Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
Thank you all for the replies. I would just like to clear up a few things: I'm going to call it DISTORTION and not ringing as ringing is more related to crystal filters as G4ILO pointed out and it is not filter ringing which I have recognized in some previous rigs I've owned. I just didn't know how to call it. The distortion happens irrespective of filter used, even with the 2.7KHz and the WIDTH opened right up it is still there. The effects "AFX" makes no difference. I am using stereo headphones. I don't have a waterfall program... can someone suggest on please. I've noticed when listening to my desired CW signal at a beat frequency of 650Hz the signal is clear & only occasionally distorts but when tuning the same signal and moving up in frequency at about twice 650Hz (1300Hz) it starts to distort. On SSB it is more pronounced as you tune. I hope there will be a fix for this. Does anyone else suffer from this? I have read the PSK thread but I'm more interested in CW users in particular. Berni G0IDA Robert Carroll wrote: I'm not disagreeing with Julian at all but wanted to toss out some related ideas. The noise you hear does become colored as you crank down a properly designed DSP filter--and centered on the filter freq. On the other hand some poorly designed filters are excited by energy near the center freq and do ring. I have a rice box reviewed in a recent QST, and the review pointed out the filter is so bad at 100Hz and below it becomes unusable. A little noise crackle and ringing like a bell begins and does not drop much for a few seconds--tough on high speed cw. Another phenomenon to consider is aliasing. This has popped up in a few versions of Orion software causing ghost signals to appear in the subreceiver. I was recently amused to find an audio discussion of this in which someone commented about a ghost band playing. Here's a link http://www.dsprelated.com/showmessage/24519/1.php . I would really be surprised if the K3 had any of these problems. So far I haven't bought one but I am creeping up to it. Julian, I really like your VOAProp package. 73 Bob W2WG -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:17 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of the term 'ringing' but it seems to me that on any radio when you use a narrow filter you hear a sort of ringing noise that has a pitch of the frequency the filter is centered on. It's an inevitable result of the fact that you are not hearing an even distribution of noise across the whole audio spectrum, but a narrow segment of noise whose amplitude distribution follows the shape of the filter. In other words, I think it's normal. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
I'm not disagreeing with Julian at all but wanted to toss out some related ideas. The noise you hear does become colored as you crank down a properly designed DSP filter--and centered on the filter freq. On the other hand some poorly designed filters are excited by energy near the center freq and do ring. I have a rice box reviewed in a recent QST, and the review pointed out the filter is so bad at 100Hz and below it becomes unusable. A little noise crackle and ringing like a bell begins and does not drop much for a few seconds--tough on high speed cw. Another phenomenon to consider is aliasing. This has popped up in a few versions of Orion software causing ghost signals to appear in the subreceiver. I was recently amused to find an audio discussion of this in which someone commented about a ghost band playing. Here's a link http://www.dsprelated.com/showmessage/24519/1.php . I would really be surprised if the K3 had any of these problems. So far I haven't bought one but I am creeping up to it. Julian, I really like your VOAProp package. 73 Bob W2WG -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:17 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of the term 'ringing' but it seems to me that on any radio when you use a narrow filter you hear a sort of ringing noise that has a pitch of the frequency the filter is centered on. It's an inevitable result of the fact that you are not hearing an even distribution of noise across the whole audio spectrum, but a narrow segment of noise whose amplitude distribution follows the shape of the filter. In other words, I think it's normal. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3---DSP-ringing-on-CW---SSB-tp793827p794022.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10590e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of the term 'ringing' but it seems to me that on any radio when you use a narrow filter you hear a sort of ringing noise that has a pitch of the frequency the filter is centered on. It's an inevitable result of the fact that you are not hearing an even distribution of noise across the whole audio spectrum, but a narrow segment of noise whose amplitude distribution follows the shape of the filter. In other words, I think it's normal. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3---DSP-ringing-on-CW---SSB-tp793827p794022.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
If you have the audio effects turned on and only one speaker you could have comb filtering and this might sound like ringing 73 Brendan On Sat, 2008-08-30 at 13:34 +0100, Berni G0IDA wrote: > Surely that means every K3 has this but there seems to be no complaints > about it on CW or SSB? > I'm listening now to the YO contest and playing with settings and it is > quite marked ringing :-( > > Is there a way of reducing this? > > Cheers, > > Berni > G0IDA > > n4lq wrote: > > Berni > > This sounds like harmonic distortion, not ringing. It's the same thing > > people are seeing on their PSK waterfalls and calling it a "ghost". > > There's not much you can do about it. > > > > Steve Ellington > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - Original Message - From: "Berni G0IDA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:42 AM > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB > > > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> > >> I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-) > >> > >> I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and > >> always), perhaps caused by the DSP. > >> When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although > >> less pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good. > >> But when I tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets > >> higher in frequency I can hear what I would call ringing and it is > >> very slight but enough for it to be anoying. > >> > >> This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of > >> keys like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't > >> worked out if it is indeed a combination of keys or not. > >> > >> I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones > >> (Heil) were rattling but it is the same. > >> > >> This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is > >> randomly there or not. > >> > >> Perhaps there are settings which optimize this? > >> I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB > >> and 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these. > >> > >> Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"? > >> > >> 73's > >> Berni > >> G0IDA > >> K3 #1474 > >> > >> -- > >> ___ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus > >> Database: 270.6.12/1640 - Release Date: 8/28/2008 6:58 PM > >> > >> > >> > > -- Don‘t complain. Nobody will understand. Or care. And certainly don‘t try to fix the situation yourself. It‘s dangerous. Leave it to a highly untrained, unqualified, expendable professional. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
Surely that means every K3 has this but there seems to be no complaints about it on CW or SSB? I'm listening now to the YO contest and playing with settings and it is quite marked ringing :-( Is there a way of reducing this? Cheers, Berni G0IDA n4lq wrote: Berni This sounds like harmonic distortion, not ringing. It's the same thing people are seeing on their PSK waterfalls and calling it a "ghost". There's not much you can do about it. Steve Ellington [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Berni G0IDA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:42 AM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB Hi everyone, I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-) I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and always), perhaps caused by the DSP. When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although less pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good. But when I tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets higher in frequency I can hear what I would call ringing and it is very slight but enough for it to be anoying. This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of keys like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't worked out if it is indeed a combination of keys or not. I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones (Heil) were rattling but it is the same. This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is randomly there or not. Perhaps there are settings which optimize this? I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB and 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these. Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"? 73's Berni G0IDA K3 #1474 -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.12/1640 - Release Date: 8/28/2008 6:58 PM -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
Berni This sounds like harmonic distortion, not ringing. It's the same thing people are seeing on their PSK waterfalls and calling it a "ghost". There's not much you can do about it. Steve Ellington [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Berni G0IDA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:42 AM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB Hi everyone, I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-) I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and always), perhaps caused by the DSP. When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although less pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good. But when I tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets higher in frequency I can hear what I would call ringing and it is very slight but enough for it to be anoying. This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of keys like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't worked out if it is indeed a combination of keys or not. I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones (Heil) were rattling but it is the same. This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is randomly there or not. Perhaps there are settings which optimize this? I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB and 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these. Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"? 73's Berni G0IDA K3 #1474 -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.12/1640 - Release Date: 8/28/2008 6:58 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
Berni G0IDA wrote: > > Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"? > > 73's > Berni > G0IDA > K3 #1474 > > Yes but only in my good ear (no joke!) Look at the K3 audio posts a week or so ago. Cheers, Paul. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3---DSP-ringing-on-CW---SSB-tp793827p793873.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
Hi everyone, I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-) I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and always), perhaps caused by the DSP. When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although less pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good. But when I tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets higher in frequency I can hear what I would call ringing and it is very slight but enough for it to be anoying. This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of keys like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't worked out if it is indeed a combination of keys or not. I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones (Heil) were rattling but it is the same. This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is randomly there or not. Perhaps there are settings which optimize this? I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB and 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these. Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"? 73's Berni G0IDA K3 #1474 -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
