Re: [Elecraft] Current Flow on Copper Strips - a Question
What's more appropriate for coaxial building entry grounding management? This wide-strap, allegedly low inductance, approach... https://www.comm-omni.com/polyweb/images/pb.jpg ...or this more R56 approach... http://www.radio2way.net/MGB.jpg ? 73 John, kx4o On Fri, April 27, 2018 02:21, Wes Stewart wrote: > "When skin effect is present, the current is always redistributed over > the conductor cross section in such a way as to make most of the current > flow where it is encircled by the smallest number of flux lines. This > general principle controls the distribution of current irrespective of the > shape of the conductor involved. Thus, with a flat strip conductor (figure > reference not shown) the current flows primarily along the edges, where it > is surrounded by the smallest amount of flux, and the true or effective > resistance will be high because most of the strip carries very little > current. (A reference to the missing figure) makes clear that it is not > the amount of conductor surface that determines the resistance to > alternating current but rather the way in which the conductor material is > arranged." > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?
You are, of course, absolutely correct Jim. Know that one model of the sat receiver uses an RF remote of some sort that many think is the culprit. Sadly the response from the, understandably RF clueless, sat help lines is kind of like going to a doctor with the plea "it hurts to do this" and response of "well don't do that." I suspect nothing will change much until a 40m signal affects the sat systems of the ham's neighbors resulting in a Part 15/97 brawl. On Wed, March 14, 2018 22:47, Jim Brown wrote: > Problems like this are the result of design defects in the cable modem. > It should be possible to solve problems of this sort by winding multiple > turns of both the coax and the power cable #31 or #43 Fair-Rite toroids. > See > > http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf > > for part numbers and guidelines for winding. While the app note discusses > RX noise radiated from gear like this, the cures are the same > for both. > > AND -- because it's the result of a defective modem (i.e. a bad design), > ALWAYS call the vendor and tell them to fix it. > > 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?
I have personally seem a 40m signal change the channels on our Direct TV setup. This is, unfortunately, a common problem... https://www.google.com/search?q=direct+tv+amateur+radio+changes+channels=direct+tv+amateur+radio+changes+channels John, kx4o On Wed, March 14, 2018 12:56, Reed wrote: > Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or > Direct TV. I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases > so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck. > > Thanks, > > Reed W4JZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Experiences using a portable HF loop
Small loop efficiency is relatively dismal, but as G8HQP once said concerning this topic... That would depend on what you mean by 'efficient.' Probably not efficient in the usual engineering sense of power out vs. power in, but perhaps 'efficient' in the common meaning of being able to do the job of radiating something from a small space. My small space and portable (or to some lugable) example here... http://www.hamradio.me/antennas/small-loop-hf-antenna.html ...performs surprisingly well on 40m despite the losses, hence supporting G8HQP's premise. An additional important thing to keep in mind is the seriously high E and H fields around these things even with QRP power. The H field especially exceeds MPE limits a couple meters out along a line through the plane of the loop. Some folks operate next to their loops... not me man. Small loops are an enigma at first, but part of the fun is unraveling the mystery through experimentation. Join us. 73 john, kx4o On Sat, April 22, 2017 01:24, Eddy Avila wrote: > Greetings all, I'm curious to hear from anyone using a portable HF > magnetic loop. I've read the theory behind them so I'd like to hear your > opinion about them? How efficient these antennas are, especially running > qRP. > > > Thanks all, > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] [KX3] Adding TX/RX "Relay" to KX3 Operation
All, Oh the things that come up for Field Day with just weeks left to prepare. Say someone commits to bringing a "mighty-fine" RX only electrically steerable antenna of some sort to field day 2016. Not wanting to be forever mechanically switching between TX and RX antennas... How would you approach adding an automatic TX/RX swtiching capability to a KX3 operating QRP? Would you consider some sort of "diode" switch or stick with good ole mechanical relays? I have my thoughts, but thank you all in advance for yours. John, kx4o __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] This will effect pilots and Hams throughout the Western US
Time to refit my Rose bag for a sextant and charts... and a fine watch? John, kx4o On Fri, June 10, 2016 20:03, Fred Townsend wrote: > > This Is Likely Why The Navy Is Causing A Massive And Mysterious GPS > Outage > In The Western US - The Drive > > > http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3865/this-is-likely-why-the-navy-is- > cau sing-a-massive-and-mysterious-gps-outage-in-the-western-us > > Fred, AE6QL > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Bonding KX3/PX3/KXPA100 - any examples?
I wish I had more pictures, but this one... http://www.hamradio.me/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/20150627-009.jpg ...from my FD article... http://www.hamradio.me/activities/kx4o-1b-battery-va-field-day-2015.html ...shows a strap of copper running behind all the gear shown roughly following K9YC's advice. I used some 1/4 inch braid I found somewhere, crimped some lugs on each end and connected each chassis to the strap. The RigBlaster connects via one of its case mounting screws. The PX3 and KX3 connect via one of the chassis thumbscrews. Not shown is a 5V linear regulator to power my USB splitter from a Pb equiv. battery. It uses the copper strap as the heatsink. This works quite well. I've never encountered the noisy conditions that Jim's steps help mitigate, but I think it is a good idea regardless. John, kx4o On Fri, June 3, 2016 14:14, David Orman wrote: > Hi, > > > After reading Jim/K9YC's helpful documentation, as well as various > suggestions on this and other lists, it's clear bonding equipment together > is a good plan. I'm curious to see _how_ people have done this with > their KX3/PX3/KXPA100 combinations, as in what points (thumbscrews for the > feet? something else?) they are bonding together, using what kind of > braid/wire, and how they've got everything put together in general. I > searched Google with minimal luck finding any such examples, and I think > it would be useful for the group to see some good examples of how things > should be done. > > Thank you, > David/K5DJO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX2 haiku (attempt )
The Haiku format: Contains seven five seven 'syllables' okay? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 IQ Outputs - What to expect?
