 
inserted so the insulators are 27 feet above ground. There are 14 sections plus 
a short base and short flat top section.  The antenna is tuned with a 14 foot 
piece of 4 inch irrigation pipe out the top, which is adjustable.  The over all 
height of the antenna is 150 feet. At the 27 foot level there are 7 full 
quarter wave radials.  There were eight, but one broke and is in the woods 
somewhere and I can’t find it.  The radials droop to 10 feet above ground at 
the perimeter.  It doesn’t hurt that I live on a ridge which is the highest 
point in the county and my QTH is 300 feet or so above average terrain for 30 
miles in every direction.

The antenna is excellent.  I don’t own an amplifier for any HF band.  I work 
everything I hear and I hear lots. I have worked JA and VK/ZL with 100 watts on 
160.

This year I decided to try QRP, 5 watts.  I operated ten hours, just tuning to 
stations and calling them.  They usually came back on the first call.  I worked 
as far East as CN2 in Morocco and west to KH6.  I made 250+ QSOs and 58 
multipliers.  From what I saw on the CQ160 scores page before they took it 
down, I had a top ten in NA and top 25 world score.  Maybe next year I will 
make a serious effort. All depends on how I feel.  My health is great.  My 
motivation is lacking after 60 years on the air and more contests and DX QSOs 
than I can count.

I run the attenuator on receive all the time. I leave the RF gain all the way 
up.  I turn the Bandwidth down to 100 or 150 hz and seldom have noise or QRM 
problems. The receiver is the best I have ever owned. I think back to my first 
receiver, a dual triode super regen that heard the entire 80M novice band 
without touching the tuning and I think “We’ve come a long way, baby!!”

73 all,

Dave, K4TO

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Re: [Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?

[Cady, Fred]

You could use the RX EQ menu and then do switch taps up and down to set the RE. 
 Doable but ugly.

73,

Fred KE7X



For all KE7X Elecraft books, see www.ke7x.com



From: Elecraft  on behalf of tomb18 

Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:26 PM
To: Jason Pecora; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?

HiNot possible.  There is no equivalent for the TE Macro for the receive 
equalizer.73 Tom


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Jason Pecora  
Date: 2017-03-02  3:56 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: 
[Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?
Group I am currently using the TE macro for transmit EQ setting from
ragchew to DXing ... I was wondering if there is the same for the RX EQ
also say "RE" ??? I use the TE macro on the kpod and it works great , but
would like to change the RX EQ maybe even at the same time ?

Jay KB8O
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Re: [Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?

[tomb18]

HiNot possible.  There is no equivalent for the TE Macro for the receive 
equalizer.73 Tom 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Jason Pecora  
Date: 2017-03-02  3:56 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: 
[Elecraft] TE and RE macro ? 
Group I am currently using the TE macro for transmit EQ setting from
ragchew to DXing ... I was wondering if there is the same for the RX EQ
also say "RE" ??? I use the TE macro on the kpod and it works great , but
would like to change the RX EQ maybe even at the same time ?

Jay KB8O
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Re: [Elecraft] list submission, using ham radio deluxe and logic with k3 and a laptop with only com3

[M. George]

Hi Tony, first off I can help you with LP-Bridge sending data to your ACOM
2000a.  In LP-Bridge, the read only outputs are hard coded to the kenwood
protocol at 4800 baud.  So you can use LP-Bridge to get your ACOM 2000a to
track your K3 if you set the ACOM 2000A to Kenwood on the radio interface.
I had this configured and working on Jim's W7CT's setup a few months back.
I exchanged a few emails with Larry N8LP and he pointed out the hard coded
Kenwood / 4800 baud protocol on the output option in LP-Bridge.

Like you I didn't get excited about Win4K3Suite at first and I too saw the
RX eq settings reset.  But after thinking through it, I love the RX eq
settings being controlled by Win4K3Suite now.  There is no way to do that
from a K3 macro as far as I know... on the RX side.  So with Win4K3Suite,
you can store RX eq presents and switch between them on the fly AND you can
change the RX eq settings in real-time and hear the change, you can't do
this via the Config menu.

It does take a few seconds for Win4K3Suite to manipulate the RX eq settings
because it's doing some tricks to change the settings on the fly.

