Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-06 Thread Mark E. Musick 
Scott, Bob and Everyone.
Also, note the article that Bob quotes is 4 years old. Pre K3S and pre KSYN3A 
upgrade of for K3s. It does not apply to a K3S or a K3 that has been upgraded 
with a KSYN3A.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of K9MA
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Bob Wilson, N6TV ; Elecraft Reflector 

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

Thanks, Bob.

Yes, closing PTT allows sending at high speed.  I rarely send at over 35 wpm, 
but I guess I can just turn on the PTT when I do.  (I have an actual switch for 
that purpose. Remember those?) Firmware is up to date.

It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though, whatever its 
other merits.  I've never found the phase noise of the original to be an issue, 
so it's hard to justify the expense.

73,

Scott K9MA


On 9/6/2017 01:51, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> The 37 WPM jitter issue is actually related to VOX timing (with either 
> QSK or semi-breakin).  If you hold the PTT line closed while 
> transmitting, via a foot switch, software-controlled  PTT, or an 
> external keyer like a WinKey with a PTT output, you can send as fast 
> as you like, no CW jitter, but you give up QSK and semi-breakin.  This 
> works whether you have VOX ON or OFF.
>
> For more details, see this post from about 4 years ago:
>
> http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html
>
> The new KSYN3A synthesizer is highly recommended though, especially 
> for QRQ CW.
>
> Also, what firmware version are you running?
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
>
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:19 PM, K9MA  <mailto:k...@sdellington.us>> wrote:
>
> I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3
> (non-S), which I have.  I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm
> the cw gets all messed up.  This seems to occur whether in QSK
> (Break-in) or PTT mode.  The problem seems to go away, at least up
> to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.
>
> A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery.  In the normal
> QSK mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm.  In QRQ
> mode, that goes all the way up to 18 wpm.
>
> Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems?
> If not, is there another solution?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> -- 
> Scott  K9MA
>
> k...@sdellington.us <mailto:k...@sdellington.us>
>
> __
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>

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-06 Thread Dale Boresz 
Scott,

The new KSYN3A most definitely DOES resolve the old jitter issue. I updated
my both of my synths as soon as the new ones were available, and even
without QRQ engaged, the cw timing is jitter free. If the new KSYN3A did
nothing else, I'd have still bought them just for the great cw performance.

73,

Dale - WA8SRA


On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:25 AM, K9MA  wrote:

> ...
>


> It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though, whatever
> its other merits.  I've never found the phase noise of the original to be
> an issue, so it's hard to justify the expense.
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-06 Thread Mark E. Musick 
Yes, Scott the KSYN3A does solve some of the CW keying issues.

>From the Elecraft website Spare Parts and Mods page:

FASTER CW BREAK-IN AND MORE ACCURATE CW ELEMENT TIMING is listed as one of the 
advantages of upgrading to the new SYN.

>From the QST review:
The new synthesizer has its own microcontroller to offload the main 
microcontroller during transmit-receive switching, resulting in less jitter in 
transmit-receive timing, making high-speed CW cleaner.

Also, see KSYN3A FAQ on the Elecraft website order page. 

7. How does the new synth affect CW operation?   a. The KSYN3A switches faster 
than the KSYN3, which allows us to more precisely control CW timing. This means 
less "jitter" (timing variation) at high CW speeds. Many CW operators who had 
been using "QRQ" mode (CONFIG:CW QRQ=ON) for CW in the 35-60 WPM range will now 
be able to use normal CW mode (CW QRQ=OFF), meaning they no longer give up RIT 
and SPLIT when using fast CW. Receive recover times also improve. Note that we 
recently introduced a variation on CW break-in signal processing called   "NEW 
QSK" (selected by tapping '3' in the CW WGHT menu entry). This eliminates audio 
T/R artifacts heard with the original algorithm ("OLD QSK"), at the expense of 
some slowing of receive recovery (by purging the DSP's "pipeline"). Installing 
a KSYN3A speeds up receive recovery for both the OLD and NEW QSK settings.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of K9MA
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Bob Wilson, N6TV ; Elecraft Reflector 

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

Thanks, Bob.

Yes, closing PTT allows sending at high speed.  I rarely send at over 35 wpm, 
but I guess I can just turn on the PTT when I do.  (I have an actual switch for 
that purpose. Remember those?) Firmware is up to date.

It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though, whatever its 
other merits.  I've never found the phase noise of the original to be an issue, 
so it's hard to justify the expense.

