Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Myron Schaffer]

In keeping with my purchasing habits (I own the K1/2 and KX line) I'd rather 
see a compact, efficient, external, 1 W in /25W out (14dB) packer type amp 
offered to compliment my very versatile station. Just saying.

72
Myron WVØH
Printed on Recycled Data

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 1:00 AM, Rick WA6NHC  wrote:
> 
> Excellent replies so far.
> 
> What we start with is a ten watt radio.  We add the KPA3, which provides a 
> jump in output by 10 db.  We can add the KPA500 which provides another ~12 
> db; because you're now loafing the KPA3, keeping linearity 'manageable'.  
> (Yes, you can push the KPA500 to 600 watts on many bands, but the IMD gives 
> less return on that power investment.)
> 
> This has been very successful as a model for Elecraft.  I don't see any need 
> for it to change (but without restarting another thread, a KPA1500 with a 
> KAT1500 matching tuner *would* be awesome).
> 
> If the user wants to run at 25 watts, use a K3(s)/100.  It's a simple macro, 
> computer command or knob twist to reach 25 watts and the signal will be 
> sparkling clean.  But I also note that if 25 watts was a hard limit, my 
> KPA500 could not be driven to full output on all bands, a couple require more 
> input.
> 
> Let's not mess with success... This is one case that fewer options (not 
> having a 25 watt amp at max OR having it biased into class A, using more 
> energy) is a good thing.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Rick wa6nhc
> 
> 
>> On 2/22/2017 8:30 PM, Cameron Francey wrote:
>> Thumbs up here to this reply!
>> 
>> Also, if you have 25 watts max from the rig then you limit your ability to 
>> reduce to 100 watts or less where its more than enough.
>> 
>> Remembering that we use the least amount of power needed to maintain the 
>> contact.  Just because the gas peddle goes as far as the floor doesn't mean 
>> it needs to be pushed that far to get to the shops!
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Cameron -AF7DK/GM7LQR
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Elecraft  on behalf of Matthew Cook 
>> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:32 PM
>> To: Harry Yingst
>> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3
>> 
>> To make this idea work you need to make a 25Wpep amplifier that is kept in
>> it's linear region so that the IMD from this amplifier does not cause
>> problems in the output of the KPA500.
>> 
>> To make a class A-B 25W amplifier such as this with enough linearity will
>> result in you designing an amplifier capable of 100Wpep at full smoke.  The
>> non-linear nature of HF PA's is easily found on the net.  Having designed
>> PA's for HF manpacks a number of years ago we simply turned down our
>> 100Wpep design to 25Wpep and pocketed the performance increase at the
>> expense of cost.
>> 
>> The K3/100 at 25-35W has excellent linearity (highly likely by design, pat
>> designers on back for this one) which allows a more aggressive approach
>> within the KPA500 for grunt at the expense of "some" linearity.   You're
>> not increasing the cost of the KPA500 trying to eeek out every last bit of
>> linearity to get around the rubbish coming from the transceiver.
>> 
>> I'm keen to do some measurements in the near future of the SPE 1.3k-fa
>> amplifier being driven by a K3/10.  Having measured the IMD of my the
>> K3/100 at 10W (KPA3 disabled) recently I was a little surprised at the
>> result, it was not as clean as when driven at 30W with the KPA3 enabled.
>> I'd not be surprised to see some output degradation in the SPE from the
>> K3/10 c.f K3/100 driven at 20W with a -3dB inline attenuator.   This would
>> certainly explain some of the "wide" local signals that I've been seeing in
>> my SDR recently.
>> 
>> Engineering is always about compromise, and cascaded amplifiers are one of
>> the more trickier things to strike the right balance with.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Matthew
>> VK5ZM
>> 
>> On 23 February 2017 at 07:55, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
>> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 25 watts to drive it to
>>> full output (500 watts) It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA Option.
>>> Would it be possible to replace the existing 10 watt PA board with a 25
>>> watt PA board that would use a larger heatsink instead of the case.
>>> 
>>> If the stock Filters and Relays can handle the 25 watts it would seem that
>>> it would be a more inexpensive option for those who plan on going with the
>>> KPA500.
>>> 
>>> Just a thought...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Antenna Question

[Myron Schaffer]

Hello Rick,

What you consider efficient. What amount of loss are you willing to tolerate? 
If you give me the particulars on the installation I can run a model and stick 
it into SimSmith and get an answer for you if you like.

Myron WV0H
Printed on Recycled Data

From: rick jones via Elecraft
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Re: [Elecraft] Linear PS Recommendations

[Myron Schaffer]

Jim and Clay,

It used to be that waythe RS linear models could not tolerate external 
voltage present when unpowered, not anymore. Astron has incorporated 
back-voltage protection through incorporation of some diodes installed in key 
locations to prevent this.