The reason Win4K3Suite resets the eq settings is because there is no way to
read the settings from the K3 to store them in the first place... so it
resets the settings for TX and RX eq at start up and then once you change
them in W4K3S and exit Win4K3Suite it stores them in the Win4K3Suite config
on disk... so then the next time you start up, it restores the settings to
your K3.  I was annoyed by this until I read Tom's FAQ here:
http://va2fsq.com/faq/  Then the light turned on.  There is no way to read
settings from the K3 eq, so to externalize this, Tom is working around that
limitation.  Once you set them up in W4K3S you are golden.  And it's a
major bonus to changes those on the fly as I have described.  BTW, I'm just
a happy user of W4K3S if you are wondering... I have no reason to try and
tout it other than I have been happy with the updates and support.

Even if you don't use the spectrum display in W4K3S, based on my many year
experience with LP-Bridge and NaP3, I still think it's well worth it on how
it shares the K3 CAT data.  It has been totally reliable too...

Anyway, give it another try and play around with the multiple and
dynamic UI settings for the eq in your K3.

Max NG7M



On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 1:06 PM, N2TK, Tony  wrote:

> I have been using LP-Bridge since its inception without major issues.
> I had tried Win4K3Suite one day. I did not spend much time with it, but two
> things didn't seem right. Maybe I just didn't know what I was doing though.
> It seemed each time I started the program I lost the equalizer settings and
> had to reenter them.
> Also there was an issue about the resolution had to be set to 3 decimal
> places. I would rather have the resolution to two decimal places for CW and
> for SSB depending if I am running or just going up and down the band I want
> to have 1 or two decimal places.
> And again, maybe I just didn't know what I was doing. And since LP-Bridge
> handles all of my devices fine I didn't get too serious with Win4K3Suite. I
> have the P3 with external monitor so not too interested in another band
> scope.
> The one thing I can't seem to do with LP-Bridge is have the Acom 2000A
> track
> my K3's receive frequency in order to pretune. I have N4PY's program doing
> that in the background.
>
> Tell me I didn't do things correctly and that if I set up Win4K3Suite
> properly I  can just start the program and it will start my other interface
> programs such as N1MM+, DXBase, AXETTY,  like LP-Bride and be seamless.
>
> 73,
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of M.
> George
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 8:36 PM
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] list submission, using ham radio deluxe and logic
> with k3 and a laptop with only com3
>
> I used LP-Bridge for many years and never was satisfied with the
> reliability... plus the time it takes to create the virtual ports was
> always
> irritating to me. It is pretty good and the price sure is right however!
>
> I have switched to Win4K3Suite with com0com for the CAT sharing of the
> K3(s) and it has been rock solid.  As others have mentioned, you can share
> the K3 CAT interface with up to 4 other applications and the lastest
> version
> of Win4K3Suite also adds 3 or 4 (off the top of my head) read only
> interfaces that you can use... i.e. like an SDA100 SteppIR controller or an
> Amplifier that will track the transceiver frequency.  VSPE looks pretty
> good, but the license feed for the signed 64 bit version is ~$25 and that
> gets you half way to the cost of Win4K3Suite... Win4K3WSuite in and of
> itself is really nice.  The more I use it, the more I like it... for
> example, pre defined RX EQ settings are so nice where you can just push a
> button and change 

[Elecraft] KX3 on eBay

[Don Pomplun]

My loaded KX3 / KXPA100 / PX3 station is listed on eBay as item #252794167119


[apologies if you saw this earlier.  It seems to have shown up in the archives 
but not My mailbox]

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Re: [Elecraft] RX Mush, why the fuss?

[Don Wilhelm]

The AGC will not cause "hard limiting" - in other words, it should 
maintain linearity.


Even though the strongest signal in the passband will control how much 
AGC is applied, weaker signals in the passband should sound 
proportionally weaker.


Now that you mention hard limiting, there is a limiter in the K3 that if 
turned on will protect your ears.  I am wondering if some instances of 
reported receiver mush did have limiting set on - that would be 
particularly true for those who chose to ride the RF Gain and/or run 
with AGC off.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/2/2017 3:37 PM, ab2tc wrote:

Hi,

Where in Smith's article does it say that AGC with the slope set for 15 acts
as a hard limiter? There is a huge difference between AGC action (which is
simply a reduction in gain with linearity retained) and hard limiting.