On Tue, March 17, 2015 05:16, Peter Lambert wrote: Thanks Peter. Good clues and I will have a look. Schematics printed and heading to work where we maintain an electronics lab that is an anti-static wonderland. I wonder, though, if there isn't some external forensics to try first. I mean if the I or Q are not proper at the points you mention, there should be some evidence in the operation right? Although I do note proper I an Q levels when the VFO is close to the test frequency and within the demodulating bandwidth. Elecraft has been sent a note along with o-scope plots of the IQ out connector, but I will perform a visual inspection of the spots you mention. John Hello again John, Looking at the schematic, any difference you see should be so slight that you'd not make comment on it. If it were me I'd take a look at the inductors LD-LG (on page 4 of the schematic) to see if there is the possibility of one of them being shorted. I haven't had look at these but it's common to twist the terminating wires together - a likely spot for a short. I'd stick the CRO on the output of each of the 4 inductors (where the circuit shows RX_I and RX_Q and the opposite side of C1K and C1L) all the levels here should be pretty much identical. Of course you can only expect this over the range of +- 96kHz or so. 73's Peter VK4JD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
Thanks Walter. I think I understand now. What is the loop bandwidth of the power control loop? Thanks. John, kx4o On Mon, March 2, 2015 05:54, Walter Underwood wrote: No. Most likely the power varied as it was hunting for the right level. It probably started low then increased power slowly throughout each transmission. wunder Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) On Mar 1, 2015, at 9:44 PM, John k...@hamradio.me wrote: Is it safe to say my very low input audio level was compensated by the KX3's power control loop to yield 5 watts out (the actual radio power setting)? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Adjustable RTY/PSK Idle Timeout
Hi Don.
I'm aware of the IM feature and I do make use of it during casual use.
However, I'm trying to make the most of the CAT sending capability of the
KX3 and USB cable in a contesting/event situation (like Field Day) using
N1MM, but without audio interfacing.
For N1MM macros can one embed this IM into a KY command string without
it becoming an I followed by an M? I did try this, but it just comes out
I and M as I suspected it would. On another KX3 group, Wayne mentioned
other methods including sending 0x04 and using a | symbol. Neither seems
to work in the N1MM macro context.
The good news is I have successfully programmed the macro to terminate
right after sending using this N1MM macro string designed for the VaQP...
F1 Run CQ,{CATA1ASC KY CQ VQP CQ VQP;}{CATA1ASC KYW DE {MYCALL}{MYCALL}
QRZ;}{CATA1ASC RX;}
This nicely waits to execute that last RX command till after the last
character is sent to the KX3, but the RX executes immediately cutting off
that last character mid transmit. Somewhere somehow I need to introduce a
delay between the last character sent and the execution of the RX command
long enough to finish transmitting that last character in RTTY or PSK31.
As I understand it, a RTTY character takes about 165 milliseconds to
transmit and the worst case PSK31 character (10 bits) takes about 313
milliseconds.
There are several potential solutions.
First I would never want the RX command to change since having something
that instantly takes the KX3 out of transmit is a good thing. So a new
command (i.e. RXABE - RX after buffer empty?) that puts the KX3 into
receive only after the character buffer has completed transmission might
be nice.
I suspect the simplest solution of all is for me to eliminate the RX
command in the N1MM macro string and the KX3 provide a method to adjust
that 4 second idle time to user preference. This could be:
DATA_IDLE_TIME: 4s (default), 2s, 1s, 0.5s, etc.
...or maybe...
DATA_IDLE_TIME: 4s (default), ASAP
Where ASAP = 200 milliseconds for RTTY and 400 milliseconds for PSK31
At this point, I'd be happy with a 1 second idle time option to complement
the 4s ragchew default.
All hail software defined radios where feature requests like this actually
have a possibility of implementation.
John, kx4o
On Wed, February 25, 2015 05:08, Don Wilhelm wrote:
John,
Send the IM character to stop transmission immediately. That is sent as
a prosign would be - dit dit dah dah, and not as 2 letters. If you have
trouble sending it correctly, think of it as sending the numeral 2 without
the last dah. You can also imbed that character in memories. It will not
send anything in CW, but will end transmission immediately in data modes.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 2/24/2015 9:32 PM, John wrote:
Hello,
Is the default 4 second idle timeout in the KX3's built-in keyer
RTTY/PSK31 transmit feature something we can adjust to, say, 1/2
second? It seems all too often a response is well underway by the time
the transmission ends in quick QSO conditions.
__
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[Elecraft] Toughness
Field Users, Which Elecraft products stand up best to knocks, bumps, etc. seen while fielding a station? Thanks. John, kx4o __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Toughness
Understood about the external features Ingo and good advice. My primary concern is over the internal soundness of products touted as portable. Thruhole and surface mount components are quite sturdy. Edge and header connectors are, well, good enough most times. My primary concern are those round masses held with wisps of wire... toroids. Has anyone ever seen toroids come loose and turn their rig into a maraca? John, kx4o On Mon, April 9, 2012 13:59, Ingo Meyer, DK3RED wrote: I think the elecraft transceiver are all robust for fielddays or portable use. But all transceivers have knobs, jackets and displays, which shold be sheltered during transportation. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Toughness
The ultimate goal is backpacking a 10W K2 on certain trips. Thanks to all for the inputs thus far. It sounds like things should be fine so long as common sense is applied to packing plus no drop kicking of the pack. John, kx4o On Mon, April 9, 2012 19:56, Mike Heitmann wrote: I can vouch for that. I backpack with my KX1 and have never had a problem with it. It's been a workhorse for me, and will continue to serve in that capacity until my KX3 arrives (although, I'm beginning to wonder if that will ever really happen). I also have a K2 with the 100W and and auto tuner in a separate enlcosure. Never a problem with them either. I've not ever taken the K2 backpacking but I have used it for fixed portable ops and for demos and had no trouble with it. They're pretty tough when properly assembled. Mike, N0SO is fragile, modern electronics is not). I have over 600 repairs to my credit and have never seen a broken toroid wire. If the toroids are mounted with the leads snugged down, they will not move substantially after soldering. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Supply Voltage Range Elecraft K2 transceiver
