Re: [Elecraft] Crosspost: K3S FSK shifts RX freq after Xmit

[briancom]

Initiate similar transmissions without Winwarbler and see if the same thing 
happens.  Bet it does not.
73 de Brian K3KO

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 13, 2017, at 8:19 PM, Chuck Chandler  wrote:
> 
> Cross-posted to both DXLabs and Elecraft lists, since I am not sure where
> the issue lies.
> 
> After some experimenting, I find that my K3S will shift the receive
> frequency after transmitting in RTTY (FSK D Data mode.)  Finding a busy
> band, I can see that if I tune in 5U5R exactly on 14.080.000, then send a
> RTTY transmission that after the RTTY transmission ends my rig is now still
> showing 14.080.000 on the screen but I am receiving a signal from somewhere
> around 14.078.78, near as I can make out from the P3.  There's another data
> mode being used down there and the fellow has a nice, strong signal that
> comes and goes so I can tell when the signal starts and stops. This happens
> when I send from the keyboard as well as from a macro.
> 
> I first noticed this in live transmissions but have spent the last half
> hour in TX Test mode, and the same thing happens even with no output.
> 
> As soon as I tap XFIL the filter setting doesn't change but there the 5U5R
> is again.
> 
> Alternatively, if I rotate the Shift knob either direction, the 5U5R is
> back.  The FC is set to 2.21 kHz.
> 
> Alternatively, if I rotate the width control in either direction, it goes
> back to receiving the 5U5R.
> 
> This only happens when I am using the 400 Hz 8-pole filter or the APF
> (which also uses the 400.)  When I use the 2.7 5-pole this doesn't happen.
> 
> This feels like something is applying an offset of 1220 Hz while I transmit
> and not letting it go.  But I'm at a loss to figure it out.  My digi app is
> WinWarbler, and I have AFC unchecked.  It shows a steady freq for xmit and
> rcv at 14.080.000 during all this.
> 
> 1220 is just about half of 2210, so there's that.  Also, the K3S TX Test
> mode doesn't key the finals, so there's no RF getting into it.
> 
> This feels like something is set wrong, but blimey if I can figure it out.
> 
> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
> -- 
> 
> 
> ===
> Chuck Chandler
> chandler...@gmail.com
> ===
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 upgrade to K3S question

[briancom]

Right on.  The new board preamp only works 12 through 6 M.  More gain would be 
helpful on 17 and 15 M.  I hope Elecraft can open up access to  the new preamp 
on those bands-even if it is 6 dB.
My experience (older K3) with an external preamp and decent antennas showed 
that some extra gain on 17 and 15 M helped.  15M is an especially quiet band 
and extra gain was welcome.  Also it helped overcome the 3 dB loss in signal 
when the subrx was sharing the main ant.
Now that I have relocated to another QTH and have much poorer antennas and 
lower sunspot numbers, the extra gain on 15 and 17 would be welcome. Most guys 
are hearing me better than I am hearing them.  More gain on those bands might 
open up new layers of guys to work.
Of course there is the question guys always ask : Why does it do anything 
placed at the RX front end.
The fact of the matter seems to be that even if you just think it helps, it is 
a  benefit.  Measurements made with a signal generator show the new preamp does 
improve the MDS under the condx of no atmospheric noise present.  Some of this 
might indeed show up for quiet bands.
73 de Brian
.

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 13, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Dauer, Edward  wrote:
> 
> A question about the KXV3B –
> 
> I have done the synth upgrades but none of the others, yet.  I am considering 
> doing the KXV3B and the KIO3B.  
> 
> At present I have a PR6-10 hanging off the back of the K3.  I have found it 
> very helpful on 10 meters and on 15 and maybe a bit on 20.  I have not done 
> any laboratory-grade measurements, but a simple on-off on 15 is convincing 
> that the preamp is of use there, and 20 is maybe or maybe not.  
> 
> The KXV3B Manual is clear that band selection should be done on 12, 10, and 
> 6.  I would be disinclined to doing the upgrade if I lost the preamp 
> advantage I now have on 15.  Does anyone know if the preamp in the KXV3B is 
> identical to the outboard PR6-10 and, if so, whether the K3 with an new KXV3B 
> will accept the preamp ON designation for bands other than 12-10-6?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ted, KN1CBR
> 
>--
> 
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 06:30:10 -0700
>From: Ed Muns 
>To: fra...@pwpconsult.com
>Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 upgrade to K3S question
>Message-ID: 
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
>The KIO3B has both RS232 and USB.
> 
>All 3 upgrades are easy to do together.? Now takes me less than 30 minutes 
> total for 2 KSYN3As, KXV3A and KIO3B.
> 
>73,
>Ed W0YK
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 upgrade to K3S question