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[Elecraft] P3 menu to set ref level?

[Chuck Chandler]

Is there any thought to having a menu option to set the reference level?

For example, there is one to set the Span, which I have used to assign
three of the menu buttons to give me a span of 20, 50 and 200 kHz.  Seems a
similar menu item could allow for a quick selection of reference levels for
noisy bands, average bands and quiet bands.

73 de Chuck, WS1L

-- 


===
Chuck Chandler
chandler...@gmail.com
===
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Re: [Elecraft] FW: Using your tower as a vertical - 160 or 80

[Erik Basilier]

Vic, thanks for your comments!
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Vic
Rosenthal 4X6GP
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:21 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FW: Using your tower as a vertical - 160 or 80

Regarding using a tower as a vertical:

Some years ago I had a 50-foot mast with a tribander on it next to my house.
I ran two wires out my window, one down to the base of the mast and one to a
point on it that produced a reasonable SWR on 80 meters. 
The rotor cable and feedline for the beam ran down to the ground, and then
back up to the shack. No ferrites or anything on the feedline. I wrapped the
rotor cable around a ferrite rod at the rotor controller. I had a system of
16 radials, each about 20' long, and in a half-circle.

I ran about 600 watts to this arrangement and didn't notice RF issues in the
shack. It worked surprisingly well, producing contacts from here into the US
as far west as Illinois.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/


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Re: [Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?

[ab2tc]

Hi,

Sorry, but to my knowledge is *still* no RE macro. I and several others have
pleaded in the past for one, to no avail. Maybe your request will tip the
scales and raise the issue higher on the TODO list
Some PC programs manage to change the RX equalizer anyway. They probably do
it with some clever button "pushes" to walk the machine through the menu
settings for this.

AB2TC - Knut


Jason Pecora wrote
> Group I am currently using the TE macro for transmit EQ setting from
> ragchew to DXing ... I was wondering if there is the same for the RX EQ
> also say "RE" ??? I use the TE macro on the kpod and it works great , but
> would like to change the RX EQ maybe even at the same time ?
> 
> Jay KB8O
> 





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[Elecraft] TE and RE macro ?

[Jason Pecora]

Group I am currently using the TE macro for transmit EQ setting from
ragchew to DXing ... I was wondering if there is the same for the RX EQ
also say "RE" ??? I use the TE macro on the kpod and it works great , but
would like to change the RX EQ maybe even at the same time ?

Jay KB8O
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Re: [Elecraft] RX Mush, why the fuss?

[ab2tc]

Hi,

Where in Smith's article does it say that AGC with the slope set for 15 acts
as a hard limiter? There is a huge difference between AGC action (which is
simply a reduction in gain with linearity retained) and hard limiting. I
have read the article and agree that his measurements are very helpful. The
"waviness" he observes he correctly attributes to the log function in the
DSP being less than accurate. This has since been corrected as far as I
know. Whatever some people at the receiving end of a CW pileup hear is not
caused by hard limiting. Why can't we ever see some hard evidence of this
phenomenon (like a video with quality audio or at least an audio only
recording)?

AB2TC - Knut


alorona wrote
> It isn't so much that 'the strongest signal in the passband determines the
> gain of the receiver', it's that once that strong signal sends the 
> receiver into AGC, additional signals in the passband do not increase the
> audio output power when the Slope is set at or near its extreme. This is a
> form of gain compression, which is distortion, strictly speaking.
> 
> The 'landmark' paper on this was written by Jack Smith, K8ZOA, available
> at: http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm .
> In it, Jack showed that the K3's curve of Audio Output vs. RF Input at
> Slope = 15 acts as a hard limiter. He follows that with a table of
> measurements where a 10 dB change in RF signal level results in virtually
> no increase in audio output. This 10 dB change in RF signal level could
> come from a single signal that increases by 10 dB, or additional signals
> in the passband that add 10 dB of RF input to an existing 'strong' signal
> -- the receiver doesn't care which. 
> 
> For many listeners, more signals added to the passband that don't result
> in any more audio is a condition that confuses and fatigues the brain and
> can make it difficult to decode the relationship between signals. I
> believe this is the 'mush' that has been reported here. The effect occurs
> on CW, too, though I believe that the effect is made even  worse by the
> heavily compressed phone signals that many contesters generate.
> 
> I completely agree with Dave AB7E that the use of as little slope as
> possible (lower values of the AGC Slope parameter), coupled with higher
> values of AGC Threshhold allows the receiver to sound very natural, or
> open, or clean, and preserves as much as possible the relationship between
> multiple signals, which makes it easier for your brain to copy them. (I'm
> sorry for using such non-scientific terms, but it's the best I can do to
> describe it.)
> 
> 
> 
> Al  W6LX
> 