Hi Rolf, Judging from the K2 schematic, there is no over-voltage protection, save for the SB530 (D12) reverse protection diode which, in normal hookup, won't do much until the bus hits ~30V; This is clearly meant for reverse protection only and really that's taken care of with D10. I guess D12 is there in case someone drives power reversed into P3. Smart. A related question concerning whether the K2 can handle high voltages is... Did the K2 designers have automotive power systems in mind when designing the rest of the circuitry that touches their 12V internal bus? This implies 9-15 nominal voltage, as their spec. sheet suggests, but also implies the ability to handle the addition of power bus ripple up to ~16.5 Volts peak and temporary spikes/surges up to 25 volts or more... the real world of vehicle power busses. 9-18 Vdc is the usual nominal rating for anything that connects to a 12V automotive power bus. A quick glance at all the parts touching 12V or 12V IN finds items with ratings of 20V (6V Reg.), 22V (Audio Amp), 25 V (Finals), 26V nom. 40V peak (8V reg.), etc. I suspect nothing will punch through those higher rated parts when run at 16V. However, I would have concern over the power dissipation of those finals and voltage regulators when running more than 15V. Given the voltage ratings of the K2 parts on the 12V bus, I wouldn't connect a K2 to an automotive power bus without a peak clamping circuit inline... similar to D28 in the K3 design. However, you are asking about 4S Lithium Battery Packs. Until someone runs a stress analysis on the key warm parts in the K2, I would not run it beyond 15V. You can do what other 4S Lithium converts from many industries (who face this exact same problem) do... put a low dropout regulator in series with the pack and set it to 14V or so. This ensures you are not pushing power dissipation in the K2's parts beyond their design limits. John, kx4o On 1/12/12 4:49 AM, rolf wrote: Elecraft specifies the voltage supply range for the K2 transceiver to 9-15 Volts. snip Question: Keeping the RF power output and the DC Current of the K below the maximum limit, is it possible to apply a supply voltage exceeding 16 V without causing a failure to the electronic components in the K2? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] LiPol battery pack and KX3 - voltage vs output
Being a switching circuit topology, boost circuits' efficiencies can well exceed 50% and often 80%. Some are in the nineties. You can think of them as a constant power circuit which will tend to consume more current as the voltage drops to deliver the same power to the load. What this means to your battery life is hard to say. Lithiums can maintain a decent current till the voltage dives off the cliff so your idea has merit. However, the boost circuit is a switching circuit and generates a ton of noise that requires special care in design to reduce. It's not impossible to achieve, but not easy. For simplicity's sake, you are likely to be better off adding one more cell in series and using a linear low dropout (LDO) regulator to ensure the voltage never exceeds 15V or whatever Elecraft says is the practical max. As the battery voltage lowers below 15V+headroom the voltage will track downwards with a small loss. LDOs sometimes misbehave (oscillate) at the point where the Vheadroom drops below regulation, but the lower loss is usually worth it. Lots of choices exist including just living with the 3 cell voltage. The switcher is likely too noisy. The LDO allows for max voltage longer. A plain old linear regulator with 2V+ headroom might work too, but you are wasting a bit more power. John, kx4o I'm not an EE so maybe someone who is can answer my question. A boost circuit certainly cannot have 100% efficiency, but how efficient would it be? Some of the energy in the battery will be consumed by the boost circuit and not available to the radio. So then how does one evaluate whether using a boost circuit will get you more operating time or not? I presume it must have something to do with the flatness of the battery's discharge curve and also whether you need more than 5 watts. David K0LUM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] OT Quality UHF Connectors
All, Does anyone know a good source of UHF connectors? If so, please respond off list with Make, Model and, if you have it, Vendor. Thanks. John, kx4o __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 - Board Cleaning and Conformal Coating
All, Being in the electronics biz, we usually wash boards post assembly with the usual products and in accordance with IPC610, etc. Often, the boards are sprayed with conformal coating: Some to handle condensing environments and others just because someone wanted it. My operating locations will include salty beaches and moist mountains. I couldn't find details in the K2 manual concerning these steps. I did find a few posts in old Elecraft archives, but need to ask... Are there any components used in the K2 boards that will not tolerate typical board washing procedures? (Most modern components expect this step, but some don't - often switches) Is there any reason not to conformal coat the boards once complete? (Cost is no object to make this last a long time in beach environments) Thanks. John __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charger Voltage High?
Keep in mind automotive power busses can and do have steady state voltages over 15V and even 16V when you include allowable ripple. Power busses are a terrible terrible place. Assuming the K3 designers' had in mind a car's electrical system, the choice of the BZW50-15 (in the QRP version) puts the effective clamping voltage above 16.6 volts and even then it is a gradual rise in clamping action vs. voltage. Then if you take away the 1/2 volt or so drop from the reverse protection, the net bus voltage inside can be more than 16V steady state and even higher for brief surges. Yuck. Clearly the designers' know about real-life DC power busses and designed the rest of the radio to take the abuse with some margin and rely on that clamp diode to blow the fuse should things get hopelessly ridiculous on the power source. So the good news is the K3 should be able to take the smack in the face from what I assume is a PWM style battery charger when in trickle mode. However, I would not make a habit of it and heed others' advice about staying within the 15V limit with a good DC power supply or charge with the radio disconnected. It should have less electrical noise as a side benefit. John Dick, Yes, 16 volts is too high. There is a 15 volt zener diode right at the DC input of the K3 which should limit the voltage to the K3 at 15 volts (or until that zener diode is damaged). The charger may be dropping into the bulk charge output rather than staying in the trickle charge state. You may be better off with a simple trickle charger than a 2 or 3 state battery charger. 73, Don W3FPR On 5/26/2011 1:58 PM, r...@aol.com wrote: Hi Guys, I'm operating from a portable location and using a 12-volt automobile battery with my K3. To keep the battery charged I'm using a Schumacher 15-Amp Charger/Maintainer that automatically switches to Trickle Charge when the battery is charged. My concern is that when the charger is connected the battery voltage is peaking at 16.0 volts. The K3 manual says maximum voltage is 15 volts. Do I need to be concerned about powering the K3 with 16.0 volts? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] XV432 Oscillates with Amp connected
All the suggestions about trying different cable lengths are good thoughts to help find the sweet spot of compatibility between the XV432 output circuit impedance and the Henry input impedance. Folks on the repeater-builder group talk about this very issue often; Of course in their case they are concerned about the transmitter feeding a reactive duplexer assembly. Oscillations don't seem to be the issue presented, rather, the tendency of the transmitter output stage to produce other by-products when forced to feed a reactive load, such as a narrow band-pass duplexer, causes unhappiness in the transmitter. Spurious signals are the result. The oft touted simple cure proposed is try different lengths of cable between TX and Combiner. The more professional solution is to place an Isolator between the TX and the Amp during transmit. One example is shown here... http://www.rflambda.com/pdf/isolator/RFLI101M40M50.pdf This way, the TX only ever sees a nice infinite coax assuming, of course, the third port is properly terminated into 50 ohms. Of course you need to receive as well and the isolator won't help with that by itself. So all I have done here is to propose a workable, but unwieldy and expensive solution if, in fact, the cause of the oscillations is impedance issues between the XV432 output stage and the Henry input stage. The point is impedance issues between a Source and Load can cause the source to not play nice. Let's hope your problem is just a feedback path solved with chokes. John Good day, I'm working with the XV432, Flex 1500 and Henry 2004A Amp. The rig, xvrtr and amp PTTs are sequenced. Hoping somebody might have been down this path before and has a solution. If I connect the transverter output to the amp (or different pieces of open coax) and key the transverter, the power meter goes full scale and I see an oscillation on the spectrum analyzer. The frequency of the oscillation varies with the load. (i.e. amp connected or different lengths of coax) If I connect the XV432 to a 50 ohm load, no oscillations and all works well. I ran through the alignment procedure again with the XV432 connected to a 50 Ohm load. All the voltages look right and the tuning is smooth. (e.g. 20mV Quiescent Current Adjustment, TP3/TP4) It's obvious the XV432 is happy into 50 Ohms, but not into impedances that wander from 50 Ohms. BTW, I have added all the mods as per the Elecraft website. Any ideas? 73's Stu2 W7IY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 and K3 Microphone Input Impedance