You can verify if your supply has this modification by looking at the circuit 
board and see a 1N4001 type diode soldered across 2-pins (can't remember which 
ones off the top of my head) of the IC voltage regulator LM-723 chip and others 
hung in various places to protect the pass transistor as well. Usually soldered 
to the solder side of the circuit board so they are easy to spot. I can't 
remember is there were some small capacitors added as well.

Any newer (like newer than 1990) linear Astron will have these installed.

Myron WVØH
Printed on Recycled Data

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 12:10 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed,7/20/2016 10:52 PM, Bob Nielsen wrote:
>> you probably don't need much more than 20 amp capability. I have used an 
>> Astron RS-20 for the past 35 years but I would probably go for the RS-35 or 
>> RS-50 if I was getting another one.
> 
> That depends on what gear other than the radio that you want to run from it, 
> and whether it is charging a battery which runs the gear or the supply is 
> running the gear directly. It's easy for other 12V gear in a shack to add 
> several amps to the load, and the fancier the shack gets, the more that 
> increases. Clay said he wanted to run all his gear from it (but not the KPA, 
> I am assuming, because it's 120/240V powered). The gear I saw included 
> computer monitors, a K-Line, and some accessories. Perhaps there will someday 
> be antenna relays. And so on.
> 
> Also, the numbers in Astron's model names do NOT correspond to steady state 
> load capacity. It's important to study the data sheets. They are generally 
> well regarded for reliability, but every one I've opened had a bonding 
> problem which is important, but easy to fix.
> 
> Another important characteristic of Astron supplies is that their output 
> regulator circuit is likely to fry if connected to charge a battery but the 
> supply is not powered. Like in a power failure. Ask me how I know this. :) 
> Astron sells a module to place between the supply and the battery to solve 
> this problem.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 RF out voltage measurements...

[Myron Schaffer]

David,

I’m glad you got it resolved.

Myron WV0H
Printed on Recycled Data

From: David Davis
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:58 PM
To: thelastdb; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 RF out voltage measurements...

Myron,
Thank you very much for the information. It helped me check the RF output on my 
KX3. I was able to determine that the power output is exactly where it should 
be. That is why I really enjoy this mailing list. There are good people here 
that always offer great help.
In the end the issue appears to be caused by the ribbon cable that connects the 
two halves of the radio. I had opened the radio a few days before the last time 
I had used it. I must have knocked the cable loose. While I was checking the 
radio I checked the connections of the cable and it was loose. After I got the 
radio back together I used your suggestions and the measurements were perfect. 
I also Googled your website. It was like finding a gold mine. There is all 
kinds of good information on your site. 
Thank you,
David
KG6MTI

On 6/8/16 6:02 AM, thelastdb wrote:
David,

Set the radio for 5W in the TUNE menu first. Then press the tune button. I make 
all of my power measurements with my KX3 set to 5W and TUNE.

John and I use these DL1s extensively. Google KN5L DL1 and read up on the diode 
characterization and further reading about its use.

72
Myron WVØH 
Printed on Recycled Data 
 Original message 
From: David Davis  
Date: 6/7/2016 10:49 PM (GMT-07:00) 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 RF out voltage measurements... 

I might have an RF out issue with my KX3 but I am not sure how to test it.

I have an Elecraft DL1 and a DMM that I figure I can use to check the RF
voltages and verify the power out. However, I am not sure of the exact
process on how to do this. If I am keying the mic on SSB do I need to
speak into the mic to be able to measure the voltages or just key the
mic with silence? I would assume I need to be speaking into the mic.

The reason I ask this is because if I just key the mic with silence and
the radio set for 10W with a input power supply of 13.5V DC I measure
4.7mv DC at the TP1 on the DL1 unit.

If I speak into the mic I see voltages from 11 - 18V DC from the TP1 on
the DL1 unit. It seems to me that I need to be speaking into the mic. I
figure if I was checking the RF out in CW mode I would need to key the
keyer in some fashion.

I know this seems like an elementary level question but I would really
like to verify the RF power out.

Any information is greatly appreciated in advance.