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Re: [Elecraft] list submission, using ham radio deluxe and logic with k3 and a laptop with only com3

[N2TK, Tony]

I have been using LP-Bridge since its inception without major issues.
I had tried Win4K3Suite one day. I did not spend much time with it, but two
things didn't seem right. Maybe I just didn't know what I was doing though.
It seemed each time I started the program I lost the equalizer settings and
had to reenter them.
Also there was an issue about the resolution had to be set to 3 decimal
places. I would rather have the resolution to two decimal places for CW and
for SSB depending if I am running or just going up and down the band I want
to have 1 or two decimal places. 
And again, maybe I just didn't know what I was doing. And since LP-Bridge
handles all of my devices fine I didn't get too serious with Win4K3Suite. I
have the P3 with external monitor so not too interested in another band
scope.  
The one thing I can't seem to do with LP-Bridge is have the Acom 2000A track
my K3's receive frequency in order to pretune. I have N4PY's program doing
that in the background.

Tell me I didn't do things correctly and that if I set up Win4K3Suite
properly I  can just start the program and it will start my other interface
programs such as N1MM+, DXBase, AXETTY,  like LP-Bride and be seamless.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of M.
George
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 8:36 PM
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] list submission, using ham radio deluxe and logic
with k3 and a laptop with only com3

I used LP-Bridge for many years and never was satisfied with the
reliability... plus the time it takes to create the virtual ports was always
irritating to me. It is pretty good and the price sure is right however!

I have switched to Win4K3Suite with com0com for the CAT sharing of the
K3(s) and it has been rock solid.  As others have mentioned, you can share
the K3 CAT interface with up to 4 other applications and the lastest version
of Win4K3Suite also adds 3 or 4 (off the top of my head) read only
interfaces that you can use... i.e. like an SDA100 SteppIR controller or an
Amplifier that will track the transceiver frequency.  VSPE looks pretty
good, but the license feed for the signed 64 bit version is ~$25 and that
gets you half way to the cost of Win4K3Suite... Win4K3WSuite in and of
itself is really nice.  The more I use it, the more I like it... for
example, pre defined RX EQ settings are so nice where you can just push a
button and change the EQ settings on the K3 in a few seconds and if you are
tweaking the EQ settings, you get to hear things live without having to
leave the Config menu.  Anyway, I'm really like the spectrum display to in
combination with an LP-PAN2.  It's become the replacement to NaP3.  It's all
together just a much more reliable solution than LP-Bridge and NaP3 IMHO.  I
can't live without my LP-PAN2 by the way... but now I no longer need to deal
with LP-Bridge and Win4K3Suite starts right up with no delay where the
com0com ports are created when Windows 10 starts up.

Max NG7M

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 6:07 PM, Tim Tucker  wrote:

> I have used LP Bridge in the past but found that it crashed too often 
> to suit my tastes.  I am currently using VSPE 64 bit on two machines 
> (for the past 2 years) without any problems.
>
> Tim
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 9:31 AM, buddy s  wrote:
>
> > i have a laptop, win 10, usb cabled to my k3, and the com port is 
> > identified as com3.  i would like to use ham radio deluxe and logic 
> > simultaneously.
> >
> > if someone has a similar situation and solved the problem i would 
> > appreciate the details.  i have tried VSPE, unsuccessfully.
> >
> > thanks, es
> >
> > 73 de
> > W3BS, Buddy Spiegel
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > ae...@worldwidedx.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Owner, worldwidedx.com
> AE6LX, Amateur Radio
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> m.matthew.geo...@gmail.com
>



--
M. George
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Re: [Elecraft] K-3 group for contesters

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

It is gone, closed a year or so ago.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 3/2/2017 12:29 PM, Art via Elecraft wrote:

Seem to recall someone mentioning that there is another group for K-3 users who 
are primarily interested in contesting. Would someone kindly share that info?


