Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] Compare the 7300 to a K3

[Morgan Bailey]

I have sat down at a 7300 and it is true that the front end has little
filtering. Additionally, If you have a loud station on CW with in 500hz of
the station you are trying to work, who is weak, the front in will be
de-sensed and the AGC will pump and your QSO will be over. Like most SDR
radios that do not have a Roofing filter ahead of the DSP processing,
selectivity, at best, is questionable. I tuned in to CWOPS CWT contest on
Wednesday evening session and realized that the 7300 is not a CW contest
grade radio. It is too menu deep, big finger unfriendly, for the most part
comparing it to the P3 the band scope on marginal to worthless, and the
less than 500 hertz selectivity for CW is lacking. These observations are
all based on having both the K3S and P3. Although, one thing that the 7300
shines is in its easy computer interfacing to run digital modes. This radio
is a great digital mode radio. If for no other reason, I would buy the 7300
and dedicate it to this mode. But, I don't do digital modes. When packet
radio first came out on HF, it just thought it was the beacon for the
Nation Tune Up Frequency. LOL

My only hope is that the Icom 7610 will address the above issues. When ever
it comes out, maybe Dayton time, that is a radio I want to play with. But
again, most likely it will be in the same dollar level as a K3S P3
combination. For the guy that is starting out in radio, the 7300 offers a
lot of value but learning the controls that are menu hidden rather than
easily adjustable knobs, may not be the best for a new ham to learn on.

My other radios are an Icom 746, Yeasu 450d, yeasu 718, Elecraft K1 4 band
with tuner and of course the K3S with P3 and THP 1.5 running through the
Kat500. Each of these radios has advantages. I am currently putting the
450d into my truck for mobile operation on SSB and to some extent, limited
CW work while mobile.

In the end, each radio has its limitations, but the major limitation is
always money. Buy the best you can afford, put up an efficient antenna and
just have fun. End of Story. The man who dies with the most toys may well
win, but, all the rest of us can still have tons of fun along the way.

Vy 73,
Morgan Bailey NJ8M

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Rick WA6NHC  wrote:

> I use the K3 (entire K line) at home most of the time (the BEST radio I've
> ever used and the integration is beyond compare).  I'm very used to the
> controls having moved from the Kenwood TS-940; they're VERY similar and it
> was a shallow learning curve.  I wanted a portable, RV and FD radio and
> considered another K3 by moving my K3 parts into a K3S.  I didn't want a
> huge budget since that radio wouldn't be used enough to justify a large
> expense.
>
> I went with the IC-7300 (now less expensive).  It's small, has many of the
> features I use on the K3 (bandscope being the main one) and with the AH-4
> tuner means I can be on the air with almost any wire, quickly.  That
> combination was less than a K3 and added the 'scope.  It's also light (a
> huge consideration for RV life). It also caused me to learn about battery
> technology so I now power it with LiFePo4 batteries instead of using the RV
> house battery (which also means I don't have to hunker indoors).
>
> In use, it's sensitive, easy to use but it's 'different' from the K3 (I
> likely need to spend more hours on the Icom but haven't; it's not intuitive
> to me).   The Icom has some of the controls (like keyer speed) hidden in
> touch menus instead of on the front panel (where they belong, like the
> Elecraft folks figured out). It's a different mindset since I'm not a long
> time Icom user.  The touch screen is nice; the scope works fine once set,
> but you also can't save the settings per band or mode; it's rather limited
> compared to the P3 (touch and QSY is nice, but never ON the exact freq you
> want).  If you have fat fingers, you'll be frustrated with the touch screen.
>
> The '7300 lacks a couple (what I would consider basic) connections.  There
> is only ONE antenna port (anyone have a 160-6M antenna?), there is no video
> output of the scope (so I don't have to squint), in fact there aren't any
> real options beyond microphone and mounting bracket.  I've had to learn
> about Icom interfacing so I could run FSK (AFSK was easy via USB).  The
> '7300 is designed to be an entry level BASIC radio.  And that is exactly
> what I wanted for the RV and holiday style operations.  The AH-4 allows me
> to use a grossly non-resonant wire as an antenna; much like the Elecraft KX
> radios (which I didn't choose because I'd have to buy an amp too and this
> was a budget purchase, the AH-4 had a sizable rebate).
>
> On FD  the '7300 was grossly overloaded  by others on the air at the
> site.  If I was on 15M and the 20M or 40M station transmitted, the 7300
> front end crumpled with MAJOR desense, ditto when I was on 80M.  My
> inverted Vee (resonant, fed with a twisted pair to the AH-4) was 30' from
> the 20M beam 

Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] Compare the 7300 to a K3

[Rick WA6NHC]

I use the K3 (entire K line) at home most of the time (the BEST radio 
I've ever used and the integration is beyond compare).  I'm very used to 
the controls having moved from the Kenwood TS-940; they're VERY similar 
and it was a shallow learning curve.  I wanted a portable, RV and FD 
radio and considered another K3 by moving my K3 parts into a K3S.  I 
didn't want a huge budget since that radio wouldn't be used enough to 
justify a large expense.


