[Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker
I have a Clear Speech that is about 5 years old and a one year old product called a BHI Hear It Now (Distributed by GAP Antenna). I have had my K3 for two months now and feel like I know how to use the NR. I have added the above two products in the audio chain and compared everything. The BHI device is more effective than the Clear Speech and K3 NR on all levels of interference and distortion. The NR on the K3 seems to be very suppressive of the overall signal compared to the other two products 73 Paul NN5G Somebody recently was asking if anyone has compared K3 NR with external NR systems. I just did, again. With my old analog rig, I used a Clear Speech speaker (it has built-in digital NR). It is VERY effective at reducing any sound that is steady for more than about 1/2 second, like stable QRN, and even pretty good with less stable QRN. It introduces very little distortion to the signal. Really an excellent product. It has since evolved into another company's product, but I'm not sure which one. When I got the K3, I tried the Clear Speech and found it redundant with the NR in the K3, so I retired it and went stereo. Then, NR seemed to improve considerably somewhere around FW 1.88. I thought I'd never use the Clear Speech again with the K3. Changes again ocurred in the NR with subsequent FW versions. I'm not so happy with it. Even on low settings, it seems overly agressive. There is no setting, even 1-1, that does not unpleasantly distort the audio and make the volume unstable. So I dusted off the Clear Speech guess what? It now works better for reducing steady QRN than the K3. By "better", I mean I it pleases me enough to want to use it. I have nearly given up on using the NR after upgrades of the past 2 months or so. I think it got better, then worse. All it needs to do on low settings is cancel out any sound that's steady. That was done nicely with a $120 product in the 90's. What's up, Elecraft? Windy KM5Q Santa Fe, NM K3 #764 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker
Maybe what we need here is a tutorial on the K3 Noise Reduction. I am very new at this as I have only had my K3 for a few hours online and there are a lot of settings for the noise reduction and noise blanker. I, at least, am confused as to a starting point and what might work best on what types of noise. Is there a tutorial or explanation online/available? 73, Jim - Original Message - From: "Dave Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "elecraft" Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker > > Somebody recently was asking if anyone has compared K3 NR with external NR > > systems. I just did, again. > > > > With my old analog rig, I used a Clear Speech speaker (it has built-in > > digital NR). It is VERY effective at reducing any sound that is steady for > > more than about 1/2 second, like stable QRN, and even pretty good with less > > stable QRN. It introduces very little distortion to the signal. Really an > > excellent product. It has since evolved into another company's product, but > > I'm not sure which one. > > > > When I got the K3, I tried the Clear Speech and found it redundant with the > > NR in the K3, so I retired it and went stereo. > > > > Then, NR seemed to improve considerably somewhere around FW 1.88. I thought > > I'd never use the Clear Speech again with the K3. > > > > Changes again ocurred in the NR with subsequent FW versions. I'm not so > > happy with it. Even on low settings, it seems overly agressive. There is no > > setting, even 1-1, that does not unpleasantly distort the audio and make the > > volume unstable. > > > > So I dusted off the Clear Speech guess what? It now works better for > > reducing steady QRN than the K3. By "better", I mean I it pleases me enough > > to want to use it. I have nearly given up on using the NR after upgrades of > > the past 2 months or so. I think it got better, then worse. > > > > All it needs to do on low settings is cancel out any sound that's steady. > > That was done nicely with a $120 product in the 90's. What's up, Elecraft? > > > > Windy KM5Q > > Santa Fe, NM > > K3 #764 > > > > > I was the one asking for a comparison, and I received two replies, > each one saying that the external speaker (two different brands) they > were using was an improvement over the K3's noise reduction. I > ordered one, and sure enough, it's better. It seems that any NR > system is far from perfect however. But now my external NR gives me > some relief from the constant grind I have. I had quit using the K3's > NR not only because it wasn't helping on SSB, but also because if I > had been using it, the AF gain had to be set so high that the next > time I powered up the radio I was blasted out of my chair because it > powers up with NR off, even if it was on before. So I'll use the > outboard NR until the K3's NR becomes satisfactory for me. If it ever > does, I'll offer my NR speaker to some unfortunate OM with a lesser > radio. > > Dave W5DHM > Goshen, Indiana > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Martin Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 5:55 AM To: elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker > Somebody recently was asking if anyone has compared K3 NR with external NR > systems. I just did, again. > Windy, Dave, The search for the best DSP NR system is at least as subjective as most of the other aspects of rig comparisons. I have used many units from different manufacturers over the years, and am still looking for the "perfect" one. I used the JPS NIR-10 through several FW upgrades, two different versions of the MFJ (too lazy to look up the model), the third production run of the Clear Speech, the same after Heil took over, GAP and Timewave products, and the internal wizardry from ICOM, Yaesu, Kenwood, Flex and Elecraft. One thing is apparent to me . . . no single process is equally effective with all modes and operating conditions. One algorithm may be clearly superior today on 20 CW, but a few hours later, can't hold a candle to another process on 75 M phone. Most importantly, it is the "eyes (ears) of the beholder" which will determine the usefulness of any product. For example, my first Clear Speech outboard box to my ears was so horrible I couldn't stand to listen to it. The