63,


Art KZ5D
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[Elecraft] K-3 group for contesters

[Art via Elecraft]

Seem to recall someone mentioning that there is another group for K-3 users who 
are primarily interested in contesting. Would someone kindly share that info?


63,


Art KZ5D
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Re: [Elecraft] 80 Meter Verticals

[donovanf]

Hi Ed, 


What is your ground system for your 630 meter inverted-L? 


Many of us will be ready for a QSO with you with our lowfer 
capable K3s when the band is available. I'll use a 1/4 wavelength 
inverted-L with 180 ft vertical and 350 feet horizontal using the 
radial system for my 160 meter 4-square array (240 radials 
125 feet long). 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Edward R Cole"  
To: "Elecraft Reflector"  
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:33:27 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 80 Meter Verticals 

I did that on my 630m inverted-L. Obviously 43-feet vertical is very 
short on 495-KHz (less than 10% of a quarter wave), so the antenna is 
heavily base loaded by a coil plus the 122-foot top section adds a 
little capacity. I ran three wires in parallel spaced a foot apart 
in the vertical section tied together at both ends with 1/2 inch 
copper tube and the top hat is two parallel wires space 2-foot with 
another 1/2 inch copper tube at the far end. This lowered the Q 
enough to get SWR<2.0 over 5-KHz bandwidth. 

I will have to retune to 472-479 KHz when I hang the antenna back up 
after repairs as this is the proposed frequencies for a future ham band. 

I operate with 100w (1.3w ERP) under the call sign WD2XSH-45 (ARRL 
sponsored Experimental License). 

73, Ed - KL7UW 
http://www.kl7uw.com 
Dubus-NA Business mail: 
dubus...@gmail.com 

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[Elecraft] Upgraded K3 for Sale

[Gerry Hull]

Elecraft K3 Serial Number 7431  April 2013
- Factory Built
- RX Ant Option
- I/F Out and Transverter Interface
- KFL3A, 8-poll 250 Hz CW Filter
- KUSB Interface Cable

June 2016 Factory Upgrade
- KSYN3AUPG  New Synthesizer board (same as K3s)
- KDVR3  Digital Voice Recorder

- Latest Firmware
w/new Power Cord.

$2150  Carefully packed, shipped to your USA destination Priority Mail.
Paypal F (you pay fees) or Credit Cards accepted (2% fee)

73, Gerry W1VE
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Digest, Vol 155, Issue 1

[Dave B via Elecraft]

On 02/03/17 06:45, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 12:15:32 -0800
> From: "Bob Wilson, N6TV" 
> To: buddy s , Elecraft Reflector
>   
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] list submission, using ham radio deluxe and
>   logic with k3 and a laptop with only com3
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> *Maybe try OmniRig by VE3NEA ****? It allows all 
> supported programs to share the serial port of the K3
> at the same time.*
>
> Both Ham Radio Deluxe Bridge and Logic 9 are listed as compatible.  But,
> perhaps it doesn't work with the latest version of HRD?
>
> http://dxatlas.com/OmniRig/CompatibleSoft.txt
>
> http://wd5eae.org/Software.html  - "OmniRig / Ham Radio Deluxe Bridge (for
> HRD 3.x/4.x)"
>
> There are other solutions such as the microHAM controllers that provide two
> virtual serial ports per radio.
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV

No it does not!...

OmniRig is the sole user of the COM port connected to the radio, but it
can share out it's resources to several programs at once by other means
in software, so long as the other programs are written to use OmniRig as
a radio interface.  That is good.

BUT!  Only one other program can in reality "control" the radio at any
one time *, though all of them can poll for it's status.  OmniRig will
return the last known data, without necessarily actually polling the
radio, if not needed.  That can also speed things up a lot with some
software and a rig that is otherwise slow to respond.

If your rig of choice is not listed, then read the OmniRig pages on
Alex's site, and learn how to craft your own driver file.  It's not
difficult, it just needs some thought, and time.