Wayne et al. I am surveying various rigs to see what their microphone input impedance values might be. I note the K3 schematics show just about every audio path including the microphone's path terminated in 10k ohms or so. In the KSB2 I see 1k ohm (or 180 ohms if /ATTEN is asserted). Was there a compelling reason for having different termination values, 10k vs. 1k, between transceiver model lines? Thanks. John __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Overvoltage Protector Update
Nice circuit. Since this is meant to help protect the K3 from faulty power supplies, this begs the question of what abuse can the K3 (or K2) take from the power bus. As an automotive power bus is a terrible awful place, will the K3 design tolerate these typical values found on a vehicle power rail: - Steady State Voltage between 12.5 to 15 Vdc, - Upper and lower ripple of +/- 1 Vpeak riding on the Steady State values, - Surge values between 9 and 20 Vdc for 600 ms, - Spikes of +/- 125 Volts peaking for 70 uS falling to steady state levels after 1 ms, ? I've updated the drawing to include construction notes and a mechanical sketch: http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~scotte/hr/OVP.pdf The large heat sink, I know, will seem to some like overkill. To me, an extra 20 bucks seems like cheap insurance. See the notes. As W8JI notes, a simpler circuit just uses a zener diode to drive the SCR. I chose the more complex version to allow the trip point to be set close to the operating voltage. The K3, for example, has a maximum rating of 15.0 V, too close to 13.8 for the simpler circuit. At the moment, all the parts are available from Digi-Key. Scott K9MA On Aug 20, 2010, at 3:00 PM, Scott Ellington wrote: Some power supplies, like the Samlex SEC 1235, have no built-in __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K1: power output gauge
One experiment to try is to transmit into a dummy load of 75 -100 or so ohms. The idea is to produce a consistent SWR other than 1:1 to see how things behave in non-ideal, but consistent circumstances. I am not sure what you will see, but the results might help with understanding. Elwood C. Downey wrote: Hello all, I've had K1 S/N 2594 on the air for a few months now and having a blast. Great transceiver. Thanks elecraft! But I'm curious about the power output scale. I have Out set to 5 W. I'm on 40m. My antenna SWR is about 1.7:1 at 7.00 and 7.15 MHz and dips smoothly down each way to about 1.2:1 in the middle at about 7.08. However, the number of power bars is 5 at each end of the band and 4 in the middle, just opposite of what I would expect given the SWR profile. With the DL1 dummy load, it's 5 bars all across the band. Yes, I read the power output accuracy disclaimer in the manual and I'm not complaining, just curious about this behavior. No, I do not have the KAT1 antenna tuner. Thanks much, Elwood, WB0OEW, Socorro, NM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Diversity at 50 MHz
Mike Scott wrote: I am building a 3-element 6-meter quad while waiting for my 2nd batch K3. Before final build a new thought... Instead of building a quad I could alternatively make the spreader arms a little longer and configure two cross-polarized 3-element yagis. The thought would be to drive two receivers in polarization diversity. Does anyone have any experince with the value of polarization diversity at 50 MHz? I am inexperienced on this band. I know everyone goes horizontal polarization for VHF weak signal work but once the signal gets refracted back to ground level the actual polarization may be rotated. BTW, Lyle have you thought about ways to optimumly combine diversity receiver outputs other than just piping them into seperate ears? I could imagine actually calculating a time averaged received polarization angle and differential delay between channels and then combining... For what it's worth many folks take the 3dB hit and combine the horizontal and vertical feeds with a quadrature combiner (or you can phase lag the horizontal and vertical antennas by 90 phase degrees). This goes a long way towards reducing signal fade via polarization rotation. This is, of course, combining in the RF domain which I don't think is what you were seeking. The other folks in this thread suggest the polarization issues are not too big a deal in the 6M band. Perhaps. One thing is for sure... your high water mark in complexity need not exceed your dual Yagi with both feeds ending up in your station where you can then select or combine with arm chair comfort. That kind of flexibility would be cool. Mike Scott-AE6WA Tarzana, CA (DM04/near LA) QRP-ARCI #12326/ KX1 #1311/ Swan 350C No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1202 - Release Date: 12/29/2007 1:27 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Iambic Keying - Debunking the Myth
I love this discussion. Being a beginner CW person (practical fast CW anyway) I was pondering what key to get: Single vs. Double paddles. The single lever would pay more homage to my OM who did 40+ WPM in WW2 using what he called a bug. I am not sure what bug meant then, but I sure wanted to be like him. Then a Begali came up for sale on Ebay last night... a double paddle. I grabbed it up with Buy it now and cannot wait to see what happens next. I still only think in left or right and have not squeezed much yet, but am an eager student. Thank you all for re-inspiring me to get better at CW no matter what approach I find. John David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: Thank you for putting the other side of the case, I'm one of those 'who are still trying to figure out how the wind blows'. I have a K3 on order and purchased a HexKey at the same time, thinking it would be rather nice to have a key from Elecraft to go with the K3. However, as yet I can't send any Morse, having only got to the point of 'almost' reading it all, and that at rather low speed. So, I'm not sure whether to keep the HexKey on order, since shipment to the UK would be expensive if I wasn't shipping the K3 + as well. Or if I should go for a much cheaper single paddle alternative from the UK. I know this will be a matter of personal preference, but that's hard to make with previous experience at all to fall back to. On 10/9/07 15:17, David A. Belsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: I have chimed in here against my better judgement because I feel this is an issue that has to be solved by each individual. I know nothing I say is going to change the minds of the fundamentalists on issues like these, but for those who are still trying to figure out how the wind blows, I simply say, put up your own wetted finger and come to your own conclusions -- they are the only ones that count. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] rig size
Another question is, for the contester, which transmitter and receiver parameters deserve their very own control knob? John Charles Harpole wrote: Even today's rigs have plenty of panel space only today that part is called the top (or the bottom). I say, set it on its rear . Computer tower configurations won out over the flat type like the first IBM PCs cases ham radio can do that too. Which do u want Low and deep Wide and shallow ? Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ More photos; more messages; more whatever. Windows Live Hotmail - NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_5G_0907 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Microphones for K2/3