digital artifacts were louder than the signal! Yet I sold that box to a local ham who did extensive listening tests before he forked over the cash. He never once heard any of the Luke Skywalker effects that drove me batty! As a nearly exclusive CW operator, I have found -- or should I say, according to my ears -- one of the very best DSP NR systems was in my old FT-920. That was, and still is the standard I use to compare other NR systems. With my current radios -- K3 and Flex-5000A -- and for my operating preferences, I find the NR to be quite useful. Over-all I give the nod to the K3. I know many have said they can't stand it, but I use it nearly 100% of the time. On 160 M, from my tiny city lot, with very high EMI levels, and only a rotating flag for RX, the K3 NR had made the difference between QSO and no QSO many, many times. This is not meant to be a put-down, just a different perspective on the K3 NR's usefulness. For me, it's a life saver! :) 73, Jim, WS6X BTW: Dave, I lived in the Goshen area for 15 years. I suspect we may have a number of common, "old geezer" acquaintances! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker
When I got my K3 in May, I loved the NR. Even if it didn't help with weak signals on SSB, it certainly made listening more pleasant. With recent firmware, however, I have to agree that NR is a bummer. It always makes signals less pleasant to listen to on SSB regardless of setting. Any way to restore the old performance? Dick KA1SA #911 > > I was the one asking for a comparison, and I received two replies, each one saying that the external speaker (two different brands) they were using was an improvement over the K3's noise reduction. I ordered one, and sure enough, it's better. It seems that any NR system is far from perfect however. But now my external NR gives me some relief from the constant grind I have. I had quit using the K3's NR not only because it wasn't helping on SSB, but also because if I had been using it, the AF gain had to be set so high that the next time I powered up the radio I was blasted out of my chair because it powers up with NR off, even if it was on before. So I'll use the outboard NR until the K3's NR becomes satisfactory for me. If it ever does, I'll offer my NR speaker to some unfortunate OM with a lesser radio. Dave W5DHM Goshen, Indiana ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker
> Somebody recently was asking if anyone has compared K3 NR with external NR > systems. I just did, again. > > With my old analog rig, I used a Clear Speech speaker (it has built-in > digital NR). It is VERY effective at reducing any sound that is steady for > more than about 1/2 second, like stable QRN, and even pretty good with less > stable QRN. It introduces very little distortion to the signal. Really an > excellent product. It has since evolved into another company's product, but > I'm not sure which one. > > When I got the K3, I tried the Clear Speech and found it redundant with the > NR in the K3, so I retired it and went stereo. > > Then, NR seemed to improve considerably somewhere around FW 1.88. I thought > I'd never use the Clear Speech again with the K3. > > Changes again ocurred in the NR with subsequent FW versions. I'm not so > happy with it. Even on low settings, it seems overly agressive. There is no > setting, even 1-1, that does not unpleasantly distort the audio and make the > volume unstable. > > So I dusted off the Clear Speech guess what? It now works better for > reducing steady QRN than the K3. By "better", I mean I it pleases me enough > to want to use it. I have nearly given up on using the NR after upgrades of > the past 2 months or so. I think it got better, then worse. > > All it needs to do on low settings is cancel out any sound that's steady. > That was done nicely with a $120 product in the 90's. What's up, Elecraft? > > Windy KM5Q > Santa Fe, NM > K3 #764 > > I was the one asking for a comparison, and I received two replies, each one saying that the external speaker (two different brands) they were using was an improvement over the K3's noise reduction. I ordered one, and sure enough, it's better. It seems that any NR system is far from perfect however. But now my external NR gives me some relief from the constant grind I have. I had quit using the K3's NR not only because it wasn't helping on SSB, but also because if I had been using it, the AF gain had to be set so high that the next time I powered up the radio I was blasted out of my chair because it powers up with NR off, even if it was on before. So I'll use the outboard NR until the K3's NR becomes satisfactory for me. If it ever does, I'll offer my NR speaker to some unfortunate OM with a lesser radio. Dave W5DHM Goshen, Indiana ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 noise reduction vs. Clear Speech speaker
Somebody recently was asking if anyone has compared K3 NR with external NR systems. I just did, again. With my old analog rig, I used a Clear Speech speaker (it has built-in digital NR). It is VERY effective at reducing any sound that is steady for more than about 1/2 second, like stable QRN, and even pretty good with less stable QRN. It introduces very little distortion to the signal. Really an excellent product. It has since evolved into another company's product, but I'm not sure which one. When I got the K3, I tried the Clear Speech and found it redundant with the NR in the K3, so I retired it and went stereo. Then, NR seemed to improve considerably somewhere around FW 1.88. I thought I'd never use the Clear Speech again with the K3. Changes again ocurred in the NR with subsequent FW versions. I'm not so happy with it. Even on low settings, it seems overly agressive. There is no setting, even 1-1, that does not unpleasantly distort the audio and make the volume unstable. So I dusted off the Clear Speech guess what? It now works better for reducing steady QRN than the K3. By "better", I mean I it pleases me enough to want to use it. I have nearly given up on using the NR after upgrades of the past 2 months or so. I think it got better, then worse. All it needs to do on low settings is cancel out any sound that's steady. That was done nicely with a $120 product in the 90's. What's up, Elecraft? Windy KM5Q Santa Fe, NM K3 #764 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