HamLib is a similar system, but I find tends not to work that well on
Windows.  (It does work well under Linux though.) YMMV however.

* It doesnt matter what or who's rig end user control software you use,
the rig itself is a simple single task machine.   If you start to throw
multiple commands and queries at it from different programs via a COM
port sharing tool, at best everything will be confused.  At worst,
you'll probably crash the radios own internal firmware!

That is what HamLib, OmniRig, and Flrig etc are intended to provide.  A
"managed" way to share information, and apportion control when needed.

Take care.

73.

Dave G0WBX.

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[Elecraft] OT: 60m band in Hong Kong

[Johnny Siu via Elecraft]

Dear Elecrafters,
In the past, I asked questions about 60m band in USA.  Local telecommunication 
authority in Hong Kong has now allocated 5351.5-5366.5kHz to amateur radio 
service on a secondary basis.  The maximum EIP is 15 Watt.
Thanks for all your help in the past.
73
Johnny VR2XMC
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[Elecraft] eBay listing

[Don Pomplun]

A loaded KX3 / KXPA100 / PX3 station is listed on eBay as item 
#252794167119

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Re: [Elecraft] Afsk a

[Martin Waller]

Many thanks for all the replies. 

I think I was in a state of confusion!

Martin
G0PJO

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] 
Sent: 01 March 2017 19:48
To: mar...@the-wallers.net; Elecraft Reflector Reflector 

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Afsk a

Paddle input is only available in PSK-D and FSK-D data submodes.

DATA A and AFSK are only for soundcard generated data.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/1/2017 1:33 PM, mar...@the-wallers.net wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can you help me please?
>
> I was playing with data modes the other day and my kx3 was happily sending 
> rtty in afsk a mode using the morse paddle. Today it no longer accepts input 
> from the morse paddle in afsk mode but does in other data modes.

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Re: [Elecraft] 80 Meter Verticals

[Edward R Cole]

Ron and all:

You can use your tower as one leg of a folded monopole.  Run a wire 
vertical up one side of your tower separate say 6-12 inches from the 
wire shorted over to the tower top.  Tower stays grounded and your 
wire it fed at the bottom near ground but insulated.  Coax shield is 
tied to tower ground.  Depending on tower height you still may need a 
tuner to match it.  80m works nice with 60-foot tower.  You still 
need ground radials like any 1/4 wave vertical.  The tower makes a 
nice fat element to lower Q.


If you have a mast with HF antennas at top there will be a little 
capacitive loading to the resulting vertical.


73, Ed - KL7UW

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 10:41:40 -0800
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" 
To: "'Charlie T, K3ICH'" ,

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 80 Meter Verticals
Message-ID: <003501d292bb$780e04d0$682a0e70$@biz>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="utf-8"

John Heys, G3BDQ, in his book "Practical Wire Antennas" describes 
"folded monopoles" or "folded Marconi" antennas - essentially 1/2 of 
a folded dipole worked against a system of radials. The monopole is 
made of two or three wires. Feed is between one wire and the radial 
system while the second or third parallel wires are jointed at the 
"top" and retur to be connected to the radial system.


A two-wire folded monopole presents a feedpoint impedance of between 
80 and 150 ohms. Heys credits W6SAI in his book "Simple Low-Cost Wire 
Antennas" (Radio Publications, Inc., 1972) for a version made from 
slotted 300 ohm "twin lead". It is in Inverted L configuration for 80 
meters: vertical 30 feet (9.1 meters) then sloping 25 feet (7.6 
meters) to the top of a 35 ft (10.6 meter) support. To maintain 
resonance and compensate for the velocity factor of the twin lead, an 
8 ft 3" (2.4 meter) single wire is run from the joined conductors at 
the end of the twin lead to the support.


Heys describes a 3-wire version without a bend but sloping at an 
angle of 30 degrees or less from vertical at 65 feet (19.8 meters) 
centered on 3.6 MHz. Heys' version requires a 60 foot (18.2 meter) 
high support although he notes that for 40 meters a 30 foot support 
will be adequate. As with the two wire folded monopole all three 
wires are connected at the "top" and the feed point is between the 
center wire and the radial system. The other two wire ends are 
connected directly to the radial system. Heys notes that a spacing of 
1 foot is needed to use the common 1/4 wavelength formula of 234/f (mHz).