Thank you for the hints. Thanks to your and other's comments on the Elecraft list I have found numerous good examples with some as minimalistic as a FET + passives all the way to a good Instrumentation Amp + passives. This has inspired me to create a circuit based more on the modern In-Amp method leaving the only question of what the input impedance and range of typical radio mic inputs. Plus a survey of what voltage and current are available on the mic connector helps design for the most radios. In support of this I am scoring some wins on D104 mics on Ebay which are available on the cheap. Fun stuff... perhaps I will make this available as a kit for fellow D104 freaks. John Greg Derda wrote: I am pretty sure that there are a couple of very simple circuits in W1FB's Design Notebook that specifically use the D104 - modern_radio as an example. Greg KI4MMM K2 #6100 On Sep 6, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: John, If your D104 is an older one with the high impedance crystal or ceramic element, yes it will not work so well (if at all). There was an article in QST about a year ago with a circuit design that had a very high impedance input and the low impedance output required by modern day radios, although a transformer with the right ratio should work too. Another alternative is to change the element in the D104. Heil offers a kit to do just that - check www.heilsound.com for info. My D104 with an HC5 element draws comments from time to time. 73, Don W3FPR John Huggins wrote: Thanks for the information all. So... I guess hooking up a D104 straight to K2 is not going to work out so well. Yes I know this is like putting tail fins on a Ford Taurus, but the kids really dig talking into a mic like that during times we promote ham radio. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Balanced AT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/6/07 7:42:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the market would be a lot more than limited. Particularly if the tuner part could be remoted. If Elecraft made it, the market would be enormous, IMHO. Imagine being able to mount a weatherproof box outside, run the balanced-line to it, then run coax into the shack - and the coax runs at very low SWR, so it can be pretty long without having much loss. Seems to me that the basic principles used in the KAT2 and other relay-based ATUs could be adapted to a balanced tuner. 73 de Jim, N2EY Here is one that seems to seek that market and might fit the bill... http://www.hamware.de/hardware/tuner502/descr-at502-e.pdf - seems semi-automatic though John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Microphones for K2/3
Charles Harpole wrote: I see that now Elecraft is offering sale of a Heil K2 Pro Set mic/headphone unit, saying it is optimized for K2. I assume that also means K3. Charles brings up a good point. What is it that makes any microphone optimized for any radio. Pin outs are obvious of course. - Impedance? - Bandwidth? - Signal Strength? John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Microphones for K2/3
Thanks for the information all. So... I guess hooking up a D104 straight to K2 is not going to work out so well. Yes I know this is like putting tail fins on a Ford Taurus, but the kids really dig talking into a mic like that during times we promote ham radio. The D104 with my old Kenwood TS-520 still receives great audio reports and I would like to continue that tradition in some way with new gear. Crazy? John Don Wilhelm wrote: John and all, You are correct that 'Heil Proset' by itself does not adequately describe the microphone. As is the case with all Heil mics, one must also be specific about the mic element used. The K2 works best with an electret element because they have higher output levels. The K3 FAQ pages indicate that it has adequate mic gain to handle the lower output Heil HC4 and HC5 elements. The Heil Proset K2 can be used with either the K2 or the K3, and it comes with the Elecraft adapter. 73, Don W3FPR John R. Lonigro wrote: John and Charles: The Heil Prosets with the HC-4 or HC-5 elements don't have quite enough output to drive the K2 without either an external preamp or tweaking of the K2's internal circuitry. The version with the electret element seems to work better with the K2. I believe the Heil K2 Proset is essentially the version with the electret element, but I'm not 100% certain on that matter. All Prosets require an adapter to match your particular mic jack configuration, so that is not a factor. No idea about the K3. 73's, John AA0VE ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K2 with internal battery?
Hello all, As I creep towards my K2 definition... - Low wattage is fine - SSB option (yeah I know I probably want 100 watts with this, but I still want it) - DSP Board maybe ...and since one person spoke about the coolness of taking one and only one box to the picnic table along with a simple wire... - Internal antenna tuner - Internal battery option ...are must have options. However, reading today's threads about leaking batteries renews my concerns about batteries in general. So is there a consensus that internal batteries, while functionally terrific, are just trouble waiting to happen? Thanks, as usual, for your inputs. John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Battery Technologies
Thanks for the information. At my job we deal with these lightweight chemistries in batteries for Unpiloted Aerial Vehicles. You can guess the requirements: provide unlimited Whours/kg, tolerate -40 to +80C temps, exhibit lift, etc. We have been watching very closely the progress in the Lithium Battery world and I am happy to report progress on this technology is quite fantastic. Safety has received important attention too. So not only has progress occurred in the laboratory of the RC World (you know... the, run them at 30C and see what happens crowd), but manufacturers are doing a bang up job of extending temperature range, energy density and a bit less tendency to start a good ol' Lithium fire. We have never had one catch fire yet, but then again we don't run our batteries at extreme currents. We often have some of the Lithium Ion Polymer packs suddenly decide to expand their casing like a balloon. We have never seen the package burst though. My technician did a little research and found that slowly, very slowly, recharging the pack tends to shrink them back down back to normal. We don't fly these packs again of course, but so far they seem to act normal. We finally got tired waiting for one of these things to self ignite so we took one we pulled from service, but a charge on it and then tapped a nail through it. We witnessed some small jet like flames, but nothing like the way cool over charge tests the RC folks have done with inferno results. Being light in weight makes them attractive options for the backpacker crowd. I am almost ready to consider carrying these things on my body, but not quite yet. I want a little more safety first. Is there a ham web site somewhere that is collecting information on these latest batteries for use in the ham way? If not, perhaps I will add that thread to mine. John Kevin Rock wrote: Better link to Spectrum article on A123: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep07/5490 Kevin. KD5ONS On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:05:32 -0700, Jim Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've likewise chosen external power for my K2. The ongoing tests by the RC airplane folks of the Dewalt Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries may finally cause me to put some batteries in my K2. Google A123 for more info. 73 jim ab3cv ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Final Amplifier Class
