Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Edward
Your test results are much appreciated! Any very informative!
Thank you kind sir
Would be interesting to be able to compare a newer KX3 with rev E boards to 
your past test results
73
Dan

> On May 30, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Edward R Cole  wrote:
> 
> I ran extensive frequency drift measurements on the KX3 in 2014, purchasing 
> an aftermarket heat sink for my KX3.  After running the temperature 
> compensation procedure I reported:
> 
>   I re-ran the JT65 testing sequences to measure frequency drift after 
> temperature compensation was done.
>   Initial sequence shows the most drift with a peak +13 Hz upwards drift in 
> the first sequence. The remainder
>   Showed under 10-Hz with the delta trending to +5 Hz in later sequences.
> 
> Testing was done on 50-MHz which would show the most drift; I did not check 
> for HF drift which one would expect to be proportionally less.
> 
> http://www.kl7uw.com/KX3.htm
> 
> Data is displayed on some charts accessible by link from main page.
> 
> I also acquired the heat sink produced by Elecraft but have not tried it 
> considering the one I previously purchased has much more thermal mass.  Drift 
> before adding heat sink and performing Temp comp. was 103-Hz accumulated over 
> 20-min test of running key-down in CW for 50-seconds followed by 70-seconds 
> in Rx, repeating ten times.
> 
> I use a professional frequency counter usable to 26-GHz whose TCXO appears 
> stabile against a Rubidium reference.
> 
> I have not run the KX3 on JT65 very much (a little on 6m a couple years ago); 
> haven't built IQ interface.  I have a K3 with EXREF running 2m-eme and 
> 23cm-eme with transverters so the KX3 gets used for other kinds of use.  I 
> have the 2M board installed.  Haven't checked drift on 2m with it.
> 
> Reading the mail to see what will be reported for the KX2.
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
>"Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
>dubus...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Jim
When one makes it personal
I'm done
Have a happy day and enjoy ham radio
72


> On May 30, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon,5/30/2016 4:50 AM, D Howard wrote:
>> I thought at the price I paid for the KX3 I shouldn't have to do the 
>> compensation nor run the KX3 at such reduced power once compensated. My 
>> trusty old FT817 worked fine.
> 
> That's your problem, not Elecraft's. The KX3 was specifically designed as a 
> backpacking radio that could also do other things. AFAIK, neither Wayne nor 
> Eric is a JT65 op or a VHF op, so they didn't think of the thermal issue 
> until users brought it up. When they did, Elecraft developed the temperature 
> compensation as a solution and also improved the heat sink. I did both to my 
> KX3. It took about three hours, half of which was reading the instructions 
> and cooling the radio for the second part of the procedure.
> 
> Reading ARRL Lab test reports clearly shows that Your "trusty old FT817" 
> isn't one-tenth the radio that the KX3 is. The KX3 is FAR cleaner on TX and 
> FAR superior on RX. But the KX3 is fundamentally an HF + 6M radio, not a 2M 
> radio. A few weeks ago, we used a KX3 with the KXPA100 and PX3 for a very 
> successful mobile run in the 7th Area QSO Party.  Slide #8 in 
> k9yc.com/7QP.pdf shows the setup that W6GJB put together. W6GJB drove while 
> W6JTI operated, riding shotgun. The KXPA100 is on the floor of the back seat.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Luke
Thanks - just what I needed to know!
Have you tried JT9 ?
Perhaps some sort of heatsink/handles added to the case might help??
73
Dan VA3MA


On 2016-05-29, at 22:37, Luke <auric...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hmm, not sure why it cut out my message. Here's what I wrote:

I've used my KX2 on WSPR and JT65 and it appears to be plenty stable. I used to 
have a KX3  and sold it because it wouldn't decode WSPR between transmit cycles 
due to excessive drift. I've kept the KX2 to <5 watts because the right 
sideplate gets very hot with the high duty cycle.

I've actually just been sitting here running JT65 @ 10 watts when I got your 
email, and it is doing pretty well. I had 3 back to back QSO's and on the last 
transmission the PA Temp got up to 47C (~117F) which doesn't seem too bad. As 
it cools off there is no drifting or slanting of signals on the waterfall 
either. I think the 1 minute on/off duty cycle of JT65 is very doable with the 
KX2, and WSPR might be pushing it. The other night the sideplate got quite hot 
running WSPR at 5 watts.

Luke
AD0KI


From: Dan - VA3MA <va...@me.com>
To: Luke <auric...@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

Luke
No content

> On May 29, 2016, at 8:51 PM, Luke via Elecraft <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Hi  thanks
I’ve read all these c comments by others - but I have yet to get a direct 
confirmation from someone who has operated the KX2 enthuse digital modes!
Ha!
Dan

> On May 29, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Phil Wheeler <w...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> One of the eham reviewers mentioned using the KX2 on JT65: 
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/12852
> 
> The N9JR review.
> 
> Phil W7OX
> 
> 
> On 5/29/16 12:40 PM, Dan - VA3MA wrote:
>> Has anyone had the opportunity to see if the KX2 out of the box will be 
>> stable enough to run JT65 & JT9
>> Would appreciate feedback as I’m apartment dweller and only run these 
>> digital modes with compromised antenna
>> Thanks
>> Dan VA3MA
> 

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[Elecraft] KX2 on JT65 & JT9 ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Has anyone had the opportunity to see if the KX2 out of the box will be stable 
enough to run JT65 & JT9
Would appreciate feedback as I’m apartment dweller and only run these digital 
modes with compromised antenna
Thanks 
Dan VA3MA
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Re: [Elecraft] Narrow Digital Modes ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Lyle
This is very encouraging !
My friend Terry VE3EGA is awaiting delivery of his KX2
I think he will try using it onJT9
And let me know...
HOPE SO

On 2016-05-24, at 13:18, Lyle Johnson <kk7p4...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am uncertain why the OP claims the KX2 is not usable on JT65.  One of the
KX2 field testers operated the radio on that mode without issues and
reported the same in an eham review of the KX2.