Heys says that either antenna can be used on its 3rd harmonic.

73, Ron AC7AC


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] 80 Meter Verticals

[Edward R Cole]

I did that on my 630m inverted-L.  Obviously 43-feet vertical is very 
short on 495-KHz (less than 10% of a quarter wave), so the antenna is 
heavily base loaded by a coil plus the 122-foot top section adds a 
little capacity.  I ran three wires in parallel spaced a foot apart 
in the vertical section tied together at both ends with 1/2 inch 
copper tube and the top hat is two parallel wires space 2-foot with 
another 1/2 inch copper tube at the far end.  This lowered the Q 
enough to get SWR<2.0 over 5-KHz bandwidth.


I will have to retune to 472-479 KHz when I hang the antenna back up 
after repairs as this is the proposed frequencies for a future ham band.


I operate with 100w (1.3w ERP) under the call sign WD2XSH-45 (ARRL 
sponsored Experimental License).


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Vacuum Relays and 30 WPM QSK

[Bob Nielsen]

I forgot to send to the list.


On 3/2/17 12:01 AM, Bob Nielsen wrote:
The DX Connection QSK-2500 switch has provision for adjusting the 
various delays and can handle a wide range of transceivers and 
amplifiers.  When correctly configured, it will not hot switch when 
keyed, protecting the life of the relays.  It was reviewed in the 
September 2016 issue of QST.


73, Bob N7XY


On 2/28/17 10:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
Of course. beginning with the K2, all Elecraft rigs have a delay 
built in -- that is, TX begins 8 msec or more after the amp control 
line is keyed. On the K3 and later relays, the delay is adjustable. 8 
msec is enough for most amps with GOOD relays (vacuum relays), but 
not enough for slower relays. Every rig I've used since getting back 
on the air in 2003 had that delay built in. Those rigs included 
TS850, Omni V, and FT1000MP.


73, Jim K9YC

On Tue,2/28/2017 8:35 PM, n0...@juno.com wrote:

The "secrete" to running QSK with an amplifier is proper sequencing
of whatever keying is used...relays or PINs.



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Re: [Elecraft] RX Mush, why the fuss?

[Al Lorona]

It isn't so much that 'the strongest signal in the passband determines the gain 
of the receiver', it's that once that strong signal sends the 
receiver into AGC, additional signals in the passband do not increase the audio 
output power when the Slope is set at or near its extreme. This is a form of 
gain compression, which is distortion, strictly speaking.

The 'landmark' paper on this was written by Jack Smith, K8ZOA, available at: 
http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm . In it, 
Jack showed that the K3's curve of Audio Output vs. RF Input at Slope = 15 acts 
as a hard limiter. He follows that with a table of measurements where a 10 dB 
change in RF signal level results in virtually no increase in audio output. 
This 10 dB change in RF signal level could come from a single signal that 
increases by 10 dB, or additional signals in the passband that add 10 dB of RF 
input to an existing 'strong' signal -- the receiver doesn't care which. 

For many listeners, more signals added to the passband that don't result in any 
more audio is a condition that confuses and fatigues the brain and can make it 
difficult to decode the relationship between signals. I believe this is the 
'mush' that has been reported here. The effect occurs on CW, too, though I 
believe that the effect is made even  worse by the heavily compressed phone 
signals that many contesters generate.

I completely agree with Dave AB7E that the use of as little slope as possible 
(lower values of the AGC Slope parameter), coupled with higher values of AGC 
Threshhold allows the receiver to sound very natural, or open, or clean, and 
preserves as much as possible the relationship between multiple signals, which 
makes it easier for your brain to copy them. (I'm sorry for using such 
non-scientific terms, but it's the best I can do to describe it.)



Al  W6LX


>>
>> After the SNR is adequate (delayed AGC in 1960s terms, above threshold
>> today), the overall gain is reduced by some amount to maintain a
>> desired output or to prevent overload, and any other signals present
>> suffer the same gain reduction.  Hence a signal 30 dB stronger than
>> another is still 30 dB stronger even after the application of AGC.  
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