Thanks!
David
KG6MTI

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Re: [Elecraft] DTMF Tones on the K3

[Myron Schaffer]

…unless you are digging weak signals out of the moon using it as an IF rig. 
Never such as thing as too much performance in an IF rig. I can see why EME-ers 
just want a little bit more. One of my Elmers, Al, W0PUF and I participated in 
the 1995 ARRL EME Contest with a Scientific Atlanta 10m dish spec’d for 4 GHz 
and a TS-700SP/HB amp with a pair of 4CX250Bs with an Ameco Rx conveter with no 
pre-amp…and got five QSOs from the W0BLK Club station out near Ellsworth AFB in 
Box Elder, SD. Worked the big guns only, like Al, WB5LUA and KB8RQ to name two. 
Ah, memories…I remember when we were working on the feed in the bird bath mode 
and a flock of migrating Sand Hill cranes were going south for the winter in 
formation directly overhead. I was in the focal point of that 30 foot dish and 
told Al on my HT to watch the flock as I made some noise. So Al got out the 
door in time to hear me issue some vocal shotgun blasts, “BOOM, BOOM, BOOM!” I 
shouted and be darned if they didn’t scatter…Awesome. They were way up there, 
like 10,000 feet maybe, who knows but I could hear them as if they were right 
there, trumpeting away. I miss Al.

Myron WV0H
Printed on Recycled Data

From: Kevin Stover
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 6:44 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DTMF Tones on the K3

I'm probably going to regret sending this and this is just my opinion.

It seems to me using the K3 as a V/UHF FM rig is akin to using a 
Thoroughbred race horse to pull a manure spreader.
Yeahit'll do it but there are better tools to use.
One thing the Japanese are better at is designing inexpensive, full 
featured V/UHF FM gear.

K3 and my Yaesu FT-8900 sitting next to each other and I want to 
blah,blah,blah on the local repeater. The Yaesu will get used 
99.995% of the time.
Sorry Elecraftyou aren't even in the neighborhood on this one.

On 6/1/2016 8:31 AM, R Stanley Sutton wrote:
> I add my vote to getting this done on the K3.
>
> Stan KD8KBX
>
>
>


-- 
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441



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Re: [Elecraft] Feedline Loss With Mismatched Loads

[Myron Schaffer]

Thank goodness for SimSmith...

Myron WVØH
Printed on Recycled Data

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:12 PM, Josh Fiden  wrote:
> 
> https://www.fars.k6ya.org/docs/Conjugate-Match-Myths.pdf
> 
> Analysis of errors in Reflections book starts on p.21
> 
> 73,
> Josh W6XU
> 
>> On 4/28/2016 8:57 PM, Wes wrote:
>> Google is most definitely not my friend, or anyone else's for that matter.
>> 
>> I was hopeful that you had an answer
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI resistant Monitor

[Myron Schaffer]

One thing I have noticed over the years is that the near-field noise is present 
with most any modern electronics. The switching frequency is between 200-300kHz 
and can be easily sniffed with a pocket AM radio (harmonics of that fundamental 
switching frequency are easily spotted with an AM radio). When I bring my 
CCrane Pocket Radio in the near field at the operating position, I can’t tune 
in the semi-local 600 KCOL out of Greely, CO. If I back up a few feet the noise 
level drops considerably and the station is audible again. The CC Pocket Radio 
has a fairly good front end with somewhat good selectivity but is still 
overloaded with IBOC noise.

I have battery chargers, an old Dell 1501 laptop, an external HD with switcher, 
the list goes on. Common mode noise and strong near-field noise is the bane of 
my ham radio existence in this RFI rich environment. 

Myron WV0H
Printed on Recycled Data

From: Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:14 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI resistant Monitor

On Sun,4/10/2016 10:44 PM, KC6CNN wrote:
> I just found that when the monitor is on it adds 2 bars of noise to my
> meter. It is also turning off when I operate on certain bands.

I had exactly that experience with a Samsung that W4UAT gave me because 
it did that in his shack too. It also makes RF noise. The good news is 
that not all Samsung monitors are RFI dogs. I have two recent model 
Samsungs in my house and four in the shack. They are designed to run on 
power supplies labeled 14VDC, and the supply they sell you is a 
switching power supply that makes RF noise. I throw those power supplies 
away, cut the attached power cable and attach red/black PowePoles, and 
run them from either the 12V battery system in my shack  or a small 12V 
lead-acid cell that I float-charge from a linear 12V wall wart.

I also use ferrite common mode chokes on both the video cable that runs 
to the computer and the power supply cable "just in case" some RF trash 
is conducted to those cables, which the cables could radiate.

All that, and a lot more, is discussed in this "in progress" article for 
the National Contest Journal.  k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] 80 Meter loop question

[Myron Schaffer]

Clay,

I can run an EZNEC model for you if you give me some more info about the loop. 
You said about 45 feet high and assume square. Did you want to feed it in the 
middle of one side or at the corner? I will model above average ground 
conductivity just to keep all my analyses consistent.

I can then put the results in SimSmith and spit out all the data you'll need, 
complete with any transmission line and length and complex impedance including 
efficiency across the whole HF frequency band.