In fact, we paid great attention to frequency stability in the KX2 design,
applying lessons learned from the KX3.

The KX2 Tx power is more limited than in the KX3.  But JT65 is a weak
signal mode :-)

73,

Lyle KK7P

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Edward R Cole <kl...@acsalaska.net> wrote:

> I reviewed the KX2 FAQ before replying and actually one can connect an
> external computer to the KX2 and audio can be connected via headphone and
> ext mic connectors and PTT via the computer connection, so I would guess
> that freq stability might be the reason.
> 
> One cannot connect to external SDR programs as IQ baseband access is not
> provided like the KX3 (BTW that is not provided in the K3, ether but WSJT10
> and probably JT65HF work off ordinary speaker audio into a soundcard).
> 
> I can run either WSJT10 using my K3 LINE OUT or MAP65 using a LP-Pan (SDR)
> on the first IF.  LP-Pan provides IQ baseband audio for computer based SDR
> programs.
> 
> Someone needs to run a test of freq.stability on the KX2 running about 3w
> output in CW, holding key-down for 50-seconds followed by Rx for 70-seconds
> to simulate JT65 heating and thus frequency stress.  IF 28-MHz holds under
> 20-Hz drift over at least ten minutes than it is compatible for JT65; if
> not then that may be the issue.
> 
> Let me say my KX3's features suit my use(s) of the radio better.  I like
> having 6m & 2M internal to the radio.  Recently had opportunity to use the
> KX3-2M as base radio for my weekly 2m SSB Net and its receiving ability
> with 214-foot of coax cable from my four yagi eme array worked surprisingly
> well (normally I use tower mounted preamps).
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> 
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 08:57:27 -0400
> From: Dan - VA3MA <va...@me.com>
> To: Elecraft <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Narrow Digital Modes ??
> Message-ID: <36339378-65db-4de0-a268-e2f52f442...@me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Could Elecraft explain why the KX2 design doesn't allow operating say JT65
> out of the box?
> What prohibits manufacturing the rig to do the narrow digital modes?
> Would be helpful to know
> Thanks
> Dan VA3MA
> 
> 
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
>"Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
>dubus...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] Narrow Digital Modes ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Could Elecraft explain why the KX2 design doesn't allow operating say JT65 out 
of the box?
What prohibits manufacturing the rig to do the narrow digital modes?
Would be helpful to know 
Thanks
Dan VA3MA

I notice Wayne is ignoring explaining their design decision - commenting on all 
other questions !
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Re: [Elecraft] Narrow Digital Modes ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Sorry 
I didn't mean to imply decoding JT modes inside the KX2
I was wondering why the rig is not frequency stable for narrow digital modes 
using a PC for encode/decode.
Why could it not be manufactured more stable??
Dan VA3MA

On 2016-05-24, at 9:11, Matt Maguire <matt.vk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Some possible reasons might be:
- JT65 is very heavy on number crunching, the low power MCU in the KX2 is 
likely not optimised for this
- UI: JT65 programs generally use a waterfall, and have enough screen real 
estate to display info about all stations decoded, this is not practical on a 
KX2 display
- time synchronisation -- JT65 requires an accurate realtime clock, usually 
synchronised to Internet NTP servers. The KX2 has no direct interface to the 
Internet
- frequency stability -- JT65 has some stringent frequency stability 
requirements, it is possible that the KX2 may have difficulty providing this, 
especially if it is heating up with long held transmission times of a high duty 
cycle mode like JT65.

73, Matt VK2RQ




On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:58 AM -0700, "Dan - VA3MA" <va...@me.com> wrote:

> Could Elecraft explain why the KX2 design doesn't allow operating say JT65 
> out of the box?
> What prohibits manufacturing the rig to do the narrow digital modes?
> Would be helpful to know 
> Thanks
> Dan VA3MA
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[Elecraft] Narrow Digital Modes ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Could Elecraft explain why the KX2 design doesn't allow operating say JT65 out 
of the box?
What prohibits manufacturing the rig to do the narrow digital modes?
Would be helpful to know 
Thanks
Dan VA3MA
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[Elecraft] KX2 stable enough for JT9 ??

[Dan - VA3MA]

Any intelligence on narrow Digit modes?
Dan VA3MA
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[Elecraft] FS - KIO2 RS-232 Interface and Aux I/O for Elecraft K2 Transceiver. $30

[Dan - VA3MA]

KIO2 RS-232 Interface and Aux I/O for Elecraft K2 Transceiver
I have a partially completed KIO2 kit - I no longer have a K2
From the Elecraft website =You'll be able to do full computer control of the 
K2 with the KIO2 installed, and you won't need an external level converter, 
since the KIO2 provides true RS-232 levels. Compatible with most contesting 
and logging software, as well as our own K2VOICE and K2REMOTE programs. The 
KIO2 Programmer's Reference provides extensive information for those writing 
custom K2 control programs. 
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