Ladies and Gentlemen, I frequently contribute technical knowhow to a CB trucker's forum (before you press delete please read on). The question came up concerning my assertion the single final transistor amplifier, typical in CB transmitter output circuits, operates as a Class A amplifier since the modulation required is AM and sometimes SSB, both being amplitude style modulations, and both desiring of good linearity in the amplification (at least I think so). I know for sure CB output circuits are not push pull since they have only one power amplifying transistor. Some are suggesting the less than 180° Class C amplification method is what CBs use. I understand this requires a good tank circuit to complete the sine waves, but is supposedly inappropriate for amplitude style modulations like AM, DSB and SSB. Various resources suggest Class C is fine for CW and FM. I am sure by now you are saying That's interesting John, really, but what does this have to do with Elecraft? Well, I suddenly remembered some advertisement for an HF Ham Transceiver that offered Class A mode in its output circuit for some improvement in some parameter. Funny thing is I guess I thought Ham Transceivers always used either Class A with a single device or, perhaps, Class AB or B in a push-pull arrangement. What I need to know from Elecraft and/or any of you is: - What is the final amplifier class (A, AB, B or C) used in, say, the KX1, K2 or K3? - Is it actually possible to use Class C with an amplitude modulation scheme like AM, DSB and/or SSB? - Is the final amplifer in the KPA100 Class A? - Do most Ham Transmitters utilize pairs of power devices in a Class AB or B in a push-pull arrangement? Hopefully this will fine tune my EE knowledge of circuits and make sure I have not missed something I should know so I can continue to represent the ham community well when offering advice to the other radio groups. Thanks for your help. John KX4O ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Final Amplifier Class
Yes the handbooks are the place to go and I will sit with one tonight to reboot. A splendid suggestion thanks. The information on what modern Ham Transceivers (like the K2 and K3) do is also very handy. Thanks for that too. John Gazdzinski, Brett J (Brett) wrote: On AM, most CB sets, if not all, use class c in the final, (single device), and collector modulate it with a push pull class b modulator. Look up plate modulation, same thing but with tubes. You use class C on FM, and class ab1, ab2, or class b on ssb. Most modern ham rigs if not all use low level modulation on AM, like ssb but with both sidebands and a carrier, and amplify it like ssb, but with a much higher duty cycle. Class C can only be used with CW, FM or plate/collector modulation AM. SSB amplifiers (and AM amps) can be class B, AB1, or AB2, or A. Class A is VERY inefficient! All this stuff and more is in the handbooks. Brett N2DTS Ladies and Gentlemen, I frequently contribute technical knowhow to a CB trucker's forum (before you press delete please read on). The question came up concerning my assertion the single final transistor amplifier, typical in CB transmitter output circuits, operates as a Class A amplifier since the modulation required is AM and sometimes SSB, both being amplitude style modulations, and both desiring of good linearity in the amplification (at least I think so). I know for sure CB output circuits are not push pull since they have only one power amplifying transistor. Some are suggesting the less than 180° Class C amplification method is what CBs use. I understand this requires a good tank circuit to complete the sine waves, but is supposedly inappropriate for amplitude style modulations like AM, DSB and SSB. Various resources suggest Class C is fine for CW and FM. I am sure by now you are saying That's interesting John, really, but what does this have to do with Elecraft? Well, I suddenly remembered some advertisement for an HF Ham Transceiver that offered Class A mode in its output circuit for some improvement in some parameter. Funny thing is I guess I thought Ham Transceivers always used either Class A with a single device or, perhaps, Class AB or B in a push-pull arrangement. What I need to know from Elecraft and/or any of you is: - What is the final amplifier class (A, AB, B or C) used in, say, the KX1, K2 or K3? - Is it actually possible to use Class C with an amplitude modulation scheme like AM, DSB and/or SSB? - Is the final amplifer in the KPA100 Class A? - Do most Ham Transmitters utilize pairs of power devices in a Class AB or B in a push-pull arrangement? Hopefully this will fine tune my EE knowledge of circuits and make sure I have not missed something I should know so I can continue to represent the ham community well when offering advice to the other radio groups. Thanks for your help. John KX4O ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Final Amplifier Class
Thank you all for your help with the Amplifier Class questions. I have found schematics and confirmed CBs use Class B in the final, the driver and sometimes earlier transistor circuits which ultimately feed a tank circuit before output to the antenna; It is clear the modulation happens way before it becomes 27MHz which makes good sense. By the way this all came about because I was trying to make a point to the CB crowd about their radios being constructed with the barest minimum components to get the job done. The CB finals I found handle 6 watt average max (heat sinked of course) which I hope will dissuade folks from trying to tweak tens of watts continuous out of these poor radios. As a bonus I learned more about how the various Elecraft products do their thing and for that I thank you all. We can consider this thread closed. Onward to a K2... John Huggins wrote: Yes the handbooks are the place to go and I will sit with one tonight to reboot. A splendid suggestion thanks. The information on what modern Ham Transceivers (like the K2 and K3) do is also very handy. Thanks for that too. John Gazdzinski, Brett J (Brett) wrote: On AM, most CB sets, if not all, use class c in the final, (single device), and collector modulate it with a push pull class b modulator. Look up plate modulation, same thing but with tubes. You use class C on FM, and class ab1, ab2, or class b on ssb. Most modern ham rigs if not all use low level modulation on AM, like ssb but with both sidebands and a carrier, and amplify it like ssb, but with a much higher duty cycle. Class C can only be used with CW, FM or plate/collector modulation AM. SSB amplifiers (and AM amps) can be class B, AB1, or AB2, or A. Class A is VERY inefficient! All this stuff and more is in the handbooks. Brett N2DTS Ladies and Gentlemen, I frequently contribute technical knowhow to a CB trucker's forum (before you press delete please read on). The question came up concerning my assertion the single final transistor amplifier, typical in CB transmitter output circuits, operates as a Class A amplifier since the modulation required is AM and sometimes SSB, both being amplitude style modulations, and both desiring of good linearity in the amplification (at least I think so). I know for sure CB output circuits are not push pull since they have only one power amplifying transistor. Some are suggesting the less than 180° Class C amplification method is what CBs use. I understand this requires a good tank circuit to complete the sine waves, but is supposedly inappropriate for amplitude style modulations like AM, DSB and SSB. Various resources suggest Class C is fine for CW and FM. I am sure by now you are saying That's interesting John, really, but what does this have to do with Elecraft? Well, I suddenly remembered some advertisement for an HF Ham Transceiver that offered Class A mode in its output circuit for some improvement in some parameter. Funny thing is I guess I thought Ham Transceivers always used either Class A with a single device or, perhaps, Class AB or B in a push-pull arrangement. What I need to know from Elecraft and/or any of you is: - What is the final amplifier class (A, AB, B or C) used in, say, the KX1, K2 or K3? - Is it actually possible to use Class C with an amplitude modulation scheme like AM, DSB and/or SSB? - Is the final amplifer in the KPA100 Class A? - Do most Ham Transmitters utilize pairs of power devices in a Class AB or B in a push-pull arrangement? Hopefully this will fine tune my EE knowledge of circuits and make sure I have not missed something I should know so I can continue to represent the ham community well when offering advice to the other radio groups. Thanks for your help. John KX4O ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector
Charles Harpole wrote: So called D connectors have design specifications issued by various mfg of them. Most list a limited life of 10 to 30 plug/unplug cycles. That is from the designers. Of course, hams often push design specs well beyond those published... 10-30 plug/unplug cycles is for those who use cheap components and/or don't expect the need for many cycles (a printer for example). If there is concern about cycling lifetime, consider using a D-Shell or HD D-Shell that complies with MIL-DTL-24308; Cycling lifetime is much higher that the 10-30. http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-DTL-24308/dtl24308.pdf They are available and are more robust models of the classic D-Shells. They have been around for many decades now and are a fine choice. but much more than reliability is the issue of USE-ABILITY. The K3 is a field radio and under the most remote and demanding condx, anderson Powerpole and these D thingies are the first frustrations UNLESS If u have 1. steady soldering hands 2. very good eyesight 3. extra patience 4. proper small soldering tools 5. a proper crimper 6. extra care when plugging and unplugging, and 7. a large parts store locally in ur area, Granted, but even the most modest electrical/electronics workbench has at least some of these items and once you have your cables complete and made with good components and, perhaps, include a spare set, you should be good to go. THEN, you can welcome these toy (D) or non standard (APP) connectors. Cheap D-Shell connectors are toys. Good D-Shell connectors are good enough for harsh military conditions and are certainly not toys. Anderson Power Poles have become a standard. What is better, altho old stuff--- Cinch Jones (or even Molex) and below that, screw terminal strips and/or binding posts. If u r stuck with only bare wire and MUST make a connection, sticking a bare wire tip into a Jones socket is DO-ABLE, or even into a Molex try that with D s and even with the APPs. Old has its place, but has its costs and frequently ignores valid progress. The JA folks who gave us DIN connectors are now roasting in Small Connector Hell, where they have to solder 30 pin DINs with the firey heat of their bare fingers and are dipped bodily into molten solder for every mistake. Hahahaha... I think I agree with you on this one. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] DL1 Building a success, Soldering Iron Runaway
My kid and I just finished off the DL1 Dummy Load. Simple? Yes, but it introduced quite nicely some basic soldering skills for the 12 year old. Also, it demonstrated one key requirement in kit building... Read the text of a particular step in its entirety. I let him read the steps and when we got to the one commanding Install the 100Ω Resistors he did not read the rest of the step suggesting to install them 1/16 inch above the board. Luckily being a circuit designer EE I figured elevating them made sense so we did, but if we had simply read the whole step we would not have had to guess. So hats off to Elecraft for producing good step by step documentation. Oh I also bought some new tips and shroud for my old Weller EC2001 Soldering Station. I had not used this in many years. We installed a new tip and shroud, turned it on and moved to doing the parts inventory. I looked up to see the tip red hot. Hmmm... I twiddled with the five pin connection between the iron and the base unit and it calmed down. All the while the temperature seemed to display what looked like a valid varying value around 700°F while it was clearly much higher. I don't know what happened, but I wanted to share the warning to visually verify your iron has not gone into heating runaway. I have heard folks say the five pin hand piece connector can be a little flaky. I guess this is why so many of you like the Weller with the ferromagnetic tips eh? On to the XG2 Receiver Test Oscillator... John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Narrow bandwidth ESSB?
Darwin, Keith wrote: I've wondered for a while how to achieve this. By this I mean top-notch SSB audio without resorting to wide bandwidth. Say we limit the bandwidth to 2.8 KHz. What sorts of things should be done to make the audio as good as possible? I'm thinking a signal chain like this: - Good condensor mic (probably not a communications mic) - Parametric EQ. - Compresser running 6:1 or so (RNC?) - Maybe a bit of overdrive (tube distortion, just a touch?) Hmmm well I think we know what you are after with the tube overdrive. You seek the rounded gain curve at the tube's input limits right? This is the same as a form of compression so I would just stick with a real compressor chip or device to get what you want. It should be noted since compression deviates from perfect translation from input to output, it is distortion... at least a form of it. So your view of tube distortion is an interesting one and is a good reminder that compression should be used gingerly. - BBE Sonic Maximizer to put some sparkle into things. Any other ideas? I think a lot can be done without resorting to wide bandwidth. I'm interested in clear audio that cuts through without sounding like a contester. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] PLL Clicks
About a week ago folks warned me about clicks (they said thumps) being a part of life with the K2 especially during higher periods of band activity. I am glad they told me. I am still going to order a K2 for the many other benefits despite this, apparently, known issue. It sounds like your symptoms are exactly this issue. Kevin Shaw wrote: I attached an antenna and I do hear clicks when I turn the VFO in both directions while on 40 meters. Probably due to the strong SW stations. I sold the radio last week and I had to take it back and refund the gentleman's money because of the clicks. Is this something that is inherent in the K2 design and affects all radios to some degree? Thanks, Kevin N8IQ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Shaw Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] PLL Clicks Don, Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately it reads 8.5 ohms. I'll have to look elsewhere. Kevin N8IQ -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:13 PM To: Kevin Shaw Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PLL Clicks Kevin, Check RFC15 on the bottom of the RF Board. You must check it with an ohmmeter - even if it is open you will find 5 volts on both sides of it. Should you find it open and do not have an immediate replacement, short across it, replace the bottom cover and re-run CAL PLL - then check again for the clicks. 73, Don W3FPR Kevin Shaw wrote: My K2 has the PLL Click problem when I turn the VFO. I've tried running CAL PLL with the covers on, but no luck. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] ESD
Kurt Pawlikowski wrote: Keith, As far as I know, resistors, capacitors and most (if not all) diodes will not be damaged by ESD. Note: Diodes will either conduct when forward biased or zener and conduct when backwards biased - thought I'm not sure about special diodes [barrier, shotkey (sp?), and the like]. And, normal ESD damage is caused by high potentials arching within the component. I believe diodes have plenty of capacity to absorb the power, either forward or reversed biased. Capacitors will simply charge (which is why attaching a capacitor to a Van de Graph generator is a Bozo no-no). At any rate, I have never heard of any of these types of components being damaged by ESD: Has anyone? While it is true caps can be relatively sturdy, capacitors are damaged by ESD if the high voltage appears across their leads despite what one might think of charge time. Any usual thinking of how caps work begins to break down once the peak voltage (not rated voltage, but whatever the much higher real peak voltage is - ie 400-1000V for a 100V ceramic) is exceeded even with the low low power of an ESD event. Audiophile Tube Stereo freaks recognize caps that have been zapped because they develop pinholes in their dielectric and begin to add pop and hiss to their sound. Thin film resistors are also easily hurt by ESD. Same with diodes. NASA is particularly anal about this (for obvious reasons) and have this to share... http://workmanship.nasa.gov/wppr_comp_c2mos.jsp While it is true not all ESD events cause damage. The outcome of a discharge to a sensitive device or assembly will depend on many factors, including: - device sensitivity - severity of ESD stress - actual strike site Some components handle ESD better than others, but none are entirely immune. If we are to assume Elecraft handles their parts with the care the parts probably received on their way to Elecraft (I hope this is so) and then delivered them to us with the same care, we should not break the chain of proper handling. ESD is so easy to do correctly why not treat all the parts with the same level of respect. The chances of success are probably measurably better. John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Conception of a K2