73,

Scott K9MA


On 9/6/2017 01:51, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> The 37 WPM jitter issue is actually related to VOX timing (with either 
> QSK or semi-breakin).  If you hold the PTT line closed while 
> transmitting, via a foot switch, software-controlled  PTT, or an 
> external keyer like a WinKey with a PTT output, you can send as fast 
> as you like, no CW jitter, but you give up QSK and semi-breakin.  This 
> works whether you have VOX ON or OFF.
>
> For more details, see this post from about 4 years ago:
>
> http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html
>
> The new KSYN3A synthesizer is highly recommended though, especially 
> for QRQ CW.
>
> Also, what firmware version are you running?
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
>
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:19 PM, K9MA  <mailto:k...@sdellington.us>> wrote:
>
> I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3
> (non-S), which I have.  I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm
> the cw gets all messed up.  This seems to occur whether in QSK
> (Break-in) or PTT mode.  The problem seems to go away, at least up
> to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.
>
> A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery.  In the normal
> QSK mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm.  In QRQ
> mode, that goes all the way up to 18 wpm.
>
> Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems?
> If not, is there another solution?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> -- 
> Scott  K9MA
>
> k...@sdellington.us <mailto:k...@sdellington.us>
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to n...@arrl.net <mailto:n...@arrl.net>
>
>

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-06 Thread K9MA 

Thanks, Bob.

Yes, closing PTT allows sending at high speed.  I rarely send at over 35 
wpm, but I guess I can just turn on the PTT when I do.  (I have an 
actual switch for that purpose. Remember those?) Firmware is up to date.


It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though, 
whatever its other merits.  I've never found the phase noise of the 
original to be an issue, so it's hard to justify the expense.


73,

Scott K9MA


On 9/6/2017 01:51, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
The 37 WPM jitter issue is actually related to VOX timing (with either 
QSK or semi-breakin).  If you hold the PTT line closed while 
transmitting, via a foot switch, software-controlled  PTT, or an 
external keyer like a WinKey with a PTT output, you can send as fast 
as you like, no CW jitter, but you give up QSK and semi-breakin.  This 
works whether you have VOX ON or OFF.


For more details, see this post from about 4 years ago:

http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html

The new KSYN3A synthesizer is highly recommended though, especially 
for QRQ CW.


Also, what firmware version are you running?

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:19 PM, K9MA > wrote:


I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3
(non-S), which I have.  I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm
the cw gets all messed up.  This seems to occur whether in QSK
(Break-in) or PTT mode.  The problem seems to go away, at least up
to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.

A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery.  In the normal
QSK mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm.  In QRQ
mode, that goes all the way up to 18 wpm.

Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems?
If not, is there another solution?

73,

Scott K9MA

-- 
Scott  K9MA


k...@sdellington.us 

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--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-05 Thread Bob Wilson, N6TV 
The 37 WPM jitter issue is actually related to VOX timing (with either QSK
or semi-breakin).  If you hold the PTT line closed while transmitting, via
a foot switch, software-controlled  PTT, or an external keyer like a WinKey
with a PTT output, you can send as fast as you like, no CW jitter, but you
give up QSK and semi-breakin.  This works whether you have VOX ON or OFF.

For more details, see this post from about 4 years ago:

http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html

The new KSYN3A synthesizer is highly recommended though, especially for QRQ
CW.

Also, what firmware version are you running?

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:19 PM, K9MA  wrote:

> I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3 (non-S), which
> I have.  I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm the cw gets all messed
> up.  This seems to occur whether in QSK (Break-in) or PTT mode.  The
> problem seems to go away, at least up to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.
>
> A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery.  In the normal QSK
> mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm.  In QRQ mode, that goes
> all the way up to 18 wpm.
>
> Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems? If not,
> is there another solution?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> --
> Scott  K9MA
>
> k...@sdellington.us
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to n...@arrl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-05 Thread K9ZTV 
Even with the new synthesizers, the DSP noise reduction circuitry introduces 
latency in the QSK T/R switching, so be sure it is off for true high speed QSK.

Kent  K9ZTV

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:29 PM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP  
> wrote:
> 
> The new synthesizer solves the 37 wpm problem. It also seems to speed up the 
> QSK somewhat. I just tried it on my updated K3 and I seem to be able to hear 
> between dits at 25 to maybe 27 wpm.
> 
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-05 Thread Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
The new synthesizer solves the 37 wpm problem. It also seems to speed up 
the QSK somewhat. I just tried it on my updated K3 and I seem to be able 
to hear between dits at 25 to maybe 27 wpm.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 6 Sep 2017 06:19, K9MA wrote:
I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3 (non-S), 
which I have.  I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm the cw gets 
all messed up.  This seems to occur whether in QSK (Break-in) or PTT 
mode.  The problem seems to go away, at least up to 50 wpm, in the QRQ 
mode.


A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery.  In the normal QSK 
mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm.  In QRQ mode, that 
goes all the way up to 18 wpm.


Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems? If not, 
is there another solution?


73,

Scott K9MA


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[Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

2017-09-05 Thread K9MA 
I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3 (non-S), 
which I have.  I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm the cw gets 
all messed up.  This seems to occur whether in QSK (Break-in) or PTT 
mode.  The problem seems to go away, at least up to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.


A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery.  In the normal QSK 
mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm.  In QRQ mode, that 
goes all the way up to 18 wpm.


Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems? If not, 
is there another solution?


73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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