I went with the IC-7300 (now less expensive).  It's small, has many of 
the features I use on the K3 (bandscope being the main one) and with the 
AH-4 tuner means I can be on the air with almost any wire, quickly.  
That combination was less than a K3 and added the 'scope.  It's also 
light (a huge consideration for RV life). It also caused me to learn 
about battery technology so I now power it with LiFePo4 batteries 
instead of using the RV house battery (which also means I don't have to 
hunker indoors).


In use, it's sensitive, easy to use but it's 'different' from the K3 (I 
likely need to spend more hours on the Icom but haven't; it's not 
intuitive to me).   The Icom has some of the controls (like keyer speed) 
hidden in touch menus instead of on the front panel (where they belong, 
like the Elecraft folks figured out). It's a different mindset since I'm 
not a long time Icom user.  The touch screen is nice; the scope works 
fine once set, but you also can't save the settings per band or mode; 
it's rather limited compared to the P3 (touch and QSY is nice, but never 
ON the exact freq you want).  If you have fat fingers, you'll be 
frustrated with the touch screen.


The '7300 lacks a couple (what I would consider basic) connections.  
There is only ONE antenna port (anyone have a 160-6M antenna?), there is 
no video output of the scope (so I don't have to squint), in fact there 
aren't any real options beyond microphone and mounting bracket.  I've 
had to learn about Icom interfacing so I could run FSK (AFSK was easy 
via USB).  The '7300 is designed to be an entry level BASIC radio.  And 
that is exactly what I wanted for the RV and holiday style operations.  
The AH-4 allows me to use a grossly non-resonant wire as an antenna; 
much like the Elecraft KX radios (which I didn't choose because I'd have 
to buy an amp too and this was a budget purchase, the AH-4 had a sizable 
rebate).


On FD  the '7300 was grossly overloaded  by others on the air at the 
site.  If I was on 15M and the 20M or 40M station transmitted, the 7300 
front end crumpled with MAJOR desense, ditto when I was on 80M.  My 
inverted Vee (resonant, fed with a twisted pair to the AH-4) was 30' 
from the 20M beam and 120' from the 40M double EDZ (yes I said that 
correctly, it's HUGE, Quad Extended Zepp).  For FD, either a LOT more 
separation or use of another radio is suggested.  I was not able to 
adjust the '7300 enough to ignore the other 100 watt stations without 
making the '7300 deaf.  This was a *planned* worst case scenario (no 
band traps, we've never needed them) specifically for the '7300 and 
similar to previous years of using a 7600, which survived the test.  
This year I will separate my station from the others by a couple hundred 
feet and I expect no issues, except fewer trees and a longer walk to supper.


For use without nearby transmitters, it's been great.  I've used it here 
in the shack to get used to it (Icom is NOT Kenwood or Elecraft, it's 
'different').  For the average home environment, the RV or at 'the 
cabin', it's great.  No issues, sensitive and is all you would expect 
from a current model radio and some nice features (do NOT get the Icom 
software, for $100 it's horrid).


Icom has a history of great radios, crappy microphones for mediocre 
audio.  The stock mic works fine, other Icom mikes I tried, not so 
well.  I use the stock mic and a Heil headset and that works as well.  
If you go Icom, expect you'll have to fuss with mics to get the right 
one (sometimes even the stock mic). Kenwood is famous for their audio 
(Elecraft too, but you opted out of them).


In my research for the '7300 purchase, I found that the output spiking 
issue of the TS-590 line has AT LAST been tamed, BUT each radio must be 
returned for a 'factory' mod.  So if you buy used and EVER plan on using 
an amp, that is something to check.  (That spike was a HUGE reason to 
not get the '590 series when I chose Elecraft, I knew I'd add an amp).


On the other hand, my mobile HF is a Kenwood TS-480HX.  It's not deaf 
but it's also not expected to pick up flea farts in a tornado on the 
road, it's a good solid basic radio with a little more output to 
compensate for the typical lousy mobile antenna (a Tarheel in my case, 
good antenna but mobile is tough).  If I'm not driving and operating, it 
feels like it's on a par with the TS-940 but that empirical not lab 
testing.  Advantage: You can put the control head next to your easy 
chair and hide the radio etc some distance away.