Thank you all for the comments. A rough summary includes: - Think ESD for the parts (no worries there... I am the ESD promoter at our electronics lab at work) - No parts in non ESD foam - No parts in cardboard, etc. - Small anti-static mat with wrist straps, etc. - Keep active parts in their black ESD foam - Seriously consider the re-work eliminators and other nifty things from http://www.unpcbs.com/ - Consider a good Cap/Inductance meter - Seriously consider using flush cutting snips - Certainly use a thermo controlled soldering iron with good assortment of tips - Use small diameter solder - Get a new #1 Phillips screwdriver - Seriously consider an illuminated magnifier or, perhaps, a mag. visor - On the same topic, have good lighting - Reference the example toroid images available from the K2 community - Use headers where possible - Dental pick and other assorted fiddling tools - Reserve a good amount of table space for the project - Consider pre-wound toroids - When inventorying parts, leave the resistors in their tape - Seriously consider starting with the XG2 and DL-1 dummy load to spin up on soldering skills - Seriously consider making the XG2 because it will be handy during the K2 build Excellent tips. Thank you all. The tip I am acting on first is the purchase and building of the XG2 as I think it is a wonderful plan to start small and work up. One of the main purposes is to ensure the 12 year old acquires some understanding of that stuff in the box is not magic. Anything I can do to notch up the technical aptitude of a future tax payer should hopefully yield benefits later. Thanks again all... onward... John KX4O http://www.cosjwt.com/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Conception of a K2
OK so I have decided to buy the base K2 kit and build it along with my son; He needs to see a process like this unfold. I have read the various FAQs, tips, etc. I am not new to kit building. We have a good soldering station. If the K2 works out well we will use it on CW for a while and then add enhancements: SSB first then others (perhaps DSP, 160M, 60M-Xvrter, 100Watts).. Are there tools or tips I am missing before I drop the coin? John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K2 good for exposing kids to electronics?
Both eh? Well not yet anyways. However, you have a good point about winding toroids and other elements of building a kit. I loved building Heathkits and know I can do this. but more importantly, this is an opportunity to do this with my 12 year old son. He needs to know that squeezing a coil changes things and this is one fine opportunity to expose him don't you think? Obviously I would be building the kit, but he could help. Jesse Justiss wrote: Both, I wouldn't miss winding toroid's and aligning filters, not to mention real soldering. Then seeing how close you can get WWV. The internal battery and tuner is a blast on the porch with an all band doublet with 600 ohm feeders. 10 to 15 watts with that antenna does quite well at times. Then plug in the 100 watt lid and outboard tuner for not so good conditions. And it will still embarrass most other radios. Now to save some more for my K3. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K2 and K3... oh which one to pick
Sigh... All this wonderful talk about the K2 and K3 has me right in the middle of a good quandary... - Do I buy a K2 with accessories (or add them later) and get it right now plus build time or... - Spring for a K3 with enough options for SSB and hope to get it before March 2008 (Virginia QSO Party) All this realizing that both units apparently fulfill my requirements for very good receiver de-sense immunity from nearby signals and are both pretty amazing radios. I am not sure, but does the K3's lush selection of filters suggest the K3's receiver design provides more selectivity and less de-sense than the K2 receiver? John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] USB Support - K3, K2?
I am not sure, but can point to one example that does include a USB chip in its design that takes care of the conversion from USB to serial. It is the WinKeyUSB interface from K1EL. It is quite possible the purchase of the chip might pay such fees indirectly. If it does the fees must be low as the cost of the kit is under $50. Richard Kent wrote: I thought I heard or read that including an USB controller into a piece of equipment requires one to pay a licensing fee to the organization that maintains the USB definition. If this is true that could be why many devices do not include USB compatibility. The cost may be too much for the number of devices to be sold. Anyone know for sure?? Rick Kent WD8AJG -Original Message- As many posts have mentioned, for various reasons, it would be nice to have a USB port into the K3. And also a K2 upgrade. Wonder how hard this would be for Elecraft to work up and provide? Seems like RS-232C Serial has been around for decades and decades - I think starting in just past Fairfield TTY Teletype days in 1959. I just went thru a failed USB-to-Serial cable converter attempt from my Laptop (USB) to a Kenwood TH-F6A HT. Kenwood service knew nothing about USB, and very little about their freebee HT software program that supports the TH-F6A handi-talkee. I gave up - after many many comm link failure difficulties into the TH-F6A, from a very very modern 2006 Compaq laptop, loaded with USB ports. Sent TH-F6A back to HRO. I hope these jury-rigs aren't required talking to a K3? Thanks, Fred, N3CSY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 50 and 75 ohm BNC Connectors
50 and 75 ohm BNC connectors fit each other fine differing only in the dielectric and width in the crimping area. The mating areas are the same or so the makes of the connectors say. As for the impedance bump, I would not worry about it one bit at video analog frequencies unless the cables were of tremendous length. If the video signal gets stopped something else is terrible wrong. John Richard Kent wrote: While not an RF application. 75 ohm connector BNC and others are important to the digital video production environment. It is my understanding that a 50 ohm barrel at the end of the correct length of coax will stop a digital video signal. I am in the process of installing a new digital switcher and I am watching connector, barrels, terminators impedances closely. Rick Kent WD8AJG K2 5296 -Original Message- I've received a question about compatibility of 50 ohm BNC male connectors with the 75 ohm female BNC connectors on Exetron's ADA 6 300MX video distribution amplifier. Amphenol makes the following statement about 50 and 75 ohm BNC connectors: Two distinct types of 75 O BNC's are available, and both mate with each other and with 50 O BNC's. Type 1 is designated 75 O BNC-T1 and provides constant 75 O performance with low VSWR DC 4 GHz. Type 2 is designated 75 O BNC-T2 and is usable with low reflection DC - 1 GHz. For applications above 1 GHz, Type 1 is recommended. Unlike BNC connectors, however, please remember that 50 and 75 ohm Type N connectors are not mechanically interchangeable and that physical damage results when a 50 ohm N male connector is inserted into a 75 ohm female N connector. I've added more details on using an ADA 6 300MX to distribute timing signals in today's update. http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/Updates.htm Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