[briancom]

and almost a kilobuck

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Ed Muns  wrote:
> 
> The KIO3B has both RS232 and USB.
> 
> All 3 upgrades are easy to do together.  Now takes me less than 30 minutes 
> total for 2 KSYN3As, KXV3A and KIO3B.
> 
> 73,
> Ed W0YK
>> On Mar 11, 2017 4:41 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
>> 
>> There are two upgrade issues to consider: 
>> 
>> (1) The recommended modifications to bring your K3 up to the 
>> latest engineering level. Check 
>>  for what you may 
>> need and how to install it. 
>> 
>> (2) The upgrades to install the new K3S upgrade boards. The big 
>> win here is the KSYN3A board. It will improve your receive and 
>> fast CW break in. The KXV3B board adds a second preamp for 12, 
>> 10, and 6 meters. The KIO3B 3-board set installs an internal 
>> "sound card" in the K3 for computer interface of digital modes. 
>> It also replaces the RS-232 connection with a USB connection. 
>> 
>> It is quite easy to install all three upgrade in a K3. Doing 
>> them one at a time will be less confusing, but if you have a 
>> good idea of how things in the K3 are connected together it is 
>> possible to install them all at once. I, and my K3 survived the experience. 
>> 
>> 73 Bill AE6JV 
>> 
>>> On 3/11/17 at 2:57 PM, g...@gmx.net wrote: 
>>> 
>>> I've purchased a used K3 S/N in the 3ks, and plan to apply some of the K3S 
>>> upgrade options. 
>>> Any experiences, hints or do's and don'ts to tell for me? 
>>> I'm using the K3 mainly for HF contesting, VHF with an external transverter 
>>> and some DX chasing. 
>>> tu es 73 
>>> Gernot, DF5RF
>> 
>> --- 
>> Bill Frantz| "The only thing we have to   | Periwinkle 
>> (408)356-8506  | fear is fear itself." - FDR  | 16345 
>> Englewood Ave 
>> www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933  | Los Gatos, 
>> CA 95032 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[briancom]

Have you done the RF exposure calcs?  I have the same issues.  It turns out 
that on all HF bands, it is difficult to exceed the limits at 100 watts.  Just 
5 to 10 ft from the antenna provides enough distance.
73 de Brian K3KO


Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 10:06 PM, Aaron Lee  wrote:
> 
> I'm dealing with indoor and hidden antennas for the next few years, 25
> watts makes it much easier to stay within uncontrolled exposure limits
> than 100 watts. 25 watts is much more appropriate for my confined urban
> environment. It's also enough to have fun with the CW and digital modes
> I enjoy. I get nervous pushing my KX3 past 5 watts some of the 100% duty
> cycle digital modes. However, I would feel much more comfortable with a
> desktop rig that could push 25 watts all day long.*
> 
> Aaron Lee
> AC9OH
> 
> * Right now I'm debating between a 100 watt rig and trying to keep my
> fingers off of the power knob or saving my money in hopes that something
> better is on the market after I move.
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017, at 03:25 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
>> 
>> Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 25 watts to drive it to
>> full output (500 watts) It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA Option. 
>> Would it be possible to replace the existing 10 watt PA board with a 25
>> watt PA board that would use a larger heatsink instead of the case.
>> 
>> If the stock Filters and Relays can handle the 25 watts it would seem
>> that it would be a more inexpensive option for those who plan on going
>> with the KPA500.
>> 
>> Just a thought...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[briancom]

Frank,
Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target.
The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
signal is dropped.  It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to zero. 
 One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen.  To avoid 
clicks one wants a shaped tail.  I dont see how the K3 can immediately go to 
RX.  
How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want?  Is the normal 5 ms tail 
fast enough?

Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous problem 
goes away. 