Myron WVØH
Printed on Recycled Data

> On Apr 2, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any information or a link to information data on an 80
> meter loop's complex impedance and VSWR values across the HF bands?
> 
> R, X, VSWR from say 3.5-30MHz or better 1.0-54 MHz, measurements taken
> at the loop ends with a short jumper, not a long feed-line.  Preferably
> with loop elevated above 45 feet or so.
> 
> -- 
> __
> Clay Autery, KG5LKV
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Mobile operation "bible"

[Myron Schaffer]

All, 

The coax length doesn't matter because of the following reasons. Assuming the 
tuner is at the rig, there is a run of any coax to the antenna feed point, and 
you have a fairly high Q low band antenna that can't QSY much. 

With short HF mobile antennas that are high Q the reactance at the feed point 
when you QSY beyond 3:1 or so makes the system very lossy regardless of how low 
a loss or how short of coax is in there. 

The power accepted by the antenna under these conditions goes down the further 
you QSY due to the large reactance leaving the dissipated power to be burned up 
in the coax (and some in the imperfect antenna tuner at the rig) no matter how 
low loss it is or how short it is. You cannot increase the power accepted by 
the antenna unless you bring the feed point back closer to 50-ohms somehow 
through external loading of the antenna. (Even then there are other loss 
factors to consider such as ground loss and radiation resistance).

It's kind of like a "tug of war" between two Qs. The antenna Q and the tuner Q 
with the coax in the middle accepting all the power.

73/72,
Myron WVØH
Printed on Recycled Data

> On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:09 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> Bearing in mind that in a mobile installation, coax is too short to introduce 
> enough loss to matter, so it's merely a matter of making the rig's output 
> stage happy (and running at full output).
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[Elecraft] Test

[Myron Schaffer]

Myron WVØH
Printed on Recycled Data
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Re: [Elecraft] Unsoldering

[Myron Schaffer]

I think too that having a soldering iron with a large enough tip and therefore 
heat capacity to transfer heat to the joint as quickly as possible is 
advantageous. Many times I have grabbed the giant Weller gun to free the leads 
of the most stubborn components. Having a "Spudger" helps. (A Bell/AT tool 
with a metal hook).

Myron WVØH
Printed on Recycled Data

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have been in the manufacturing process for a LONG time and the rework 
> stations used in SMT parts is a state of art with custom equipment for the 
> process,  Tips that are the exact size of the parts to heat up each end are 
> necessary for all part sizes down to 02-01 package and all of the IC's with 
> special square tips etc. Special soldering irons and vacuum rework stations.  
>  Only simple rework should be attempted without the special tools required.  
> Sorry no easy answer.  
> 
> Mel, K6KBE
> 
> 
>  From: Mark Petrovic 
> To: elecr...@qth.net 
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 7:11 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Unsoldering
> 
> I'm assembling an Elecraft K1, and get the distinct feeling that
> unsoldering really is the last thing you want to be involved in.  I
> have solder wick that has embedded flux, and I have a solder sucker
> that seems huge compared to the size of the features I'm dealing with.
> The wick works ok at getting some of the solder out, but not all of
> it.  And a little bit of residual solder is still a major physical
> blocker to correcting a misplaced component or bad joint.
> 
> I feel like I'm a pretty good solder-er, but I have not had good luck
> with unsoldering.  Is it just me or does everyone have this problem?
> 
> Thanks.
> Mark
> AE6RT
> 
> -- 
> Mark
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[Elecraft] KX3 Feature Request

[Myron Schaffer]

I know this may be a nit but it would be neat if the VFO B knob would increment 
without rounding off the frequency. For instance, I participate in the foxhunts 
and find the fox. Then I use the DW SUB function and dial in the fox with the 
VFO A knob. If I use the VFO B knob it rounds off the decimal place and 
overshoots the target freq. If it were set to just increment of 1.0 I would 
land exactly where I want but it rounds off the freq and throws me out into 
left field.

Thanks.
Myron WVH
Printed on Recycled Data

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[Elecraft] Fwd: sending computer morse?

[Myron Schaffer]

Greg,

A good friend of mine K1BX helps build these interface units. Set the K1 to 
straight key mode and hook up this keyer to your computer. Can't help you with 
the software but there's got to be some freeware logging programs out there 
that can key this.

http://www.k1el.com/

73,

Myron

Not sent from my PC

Begin forwarded message:

 From: greg fripp frippg...@mac.com
 Date: September 26, 2012, 5:53:37 AM MDT
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: [Elecraft] sending computer morse?
 
 i want to send morse from my computer to my k1
 is there a way i can do that?
 i have a mac
 asistance welcome
 
 
 
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