The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
ms is an issue that has existed from day one.  People started complaining about 
it on day 2.  Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From what I am 
able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult to fix.  
Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to produce 
good CW at all values of TXDELAY.  If the fix were a simple one, it would have 
been fixed years ago.
73 de Brian K3KO

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
> 
> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly 
> related to an excellent Elecraft product. 
> 
> 
> 
> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 
> 
> 
> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 
> 
> 
> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
> are unacceptable. 
> 
> 
> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
> logic. 
> 
> 
> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
> internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
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Re: [Elecraft] Thanks to Elecraft support

[briancom]

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 11, 2017, at 6:17 PM, Carl Yaffey1  wrote:
> 
> I posted a while back about not being able to drive my KPA500 to full power 
> on 6M. Trying to drive it beyond 200 watts resulted in a HI SWR fault. I 
> initially  blamed it on the antenna, cables, connectors, etc. etc. It worked 
> fine on a dummy load.
> But changing antennas and cables and so on resulted in the same problem. 
> Next, I hooked up my ICOM 706MKIIG. No problem!
> Aha! something’s wrong with the K3S. But it worked on the dummy load. 
> Scratched my head a while and finally decided the K3S was putting out a 
> spurious signal of some kind. No problem with a dummy load because it didn’t 
> care what frequencies it was seeing.
> 
> There was an additional problem: No transmit with mode set to USB or LSB. 
> Change mode to CW, tap the key, switch back to USB, output fine.
> 
> So I sent the K3S off to Elecraft. Yep! Spurious signals being generated. 
> They replaced Q7 and 8 on the KPA3A, set bias, and did tx again calibration. 
> They also replaced the KLPA3A board.
> 
> Just got it back today and all is well. 
> 
> Great service!
> 
> 73  (NOT 73s),
> K8NU
> 
> 
> Carl Yaffey  K8NU
> Recording studio.
> cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
> 614 268 6353, Columbus OH
> http://www.carl-yaffey.com
> http://www.grassahol.com
> http://www.bluesswing.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Bird Wattmeter "meter failures"

[briancom]

Good point Don.  Would like to point out that some commercial scopes these days 
come with probes that are inadequate for the bandwidth of the scope they are 
connected to.
The scopes might be rated foe 100 MHz but with the supplied probes the system 
is lucky to make 50 MHz.  Tektronix was an exception.  Their bandwidth specs 
were met with factory probes.   Unfortunately the only way to know is to test 
the entire systems response with a calibrated generator.   One bargain sampling 
scope I bought was not such a bargain after buying several sets of probes to 
find ones meeting bandwidth specs.  Even then the best match probe had to have 
its ground lead shortened a bit to flatten the response.  

Developing a trust in ones test equipment takes effort and time.
73 de Brian K3KO
Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 21, 2015, at 10:58 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Harlan,
> 
> That is correct - improper test leads are often a 'culprit'.
>  For instance trying to measure an HF signal with a 'scope.  The 'scope may b 
> rated for 200 MHz, but if you try to us a "hunk of coax" for a probe, the 
> frequency rating may diminish to 2 MHz (OK, that is just an example).  You 
> need to consider the whole measurement system.  A scope's frequency rating 
> must also be coupled with the frequency rating of the probe.  The use of 10X 
> probes is necessary to keep capacitance loading of the circuit under test to 
> a minimum.  And those probes have a frequency rating too.  Take the entire 
> setup of the test equipment into consideration when doing measurements.
> Make certain that every part of the test equipment being used is suitable for 
> the frequency involved.  A simple coax probe may be OK for AF frequencies, 
> but it is not adequate when the frequency is increased.
> 
> A 'scope can show proper RF voltage amplitude, but the frequency rating of 
> the probe and the 'scope should be taken into consideration.  For instance, a 
> 35 MHz scope will only show a signal that is 3 dB down at 35 MHz.   I would 
> suggest that valid RF voltage measurements be made at 1/10 of the 'scope's 
> frequency rating (and that goes for the probe too).
> 
> Again I state, trust no measurement equipment until its accuracy has been 
> verified.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> 
>> On 11/21/2015 10:09 PM, hsherriff wrote:
>> I'm the supervisor of a metrology lab and that is one of the first things I 
>> ensure a new technician understands. And many times it isn't the test 
>> equipment that is at fault, nor the unit under test, but the methodology of 
>> using that test equipment.  Not using the equipment "guard" correctly,  
>> induced voltages, improper test leads for the job and many many more.
> 
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